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View Full Version : If we win, does Dero play?



Pachuco
04-24-2009, 09:51 AM
Hey guys,

I'm thinking back to how Carver managed things last year and his whole belief that if you win your shirt, you play again. So going by that, is it possible that Dero sits if we beat KC on Sunday? Let's let our imagination run wild and say we win 5-0 at home. Assuming Dero's healthy, do you sit him? does Carver sit him?

I know there's a possibility he sits because he's not 100%, but let's assume he's 100% after Sunday.

I think it's a tough decision for Carver. Possibly his most difficult decision as coach so far. He seems to truly believe in rewarding those that play well, but Dero on the bench when he's healthy?

I've given this some thought and I think I would start without him, but sub him in for the 2nd half no matter what the score is. This way you ease him in and you still reward those that won you 2 in a row.

This is obviously a hypothetical thread and I don't take responsibility if we lose :D

Ossington Mental Youth
04-24-2009, 09:53 AM
I do not see him not playing at all unless hes injured

spezz44
04-24-2009, 09:54 AM
i see what ur sayin for sure, but he is the face of the franchise, i cant see him sitting.

flatpicker
04-24-2009, 09:54 AM
perhaps if we keep winning, the team would be less likely to rush him back into the lineup.
I'm sure they wouldn't play him unless they thought he was ready to go, but another win might make them sit him one more game to be on the safe side.
But if he feels 100%... then he will be in the lineup no matter what.

CretanBull
04-24-2009, 09:57 AM
There's already too much cap-space sitting on the bench in the form of Ricketts, Sutton & (sometimes) Vitti. There's no way a healthy De Ro sits out any games this season.

drewski
04-24-2009, 10:00 AM
if we play well sunday, I think it would be best to keep DeRo out of he start XI and have him come off the bench if needed. Those hammy injuries can be a pain in the ass to recover 100% from and I'd like to see him get as much recovery time as possible so we don't lose him for longer

James Oliphant
04-24-2009, 10:01 AM
De Ro has done nothing to lose his starter's spot, as far as I'm concerned. He starts when he's 100% again...or less than 100% if we're playing on grass.

Carts
04-24-2009, 10:09 AM
Keep him sitting untill he is 100% healthy - that is the only concern right now...

This is a long, long, season - there is no need to rush him back...

Lets cross this bridge when we get to it...

Carts...

Yohan
04-24-2009, 10:11 AM
There's already too much cap-space sitting on the bench in the form of Ricketts, Sutton & (sometimes) Vitti. There's no way a healthy De Ro sits out any games this season.
i dont understand why sitting out some players with high wages is a big deal

you play the best 11 for the game, and if that means Ricketts or Sutton sits out so that someone who is playing better, but makes less money plays and the team wins, like, whatever

Pachuco
04-24-2009, 10:12 AM
De Ro has done nothing to lose his starter's spot, as far as I'm concerned. He starts when he's 100% again...or less than 100% if we're playing on grass.

I agree. But it's not about Dero losing his starting spot. It's more of other players earning the shirt while he was away. That's Carver's mentality, and he stuck with it last year although it back fired on him. He benched Guevara a week after he was back from international absence because the other players earned their shirt. I thought it was a terrible idea. This time could be a little different though. We are a much deeper team, and if we win with the same 4-3-3 lineup again I would find it tough to sit one of the forwards. Like I said, treat this as a friday fun thread because who knows if we'll win and who knows whether Dero will be 100% after this game.

Oldtimer
04-24-2009, 10:18 AM
I would play DeRo once he's healthy, bench Barrett. Otherwise keep the winning line-up.

Northern Soul
04-24-2009, 10:18 AM
If De Ro is 100%, he should play. Otherwise, let him sit.

Oldtimer
04-24-2009, 10:21 AM
I agree. But it's not about Dero losing his starting spot. It's more of other players earning the shirt while he was away. That's Carver's mentality, and he stuck with it last year although it back fired on him. He benched Guevara a week after he was back from international absence because the other players earned their shirt. I thought it was a terrible idea. This time could be a little different though. We are a much deeper team, and if we win with the same 4-3-3 lineup again I would find it tough to sit one of the forwards. Like I said, treat this as a friday fun thread because who knows if we'll win and who knows whether Dero will be 100% after this game.

I wan't the greatest idea, but remember that Carver was new to the league. In the EPL, benches are deep, and benching a few starters has little effect. In MLS, after your top 5-8 players there is a deep drop-off.

