Post Game Thread - Chivas USA at Toronto FC

[Batman]

Here you go.

Strong first half... a bit scary near the end but we definitely were the better side tonight.

[Gixmo]

Celebrate!!!!!

Congrats Stefan on your first clean sheet

I can say it - Surprised the heck out of me, but a job well done... (The 3pts that is.. Frei's 1st, is just that.. of many)http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Amado, Well finished!
Barrett - 50/50, Flashes of brilliance, Flashes of ... something (Likely offside... WTF, Will someone teach him the rule...)
DD - Inspiration... Presence... Out of Gas... (After a good effort, So no qualms there...)
Vitti - Like what I see
Serioux - MONSTER
The rest of the Dline - Consistent
Midfield - Consistent distribution, lots of flare
Carver - Tactics on (Flame away)

4-3-3 is where it is at....

[sulfur]

And now it's all over. Home win. 1-0 over the number one team in the league after five weeks. Sweet!

[TFC USA]

Carver is sent to the stands (AKA off the pitch) and we win?

Coincidence? :D


Seriously, great game, great formation, should've scored more. Everyone except Barrett (who was average) played very well.

To those who say Dichio can't play a full 90 you just witnessed it.


COME ON YOU REDS!

[James17930]

What a miraculous recovery by Guevara ;)

[Gixmo]

Ya, bit weak Batman - Clearing going for the glory of number 1 there :) lol!!!

Congrats Stefan on your first clean sheet

I can say it - Surprised the heck out of me, but a job well done... (The 3pts that is.. Frei's 1st, is just that.. of many):)

[sulfur]

Frei finally gets his clean sheet too. :)

[RedWookie]

with the exceptions to the off sides and some iffy defense at the end, AMAZING game. we got our groove back.

[James17930]

What's going on with the threads?

Anyway -- I like this formation, finally putting Cronin where he should be instead of out on the wing, using all of our best players . . .

And even though I don't like the whole 'run out the clock' strategy in the last 10 mins of a game, it worked this time.

Now we have to carry this momentum through to KC on the weekend.

[TFC USA]

First ever win against Chivas!

[Waggy]

Holy crap what a game! Barrett looked solid, Dichio looked solid, Serioux was great, even Velez had a game! There was about 15 minutes, from a few min before the Amado goal onto the second half where we just played outstanding. The ball movement was great, the offball movement too, the vision. It all just... Words failing. yaaaaaaa lol :canada:

and ya. LOVED Cronin. Loved him. Loved the alignment. Loved the pressure we had for most of the game. Just wish we had a BIT more composure for the last few min. Boy god when Serioux headed that out for a corner... haha.

[woolly]

Carver is sent to the stands (AKA off the pitch) and we win?

Coincidence? :D


Seriously, great game, great formation, should've scored more. Everyone except Barrett (who was average) played very well.

To those who say Dichio can't play a full 90 you just witnessed it.


COME ON YOU REDS!

Disagree with Barrett and Dichio... Barrett was doing outstanding duty tracking back and was almost an extra halfback, and Dichio was clearly gassed by halfway through the second half... I thought Ibbe was coming on for him.

He still makes the shit happen, though...

Outstanding work ethic for the whole teeam. constatly snapping up loose ball and fighting for possession.

[Batman]

yes sulfer I will and did...up until now I was merging the 3 post game threads

[TFCAlbertaGirl]

3 of my 4 boys are running around chanting TFC TOR ONT OHOHOH!!!!!

[Dale_Rojo]

one note. FUCK MLS Refs , we won sure but.

Vitti getting punched in the head?? no red on kleijstan

before that he intentinally handed the ball - no yellow

Although that Ridiculous punch on vitti was disgusting , reminded me of bertuzzi.

[forza_tfc]

Looked like a different team. Amazing what a different formation can do. Feels so damn good to win, especially against the top team.

[Dirk Diggler]

Great game tonight ... only real negatives were the missed chances and offsides by Barrett and the last 10 minutes of the game where Vitti was subbed off and Chivas dominated possession.

And as I said before in the other thread, exceptional performances by Dichio, Vitti, Guevera, Serioux and Cronin. There were a few mistakes in between them but for the most part, they played exciting and productive football. Cronin is defintely one to look out for.

[Dale_Rojo]

Amado is obviously hooking up well with vitti, there both speaking in spanish.... >.>

[Zidane10]

That was the best game I've seen us play this season. I think a lot of it had to do with the 4-3-3 formation, because it gave the midfield more options to pass to up front. I hope Carver will keep this formation for most of the season, because it will work well against many of the teams in MLS. I think our boys did a great job out there, with a lot of running and perseverance from the whole team. Guevara was outstanding this game, putting beautiful passes down the middle of the field. Overall, a job well done.

[TFC USA]

Feeling great about our chances against the Wizards.

[LUFC]

Keep Barrett on the wing! solid team tonight everyone played amazing!:hump:

[trane]

I know that it is not quite that simple, but as many have said, when Dichio plays we win. It continues to hold true. He needs to see more playing time. He makes the other forwards, attaking mids better. Vitti looked great, Guevarra looked great, Barrett looked much better playing more outisde, Serioux had a great game, Robbo and Cronin, need to play to protect our back line , tehy did and it worked. Brennan made some good runs. Wynne made some good runs, but made me nerous at times by lingering in the attacking end. CArver needs to keep this basis system. When De Ro returns I would not mind pushing Brennan to CB, and having Cronin play at LB. As I said I want our best players to be on the field at the start of the game.

[Keegan]

What a miraculous recovery by Guevara ;)

Fucking embarrassing. Can't stand that shit that was like Honduras Canada deja vu. Walk off the pitch ffs like a man if you are hurt. Makes me proud to be Canadian when we have champs like Julian De Guzman who gets his legs basically snapped and lands on his head and walks off the pitch. Or Iain Hume who gets a career threatening blow to the head and cracked skull and yep walks off the pitch.


But thank god Amado is ok!!! :rolleyes:

[Zidane10]

Serioux - MONSTER

AGREED!

[forza_tfc]

The trick is to keep this effective lineup each game -- Vitti & Dichio need more playing time to start linking up properly.

[Beach_Red]

As I said I want our best players to be on the field at the start of the game.


Yes.

[Dale_Rojo]

kljiestan = bitch...... god a hate that ugly motherf**ker

[Dirk Diggler]

I agree. Screw this super sub concept. Dichio should start every game. If he can't play the entire game, I'd rather he play the first half of the game rather than the second.

[TFC USA]

Don't get me wrong, Barrett works hard. But that can't offset his several missed chances and 4 offsides. He never creates for other players.

He's going to get 1 more start I think this Sunday but once DeRo comes back then Barrett should see the bench unless he bags another one.


Serioux is legend.

[trane]

^ Dichio Vitti are two of them. As Jack noted trying our "wingers" just forthe sake of ahving wingers makes no sense, if they are not delivering.

Barrett, I jsut do not see him better suited for teh in the hole striker winger role. That is how he was played today and it worked.

[boban]

Good win for the win. Especially from a mental standpoint.
Playing Vitti and Dich should tell Carver something.

We still need better finishing/ers up front.

[trane]

I think that with more playing time both Vitti and Dichio will get goals. As well as create for others.

[DinamoTFC]

The ideal lineup:

---------------Frei----------------
Wynne--Serioux--Velez---Brennan--
---------Robbo-----Cronin---------
------------Guevara---------------
------DeRo-------Vitti-----------
-------------Dichio----------------

[trane]

^ I have been calling for that for like four weeks.

[profit89]

Vitti getting punched in the head?? no red on kleijstan

Agree. That was straight red worthy.

[trane]

I like teh fight in DIchio and Vitti, plus Guevarra is not easy go lucky guy himslef.

[OneLoveOneEric]

Just got home. Great game. Best we;ve played at home this year.
Except for the fuckhead you threw the lit flare into 114 and should never see the inside of BMO Field again.

[TFCAlbertaGirl]

I'm sorry but I am totally celebrating!!!!!!!!!! My scarf is flying in the middle of the bald ass prairie. It is snowing like mad and I'm watching ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aa8Ew0_upk

[S_D]

I loved what I saw tonight.

Passing! Possession! Moving into open spaces!

It is about freaking time :)

The only thing I didn't like was right after Vitti was subbed off the team went nto a defensive shell inside their own 30 yards. You can only get away with that for so long before it costs you. I would have rather seen them keep their shape and made it a battle in the midfield as you don't often get goals from there.

Otherwise great game.

And props to Ricketts for that great tackle to foil the Chivas attack in last few moments. Lets hope that this is a turning point for him.

Keep that formation Carver! DD and Vitti proved tonight that they belong on the pitch, and not just for the last 2 minutes.

[Shway]

VELEZ SERIOUX CONNECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOR ALL THOSE VELEZ HATERS!!!!!

he played solid, and noone can tell me different

[Dale_Rojo]

has anyone noticed , that when vitti looses the ball he will always slide tackle the player? i like that ..... also wtf ricketts RUN ffs

[Sonny Cheeba]

just got back from work. GREAT NEWS! hopefully the game in 6 minutes is up so i can get a feel for what it was like. if i can from 6 minutes.

[Nerepis]

I'm sorry but I am totally celebrating!!!!!!!!!! My scarf is flying in the middle of the bald ass prairie. It is snowing like mad and I'm watching ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aa8Ew0_upk

I'm celebrating down here, right next to the Atlantic Ocean. Great Job Reds!!!

Oh yeah, Fire Carver. :rolleyes:

[Sonny Cheeba]

has anyone noticed , that when vitti looses the ball he will always slide tackle the player? i like that ..... also wtf ricketts RUN ffs

did he get subbed off? i'm disappointed to hear he had yet another bad game. what the fuck.

[Shakes McQueen]

did he get subbed off? i'm disappointed to hear he had yet another bad game. what the fuck.

According to the match report, Ricketts didn't come on until the 91st minute.

- Scott

[Oldtimer]

It's like there are two TFCs. One which we saw against KC and against first place Chivas, which plays exciting attacking football, and another which is a weak lifeless team that played against Dallas and couldn't string two passes together. The real mystery is why there are two TFCs, and the all important question is this: can JC get the exciting attacking TFC to show up for the rest of the year?

[oldmanken]

I love what I saw tonight, as the team just looked really solid. No nail biting in injury time either. I know some of you guys don't like Barrett, but he worked really hard tonight, tracked back to defend and was pretty much everywhere.

[Sonny Cheeba]

oh shit. i thought he was starting tonight. my bad.

[swan]

VELEZ SERIOUX CONNECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOR ALL THOSE VELEZ HATERS!!!!!

he played solid, and noone can tell me different


i agree 100%

[Lucky Strike]

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=12474

I invite you to check out my player ratings and destroy them with your own views. :D

[Nuvinho]

I am back from the game.....a little cold, but happy!!

Did Chivas get more than 2 shots on goal?? I know one was off a free kick, and the other was late in the game. I didn't see many opportunities from them.

