Ottawa stadium plan knocked down

[ThunderTundra]

http://senators.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=419624&page=NewsPage&service=page

Looks like a no go for the Lansdowne park idea, and also a no go for MLS in Ottawa. :noidea:

[billyfly]

Lansdowne park is the Jim Hunt lead group idea (CFL) not the MLS. That was in Kanata near the Senators arena.

[boban]

Well from what I read only the Kanata project is dead and in the next 60 days Lansdowne's fate will be known.

[billyfly]

I didn't click on the link but I could have sworn I read something in the Globe today that Ottawa council was making a decision on Landowne Park area today.

[Red CB Toronto]

http://senators.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=419624&page=NewsPage&service=page

Looks like a no go for the Lansdowne park idea, and also a no go for MLS in Ottawa. :noidea:

The Lansdowne project is the only one in play right now as they have been chosen by the city to have exclusive 60 day window to get a deal done.

Even though it was discussed I never saw a scenario where one group went ahead with their respective team if it meant playing in the others stadium.

[Lucky Strike]

Yup, heard about this today at 4:30 on the radio live as it was happening. For once, city council did not cock up the decision.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Eugene Melnyk bills himself as a big soccer fan. In my opinion, what Melnyk does next will determine whether he is a soccer fan or just an MLS fan.

For a fraction of the cost of an MLS expansion fee and a brand new SSS, Melnyk could very easily build a modest stadium and operate a team in USL-1. A second-tier club would be a lot less expensive to operate, and it would need to draw only a fraction of the fans in order to break even. Indeed, there would be much less pressure to sell out a USL-1 team in a medium-sized city than to sell out a top-flight equivalent.

If the ship has indeed sailed on Ottawa's MLS aspirations, I hope Melnyk doesn't give up on the sport of football. There is a lot of room for the growth of the professional game in this country, MLS or otherwise.

[Red CB Toronto]

The key issue here is that neither group had any intention of running a team in the others stadium, last week the Hunt group went as far to say they would give Melnyk the CFL rights if it meant getting a stadium built along with a redevelopment of Landsowne without a stadium.

[Redcoe15]

Eugene Melnyk bills himself as a big soccer fan. In my opinion, what Melnyk does next will determine whether he is a soccer fan or just an MLS fan.

For a fraction of the cost of an MLS expansion fee and a brand new SSS, Melnyk could very easily build a modest stadium and operate a team in USL-1. A second-tier club would be a lot less expensive to operate, and it would need to draw only a fraction of the fans in order to break even. Indeed, there would be much less pressure to sell out a USL-1 team in a medium-sized city than to sell out a top-flight equivalent.

If the ship has indeed sailed on Ottawa's MLS aspirations, I hope Melnyk doesn't give up on the sport of football. There is a lot of room for the growth of the professional game in this country, MLS or otherwise.
Agreed. Plus, an Ottawa USL-1 squad would be eligable to compete in the Canadian Champions League against TFC and the Vancouver Whitecaps from MLS and whichever league Montreal is playing in (MLS or USL-1). If pro soccer is to become successful in Ottawa it needs to be built from the ground up, not top down like Melnyk's grand scheme.

[vergilg]

So the CFL won out in the end in Ottawa...

What a huge mistake to re-build that stadium at Landsdowne park:

- horrible access to the site
- football fans in the city love the NFL, not the CFL
- can't have loud, outdoor concerts there without upsetting the surrounding community

My prediction: stadium gets rebuilt for CFL, franchise fails AGAIN in 2-3 years because of lack of fan support and winning team. Then, Melnyk steps in and we get a soccer team.

[Lucky Strike]

Agreed. Plus, an Ottawa USL-1 squad would be eligable to compete in the Canadian Champions League against TFC and the Vancouver Whitecaps from MLS and whichever league Montreal is playing in (MLS or USL-1). If pro soccer is to become successful in Ottawa it needs to be built from the ground up, not top down like Melnyk's grand scheme.

All true. But will they support a non-top-level team?

[C.Ronaldo]

Mississauga USL?


I can dream

[Mark in Ottawa]

Agreed. Plus, an Ottawa USL-1 squad would be eligable to compete in the Canadian Champions League against TFC and the Vancouver Whitecaps from MLS and whichever league Montreal is playing in (MLS or USL-1). If pro soccer is to become successful in Ottawa it needs to be built from the ground up, not top down like Melnyk's grand scheme.
^^ +1

[Redcoe15]

So the CFL won out in the end in Ottawa...