This year, hes learned and he's not holding strictly to the pattern. Besides how you did the last game, he looks at training, seeks the other coaches opinions, etc. So a good game doesn't guarantee that you're in next time.

sully
04-24-2009, 10:22 AM
DeRo would play if he's fit regardless of results..no question they are a better team with him in it.

CretanBull
04-24-2009, 10:22 AM
i dont understand why sitting out some players with high wages is a big deal

you play the best 11 for the game, and if that means Ricketts or Sutton sits out so that someone who is playing better, but makes less money plays and the team wins, like, whatever

I agree completely, but I'm willing to bet that management sees it differently. In a cap-based league, salary management is a very, very important factor in evaluating a GM's effectiveness. If there's $600,000 tied up on 3 bench players (Sutton, Ricketts and Vitti) and the cap is $2.3 million, that's over 1/4 of the cap that's not being well spent. A coach wants to win and is going to dress the best 11, and fans want to see good results but also pay to see stars play.

TorCanSoc
04-24-2009, 10:28 AM
I think in England Carver had the luxury of a talented bench to keep this strategy going. We do not.

Jack
04-24-2009, 10:49 AM
When fit, DeRo plays. End of story.

MFBODD
04-24-2009, 10:53 AM
Representing your country, or going down to injury isn't the same as displaying a string of poor play on the pitch. I didn't like the way Carver implemented his plan in the past and I doubt he'll do it again. DeRo hasn't played his way out of the role, so he doesn't sit. If we play the same as we did on Wednesday and DeRo is back I think he'd only add a positive element to the game.

drewski
04-24-2009, 10:58 AM
I think in England Carver had the luxury of a talented bench to keep this strategy going.

he did? I thought he coached Newcastle :lol:

tfcmanu
04-24-2009, 11:01 AM
Why even bring this up I'm pissed. DeRo is our best player give me a break make him sit only if he's injured. :mad:

Pachuco
04-24-2009, 11:03 AM
Why even bring this up I'm pissed. DeRo is our best player give me a break make him sit only if he's injured. :mad:

Why bring this up? because Carver did this to Guevara when he was our best player last year. So it's not impossible to think he would do it again. That's why I bring it up. Who are you pissed at? who is saying bench Dero? You obviously haven't read the thread.

H Bomb
04-24-2009, 11:06 AM
Dero has shown over time that he is a high quality player who can play with almost anyone (4 championships alone shows this). I've never heard him referred to as a bad attitude or anything like that, so the real is how good are we going to be when we play like Wednesday WITH Dero in the lineup!!!!

MUFC_Niagara
04-24-2009, 11:16 AM
Keep him sitting untill he is 100% healthy - that is the only concern right now...

This is a long, long, season - there is no need to rush him back...

Lets cross this bridge when we get to it...

Carts...

+1...especially aslong as we keeping playing well and winning....i think the team was relying on DeRo too much and looking for him to create all the time. Maybe they got caught up in the hype of DeRo coming home? Our movement was 100% times better against Chivas. Rest DeRo until he is 100% and in the end, this may be a blessing in disguise and it brings confidence to the rest of the guys on the team.

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-24-2009, 11:23 AM
If the team continues to win , sure let him sit hes no different then other players who have had to sit while the team wins...Its JC's call

with DeRo TFC is 1-2-2 winpct....333
with out Dero TFC is 1-0-0 win pct...1.000 :}

Jack
04-24-2009, 11:41 AM
If the team continues to win , sure let him sit hes no different then other players who have had to sit while the team wins...Its JC's call

with DeRo TFC is 1-2-2 winpct....333
with out Dero TFC is 1-0-0 win pct...1.000 :}
I can't disagree with you more.

Goodfellas FC
04-24-2009, 11:41 AM
If the team continues to win , sure let him sit hes no different then other players who have had to sit while the team wins...Its JC's call

with DeRo TFC is 1-2-2 winpct....333
with out Dero TFC is 1-0-0 win pct...1.000 :}

what about harmse :noidea:
with harmse tfc 1-2-2 winpct 333
with out harmse tfc is 1-0-0 winpct 1.000 AN NO GOALS AGAINST

Pachuco
04-24-2009, 12:16 PM
USector is claiming this thread is a "Call to sit Dero". I found it hilarious so I told them what I think. Oh well, probably my first and only post over there.

Big Bruva
04-24-2009, 12:24 PM
Like i said before DeRo will get special treatment to a certain extent coz of who he is.

