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View Full Version : Your Grade of Carver



J .
04-25-2009, 08:41 PM
He's gone, maybe we can have a final grade of him and move on.

:noidea:

kitchener-TFC
04-25-2009, 08:57 PM
Result wise, I'd give him a C+/B-. Personality wise, I'd give the guy an A. I liked John Carver as our coach.

dag
04-25-2009, 08:59 PM
^ I agree he's about a C+/B- as TFC manager. I'm a believer in using your substitutions, and couldn't stand Carver's sit on his hands approach. I admit, though, there should be a limit to what we should have expected.

J .
04-25-2009, 09:00 PM
Originally I thought maybe a B but when I think about it I am going to say that I voted C, but the more I thought about it the more disappointed I became. But there was a shortage of some talent.

On many nights I found myself wondering what exactly we were doing. Perhaps it was the players. The biggest problem is that TFC never has had a solution on the wings aside from Wynne and Brennan.Ricketts and Robert were not solutions. So I give him the weakness in talent. Many nights I found that our tactics would run counter to what was working and too often got pressured into giving up crucial points.

The situation leaves me with a feeling of disappointment. I think Carver was tactically outmatched and unable to bring in the players he wanted for his particular style hindered him.

Super
04-25-2009, 09:01 PM
Results are all the counts in this business, and Carver knows this as well. I'll give him a C. I'll miss his personality, though, and I wish him well. I hope he'll find lots of success in England.

felipe
04-25-2009, 09:36 PM
He was only 4 games under .500 with a largely substandard and undermanned squad...I think he did pretty good. Not only that, but he introduced a professional attitude and many top class coaching/fitness talents to the club.

TFCmatty
04-25-2009, 09:53 PM
I'd give him a C.........pretty much average
although i liked him personality wise (ie dealing with media, passion for the team, willingness to win)....he never really came through with results.

GOOMF
04-25-2009, 10:09 PM
yaaaah

s2cazz
04-25-2009, 10:13 PM
I give the man an A
Although its well known that I am a fan of Carver... He definately produced with what he had to work with. The begining of this season ecluded we had a team that dominated possesion, played well together, they just couldn't finish... that I feel was due to a lack of a DP which we can not blame Carver for.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-25-2009, 11:00 PM
Result wise, I'd give him a C+/B-. Personality wise, I'd give the guy an A. I liked John Carver as our coach.

I agree 100% - for some reason TFC always seems to have more personality than talent.

Phil
04-25-2009, 11:06 PM
I gave the guy a B on his job. He came into a new league with someone elses agenda for training and team, did his best and it was a challenge.

I felt the new season really gave him a chance to show the team what kind of guy he really is. Seeing him and his staff in pre-season at the Charleston tourney really made me think highly of him. I think if we made the playoffs with him at the helm he may have done some excellent work.

There were some tactical questions and I was curious to see how he was going to deal with them. Time to move on now.

Rocco
04-25-2009, 11:21 PM
I gave the guy a B on his job. He came into a new league with someone elses agenda for training and team, did his best and it was a challenge.

There were some tactical questions and I was curious to see how he was going to deal with them. Time to move on now.

I feel he deserves a C+, B-.... even though he did come into a new league and followed someone elses agenda, he didn't fully adapt. He was too slow to adjust the game. His subs were always late and I felt like as if he was waiting for someone to tell him what to do. He makes a great assistant coach.

Havind said that, I say A+++ on passion.

SanStarko
04-25-2009, 11:22 PM
I voted D, but would say he was a D+ or C-. The results and performances weren't there. He brought a lot of passion to the job but passion alone won't win you games.

For all the comments about the players not being good enough, or him not having a DP, etc. A good manager/head coach will look at the players he has and pick a formation and style that suits the players he has available and allows him to get the most from them. For me Carver never seemed to be able to do that.

Pachuco
04-25-2009, 11:44 PM
I gave him a D, but I was being generous. After all, you have to allow him some time to get used to the team and the league itself. Only reason he doesn't get an F from me. Oh, and F should be an option.

Shakes McQueen
04-26-2009, 12:08 AM
I gave him a B. He gets an A+ for the public/media relations side of the job - generally always said the right things, genuinely cared about the club and colours, and had bags of passion (sometimes to a fault).