What a huge mistake to re-build that stadium at Landsdowne park:

- horrible access to the site
- football fans in the city love the NFL, not the CFL
- can't have loud, outdoor concerts there without upsetting the surrounding community

My prediction: stadium gets rebuilt for CFL, franchise fails AGAIN in 2-3 years because of lack of fan support and winning team. Then, Melnyk steps in and we get a soccer team.
Do you have your own money wagered on this?

[Oldtimer]

Bring on Montreal!

[Red CB Toronto]

An MLS team costs $40-35,000,000 while a USL-1 team from what I understand can be had for about $750,000, would it not make sense to test out the market for the second amount and if it goes well then make the move up, of all of the major cities in Canada Ottawa has the least amount of pro soccer history.

[boban]

An MLS team costs $40-35,000,000 while a USL-1 team from what I understand can be had for about $750,000, would it not make sense to test out the market for the second amount and if it goes well then make the move up, of all of the major cities in Canada Ottawa has the least amount of pro soccer history.
No. Toronto proves it.

[Red CB Toronto]

No. Toronto proves it.

What has Toronto proved, Toronto has a good dose of history when it came to the pro game and had a supporter base just inching for a team of their own, if the Lynx resembled a USL team like the Impact organization has been the support would have been there, the Lynx to many were just to bush league in appearance and their stadium in the west end proved that.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Eugene Melnyk bills himself as a big soccer fan. In my opinion, what Melnyk does next will determine whether he is a soccer fan or just an MLS fan.

For a fraction of the cost of an MLS expansion fee and a brand new SSS, Melnyk could very easily build a modest stadium and operate a team in USL-1. A second-tier club would be a lot less expensive to operate, and it would need to draw only a fraction of the fans in order to break even. Indeed, there would be much less pressure to sell out a USL-1 team in a medium-sized city than to sell out a top-flight equivalent.

If the ship has indeed sailed on Ottawa's MLS aspirations, I hope Melnyk doesn't give up on the sport of football. There is a lot of room for the growth of the professional game in this country, MLS or otherwise.


The USL is dying...it has no real future...Vancouver will be leaving...
and cant really see the league expanding...

[boban]

What has Toronto proved, Toronto has a good dose of history when it came to the pro game and had a supporter base just inching for a team of their own, if the Lynx resembled a USL team like the Impact organization has been the support would have been there, the Lynx to many were just to bush league in appearance and their stadium in the west end proved that.
You are making excuses. Cry me a river.
All I am saying you can't use USL attendance figures to justify MLS readiness for a given city.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

You are making excuses. Cry me a river.
All I am saying you can't use USL attendance figures to justify MLS readiness for a given city.

This is true. Toronto and Seattle drew flies in USL-1, and now both cities are the envy of MLS when it comes to gate figures. I don't want to generalise, but in large cities teams often have to be top-tier in order to get noticed.

As for Ottawa, it may be more suited for a USL-1 team. Ottawa is a small city by pro sports standards, and it doesn't have nearly as large a fan base to draw on as Toronto. That said, if a prospective ownership group of a USL-1 team could find its niche in Ottawa, then I don't see why such a team can't draw 5,000 fans per game.

[JamboAl]

I totally agree with the fact that average attendance of 5,000 would be excellent in USL-1. Problem is that Ottawa doesn't really have any stadium (current/proposed) that would meet that criteria, unless you convert the baseball stadium into soccer.

And Ottawa is more suited for USL-1 anyways based on the size of city.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I totally agree with the fact that average attendance of 5,000 would be excellent in USL-1. Problem is that Ottawa doesn't really have any stadium (current/proposed) that would meet that criteria, unless you convert the baseball stadium into soccer.

And Ottawa is more suited for USL-1 anyways based on the size of city.

Given the kind of money that Eugene Melnyk was willing to spend on an MLS team - $40 million for the franchise plus millions more for stadium construction - he could easily fund the construction of a USL-1-calibre stadium, pay the $750k franchise fee, and have millions to spare. Joey Saputo built a high-end USL-1 stadium for $15 million. The difference in scale between USL-1 and MLS makes the stadium issue a much smaller factor for the former league.

[Redcoe15]

The USL is dying...it has no real future...Vancouver will be leaving...
and cant really see the league expanding...
USL-1 just added New York City and Cleveland to the league. Hardly dying.

[JamboAl]

Given the kind of money that Eugene Melnyk was willing to spend on an MLS team - $40 million for the franchise plus millions more for stadium construction - he could easily fund the construction of a USL-1-calibre stadium, pay the $750k franchise fee, and have millions to spare. Joey Saputo built a high-end USL-1 stadium for $15 million. The difference in scale between USL-1 and MLS makes the stadium issue a much smaller factor for the former league.