He can play bad 3 games in a row and will start the 4th.

ExiledRed
04-24-2009, 12:25 PM
I'd just rotate DeRo and Guevara in the same position. DeRo might need to be eased in and Guevara's going to miss a lot of games anyway, and both will miss games due to slight injuries at least.
It's also not a bad thing to have talent like that on the bench.

ensco
04-24-2009, 03:22 PM
That would be a nice problem to have, as it affords the team the option him of sitting him for a game or two, as a precaution.

But when he's ready, he plays. Carver blew it with his "you keep the shirt" policy. You need your best 11 on the field, there's too big a drop off in quality in this league.

As noted above, Guevara will miss quite a few games and it will be academic for those games. If they're both available, I'd slide Robinson back to CB, move Guevara beside Cronin, and put DeRo in the AM slot.

I like Robbo, but too bad if he doesn't like it. This isn't high school.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
04-24-2009, 04:48 PM
sit dero!........................




thats funny!

giambac
04-24-2009, 05:25 PM
Hey guys,

I'm thinking back to how Carver managed things last year and his whole belief that if you win your shirt, you play again. So going by that, is it possible that Dero sits if we beat KC on Sunday? Let's let our imagination run wild and say we win 5-0 at home. Assuming Dero's healthy, do you sit him? does Carver sit him?

I know there's a possibility he sits because he's not 100%, but let's assume he's 100% after Sunday.

I think it's a tough decision for Carver. Possibly his most difficult decision as coach so far. He seems to truly believe in rewarding those that play well, but Dero on the bench when he's healthy?

I've given this some thought and I think I would start without him, but sub him in for the 2nd half no matter what the score is. This way you ease him in and you still reward those that won you 2 in a row.

This is obviously a hypothetical thread and I don't take responsibility if we lose :D

Interesting question.

First I don't believe DERO will be back for at least another 2-3 games due to his injury. However, if somehow he is a quick healer and is fit enough to play I don't think Carver will sit him out. The way Carver managed last year and his philosopy "if you win your shirt you play again" backfired on him. Carver would be commiting suicide if he tried this satunt with DERO. If he did and TFC were to lose a amtch with a healthy DERO on the bench it would be the final nail in his coffin.

I don't think Carver would even consider making such a controversial decision.

giambac
04-24-2009, 05:27 PM
When fit, DeRo plays. End of story.


AMEN

CretanBull
04-24-2009, 11:28 PM
Like i said before DeRo will get special treatment to a certain extent coz of who he is.

He can play bad 3 games in a row and will start the 4th.

True, and I don't have a problem with that. A 'bad game' for De Ro wouldn't be so much worse than a normal game for whoever replaced him. I'd like to see Carver play him in the same position week in and week out though, I think that will improve his game. IMO his talents are wasted as a winger, he needs to be in the middle of the pitch or playing as a withdrawn striker.

Cashcleaner
04-25-2009, 12:46 AM
From what I've heard DeRo's hamstring isn't serious, but it would still be doubtful he'll play on Sunday. Aside from that, I'm pretty sure that if he was 100%, Carver would play him. No doubt about it.

TFCinVANCOUVER
04-25-2009, 01:31 AM
I don't think he would hurt the team in any way!! so if he's ready he should play!!
maybe carver should just sub earlier!!

giambac
04-25-2009, 08:19 AM
I agree. But it's not about Dero losing his starting spot. It's more of other players earning the shirt while he was away. That's Carver's mentality, and he stuck with it last year although it back fired on him. He benched Guevara a week after he was back from international absence e the obecausther players earned their shirt. I thought it was a terrible idea. This time could be a little different though. We are a much deeper team, and if we win with the same 4-3-3 lineup again I would find it tough to sit one of the forwards. Like I said, treat this as a friday fun thread because who knows if we'll win and who knows whether Dero will be 100% after this game.

The more and more I think about this the more I'm starting to get concerned. Although I don't agree with sitting DERO if he is healthy, I think Carver would consider it if the team is winnig with out him. Like you said carver has a certain menatlity, a philosophy if you will in that he won't change what isn't broken and if the other players earned their shirt they will play.

Look at last week. Carver was not on the sidelines. The team won. Well guess what? I just heard Carver won't be on the sidelines again this Sunday. It loks like he is applying the same philosophy even to himself. So maybe he will do it to DERO if it comes to it!!!!!

U never know..... It will be very interesting to see what he does if it comes to it and if the team is winning.....