For results, I give him a straight C. In his first season with MLS, and with a substandard roster, he managed to get off to a fantastic start and finish, and just couldn't keep it together in the summer, when international call-ups and lethargic play ate our team alive. It was a season of learning for him though, and only the second year for the club, so I vocally gave him a mulligan until he had some more pieces of the puzzle to work with.

This season, I don't think he had enough time for me to give him a reasonable and honest grade. We are 2-2-2, and mid-table in the East, which is about as average as it gets. We might have gotten better, and we might have gotten worse. All things considered, I think a C is fair, because you can't give him a better grade based on results you think he might have gotten in the future.

- Scott

Yohan
04-26-2009, 05:16 AM
He was only 4 games under .500 with a largely substandard and undermanned squad...I think he did pretty good. Not only that, but he introduced a professional attitude and many top class coaching/fitness talents to the club.



For results, I give him a straight C. In his first season with MLS, and with a substandard roster, he managed to get off to a fantastic start and finish, and just couldn't keep it together in the summer, when international call-ups and lethargic play ate our team alive. It was a season of learning for him though, and only the second year for the club, so I vocally gave him a mulligan until he had some more pieces of the puzzle to work with.

This season, I don't think he had enough time for me to give him a reasonable and honest grade. We are 2-2-2, and mid-table in the East, which is about as average as it gets. We might have gotten better, and we might have gotten worse. All things considered, I think a C is fair, because you can't give him a better grade based on results you think he might have gotten in the future.

pretty much my opinion. Carver laid a good foundation for other managers to work with in the club, and hopefully it'll lead to future success of TFC

Inswingingwingman
04-26-2009, 07:05 AM
I wouldn't want to try and fill his boots. I bet there are 10 reasons for leaving at least, all blend into being unhappy.

I thought him a great and candid guy.

Bloor West FC
04-26-2009, 07:37 AM
Gave him a C could have been a B. He could have done better if we did not have such a high turnover rate

Chevy
04-26-2009, 08:05 AM
A+ Guy, C+ Coach.

koryo
04-26-2009, 08:21 AM
I agree with the C+ / B- for coaching, A+ for character sentiments on this thread.

Waggy
04-26-2009, 08:21 AM
Remember, the man could only work with what he was given. And a lot of times last year he wasn't given much. I give him a solid B. Great off the field coach, good on field coach. I look forward to following his success in a more traditional league (Be it Championship or EPL). The man was my favorite Toronto coach of my lifetime (85 to now), bar none. With appologies to Pinball

koryo
04-26-2009, 08:25 AM
Remember, the man could only work with what he was given. And a lot of times last year he wasn't given much. I give him a solid B. Great off the field coach, good on field coach. I look forward to following his success in a more traditional league (Be it Championship or EPL). The man was my favorite Toronto coach of my lifetime (85 to now), bar none. With appologies to Pinball

I do remember that. But I also remember our route 1 play at times this year when DeRo was on the field. Made no sense to me whatsoever.

Waggy
04-26-2009, 08:43 AM
I agree that didn't make a lot of sense. But it seemed like that wasn't his desired method of play, but rather a kind of trap the players would fall into. Which I'd agree falls on the coach, but it'd only been a few games. I'm looking more at his whole tenure (including the possible over achieving in Carolina and the solid start of the season) then his last 3 games. I'd still have faith that he'd be able to correct that reasonably quick. Besides, Dero's off the pitch for a few weeks anyways. When he comes back, I'm sure the team won't be NEARLY as mentally dependant on the guy. Which'll make everyone better

koryo
04-26-2009, 08:48 AM
Besides, Dero's off the pitch for a few weeks anyways. When he comes back, I'm sure the team won't be NEARLY as mentally dependant on the guy. Which'll make everyone better

Spot on. After last Sunday's game, our little group watching in the east end agreed that the team as a whole would be better because they can't rely on him to play for them.

CretanBull
04-26-2009, 09:06 AM
I think De Ro played wide in a few games not because Carver thought that he played best there, but because it put some of our other players in more comfortable roles. I think he just had more faith in De Ro adapting than other players.