[swan]

I love what I saw tonight, as the team just looked really solid. No nail biting in injury time either. I know some of you guys don't like Barrett, but he worked really hard tonight, tracked back to defend and was pretty much everywhere.

yup... great game for him i think

[Sonny Cheeba]

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=12474

I invite you to check out my player ratings and destroy them with your own views. :D

this always becomes my favourite post match thread.... better than the post match thread.

[BFin]

Didn't get to see it tonight, but love that Stefan Frei got a clean sheet. He's had some unlucky goals against. Right back in this.

[forza_tfc]

I'm celebrating down here, right next to the Atlantic Ocean. Great Job Reds!!!

Oh yeah, Fire Carver. :rolleyes:

And I'm celebrating down in Massachusetts!

[Lucky Strike]

this always becomes my favourite post match thread.... better than the post match thread.

High praise. Thank you very much. Of course, it's always more fun when we win.

[Sonny Cheeba]

High praise. Thank you very much. Of course, it's always more fun when we win.

i don't know man. all the arguing that happens when we lose makes it really entertaining.... haha

i have high hopes for your thread. i love reading arguments. too bad i can't participate in the discussion other than asking blind questions as i was at work during the match.

[kitchener-TFC]

We actually played exciting football for a good 85 minutes. The last few minutes were scary, and deja-vu lingered during that final corner kick by Chivas.
Serioux is indeed a MONSTER, and Vitti played very well.
Nice goal by Guevara.

[giambac]

Carver is sent to the stands (AKA off the pitch) and we win?

Coincidence? :D


Seriously, great game, great formation, should've scored more. Everyone except Barrett (who was average) played very well.

To those who say Dichio can't play a full 90 you just witnessed it.


COME ON YOU REDS!

Listen, your onto something.

Last year Carver's approach was that if the team won he would continue with the same lineup and players- they earned it was his argument. Why change something that wasn't broke.

well tonight Carve rwas sent off the pitch and we won. Should wwe use his same appraoch for next game and ask him to stay off the pitch.

What do you think.
what would the palyers think
what would Carver think?

[woolly]

You just cant see the positives, can you Giambac?

[billyfly]

Pleased as punch I am!

[giambac]

You just cant see the positives, can you Giambac?

I missed the game tonight.

I'm very happy with the win and the 3 points. Hopefully we can build on it and take it to Sunday's game.

All I'm saying is that Carver had a philosopghy he stood by all year last year (some said he was stubborn). Will he continue this philosophy this year and apply it to himself???

[Gixmo]

Listen, your onto something.

Last year Carver's approach was that if the team won he would continue with the same lineup and players- they earned it was his argument. Why change something that wasn't broke.

well tonight Carve rwas sent off the pitch and we won. Should wwe use his same appraoch for next game and ask him to stay off the pitch.

What do you think.
what would the palyers think
what would Carver think?

I think you should fish elsewhere....

(Side note : You should really proof-read your material, however it won't add any substance to your fact..)

Your facts are totally wrong son...

[Wagner]

we are a different team with dichio out there...
i'd like to see DeRo and Dichio start a game together.

[woolly]

As I recall, you thougholy lambasted him for that philosophy last year. Are you saying that you've flip-flopped as well to prove your (overdone) point?

You're beating a dead horse, my friend. And some of us are getting tired of the smell...

[billyfly]

Tonight is a good night. TFC win. Habs out. If only the Jays hadn't blown that 3 run lead in the 9th (although they can still win this game) all would be so beautiful!!!

[Shakes McQueen]

Listen, your onto something.

Last year Carver's approach was that if the team won he would continue with the same lineup and players- they earned it was his argument. Why change something that wasn't broke.

well tonight Carve rwas sent off the pitch and we won. Should wwe use his same appraoch for next game and ask him to stay off the pitch.

What do you think.
what would the palyers think
what would Carver think?

Carver wasn't sent off the pitch. He decided to try a new formation, and went upstairs to the press box, to get a better view of how it worked out.

Your anti-Carver demagoguery has to stop man. Criticism is fine, and healthy - but only you can turn any positive development, into a negative shot against the man.

- Scott

[Ageroo]

Time to watch the MLS feed........I tell you what it looked good from behind the net. Good movement, guys closing down on Chivas.....and me yelling at that fat bastard Thorton all second half! Let's hope they can keep the momentum of this big win and come out like gangbusters against Kansas!

[Jack]

Looks like Carver read my post :D

The only variation being Barrett for the injured DeRo.

Maybe I should become a fortune teller :)


My feeling is, with MLS, that you need to form your tactics to the players you have on hand so you can play to their strengths.

It's not like we have great players clamouring to play for an MLS team, so to a certain extent you have to make do with the roster you are given.

Carver has a style he wants to play, but he doesn't have the players for it. It's not like Barcelona or Milan or Liverpool, where they have an established style and can get the players they need to fit that style. It's more like a national team approach (not the big teams, which once again usually have a system and a style but the medium level teams) where the manager has to take the best players available and put a style in place that suits them. Look what Rhehagel did with Greece in the Euro. He got them to play a system that, while not pretty, used the players to the best of their talents and got a lesser team to win. Ask any Greek person if they care about the ugly football played.

So here we are with two defensive midfielders, one of whom is playing on the wing and three attacking midfielders (DeRo, Guevara and Vitti - yes, I think Vitti is more of a "hole" player than a full out striker) and we're playing a 17 year old striker on the wing! WTF? Why are we playing with "wingers" when we don't really have any natural wingers other than Ricketts? And he sits on the bench!

Couple that with our weak backline and only one holding mid in front of them trying to cover and it makes us shit.

Why not put Cronin and Robbo in front of the backline as a pair of defensive mids? Why not put a trio of attacking mids in front of them in DeRo, Guevara and Vitti. Then you put Dichio or Barret up front. That would play more to the strengths and abilities of the players on the field and get our better players on the pitch.

[Shakes McQueen]

Jack, do you have a red phone in your office, that goes directly to JC's cellphone? :D

- Scott

[billyfly]

^^The man is a prophet!

[Bars92]

Dichio! ( just saw the highlight on MLSnet )

[Fishnicker]

Just got back. Still cold.

From my view in 106 the last ten minutes didn't seem as nervy as some have said.

Klestjan, who I was worried about before the game, was constantly marked well, and when he did get some space was closed down quickly. Chivas seemed to hit a wall just before the 18, and were pressured into moving it back. TFC held up and I never thought we were in danger until the corner at the end.

Watching the pvr should give me a different perspective though. Did the trip on Dichio look like a sure penalty from TV? It sure did where I was.

[dag]

An absolutely GLORIOUS victory during yet another inclimate matchday. I must admit, I thoroughly expected Chivas to control the game, but they rarely threatened our goal. Toronto deserved the three points this evening.

As for Carver, I feel that we need to use all three of our substitutions - why the delay in bringing fresh legs onto the pitch?

Guevara was excellent (although I felt his mode of exit was not helpful to his reputation). Barrett still can't hit the broadside of a barn. And I have high hopes for Vitti - he's a starter for sure!

[TFC Cityboy]

solid performance all round tonight - no weak links.
We certainly needed that win and it sets us up nicely for Sunday.
Panic over or will the mongs still be out tomorrow?

[TFC_Junky]

Or was this the best game TFC has played?! The passing, flick, holding the ball, mid field control. AMAZING. I wish we saw this team week in and week out! My question is what was the difference? Barrett, Dichio and Vitti on at once, Velez for harmse, what's the difference??? This was a team that could beat anyone, can't wait for sunday!!!

[Jack]

Fuck... I just wrote a long post about the good things I saw today and got a database error :(

Short version: Vitti good, Guevara good, new formation good, Serioux good, Barrett still can't score, Dichio good, Velez invisible (which is good), team playing with heart!

It was a great performance, but we need to build on this and keep the momentum going before I'll be 100% convinced :)

[Ageroo]

An absolutely GLORIOUS victory during yet another inclimate matchday. I must admit, I thoroughly expected Chivas to control the game, but they rarely threatened our goal. Toronto deserved the three points this evening.

As for Carver, I feel that we need to use all three of our substitutions - why the delay in bringing fresh legs onto the pitch?

Guevara was excellent (although I felt his mode of exit was not helpful to his reputation). Barrett still can't hit the broadside of a barn. And I have high hopes for Vitti - he's a starter for sure!

I felt the same way when I was there, and thought his Honduran savvy might benefit us here....and then the ref added 4 minutes...ughhhh!

[Jack]

Actually, I saw Guevara signalling to the bench for a change and making the "I'm done" gesture with his hands a few minutes before he went down. I also saw him clutching his right hamstring. I hope it isn't serious.

[dag]

VERY impressive ball control tonight. The back four were strong - in fact, Frei didn't need to perform any acrobatics. We controlled the play for much of the game.

Job well done, lads!

[kitchener-TFC]

The boys are back! I'm just wondering, how can we beat Chivas, when they beat Seattle, who beat us? Confusing, yes. The main point is that we came away with 3 points!

[Super]

Cold night, but fantastic game. Just got home. Players definitely played with a TON of heart, and I'm proud of all of them tonight. Great tactics from Carver as well. Chivas is a top team and we put them in their place. 3 PTS!!!!!

[sidney]

(sorry if previously mentioned...came back from my oldtimers practice and just caught the last 10 victorious minutes, and am now watching my taped game version as I type)...but Cronin and Dichio look OHH....SOOOO.....SWEET!!!!

[rocker]

i have liked every performance from Vitti this season. He has a never-say-die attitude.. doesn't mope around... good at keeping control of the ball, and surprisingly doesn't wilt from physical play. He seems to actually enjoy the physical play. And sometimes he's all over the place.. you see him on one side, and then suddenly he's on the other, causing trouble.

Nice game... I went into this with a positive attitude and was rewarded! :)

But this is typical MLS... just as you see a team start to pull away with wins and an undefeated record, they head on the road and lose... MLS doesn't let teams pull away that easily. Chivas looked organized (and that passing period late in the game was great) but they didn't look "OH MY GOD, SO AMAZING!". This is the parity of MLS... anybody can be beaten on any given day.

[bhoybobby]

Men of the match Serioux, Vitti, Robinson & Danny Dichio. I cried laughing when Barrett got sponsors man of the match.

[CretanBull]

I think Guevara just isn't used to playing long minutes in cold weather and he cramped up...I don't think that it was an injury.

[Jack]

i have liked every performance from Vitti this season. He has a never-say-die attitude.. doesn't mope around... good at keeping control of the ball, and surprisingly doesn't wilt from physical play. He seems to actually enjoy the physical play. And sometimes he's all over the place.. you see him on one side, and then suddenly he's on the other, causing trouble.

Nice game... I went into this with a positive attitude and was rewarded! :)

But this is typical MLS... just as you see a team start to pull away with wins and an undefeated record, they head on the road and lose... MLS doesn't let teams pull away that easily. Chivas looked organized (and that passing period late in the game was great) but they didn't look "OH MY GOD, SO AMAZING!". This is the parity of MLS... anybody can be beaten on any given day.
I agree with you. I was raving about Vitti all night.

[S_D]

I felt the same way when I was there, and thought his Honduran savvy might benefit us here....and then the ref added 4 minutes...ughhhh!

Yeah don't have a hate on for Guevara. If he was faking it he gave the boys a chance to settle down, clear their heads and catch their breath. Darn ref.