I agree with your analysis but I think Melnyk's proposal is MLS or nothing. Since it looks like city council has more or less said no thanks, it looks like nothing.

Also I think the whole Shenkman/Millwall connection to Jeff Hunt although there, would likely not equate to a USL team at Landsdowne. I think it was tossed out there as a bit of a red herring. Unfortunate, cause I think USL-1 (or even USL-2) could work here.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I agree with your analysis but I think Melnyk's proposal is MLS or nothing. Since it looks like city council has more or less said no thanks, it looks like nothing.

Also I think the whole Shenkman/Millwall connection to Jeff Hunt although there, would likely not equate to a USL team at Landsdowne. I think it was tossed out there as a bit of a red herring. Unfortunate, cause I think USL-1 (or even USL-2) could work here.

I think you're right on this issue. It's unfortunate because Melnyk could go the USL route without requesting government funds, and he'd still save money over an MLS franchise.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

USL-1 just added New York City and Cleveland to the league. Hardly dying.

Yeah, USL-1 is in fine shape. Unlike MLS, teams come and go from the USL all the time. When one USL-1 team folds or gets promoted to MLS, another one always pops up elsewhere. There are a plethora of small-to-medium-sized cities in the U.S. and Canada, so there are tons of options for USL-1 expansion.

[C.Ronaldo]

USL in hamilton hands down and pronto


in the near future, areas like Quebec city, Mississauga, Halifax, Calgary.

difference b/w USL and minor leagues is that there is ALWAYS a chance of winning the big ticket.

as long as the canada cup allows the team to play, it will have interest

[Toronto Ruffrider]

USL in hamilton hands down and pronto


in the near future, areas like Quebec city, Mississauga, Halifax, Calgary.

difference b/w USL and minor leagues is that there is ALWAYS a chance of winning the big ticket.

as long as the canada cup allows the team to play, it will have interest

Absolutely. The thought of having six or so teams in the NCC is enough to make anyone salivate. That kind of competition would make for one hell of a tournament.

[Shway]

Absolutely. The thought of having six or so teams in the NCC is enough to make anyone salivate. That kind of competition would make for one hell of a tournament.

yea it would, aslong as TFC are winning it lol

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

USL-1 just added New York City and Cleveland to the league. Hardly dying.


Cleveland? Is the NY team going to be one that relocates to MLS in future to become a second NY area team? Bring back the Cosmos

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

USL-1 just added New York City and Cleveland to the league. Hardly dying.


Cleveland? Is the NY team going to be one that relocates to MLS in future to become a second NY area team? Bring back the Cosmos

[Redcoe15]

Cleveland? Is the NY team going to be one that relocates to MLS in future to become a second NY area team? Bring back the Cosmos
The NY team is going to be around for awhile because there's nobody going to step up and put up the cash for a new MLS approved stadium and team. And Cleveland is still a big city. This is where Ottawa will go, if they so choose. Deal with it.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

The NY team is going to be around for awhile because there's nobody going to step up and put up the cash for a new MLS approved stadium and team. And Cleveland is still a big city. This is where Ottawa will go, if they so choose. Deal with it.


You wont see Melnyk settle for the USL...Ottawa is a big league town and deserve MLS football...Leave the USL to minor League cities like Montreal

[JamboAl]

You wont see Melnyk settle for the USL...Ottawa is a big league town and deserve MLS football...Leave the USL to minor League cities like Montreal

I have lived in Ottawa since 1993 and grew up here. I love Ottawa and am happy to call it my hometown. But, Ottawa is NOT big league when it comes to sports. In fact, I'd say that this is a third-rate sports town with horrible fickle sports fans.

Montreal deserves MLS, Ottawa deserves USL-1 or 2.

[Redcoe15]

You wont see Melnyk settle for the USL...Ottawa is a big league town and deserve MLS football...Leave the USL to minor League cities like Montreal
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6366/retarded8oi5.jpg

[Mark in Ottawa]

I have lived in Ottawa since 1993 and grew up here. I love Ottawa and am happy to call it my hometown. But, Ottawa is NOT big league when it comes to sports. In fact, I'd say that this is a third-rate sports town with horrible fickle sports fans.

Montreal deserves MLS, Ottawa deserves USL-1 or 2.

As a native Ottawan it pains me to admit that Al is absolutely right. :(