Personally, I'd like to see our best players play in the comfort positions and try to use our top end talent to control the game, that way we'd be less worried if a winger (for example) is really a natural striker.

CoachGT
04-26-2009, 09:27 AM
Gave him a B. He was a good development coach, but needed more work on the broader team tactical situation, something that would have come over time but wasn't there just year. Did he get the best of his players? In some cases yes, but it will be easier to tell as time passes. As far as his substitution record, it is difficult to sub players in when you haven't got the same quality on the bench as on the field.

His practices in Charleston focused on high speed possession, something that can be seen in the games, although not executed at 100%. Don't know if that was him or Cummins, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt - he'd have to approve it.

His passion set the standard, and despite what others might think, I believe he carried himself very professionally, both with the players and with the media.

OneLoveOneEric
04-26-2009, 10:08 AM
C based on results.
Nothing else matters.

Razor
04-26-2009, 10:38 AM
A+ for his passion
C as a coach

I will miss his passion for the club and the fans but not coaching abilities.

Best of luck in the future.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-26-2009, 11:21 AM
Love him as a guy but as of recent his formations/strategy wasnt up to par, i do think he could have done more if he had decided to stick around. Definitely help TFC get better from our first year. I gave him a C.

Bobo
04-26-2009, 11:50 AM
Love him as a guy but as of recent his formations/strategy wasnt up to par, i do think he could have done more if he had decided to stick around. Definitely help TFC get better from our first year. I gave him a C.

Agreed. I really liked that incompetent tactician.



But I love my team.

bhoybobby
04-26-2009, 12:10 PM
More useful poll would be "rate Mo & the Assman's performance"

Then again we wouldn't want to shine a light on that pile of dung

TFC RealDeal RPB
04-26-2009, 12:18 PM
I gave him a D. JC Formations were shite for the player's he had.

Beach_Red
04-26-2009, 12:28 PM
More useful poll would be "rate Mo & the Assman's performance"

Then again we wouldn't want to shine a light on that pile of dung

Since Carver arrived everything we heard from everyone (including Carver) was that he had huge input on everything about the team, so how can you seperate his performance from the rest?

How come you don't blame Carver for Ricketts and Robert? How come Carver gets no blame for deciding which player who came in on trial got signed?

ricciboy
04-26-2009, 12:33 PM
i think B

Terry
04-26-2009, 12:51 PM
Realistically, I'd have to say a B or a C. But his personality and passion was just so lovable, and you'd have to give him an A on that. So I went in the middle and picked B.

Ontario Arab
04-26-2009, 01:01 PM
Good coach for the players...very poor tactician....which equals an average manager.

ilikemusic
04-26-2009, 01:03 PM
I think it is obvious people grew too attached to his personality and lost sight of what actually counts. Results.

I give him a D.

He improved on season one. A deaf, blind, mute could have improved on year one.

king dave
04-26-2009, 01:24 PM
Just average given the results to date.
Solid 'C' IMO.
KD.

Cashcleaner
04-26-2009, 01:31 PM
C+

I think if he had more overall control of the team we'd be seeing better results. Just my opinion, but in the Mo/Carver relationship I think Carver was the better man to be in charge.

Beach_Red
04-26-2009, 02:05 PM
C+

I think if he had more overall control of the team we'd be seeing better results. Just my opinion, but in the Mo/Carver relationship I think Carver was the better man to be in charge.

How much more control could he have had?

From what was made public it seems they had a good division of roles - Carver identified the players he wanted and Mo tried to sign them under the wonky MLS restrictions which Carver knew nothing about. Then Carver made the line-ups and ran the team his way.

If it was something else in private, that's different, but from the moment he arrived Carver ran the show. He handled all the player trials and chose which ones should be offered contracts - sometimes the team may not have been able to come to agreements with the agents, but that happens everywhere.

I keep coming back to the problem with this team is that the best players are still the ones from season one - pre-Carver. Robinson is line to be player of the year again.

There's really no evidence to suggest Carver would have been better in charge. He would have just ranted about MLS roster restrictions the way he ranted about the refs, stuff every other team deals with.

trane
04-26-2009, 02:06 PM
Love him as a guy but as of recent his formations/strategy wasnt up to par, i do think he could have done more if he had decided to stick around. Definitely help TFC get better from our first year. I gave him a C.