If he wasn't, let's hope it isn't serious.

And just to add, the reffing was very good this eve. I have a hate on for all refs in this league, so I guess I have to be balanced and give credit when it is due :D

[JamboAl]

Yeah what was that with Barrett and MOM? He played well but Serioux was HUGE! But really no passengers this evening.

Had a great time, but I think next time I'm going to try and find something behind the goal from now on, if possible. Not a lot of passion in the part of 109 I was in.

[Nuvinho]

I am re-watching the game now.....in much warmer conditions than I was in a few hours ago.

I just got to the Dichio's missed PK..........man oh man......the refs!!

[Yohan]

An absolutely GLORIOUS victory during yet another inclimate matchday. I must admit, I thoroughly expected Chivas to control the game, but they rarely threatened our goal. Toronto deserved the three points this evening.

I dunno why, but Chivas never showed up for the game. Maybe the cold did get to them lol.

I dont want to really single out anyone, because IMO this is the best TEAM EFFORT so far this season.

The thing I like the best was winning all those balls off of Chivas. Defensively improved greatly. Lots of hustle and drive. Chivas players got tossed off the ball like cheap dolls. Men against boys tonight.

And kept possession for long periods of the match. How do you keep off the defensive pressure? Keep the damn ball and control it.

The wet surface and wind did play havoc for first 20mins or so, but the boys got used to it and controlled the game. Never really felt threatened by Chivas.

I will say that Dichio is still THE MAN. And the long balls that came to Dichio worked, because Danny only had to take a step or two to get himself under the ball to fight for it. The Man has uncanny first touch and short passing.

Serioux may be best acquisition by MoJo this season, if he keeps up this sort of defensive performance. Even Velez played decently, other than one giveaway early in the game which he made up for great defensive play mins later.

The boys played for whole 90mins and didnt shut down mentally. Well done boys! (Although 2-0 would have been a better result)

[Yohan]

Few comments about the crowd.

Thought it was going to be pretty empty, but stadium looked at least 4/5th full by 20min mark or so. South end really got into it halfway through 1st half.
Even top half of 219 where I was sitting somewhat got into it.

Adverse weather and night games bring out the best of TFC fans? lol

[sidney]

I am re-watching the game now.....in much warmer conditions than I was in a few hours ago.

I just got to the Dichio's missed PK..........man oh man......the refs!!


...yup...

[Beach_Red]

I dunno why, but Chivas never showed up for the game. Maybe the cold did get to them lol.

I dont want to really single out anyone, because IMO this is the best TEAM EFFORT so far this season.


The second line answer the question in the first line.

[TFC Bhoy]

Thought Serioux was absolutely solid tonight!! Had a couple amazing steals and great defensively, then added some great tricks and flicks going forward to get around guys! LOVED IT!!! Thought it was funny one bit when serioux made 2 great moves to get around a guy, then passes it to Velez and he gives it away lol. But Velez was WAY better then Harmse, here's hoping JC keeps him in. Great connection at the back finally I thought.

Dichio proved that he could work the full 90 and had a couple good chances. Hoping he can connect well with DeRo when he comes back!!

[sully]

I will say that Dichio is still THE MAN.

Serioux may be best acquisition by MoJo this season, if he keeps up this sort of defensive performance.

The boys played for whole 90mins and didnt shut down mentally.

That's a good summation of how the evening went for me.

And: Serioux, tonight, and in all our other games so far, has been very impressive and for me our consistently best player out there.

[Suds]

Nice to get the win tonight an way more positives to build on from this game than negatives.

The whole team just seemed much more determined to win tackles, players were tracking back, guys chasing down a player if they got beat. You could see the team knew how important these 3 points were.

[Blazer]

All I have to say after this game is “I told you so”. For all of you Carver/Mo degenerates (and you know who you are, but I don’t expect you to chime in because you’re all pussies) naysayers, go f*ck yourselves! By far the greatest victory on TFC’s premature history!

Man of the match = Flush!

Why?

Because he deserves and belongs in a capo position. Flushy, I don’t know you, nor do you know me, but tonight brother, you brought it and I am eternally thankful as is section 111 and beyond. To hell with that go-go dancing buffoon from weeks past, you are the man with the power to inspire all that is right with proper chanting and I hope to see you at every game with a megaphone in hand. Well done my man!

We’ll be fine this season, as I said, you play up and down to your opponent. Chivas is the best team in the league and the talent that our team has was met tonight. We deserved the 3 points hands down.

[sidney]

...Serioux did look/do wonderfully. I also thought Rickett's looked great (even for 3 mins)

[Suds]

And: Serioux, tonight, and in all our other games so far, has been very impressive and for me our consistently best player out there.

+1 ... Serioux had his best game by far tonight.

[sully]

All I have to say after this game is “I told you so”. For all of you Carver/Mo degenerates (and you know who you are, but I don’t expect you to chime in because you’re all pussies) naysayers, go f*ck yourselves! By far the greatest victory on TFC’s premature history!

Man of the match = Flush!

Why?

Because he deserves and belongs in a capo position. Flushy, I don’t know you, nor do you know me, but tonight brother, you brought it and I am eternally thankful as is section 111 and beyond. To hell with that go-go dancing buffoon from weeks past, you are the man with the power to inspire all that is right with proper chanting and I hope to see you at every game with a megaphone in hand. Well done my man!

We’ll be fine this season, as I said, you play up and down to your opponent. Chivas is the best team in the league and the talent that our team has was met tonight. We deserved the 3 points hands down.

I'm happy you're happy..

[Blazer]

^ I am happy that you are happy that I am happy. :D

[rocker]

to those with a better view----were all the offside calls down south legit?

[Yohan]

ok. and few things to improve on

-counterattacking. dont be so timid! run with the ball up the field and see where your teammates up and make a play. don't sit back with the ball when the opposition is out of position and you can try to open up the defence

-communication. esp in first half. if you're going to launch a long ball up the field, ensure that your teammate you're targeting knows that you are kicking the ball his way

that's about only two big thiing i picked out for needing improvement tonight

man, it feels so good to win

[zeelaw]

Shout out to Serioux..
M.O.M. for real

[Blazer]

All I have to say after this game is “I told you so”. For all of you Carver/Mo degenerates (and you know who you are, but I don’t expect you to chime in because you’re all pussies) naysayers, go f*ck yourselves! By far the greatest victory on TFC’s premature history!

Man of the match = Flush!

Why?

Because he deserves and belongs in a capo position. Flushy, I don’t know you, nor do you know me, but tonight brother, you brought it and I am eternally thankful as is section 111 and beyond. To hell with that go-go dancing buffoon from weeks past, you are the man with the power to inspire all that is right with proper chanting and I hope to see you at every game with a megaphone in hand. Well done my man!

We’ll be fine this season, as I said, you play up and down to your opponent. Chivas is the best team in the league and the talent that our team has was met tonight. We deserved the 3 points hands down.

[Suds]

Barrett was named Man of the Match. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

I thought Barrett's work rate was great tonight and I hope this is him getting his season on track. He did not give up on any ball tonight. His one chance he could have tried to draw a foul by going down but muscled past the D to create a scoring chance.

However, my vote for Man of the Match would have gone to Serioux.

[Jack]

Serioux for me as well. I liked Vitti today...he played with a lot of heart.

[sidney]

Barrett was named Man of the Match. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

I thought Barrett's work rate was great tonight and I hope this is him getting his season on track. He did not give up on any ball tonight. His one chance he could have tried to draw a foul by going down but muscled past the D to create a scoring chance.

However, my vote for Man of the Match would have gone to Serioux.

both Barrett and Seioux were awsome, period. (along many others)

[Gixmo]

Offside calls 'appeared' to be legit, but no right angle to compare it against to be honest

Am I reading it right that 111 was on game plan with the Capo tonight? That's amazing, the last game was not the case.

As for Flush, I've never met him personally, but exchanged a few IM's. The man bleeds passion... As for the 'GoGo Dancer' I think I know who you are referring to, but I wouldn't say GoGo.. There's just a style, and Flush has something many don't... Everyone brings something to the table. I'm always dancing around myself..

I hope that same atmosphere transpires Sunday... I need the top of 111 to be loud and in tune to satisfy this weird fetish of mine :)

[giambac]

Carver wasn't sent off the pitch. He decided to try a new formation, and went upstairs to the press box, to get a better view of how it worked out.

Your anti-Carver demagoguery has to stop man. Criticism is fine, and healthy - but only you can turn any positive development, into a negative shot against the man.

- Scott

HeY I'm happy and content what he did tonight. Whatever he did it worked. we got the win and the 3 points. Hopefully he saw something and it will carry forward to the next game. I think having Vitti and Dicchio in makes a difference. 2 players who really didn't play much in the past 2 games.

[bhoybobby]

Barrett was named Man of the Match. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

I thought Barrett's work rate was great tonight and I hope this is him getting his season on track. He did not give up on any ball tonight. His one chance he could have tried to draw a foul by going down but muscled past the D to create a scoring chance.

However, my vote for Man of the Match would have gone to Serioux.

Barrett must have relatives on the man of the match, there were at least 1/2 doz better than him.

I'd say either DD, or Serioux

[Yohan]

just watching the replay and c'mon. chivas defender clearly missed the ball and kicked Dichio's leg out

another reason why MLS refs blow

[greatwhitenorf]

Serioux was Godzilla tonight and Chivas was Tokyo.

He did one silly play early on, when he deked out a Chivas attacker and then ran himself into trouble. After that, kept it simple. Read the game so well and nipped in to steal so many passes or break up crosses and just wreck everything they did. Best game of the year for him by miles. More please.

Thought the absence of DeRosario forced every other player to step up and work a bit harder and that's what they did. We won countless one-on-one battles, on the ground and in the air.

From our view up top, there were a couple of off-side calls on Barrett that were really dicey. The good thing about that was it forced the Chivas defenders to really pay attention to him and prevented them from playing too high a line as they might have wanted to, pressing for an equalizer. So his hard work and running did pay off even if he didn't score. And he battled for every loose ball and won more than his fair share.

This Cronin kid showed some good defensive mid skills and also has a sharp eye for making great passes. A couple of wonderful through balls went astray as strikers weren't picking up the possiblities quick enough and his passes were rolling into empty space. It got better as the game went on.

Frei looked assured and confident. Great overall team performance to really shut down Chivas' attack. Big win and confidence builder for the weekend.

And

BEST ATMOSPHERE OF THE SEASON!!!! Great job in the stands all over the park. Let's keep this $2 beer thing going!!

[Erkan16]

Serioux not receiving man of mach is shamefull. im still not sold on Barrett yet.

on a positive note, one thing i noticed very much was that the ball control was excellent compared to past matches. great game and great win.

if we play with the same skill Sunday against KC, we should have little problem coming away with all 3.

[Daveisonfire]

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[MUFC_Niagara]

I agree with you. I was raving about Vitti all night.

He has the best first touch on our squad.

[Ageroo]

I was watching Vitti off the ball as well...great movement and got himself into good locations...I like this guy!

[mclaren]

Excellent game tonight, almost total domination from start to finish. Very disappointing show from Chivas, they looked like a different team - don't remember many shots from them. The thing that won it for us tonight was WORK RATE. Everyone worked their socks off and it worked. What still worries me though is the Jekyll and Hyde nature of our team - we'll have a great performance tonight then suck against Kansas. We can't seem to find consistency.

[Pachuco]

I said this in the other thread about Vitti. Defensive Mid?

Vitti was extremely impressive tonight. He tracks back, isn't afraid of making tackles, and great with the ball at his feet (although a couple of times he was trying to hard). In the end though, really impressed with him. I was saying during the game that oddly enough this guy could be a defensive midfielder. He just works so hard at winning the ball, and he's got good distribution to get out of our own zone. Vitti as a defensive mid is crazy, I know, but I just felt that's the role he was playing anyways.

[MUFC_Niagara]

Excellent game tonight, almost total domination from start to finish. Very disappointing show from Chivas, they looked like a different team - don't remember many shots from them. The thing that won it for us tonight was WORK RATE. Everyone worked their socks off and it worked. What still worries me though is the Jekyll and Hyde nature of our team - we'll have a great performance tonight then suck against Kansas. We can't seem to find consistency.

Let's hope we can build on this performance and carry the positives into Sunday. If i'm Carver, I hammer all of the things that got this result into the heads of my players the next 3 days!

[jloome]

Looks like Carver read my post :D

The only variation being Barrett for the injured DeRo.

Maybe I should become a fortune teller :)

Hey dude, I called that like four weeks ago. So did Trane:rolleyes:\

However, props for not just sticking it into a-----formation----- thread.:D

[Jack]

Hey dude, I called that like four weeks ago. So did Trane:rolleyes:\

However, props for not just sticking it into a-----formation----- thread.:D
LOL

Well, my crystal ball works better than yours :D

On a more serious note, it's what makes sense for our team with the players we have, so it's no big surprise that more than a few of us would draw the same conclusion.

[jloome]

Biggest differences today were the work ethic, the immediacy of our defensive challenges and everyone having an easier time with the shape of the formation. Gotta admit, I had doubt about Serioux, but he's coming through bigtime.

[rocker]

i'm watching the archive of the game on MLSnet.com and the crowd sounds massive... sounds much bigger than it looks.

[twistedchinaman]

How many more teams do we still have on the list to beat?

- Columbus
- New England

Git 'er done.

[Blazer]

Biggest differences today were the work ethic, the immediacy of our defensive challenges and everyone having an easier time with the shape of the formation. Gotta admit, I had doubt about Serioux, but he's coming through bigtime.

Good for you for admitting that you were wrong. Let’s see if Trane and guys of his elk are ready to show face and admit that they were jumping overboard with their assessments of this team and coaching staff after a few games.

This was and is the best team in the league that we beat.

[Shakes McQueen]

How many more teams do we still have on the list to beat?

- Columbus
- New England

Git 'er done.

I still remember that home match with the Revs last season, where Barrett had a great turn-and-shoot goal in the box... and then we gave up a late breakaway that Twellman finished, leaving us with a draw. :(

- Scott

[GabrielHurl]

Call me crazy - but I think that we may have found a role for Barrett - the kind of position Dirk Kuyt plays for Liverpool

[jloome]

Good for you for admitting that you were wrong. Let’s see if Trane and guys of his elk are ready to show face and admit that they were jumping overboard with their assessments of this team and coaching staff after a few games.

This was and is the best team in the league that we beat.

You mean ilk. And that's unfair; everyone was dumping on the team in the last week, and many with far mor vigour than Trane, who was mostly dumping on their tactical approach -- and correctly, as it turned out, since he was one of those who favoured a 433 with players in the right positions (i.e. Cronin as a dm).

The team deserved shit for the last three games. If we'd seen this work ethic and the obviously necessary roster changes, maybe we'd have won four.

They also deserve praise tonight for a solid, workman-like and occasionally inspired effort. They schooled Chivas tonight and if the refereeing -- particularly a couple of dubious offsides and the missed penalty -- hadn't gotten in the way, we'd have won 4-0.

[Blazer]

You mean ilk. And that's unfair; everyone was dumping on the team in the last week, and many with far mor vigour than Trane, who was mostly dumping on their tactical approach -- and correctly, as it turned out, since he was one of those who favoured a 433 with players in the right positions (i.e. Cronin as a dm).

The team deserved shit for the last three games. If we'd seen this work ethic and the obviously necessary roster changes, maybe we'd have won four.

They also deserve praise tonight for a solid, workman-like and occasionally inspired effort. They schooled Chivas tonight and if the refereeing -- particularly a couple of dubious offsides and the missed penalty -- hadn't gotten in the way, we'd have won 4-0.

And you meant vigour (before your edit). ;)

Not everyone was dumping on the team and not everyone believed that the sky was falling like Trane indirectly implied.

Tonight had nothing to do with the formation and everything to do with a rejuvenated squad looking for 3 points. It wouldn’t have taken a hero to ascertain that TFC was winning tonight come hell or high water – formations aside.

[Shakes McQueen]

And you mean vigour (before your edit). ;)

Not everyone was dumping on the team and not everyone believed that the sky was falling like Trane indirectly implied.

Tonight had nothing to do with the formation and everything to do with a rejuvenated squad looking for 3 points. It wouldn’t have taken a hero to ascertain that TFC was winning tonight come hell or high water tonight – formations aside.

Assuming you're right, that begs the more important question: Why weren't they playing with that level of determination the last four weeks?

I've never gotten a "sky is falling" vibe from Trane, unless there is some post of his I missed. He has always been pretty thoughtful and fair in his analysis.

I do believe some folks are way too disposed to try and blame our sides struggles on specific players or personnel, and I think performances like tonight prove that our problems are/were never as simple as "Carver can't coach". But I don't think Trane has ever been guilty of that.

- Scott

[Pachuco]

And you meant vigour (before your edit). ;)

Not everyone was dumping on the team and not everyone believed that the sky was falling like Trane indirectly implied.

Tonight had nothing to do with the formation and everything to do with a rejuvenated squad looking for 3 points. It wouldn’t have taken a hero to ascertain that TFC was winning tonight come hell or high water – formations aside.

Honestly though Blazer, I won't expect you to admit how wrong you are in your asessment about the team if we happen to lose Sunday. Calling out people in such a situation doens't look good. If you think tonight's win had nothing to do with the formation then I don't know what to say, I completely disagree.

[Blazer]

Assuming you're right, that begs the more important question: Why weren't they playing with that level of determination the last four weeks?

I've never gotten a "sky is falling" vibe from Trane, unless there is some post of his I missed. He has always been pretty thoughtful and fair in his analysis.

I do believe some folks are way too disposed to try and blame our sides struggles on specific players or personnel, and I think performances like tonight prove that our problems are/were never as simple as "Carver can't coach". But I don't think Trane has ever been guilty of that.

- Scott

Why these guys play the way they do is beyond any of us to approximate. We have no intel from behind the scenes and can only surmise as to what we believe to be the reason. But that ain’t worth a shit outside of simple conversation and shouldn’t be broadcasted as means to panic or dismiss of all faith and allegiance.

[Jack]

I really think having Cronin and Robbo in the defensive mid role together made a difference by taking the pressure off our defence so they didn't have to boot the ball away at every opportunity. Also, jloome, I saw the formation as more of a 4-2-3-1 than a real 4-3-3. Dichio up top with three attacking mids behind him seemed more like it to me, but that's more of a nuance thing, I guess and it could easily be either or, depending on how the attack is building.

Nonetheless, Blazer, I do think that there were a few factors and the formation was one of them. Having guys play in positions and roles they are more suited to playing makes them better players. Then there was also the sense of urgency and effort that were lacking in the past couple of games. I was one of those who was not happy with Carver and I'm really glad to see that he has the ability to be flexible and adapt his tactics to better suit the players at his disposal.

[Blazer]

Honestly though Blazer, I won't expect you to admit how wrong you are in your asessment about the team if we happen to lose Sunday. Calling out people in such a situation doens't look good. If you think tonight's win had nothing to do with the formation then I don't know what to say, I completely disagree.

^What was my assessment of the team? That they showed desire and a will to win tonight? Looked that way to me pal.

Jump back on the panic wagon if they lose on Sunday would ya, otherwise we’ll be seeing you later when you’re singing the same sad song because you’re too proud to admit that this team is a hell of a lot better than what 5 games might have initially suggested.

And believe me, I'll come back and eat crow if and when it calls. ;)

[dupont]

I felt so great at the game today. I think by passing the ball back more than usual and keeping the possession really helped TFC stay in charge of this game.
I couldn't be any happier with this.

[Blazer]

Ask any good coach about urgency and they’ll tell you it’s a toy word that fools use. Pat Quinn said it himself. If you play with urgency that means you play with trepidation and uncertainty and that has never lead to success.

John Carver isn’t guilty of adapting to what he has, he’s guilty of using the systems he has employed since day one and for once, had them pay off against a team of our calibre. You always play down the same way you always play up to your opponents and we are no different. We came to play tonight and the formation had some, but not everything to do with it.

[Shakes McQueen]

Why these guys play the way they do is beyond any of us to approximate. We have no intel from behind the scenes and can only surmise as to what we believe to be the reason. But that ain’t worth a shit outside of simple conversation and shouldn’t be broadcasted as means to panic or dismiss of all faith and allegiance.

O... kay? haha :D

- Scott

[rocker]

btw, didn't Guevara hate Preki when he was with Chivas, and that's the reason he left the league to play in Honduras (until TFC brought him back to MLS)???

Must be sweet for him to score that goal against Preki's side.

[Shakes McQueen]

I really think having Cronin and Robbo in the defensive mid role together made a difference by taking the pressure off our defence so they didn't have to boot the ball away at every opportunity. Also, jloome, I saw the formation as more of a 4-2-3-1 than a real 4-3-3. Dichio up top with three attacking mids behind him seemed more like it to me, but that's more of a nuance thing, I guess and it could easily be either or, depending on how the attack is building.

Nonetheless, Blazer, I do think that there were a few factors and the formation was one of them. Having guys play in positions and roles they are more suited to playing makes them better players. Then there was also the sense of urgency and effort that were lacking in the past couple of games. I was one of those who was not happy with Carver and I'm really glad to see that he has the ability to be flexible and adapt his tactics to better suit the players at his disposal.

Again, well said Jack. :D

- Scott

[Jack]

Sorry for using a "toy word that fools use" :rolleyes:. Urgency in the sense that they needed a win and came out and got it. However you want to say it is fine with me. Maybe you can teach me something new.

They played hard. They played with heart. They played like they cared. Whatever you want to call it.

And I do believe that playing guys in roles they are used to affects the way they play. They are more likely to go with their instincts and just play. I'm sure there are many factors and we're probably all a little bit right. We could theorize about it all night, but I'm going to sleep.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

John Carver isn’t guilty of adapting to what he has, he’s guilty of using the systems he has employed since day one and for once, had them pay off against a team of our calibre. You always play down the same way you always play up to your opponents and we are no different. We came to play tonight and the formation had some, but not everything to do with it.

yep
ideally this game has changed some ideas and there will be no more pushing square pegs into round holes

[Cashcleaner]

Hmmm, I guess we have multiple post-game thread going on. No matter, here are my abridged ramblings on tonight's game:

Vitti - Just look at this guy! He's got a boatload of hustle when needed and a good sense of positioning and pace. If he has the ball, he's passing it or maintaining possession. If he loses the ball, he doesn't give up on it and fights for it back. When we first signed him I had my doubts as to his real level of skill, but he is really shaping up well with us.