I agree with this, there was a huge initial imporvemnt, over maybe ten games, but then the team stagnated. Maybe if he stayed he could have done better, I certiainly was lossing hope untill Wensdays game, but we shall never know.

Cashcleaner
04-26-2009, 02:13 PM
How much more control could he have had?

From what was made public it seems they had a good division of roles - Carver identified the players he wanted and Mo tried to sign them under the wonky MLS restrictions which Carver knew nothing about. Then Carver made the line-ups and ran the team his way.

If it was something else in private, that's different, but from the moment he arrived Carver ran the show. He handled all the player trials and chose which ones should be offered contracts - sometimes the team may not have been able to come to agreements with the agents, but that happens everywhere.

I keep coming back to the problem with this team is that the best players are still the ones from season one - pre-Carver. Robinson is line to be player of the year again.

There's really no evidence to suggest Carver would have been better in charge. He would have just ranted about MLS roster restrictions the way he ranted about the refs, stuff every other team deals with.

Just a gut feeling I have, but I really think Mo was constantly looking over Carver's shoulders. I agree that Carver was likely instrumental in securing our more pivotal transactions, but bottom line is that I feel he could have done a better job without Mo as GM.

Beach_Red
04-26-2009, 02:27 PM
Just a gut feeling I have, but I really think Mo was constantly looking over Carver's shoulders. I agree that Carver was likely instrumental in securing our more pivotal transactions, but bottom line is that I feel he could have done a better job without Mo as GM.


The biggest problem with the team is that we haven't had any pivotal transactions since the first season - Robinson, Dichio, Brennan are still the heart of the team (and Guevara, but Carver had nothing to do with that). The next brightest lights are the draft picks.

I really liked Carver when he first signed but there's no indication he had anyone looking over his shoulder. He brought in his own assistant, his own fitness guy. Carver supporters are giving him a free walk on Robert quitting and on Ricketts who was really a Carver guy.

Your gut feeling may be 100% right, but the evidence goes the other way.

TFCAlbertaGirl
04-26-2009, 03:11 PM
I loved the guy, wore his heart on his sleeve. Carver said so many things that I was feeling myself. "Carver wondered aloud how the player had ever scored 99 goals in MLS", comes to mind. I loved when he shushed the Columbus fans. However, I don't know how to grade a coach except by results on the pitch. The results have been a roller coaster of inconsistancy. One game of magic followed by one or two games of utter dissapointment. I didn't understand his lineups most days and figured he knew better than me. I often got frustrated with his decisions, including his late substitutions. I loved his passion but I'm not sure of his tactics. But I am only a fan and really have no idea what he was trying to do behind the scenes. I gave him a c (passing) based on results, but Carver had my support from the beginning to the end. I am really going to miss his uncensored comments and passion for this team.

profit89
04-26-2009, 03:29 PM
B, loved his passion.

Cashcleaner
04-26-2009, 07:16 PM
The biggest problem with the team is that we haven't had any pivotal transactions since the first season - Robinson, Dichio, Brennan are still the heart of the team (and Guevara, but Carver had nothing to do with that). The next brightest lights are the draft picks.

I really liked Carver when he first signed but there's no indication he had anyone looking over his shoulder. He brought in his own assistant, his own fitness guy. Carver supporters are giving him a free walk on Robert quitting and on Ricketts who was really a Carver guy.

Your gut feeling may be 100% right, but the evidence goes the other way.

You wouldn't call Serioux or DeRosario pivotal?

Beach_Red
04-26-2009, 07:25 PM
You wouldn't call Serioux or DeRosario pivotal?


I hope they will be. We know DeRo was a target from day one so he preceeds Carver and Mo had already aquired Serieux once.

It's all speculation, of course, we'll never really know. To be honest, I'd never heard of either Mo Johnston or John Carver before they came to TFC (this is the first soccer team I've ever followed) so my gut feelings have no history.

Right now the roster looks pretty good but I'd still like to see a DP brought in.