Frei - Pains me to say it, but he's looking to be a superior keeper to Sutton. He didn't have a lot of work tonight, but did a great job when it was required from him. This guy is the wave of the future.

Barrett - Chad had a good chance at racking up a goal tonight but didn't see it pan out. Aside from that, he hustled well on the pitch and I really think he got under the skin of the Chivas D.

Guevara - Obviously, he gave us the goal that we needed for the win. Props for finding the back of the net.

I'm going to be honest, but I was expecting a 0-0 draw for today's game. Kudos go to Carver for putting together a solid starting IX and all who contributed.

[Roogsy]

one note. FUCK MLS Refs , we won sure but.

Vitti getting punched in the head?? no red on kleijstan

before that he intentinally handed the ball - no yellow

Although that Ridiculous punch on vitti was disgusting , reminded me of bertuzzi.


TRUE AND TRUE!

Add to that the non-call on the foul on Dichio and if Chivas had scored at the end, I think I would have gone ballistic.

But with 3 points in the bag...I went home happy and whistling. Oh how a TFC win puts me in a good mood!

[Roogsy]

The biggest factor in the win tonight:

Hustle.

End of story. This team wanted the win. This team closed down. From the defenders right to the forwards. This team tackled. This team played composed.

I like how this team played.

I want to see more of this team.

Please.

[Roogsy]

I have been ranting about wanting to see more of Vitti out there for weeks.

Now we all know why. This guy brings quality.

The linking with Guevara? OMG...it's sex on the pitch.

Give these guys a few real games to gel...and I think they can bring us to the promised land! :party:

[Inswingingwingman]

I wanted to post last night, but sat with my scarf on and a Wisers in my fist.

1. That coverage was shite. If I had known that lots of seats were for sale I'd have got on the train and come in from London. Even if it cost me $300 bucks for train and hotel I would have been there, especially given the result.

2. The coverage. No player intros, no anthem, just 10 mins before a shot of them coming out and then 12 minutes of commercials. Shite. Back only to Danny as the other side took the ball running like crazy for the box, we didn't have possession and I was pumped.

3. Serioux, are you kidding me? He just took the ball away from everyone, turned and basically just calmly played the ball. Made fools out of anyone came near.

4. Danny oh boy.. should start every game and when gassed come out. They should have had a sub out celebration even if it was 20 seconds into extra time.

5. Frei didn't do squat, clean sheet due to the pressure, the play in the other end, and the work.

6. Did I say Serioux was a monster?

7. Back line was awesome.

8. Mid field was awesome.

9. The forwards were almost awesome.

10. The ref was shite.

11. Where were the fans? Why were 1/2 the seats you could see vacant?

12. Why did the camera angle make you think they shot the game from Hamilton and couldn't zoom in far enough to see who was playing?

13. 1/10 of a second at the start they showed some smoke from the south end. Later you got one close up of a big flag being waved. Other than that the tv coverage was shite.

14. Serioux..wait I said that.

AWEsome! I loved that game except please score 3 or 4 goals so I can relax and not be scared to go and refill my glass.

Last: I don't regret sitting here like a girl posting Oh, OH my god.......I was in heaven.....watching..and wondering....can we just keep playing like that?

[trane]

LOL

Well, my crystal ball works better than yours :D

On a more serious note, it's what makes sense for our team with the players we have, so it's no big surprise that more than a few of us would draw the same conclusion.

That is exaclty it. It makes sense, and played with heart it will work. I hope he sticks to it. What did not get enought comment, is that the two holding/D mids realy helped keep the ball in Chivas half and away from our back four, and box. A good thing, and exaclty why we thought the two of them should be used. The balls and runners that came though were easier for the backline to handle, as they were not under the ussual pressure.

[Wooster_TFC]

I really think having Cronin and Robbo in the defensive mid role together made a difference by taking the pressure off our defence so they didn't have to boot the ball away at every opportunity. Also, jloome, I saw the formation as more of a 4-2-3-1 than a real 4-3-3. Dichio up top with three attacking mids behind him seemed more like it to me, but that's more of a nuance thing, I guess and it could easily be either or, depending on how the attack is building.

Nonetheless, Blazer, I do think that there were a few factors and the formation was one of them. Having guys play in positions and roles they are more suited to playing makes them better players. Then there was also the sense of urgency and effort that were lacking in the past couple of games. I was one of those who was not happy with Carver and I'm really glad to see that he has the ability to be flexible and adapt his tactics to better suit the players at his disposal.

From what I saw, which I'll admit was mainly the second half, the formation was a 4-3-3 ala Barcelona, with the outside strikers running in whenever the felt they had the chance, and Dichio really playing more of a centre forward role.

Personally I think there were two major changes today that made a HUGE difference:

1. Not having two converted midfielders playing centre back. I'm sorry, while I think Harmse can be good at CB, and Serioux as well, I think they both need someone who has played at the back for a while. I really think that having Velez back there contributed to Serioux having his monster game, as Velez better understands how to play the trap, and what to do when Serioux steps up, whereas Harmse would either be caught too deep (thus negating the trap) or flat-footed.

2. Cronin playing a proper DM (or holding, or whatever you want to call it). Robinson has great marking and tackling skills, to go with solid composure, decision making and short passing. His long passing is crap because it's inconsistent and I really believe his vision is lacking. He really needs someone to tap the ball off to in order to play his game appropriately. Guevara was supposed to be that someone, but I think it's become quite clear that he will only track back far enough to do that when he feels like it. Having Cronin literally right beside Robinson really helped Carl out tonight. I can't remember the number of times that Cronin sent a great through ball off of what appeared to be Robinson losing the ball on the dribble, when it was actually a short pass.

Dichio was a monster up front as well, holding the ball up when needed, and flicking it on as required. The only concern I have with respect to this formation is the question as to what happens when Dichio gets either gassed or hurt. Who do you sub in for him in that spot? Realistically, it's the only spot that you don't have someone else that you can slot into the position. I would love to see us pick up a young target man before the end of the season so that Dichio can pass on some of his knowledge while he's still playing, which I think adds more than a coach to be honest.

[SanStarko]

Credit to Carver for last nights performance. Over the last few games I'd been the feeling that he just didn't seem to know how to get the best from these players and how to use them. But lastnight he got everything right. Players in their proper positions, attack minded and not trying to keep using wingers when our strength is in the middle of the pitch.

I also think having Cronin and Robbo in those defensive midfield positions helped make Serioux play even better. Up until now I'd been wavering a bit as regards how good he was in defence, too many times I felt he started pushing up the pitch, almost in def mid position and leaving Velez/Harmse exposed. But lastnight with Robbo and Cronin sitting in there he was able to just concentrate on dealing with things in and around the box and he was fantastic at it. He also seemed to rub off on Velez who had a fine game too.

Cronin looked great, hopefully after that performance he'll be kept in his proper position now instead of being shoved out on the wing like earlier.

Vitti showed that he can be a really good player for us. Faded a bit later on, typically right after I made a comment in the game thread that he was looking better the longer the game went on, but he looks a great player. Great awareness of what's going on around him, good on the ball and not scared to chase back and try and put in tackles.

Everybody looked in a bit of a panic in the last ten minutes or so but it's not a surprise. Seemed like the thought of conceeding goals late on started to play on their minds a bit. I think winning 1-0 is probably going to do their confidence more good than if we'd won 2-0. If we'd gone 2-0 up the pressure would have been off them for the last ten minutes. With only having the one goal lead though the pressure was on them and they got through it, so hopefully they'll be a bit calmer the next time we go into the last 10 minutes of a game with only a one goal lead.

Great stuff overall, more of the same on Sunday please.

Oh yeah, and Dichio...what can you say? The guy should be starting everygame that he's fit for. Great footballing brain on him and he just seems to have that presence about him that rubs off on the rest of our players and affects the opposition.

[Jack]

From what I saw, which I'll admit was mainly the second half, the formation was a 4-3-3 ala Barcelona, with the outside strikers running in whenever the felt they had the chance, and Dichio really playing more of a centre forward role.

Personally I think there were two major changes today that made a HUGE difference:

1. Not having two converted midfielders playing centre back. I'm sorry, while I think Harmse can be good at CB, and Serioux as well, I think they both need someone who has played at the back for a while. I really think that having Velez back there contributed to Serioux having his monster game, as Velez better understands how to play the trap, and what to do when Serioux steps up, whereas Harmse would either be caught too deep (thus negating the trap) or flat-footed.

2. Cronin playing a proper DM (or holding, or whatever you want to call it). Robinson has great marking and tackling skills, to go with solid composure, decision making and short passing. His long passing is crap because it's inconsistent and I really believe his vision is lacking. He really needs someone to tap the ball off to in order to play his game appropriately. Guevara was supposed to be that someone, but I think it's become quite clear that he will only track back far enough to do that when he feels like it. Having Cronin literally right beside Robinson really helped Carl out tonight. I can't remember the number of times that Cronin sent a great through ball off of what appeared to be Robinson losing the ball on the dribble, when it was actually a short pass.

Dichio was a monster up front as well, holding the ball up when needed, and flicking it on as required. The only concern I have with respect to this formation is the question as to what happens when Dichio gets either gassed or hurt. Who do you sub in for him in that spot? Realistically, it's the only spot that you don't have someone else that you can slot into the position. I would love to see us pick up a young target man before the end of the season so that Dichio can pass on some of his knowledge while he's still playing, which I think adds more than a coach to be honest.

Yeah, the two formations are fairly similar. It depends on what Guevara does and I saw him playing more forward than usual, which is what led me to think about the 4-2-3-1. The difference between what we played and Barcelona's 4-3-3 is that they play with one holding mid and two more offensive minded mids (though all three of their regular starters are pretty good going forward :D). In our case, Guevara was the one out in front of Cronin and Robbo, so sort of inverted the shape that Barca uses. Their mid is more of a V, while ours look more like ^.

Anyway, I'll need to watch a tape of the game to monitor the positioning and the way guys lined up and so on. Whatever it was, it worked :)

[Wooster_TFC]

Yeah, the two formations are fairly similar. It depends on what Guevara does and I saw him playing more forward than usual, which is what led me to think about the 4-2-3-1. The difference between what we played and Barcelona's 4-3-3 is that they play with one holding mid and two more offensive minded mids (though all three of their regular starters are pretty good going forward :D). In our case, Guevara was the one out in front of Cronin and Robbo, so sort of inverted the shape that Barca uses. Their mid is more of a V, while ours look more like ^.

Anyway, I'll need to watch a tape of the game to monitor the positioning and the way guys lined up and so on. Whatever it was, it worked :)

No you are correct, Barcelona plays with two box-to-box type midfielders and a holding one, but there's pretty much a guarantee that one of those two box-to-box guys will come back to play a holding mid type of role while on defense. I think you'll more of that in the second half from Cronin, as he was getting forward more often.

The problem with TFC trying to play that way (even though that would be the goal to be honest), is Guevara gives up on the ball way too much when he should be tracking back regardless. Maybe it was the cold, but there were several times where I recall him walking, or lightly jogging to track back, leaving Cronin to deal with the mop up duties with Robinson.

Either way, the forward lineup is much the same way, and I would hardly say that our two outside forwards were playing AM roles...

[dannyd]

That is exaclty it. It makes sense, and played with heart it will work. I hope he sticks to it. What did not get enought comment, is that the two holding/D mids realy helped keep the ball in Chivas half and away from our back four, and box. A good thing, and exaclty why we thought the two of them should be used. The balls and runners that came though were easier for the backline to handle, as they were not under the ussual pressure.

One thing with Chivas is they are great at attacking down the middle. The idea of putting Cronin and Robinson, Serioux and Velez together in the middle was either genius on the part of Carver or a complete fluke.

This is where it comes down to coaching. If we play this way against a team with good wing play we'll have trouble. Look at the last ten minutes of the match, Chivas finally decided to start playing the flanks and they had us under pressure. Wynne and especially Jimmy B are the weakest link and we were lucky Chivas didn't figure that out until the 80th minute.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/04/22/guevara_amado_reuters_260.jpg (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/04/22/tfc_chivas/)

Goooooooooooooooooooooal!

[Jack]

No you are correct, Barcelona plays with two box-to-box type midfielders and a holding one, but there's pretty much a guarantee that one of those two box-to-box guys will come back to play a holding mid type of role while on defense. I think you'll more of that in the second half from Cronin, as he was getting forward more often.

The problem with TFC trying to play that way (even though that would be the goal to be honest), is Guevara gives up on the ball way too much when he should be tracking back regardless. Maybe it was the cold, but there were several times where I recall him walking, or lightly jogging to track back, leaving Cronin to deal with the mop up duties with Robinson.

Either way, the forward lineup is much the same way, and I would hardly say that our two outside forwards were playing AM roles...
Yeah...as I said, it's very close and often the shape changes throughout the game. Cronin and Robbo definitely were the mop-up guys out there. I think Vitti played more of a free "in the hole" role while Barrett was more of an outside forward, which fits their styles. Anyway, the fine nuances of the formation are tougher to pick out from the corner when you're jumping and singing :D. I'll have to watch the game again and I'll probably see what you mean.

[Wooster_TFC]

Yeah...as I said, it's very close and often the shape changes throughout the game. Cronin and Robbo definitely were the mop-up guys out there. I think Vitti played more of a free "in the hole" role while Barrett was more of an outside forward, which fits their styles. Anyway, the fine nuances of the formation are tougher to pick out from the corner when you're jumping and singing :D. I'll have to watch the game again and I'll probably see what you mean.

Too true. Also as I said, I only caught maybe 3/4s of the second half, so it might have been an entirely different story in the first :)

[mastermixer]

it gives me the chills to think what we could of done if we had DeRo out there instead of Barret and keep everything else as is.

[Oldtimer]

Vitti and Guevara played very well together, probably due to both of them understanding the "latino" style of play. I'd like to see more of this! DD perfectly complemented their effort by being the target man, heading the ball down and creating havoc for defenders. DD created that first goal opportunity.

Kudos to the coaching staff's personel decisions this game. The post-game interview confirmed that who-to-play strategy is being made not just by Carver alone, but by the coaches as a group. It looks like they were waiting for Vitti to recover from his injury and DD to get his fitness up before deciding to start them. With them starting, we have a great attack force! We hardly missed having DeRo, although I'm sure he could have finished some of those chances that Barrett missed.

Carver is to be commended for taking a risk and mixing things up. It was great to see TFC play this way, if they can be consistent and keep this up, we will definately win the Voyageurs Cup, a CL spot, and make the playoffs.

To those who said that they hoped we would lose so that Carver would be closer to being fired: shame on you. It feels great to see TFC have such a convincing win against the best team in the league.

There are still some points of concern:

(1) TFC is a great attacking team, but weak defensively. The best way to win is to keep the pressure on and take pressure off of our own D. They seemed to forget this in the last 10 minutes, and could have conceded a late goal. I think that this is the key to the late goal give-ups that the team has been suffering.

(2) Velez played a fairly solid game, but early on he did one of his classic foul-ups and failed to clear the ball. Fortunately Chivas didn't capitalize, and he had a second chance, but I'm still scared every time he gets the ball. We need that strong CB that Mo is trying to get.

(3) TFC does well against teams that play a direct style (KC, Chivas), but has difficulty against possession-oriented team (Seattle, Dallas). They need to figure out how to handle the latter before DC United comes to town.

[trail]

Great Game!!!! Hopefully The Start Of A Very Long Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d

[Lucky Strike]

I really think having Cronin and Robbo in the defensive mid role together made a difference by taking the pressure off our defence so they didn't have to boot the ball away at every opportunity. Also, jloome, I saw the formation as more of a 4-2-3-1 than a real 4-3-3. Dichio up top with three attacking mids behind him seemed more like it to me, but that's more of a nuance thing, I guess and it could easily be either or, depending on how the attack is building.

Nonetheless, Blazer, I do think that there were a few factors and the formation was one of them. Having guys play in positions and roles they are more suited to playing makes them better players. Then there was also the sense of urgency and effort that were lacking in the past couple of games. I was one of those who was not happy with Carver and I'm really glad to see that he has the ability to be flexible and adapt his tactics to better suit the players at his disposal.

That's what I saw as well. This win was very much needed and cleared the air around here, at least that's my feeling.

[s2cazz]

I missed the first half before the goal. So I can't speak for that half but here's what I saw.
1. Velez and Serioux were absolutely amazing together
2. Barrett was great as support and was making himself some good opportunities he just couldn't capitalize on.
3. Dichio was a tank... but I would have liked to see him subbed off for Ibby
4. Vitti was great...absolutely a work horse. I would like to see him play more of a central role.
5. This was definately one of guevara's better games. when he is on point he is absolutely amazing, I am not his biggest fan thats for sure but I have no complaints today about him.

[Yohan]

That is exaclty it. It makes sense, and played with heart it will work. I hope he sticks to it. What did not get enought comment, is that the two holding/D mids realy helped keep the ball in Chivas half and away from our back four, and box. A good thing, and exaclty why we thought the two of them should be used. The balls and runners that came though were easier for the backline to handle, as they were not under the ussual pressure.
Keeping possession really made it easier for the back 4, and the fullbacks esp Brennan went up forward intelligently to keep pressure on chivas defence.

I was wondering if playing with 3 strikers and no wingers was going to affect flank play, but Barrett, Vitti and Brennan provided plenty of overlapping runs and such.

Love it when a game plan just comes together

[Steve]

Yeah...as I said, it's very close and often the shape changes throughout the game. Cronin and Robbo definitely were the mop-up guys out there. I think Vitti played more of a free "in the hole" role while Barrett was more of an outside forward, which fits their styles. Anyway, the fine nuances of the formation are tougher to pick out from the corner when you're jumping and singing :D. I'll have to watch the game again and I'll probably see what you mean.

I sit in section 223 (pretty much at the midline) so have a pretty good view to watch the formations (better than TV I find since I always get to watch the entire pitch). What I saw was a definite 4-2-1-3 (or 4-3-3 if you prefer, I just say 4-2-1-3 to ensure it isn't confused with a 4-1-2-3). I actually really liked this formation, as the two defensive mid's really seemed to shut down the midfield, and since our forwards were coming back so much, and our centerbacks were steady behind them, it allowed both robbo and cronin to make some great anticipation interceptions without worrying about leaving a man unmarked. This formation also allowed Wynne and Brennan to go forward more aggressively since either DM could slot in for them. The only problem I saw was, since we had no real wingers, there were a bunch of times where Brennan and Wynne got themselves in trouble, but had no support (Guevara didn't always come in to give them an option, and the two wide forwards were often pushing up during an attack).

About the players, I was generally impressed. Serioux still gives me a heart attack when he's trying to dribble around a few guys and the last (or second last) man back, but he hasn't made too many terrible mistakes yet, so I can't really fault him. I may be one of the few people here that actually thinks Barrett deserved the man of the match. From where I was sitting, he was everywhere. He forced more mistakes from chivas than anyone. Not only that, but he worked himself into good spaces and got a few good chances (anyone who blames him for getting stopped by the keeper was watching a different game. He fought off two centerbacks to get that attempt, and let off a great shot. Yes, the keeper got a piece of it, but it was a great save).

My only question is, if people like this formation, how does DeRo fit in? I know what most of you will say (Barrett) but I'm not sure I agree. To start off with, we only have 4 options (attacking mid and 3 strikers). No point in replacing Guevara, since he is a great player and you want to play your best. Dero can't slot in for Danny, he isn't the same type of player, and wouldn't provide the same stability. That leaves Vitti and Barrett. Personally, I thought the work rate of both of them was what made this formation truely effective. Sure, DeRo is better than Barrett, but I don't see DeRo covering the same distance or getting in people's faces as much as Barrett did today (or possibly even Vitti).

The only thing I can think of is to change the formation to 4-1-2-3 (take out Cronin, slot in DeRo beside Guevara) but Cronin has been playing really well, and the 2 defensive midfielders formation helped us really retain our strength through the midfield. Or take Velez out and play 3-2-2-3 (Best players on the field!).

So, I guess I just don't know. Maybe we'll play this for the 10 (or howevermany) games Guevara is out (DeRo for Guevara), but other than that, I don't know who to take out. Good problem to have I guess.

[Nuvinho]

This game reminded me of how they played the 1st game against KC, a lot of touches on the ball and fluid passing.

[Nuvinho]

My only question is, if people like this formation, how does DeRo fit in?

I was thinking the same thing, Amado likes to be the guy on the ball, and seems to do better when he is controlling the play.

[trane]

Good for you for admitting that you were wrong. Let’s see if Trane and guys of his elk are ready to show face and admit that they were jumping overboard with their assessments of this team and coaching staff after a few games.

This was and is the best team in the league that we beat.

I was wrong in asking Carver to do, exactly, what he did last night? It had nothing to do with tactics? So it was just a conidcidence that the game that he used tactics and formations similar to those me and others had been asking for weeks, that we won and looked good in doing so. I did not feel the sky was falling, as I do not feel like we will win the MLS now, we were in going in the wrong direction, it looks like we have found the right direction, I hope we stick to it, and I hope it continues working.

[Shakes McQueen]

Just had a chance to watch the recording of the game again - I gotta say, I thought Barrett played well last night. Did a great job on defense, and took his one good chance well - it was just a good save by Thornton.

I actually think I like him working more along the touch line, although he had a couple of crosses that left a bit to be desired. Made a lot of good passes, won a lot of balls, and just generally fit in well with the attacking scheme.

A good game by all. I can't think of one person who didn't play well.

- Scott

[maninb]

For God's sake Carver keep this EXACT lineup/formation for Sunday...When Dero comes back put him in Barrett's spot...even though I thought Barrett had a decent game.