InTheCrowd
04-26-2009, 08:17 PM
Carver put a lot of effort and passion into his work. He praised fans and loved our city. He had a great attitude, however unfortunately he didn't get us the results we wanted. And in the end that's what it comes down to. I give him a C.

Cashcleaner
04-26-2009, 08:36 PM
I hope they will be. We know DeRo was a target from day one so he preceeds Carver and Mo had already aquired Serieux once.

It's all speculation, of course, we'll never really know. To be honest, I'd never heard of either Mo Johnston or John Carver before they came to TFC (this is the first soccer team I've ever followed) so my gut feelings have no history.

Right now the roster looks pretty good but I'd still like to see a DP brought in.

Hmmm, yeah, that's a good point about DeRo.

But yeah, I really think we still need a solid DP-level striker or midfielder who can set-up or execute aggressive and technical offensive plays.

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-26-2009, 10:00 PM
A...he was a good manager and will find employment else where...Hes deserves better then what MLS can deliver right now.....Good luck JC you were a spot of fresh air this league needed..too bad they dont realize it...

Fort York Redcoat
05-01-2009, 07:06 AM
Tough one for me but yeah if you look at what an A guy he was but factor our results I think a C is fair.

Section 110
05-01-2009, 07:27 AM
As a man, he's an A, but as coach he gets a C.

Admittedly, he has not always been working with grade "A" talent, but this season didn't start out well, and it's hard to argue that they shouldn't have won the two Dallas games, and shown better in Colombus.

Now, let's gets behind Cummins - he's 2-0 !!!!

Oldtimer
05-01-2009, 07:45 AM
Mo had traded Serioux away - twice. I'm sure that Serioux is only here because of Carver,

GabrielHurl
05-01-2009, 10:23 AM
Where's the F option?

Beach_Red
05-01-2009, 10:35 AM
Mo had traded Serioux away - twice. I'm sure that Serioux is only here because of Carver,

Do you think he didn't want to play in his home town because of business that went on in the past? Come on, give Serioux more credit that that, he's a grown up, he knows how things work.

Or do you think Mo didn't want him back? That's actually interesting because if you look at our player aquisitions the heart of this team is still guys Mo got before Carver came along (Dichio, Robinson, Guevara, Brennan) and guys Mo drafted (Frei, Cronin, the money from Edu). Mo had been working on aquiring DeRo for two years.

Who did we get when Carver had significant input - Robert and Ricketts.

egoodwin
05-01-2009, 10:38 AM
Would have been C-, but it is a Q for QUITTER

Carter
05-01-2009, 11:00 AM
i only have one thing to say...

:deadhorse:

now sssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Oldtimer
05-01-2009, 11:56 AM
Only 17% really think Carver was horrible. 43% think really good.

What a contrast to the posts on this board. You would have thought the RPB were 90% against JC.

FluSH
05-01-2009, 12:01 PM
I would have said D+

Voted D

LucaGol
05-01-2009, 12:04 PM
Grade E?

Ohhh k?...

... and what percent out of 100 would that correspond to exactly?

I guess it's fitting to have an imaginary grade in the poll ... seems to fit in with some the assessments based on what I only can assume are imaginary abilities.

Cambridge_Red
05-01-2009, 01:25 PM
Where's the F option?

Exactly :D

rocker
05-01-2009, 01:32 PM
Where's the F option?

That's reserved for Robert Warzycha (0 wins), who has taken hold of a championship team and put it in the basement.

Bombonera
05-01-2009, 01:50 PM
Anyhing more generous than a "D" si ludicrous... Unless one feels strongly that MO did not provide him with the right backing. and to my mind, a DP would have failed as well under his 4 - 4 - 2.
Carver arrogantly put his ego first, and the bad decisions flowed from there.

Toronto_Bhoy
05-01-2009, 08:09 PM
Carver has 11 wins in 36 games (.300 winning percentage) and 42% of the people on this board give him a B or better??? What would you give a guy at .500...an A+???

Speaks volumes of the "football intelligence" on this board!

Hey, Carver was a nice guy but at the end of the day he had a record that's only good in baseball. Not to mention he took his ball and went home.

C- at best or as the kids like to say...FAIL!


Fell well short of the mark...not unlike this guy...


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