[Yohan]

Key stat
Chivas shots attempted 3, shots on goal 1

[trane]

No matter how you define it the basic feature that worked were; 1) Two Holding/Defensive Mids/ 2) AM/SS playing behind/around Danny, 3) forgeting pure/classic wing play as Jloome said narrwoing the field in the sense, while allowing the outsidebacks to come up. I am not sure, if Guevarra was more behing the others, or was he just allowed to roam. But it worked.

Velez, may not be all world, but he is a CB and it showed.


You got to play a formation that suites your player. Carver did it last night. I got to give it to him. People played in their roles, and played well because their roles suited them.

[nimamalek]

Dichio starts we win again...

[Jack]

Barrett needs to get his crosses up and his shots down :D

[trane]

Someone had asked what happens when Dichio get hurt. I do think that if we bring another striker in, it should be a target man type, like Dichio, to compliment the other players we have.

[mclaren]

It was really easy to appreciate Barrett's workrate and power last night. Often we would send hopeful long balls up the wing and he would chase them down and use some serious muscle power to win the ball for us. It's hard for people to really appreciate what that means - it's a very hard thing to do but makes such a difference. He had a good game but I think our three strikers led from the top - they all worked their socks off and played hard non-stop. That makes a huge difference because they're defending from the front and taking the onus off midfield and defence.

[T.Reis]

My question is...... Did TFC make Chivas look bad? or did Chivas make TFC look good?

[Oldtimer]

My question is...... Did TFC make Chivas look bad? or did Chivas make TFC look good?

TFC made Chivas look bad.

Don't forget, Chivas only let in 2 goals before our match.

[Fort York Redcoat]

TFC made Chivas look bad.

Don't forget, Chivas only let in 2 goals before our match.

Chivas looked like they had 2 touches all game.:D

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I thought the first half was 50/50 but we definitely dominated the second half.
Hope we keep that formation on saturday

[scooter]

that was an awesome performance
hard work lots of passing and yes control of the midfield
barrett worked his butt off and deserved player of the game
so did everyone else though
RFO---right fucking on

tor ont ooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh tfc

[Roogsy]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/04/22/guevara_amado_reuters_260.jpg (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/04/22/tfc_chivas/)

Goooooooooooooooooooooal!


This picture makes me tear up a little...I am not kidding.

[Roogsy]

My question is...... Did TFC make Chivas look bad? or did Chivas make TFC look good?

TFC made Chivas look bad. We played well...it wasn't that Chivas played poorly.

TFC simply wanted this game more. And played like it.

If only they would bring this every game. We'd win the league!

[Nuvinho]

I have that on my facebook page as my profile pic.........El Lobo

[trane]

^ Every time I see us play like last night, and it has not been often, I wonder why we cannot do it on a constant basis. It seems to simple and yet it has eluded us. I hope the time for a strech of in form play is now.

[spezz44]

so who comes out of teh starting 11 for dero??

[Nuvinho]

so who comes out of teh starting 11 for dero??

tough question, but a good problem to have. I will have to defer my answer until DeRo is 100% ready to come back.

[Roogsy]

^ Thankfully, we don't have to worry about that for at least one more game.

But it's a good problem to have.

[Roogsy]

^ Every time I see us play like last night, and it has not been often, I wonder why we cannot do it on a constant basis. It seems to simple and yet it has eluded us. I hope the time for a strech of in form play is now.

Notice the lack of "long ball" last night? Good solid passing and possession.

I actually enjoyed watching them play....TWICE!

[ParadymeTFC]

Game is on GolTV right now if anyone wants to watch it agian.

[Roogsy]

I have that on my facebook page as my profile pic.........El Lobo

If you don't mind...I just stole your idea. I had to. :D

[felipe]

maybe its as simple as matching up better against certain teams?

Maybe it was not having to accomadate two players in the same side that need a free license to create? Maybe both simply play better when they are 'the man'. It takes time for those two (and the coaching staff) to figure out how best to make it work.

I think the match wasn't that much different than our previous ones...our D had a little less pressure on them and were able to distribute better...Barrett played his usual strong game in a more withdrawn role than usual...Chivas couldn't cope with Dichio

A late goal by chivas changes everything on these boards...thank god it didn't happen

I'll start spamming the boards with threads about why Carver is bigger than Jesus shortly...

[Roogsy]

maybe its as simple as matching up better against certain teams?

Maybe it was not having to accomadate two players in the same side that need a free license to create? Maybe both simply play better when they are 'the man'. It takes time for those two (and the coaching staff) to figure out how best to make it work.

I think the match wasn't that much different than our previous ones...our D had a little less pressure on them and were able to distribute better...Barrett played his usual strong game in a more withdrawn role than usual...Chivas couldn't cope with Dichio

A late goal by chivas changes everything on these boards...thank god it didn't happen

I'll start spamming the boards with threads about why Carver is bigger than Jesus shortly...


Seriously, this is so true. And there were spells in the 2nd half where they started to fall back into their usual "protection" mode which we all know is DEATH. We were on our heels for long stretches there and it was worrying me.

But the D held.

Now to have them play 90 minutes and we have a winner! And we HAVE to learn to put in that killer 2nd goal that demoralizes our opponents. HAVE TO HAVE TO!

[Nuvinho]

If you don't mind...I just stole your idea. I had to. :D

I stole it from sportsnet....hahaha!!!!

[Yohan]

Notice the lack of "long ball" last night? Good solid passing and possession.

I actually enjoyed watching them play....TWICE!
actually, there was plenty of long balls. but it made sense for most part, because it was aimed at Dichio who can actually win long balls and aren't launched into middle of nowhere.

and the boys mixed up passing so it's not all long balls and some short passes too

[Roogsy]

actually, there was plenty of long balls. but it made sense for most part, because it was aimed at Dichio who can actually win long balls and aren't launched into middle of nowhere.

and the boys mixed up passing so it's not all long balls and some short passes too

My "lack" reference has more to do with the fact that they mixed it up.

Were they going to run it up the middle. On the wing? Boot it up to to Dichio? Chivas never knew. And THAT was key.

But in watching the game...I would have to say that the true "long ball" from the backfield to the forwards were kept to a minimum. That in the midfield they would use Dichio's heigh advantage to move up the ball did happen, but I don't call that "long ball" football.

With longball you also get a lot of running down the ball on the flanks...which we did from time to time, but it was scarce as well.

The point is you have to confuse your enemy and keep them guessing. We haven't been doing enough of that.

[trane]

Notice the lack of "long ball" last night? Good solid passing and possession.

I actually enjoyed watching them play....TWICE!


Agreed. It was a treat. Not perfect but defentley the right direction.

[LucaGol]

so who comes out of teh starting 11 for dero??

Barrett.


Wynne --- Serioux --- Velez ---- Brennan
--------- Cronin ---- Robinson
--------------Guevara
Vitti -------------------------- De Rosario
-------------- Dichio


Perfect line-up imo.

[trane]

maybe its as simple as matching up better against certain teams?

Maybe it was not having to accomadate two players in the same side that need a free license to create? Maybe both simply play better when they are 'the man'. It takes time for those two (and the coaching staff) to figure out how best to make it work.

I think the match wasn't that much different than our previous ones...our D had a little less pressure on them and were able to distribute better...Barrett played his usual strong game in a more withdrawn role than usual...Chivas couldn't cope with Dichio

A late goal by chivas changes everything on these boards...thank god it didn't happen

I'll start spamming the boards with threads about why Carver is bigger than Jesus shortly...

No it would not have happened. It was not a perfect game. Carver had them play well last night. I applaud him for that, but he should have done this earlier. That does not change. I do not know why people cannot look at games realistically and analytically. We played like shit for the most part this year, and for the most part since mid year 2008. We continued to look out of form, and like our players were being used in the wrong manner. He did the right thing yesterday. I hope it keeps, but we need a strech of this, before we can say that he has gotten the team in the right direction. This si not anti-Carver but simply a realistic look at our team. Something many are not willing to do.

Enough of this could have should have. We were in good form. We won. The correct tactics were used, not becuase they won, but because our players were able to use their skills to the best of their abilites. Why is this so hard to understand?

Tactics and coaching count in footy, particullarly in a team with so much parety and imperfect players like ours.

[Darlofletch]

fantastic performance. Some really good patient passing and keeping possession instead of panicking and just lumping it forward.

Round about the 5 minute mark we put together 15 passes (I counted it from my pvr when i got home), I was ole-ing.

As lots of people have said, and as I've been saying since game 1, Serioux is just immense, I can't believe how good he's been, I'm going to buy a Canada shirt (the tfc one's just ugly)and get his name on it.

Velez did well, as someone said earlier, he was invisible, and that's just how you want velez to be.

Wynne paid attention to his right back duties and didn't go missing.

The midfield and forwards worked really well. Barrett's best game of the season by far, I would have gone with Serioux but i have no problem with Barrett getting man of ther match.

key to it all, Cronin and Robinson both as dm. Made it a lot easier to pass the ball up to the forwards, and really helped defensively.

In a lot of games we've given up way too many shots from outside the box, and that just didn't happen yesterday.

I think my threshold just got pushed back another month or so. The potential of another performance like last nights will (hopefully not have to)get me through a lot of crap.

Crowd was good, and even got slightly going in 224. Aside from the flare throwing morons, a very good night.

[jloome]

And you meant vigour (before your edit). ;)

Not everyone was dumping on the team and not everyone believed that the sky was falling like Trane indirectly implied.

Tonight had nothing to do with the formation and everything to do with a rejuvenated squad looking for 3 points. It wouldn’t have taken a hero to ascertain that TFC was winning tonight come hell or high water – formations aside.

FAIL. I edited "school", present tense, into "schooled."

Nice guess though!

[CenturySam]

did anybody else see when Barrett was called offside and he took the free shot anyways, Thornton didn't even try to stop it and Barrett still missed the net! WTF is up with that?

[Yohan]

did anybody else see when Barrett was called offside and he took the free shot anyways, Thornton didn't even try to stop it and Barrett still missed the net! WTF is up with that?
of all the things, you're picking on something that didnt even count in the game? that one is like a non point

how about praising Barrett, like the time he outmuscled two Chivas defenders to have a shot on target that Thornton made a great save to keep it 1-0 at the end of 1st half?

some of you are overcritical

[Roogsy]

Word Yohan...word.

[Darlofletch]

of all the things, you're picking on something that didnt even count in the game? that one is like a non point

how about praising Barrett, like the time he outmuscled two Chivas defenders to have a shot on target that Thornton made a great save to keep it 1-0 at the end of 1st half?

some of you are overcritical

+1 to that. Barrett had a great game.

[Pachuco]

I'm personally heartbroken with Barrett. The guys is so freeking good, there is no denying his natural ability and his will to fight for every ball. I just really really want him to get over his mental problems with scoring. He freezes up, clamps up, not sure what it is. But you can just see him thinking in his head "I'm going to miss" as he's about to shoot from 10 yards out. Yesterday though, he was phenomenal, and if he scores that break away (which he earned by slashing through two guys) then this kid would be good enough for Europe. That's my thought anyways.

[felipe]

Trane, you are deluding yourself if you don't think these boards would have been full of the same shit as it has been the past week if we drew. I'm not saying you in particular would have been spewing the hate, but there are a lot of bandwagon jumpers around that would have spouted the same nonsense.

I respectfully disagree that we have been shit this year; we have gotten better every game - IMO. A couple of chances or ref calls that went the other way in each game and we'd be 6-0. (Not that we'd necesarily deserve to be).

I think the tactics were spot on against Dallas. Vandenberg was largely shackled, and Cronin at right gave Wynne license to get forward when he could - hoping to exploit his opposite numbers (Vandenberg) tendency to go way forward.

Who could have predicted DeRo gifting a chance to Dallas or wynne leaving his arm hanging out? Or Guevera missing a sitter? Switch those around, and thats 4-2; for us, away from home. We basically stifled the best striker in the MLS; if not for the penalty and 'the gift'; that's pretty damn good. And I would venture decision of playing the physicality of Harmse v the positional sense of Velez went a long way in accomplishing that.

Maybe we have been a little of the case of square pegs in round holes, but with a limited squad, you have to give your best guys a role to play within a team concept and hope they can carry it off. I have never heard anyone say that Cronin is best suited to play right mid, but he's done a good job when called upon to negate the direct opposition's threat. You have to match your tactic in consideration to the danger of each and every opposition. There is no 'magic tactic' in real life that'll work against everyone.

I just find that everyone around these boards takes a rather simplistic view of events; and focus on results instead of the little things that make up these results.

I freely admit I could be wrong quite often, but at least i'm not a reactionary to results.

this site used to be excellent to talk about soccer with knowledgaeable people who often had very differing views to mine - which is great - that is what its all about - its good to hear some guy talk sense in a way I haven't looked at -

But lately its gotten bad, but now all of a sudden people are rational again - I hope it continues or we've gone from a great soccer communtiy all the way down to the level of drivel found on big soccer.

[Jack]

Felipe, you make some good points, but I take exception to your generalizations.

[Steve]

I'm personally heartbroken with Barrett. The guys is so freeking good, there is no denying his natural ability and his will to fight for every ball. I just really really want him to get over his mental problems with scoring. He freezes up, clamps up, not sure what it is. But you can just see him thinking in his head "I'm going to miss" as he's about to shoot from 10 yards out. Yesterday though, he was phenomenal, and if he scores that break away (which he earned by slashing through two guys) then this kid would be good enough for Europe. That's my thought anyways.

Thank you for showing some perspective on the situation. Personally, I thought Barrett deserved MOTM and I'm glad he got it. I also thought Serioux had a great game, and he got it for GolTV. I think both of those were the right decision.

I think my feelings for Barrett are the same as yours. I think he's ridiculously talented, and can score when he doesn't think about it (like last year's turn around kick into the top corner). When he thinks about it, he talks himself out of it. I still have hope that he can overcome that, and even if he doesn't score, he can still make a hell of a contribution to a team (like last night). I'm just afraid the fans (and supporters) have already decided Barrett was going to be our scapegoat for this year (you know we always have one). He is the type of player that, no matter how good of a game he had, you can always point to a big miss and say "wow, he sucks". Sorry, but soccer isn't like baseball, where you can put in a designated player to kick the ball for you once you've created the chance. You can't just say "X player would never have missed that shot" because, as often as not, X player would never had had the chance to shoot in the first place! Barrett misses so often per game because he creates so many chances per game, and puts himself into the right place to take advantage.

[Pachuco]

Trane, you are deluding yourself if you don't think these boards would have been full of the same shit as it has been the past week if we drew. I'm not saying you in particular would have been spewing the hate, but there are a lot of bandwagon jumpers around that would have spouted the same nonsense.

I respectfully disagree that we have been shit this year; we have gotten better every game - IMO. A couple of chances or ref calls that went the other way in each game and we'd be 6-0. (Not that we'd necesarily deserve to be).

I think the tactics were spot on against Dallas. Vandenberg was largely shackled, and Cronin at right gave Wynne license to get forward when he could - hoping to exploit his opposite numbers (Vandenberg) tendency to go way forward.

Who could have predicted DeRo gifting a chance to Dallas or wynne leaving his arm hanging out? Or Guevera missing a sitter? Switch those around, and thats 4-2; for us, away from home. We basically stifled the best striker in the MLS; if not for the penalty and 'the gift'; that's pretty damn good. And I would venture decision of playing the physicality of Harmse v the positional sense of Velez went a long way in accomplishing that.

Maybe we have been a little of the case of square pegs in round holes, but with a limited squad, you have to give your best guys a role to play within a team concept and hope they can carry it off. I have never heard anyone say that Cronin is best suited to play right mid, but he's done a good job when called upon to negate the direct opposition's threat. You have to match your tactic in consideration to the danger of each and every opposition. There is no 'magic tactic' in real life that'll work against everyone.

I just find that everyone around these boards takes a rather simplistic view of events; and focus on results instead of the little things that make up these results.

I freely admit I could be wrong quite often, but at least i'm not a reactionary to results.

this site used to be excellent to talk about soccer with knowledgaeable people who often had very differing views to mine - which is great - that is what its all about - its good to hear some guy talk sense in a way I haven't looked at -

But lately its gotten bad, but now all of a sudden people are rational again - I hope it continues or we've gone from a great soccer communtiy all the way down to the level of drivel found on big soccer.

Since I know that you probably think of me as one of those bandwagon jumpers, I'll explain something so you understand where I cam coming from (if you don't, then I'm sure someone else does anyways :D). I personally have a different opinion on how good the team can perform on a consistent basis and how good or bad they have been this year. I also obviously have a different opinion about Carver then the people I would call the always positive people. I haven't changed those opinions because of 1 game either. But I also know that they played a hell of a game last night and it obviously puts people into a different mood. That's not bandwagon jumping, it's just enjoying the sweet victory. I could start a Fire Carver thread today just as easily as I would've 1 week ago (although I usually partake more then start stupid threads). But I won't, 1 because they are coming off of one of their best games I've seen them play, and 2 because people would chew me up for starting a negative thread the day after this game. Just know though, that because I choose to not get into these types of convesations today, doesn't mean I look at this game simply or that I have changed my opinion.

[Cashcleaner]

The biggest factor in the win tonight:

Hustle.

End of story. This team wanted the win. This team closed down. From the defenders right to the forwards. This team tackled. This team played composed.

I like how this team played.

I want to see more of this team.

Please.

Agreed 100%. It's amazing what can be achieved on the pitch when the players want to win. Again, I think we could have fielded a more defensive formation and settled for a 0-0 draw and most people would be fine with that. The fact that we went on the offense and kept the pressure up all game really shows the team's passion to win.

[trane]

Felipe,

No one is suggesting there is one magic formation. That is the point. The formation has to be suited to your players, and to some extend your opposition.

I think the sight still had some excellent talk about footy, the problem people get offended on the mere suggestion that what we are doing is wrong. I think a rational unbiased oberver of last nights game would have said that CArver did the right thing last night, but it was also a sign that he was not doing the right thing prior to last night. He was forcing a system of play that was not suited for our players, and not starting our best 11. Again I do not want to bash Carver after a good showing, but if we continue with this "you see your critics were wrong thread" by game time Sunday it will generate into that. I am not sure how more obvious it could be Carver did what many on these threads, had called on him to do for a while, and it worked. Good for us. Us, meaning the supporters, the team and the managemnt. Lets keep it going.

Felipe, many say, if only this or only that, we would have one this game, or lost that one. The truth is what I and others look at is form, meaning the complete game of the team. Thei form has been worrying to us, because we love this team.

[Darlofletch]

Thank you for showing some perspective on the situation. Personally, I thought Barrett deserved MOTM and I'm glad he got it. I also thought Serioux had a great game, and he got it for GolTV. I think both of those were the right decision.

I think my feelings for Barrett are the same as yours. I think he's ridiculously talented, and can score when he doesn't think about it (like last year's turn around kick into the top corner). When he thinks about it, he talks himself out of it. I still have hope that he can overcome that, and even if he doesn't score, he can still make a hell of a contribution to a team (like last night). I'm just afraid the fans (and supporters) have already decided Barrett was going to be our scapegoat for this year (you know we always have one). He is the type of player that, no matter how good of a game he had, you can always point to a big miss and say "wow, he sucks". Sorry, but soccer isn't like baseball, where you can put in a designated player to kick the ball for you once you've created the chance. You can't just say "X player would never have missed that shot" because, as often as not, X player would never had had the chance to shoot in the first place! Barrett misses so often per game because he creates so many chances per game, and puts himself into the right place to take advantage.

yeah, a lot of people are ready to jump on anything Barrett does wrong and crucify him for it. Whereas Vitti gets barely any criticism despite the amount of times last night he went on a dribble without really having full contro of the ball and thus lost it.

haven't seen enough of Vitti to really form a valid opinion, but right now, I'd have de ro replace him when he comes back and keep Barrett.

[trane]

^ I for one was never on Barrett for his missess, but for how the team looked with him being the lone striker/Centerforward. In a more withdrawn/outside role I think his game will flourish.


I will also have to say this, while missing De Ro is not a good thing, clearly. I do not think that it is unfair to assume that it was De Ro's injury that percipitated the choice of line up last night. Maybe not formation, but certainly line up, do you think that Carver would have started Dichio, if De Ro was not injured, I do not think he would have, he would have used Barret on top. Had he done that the whole thing would not have worked as well. I, and many others, hope that when De Ro returns, Dichio is not relegated to comming of the bench in the dying minutes of the game.

[ensco]

so who comes out of teh starting 11 for dero??

Best eleven on the field!

Keep last night's formation.

Move Robinson back as CB, in place of Velez. I don't care if he doesn't like it, too bad.

Put Guevara beside Cronin. DeRo as AM or libero or whatever the heck you want to call the Gerrard position.

Done.

[felipe]

You are right Jack I did overgeneralise, and I apologise.

The vast majority of the posters here are very good with good intentions - that is what attracts me and keeps me posting - I guess I'm still bitter about the overly negative posts from a select few that have been happening on a regular (spam) basis.

I'm officially over it, now.

[Jack]

You are right Jack I did overgeneralise, and I apologise.

The vast majority of the posters here are very good with good intentions - that is what attracts me and keeps me posting - I guess I'm still bitter about the overly negative posts from a select few that have been happening on a regular (spam) basis.

I'm officially over it, now.
Believe me, I understand your frustration.

It's true, some people have been somewhat overzealous with the negativity lately. I personally have been concerned with the seeming lack of interest from the team in the last couple of games (my perception) and Carver's seeming inability to light a fire under their asses.

But last night we came out hard and we played hard all game. Even late in the game, when the pressure was on, there wasn't the (almost expected) late game choke job. I know it's just one game, but if we can string together a few more like that, then we might just have something good going.

[felipe]

Now that we've made up...I think its a good time to tell you that

You and your perceptions are wrong!

That's better, (I felt so dirty).

But you guys are right, (in a small small way), lets not dwell on the past games and our relative perceptions, we're all here for the same reason; here's something we can all agree on:

up and at them!

KC is going down!

[Jack]

Now that we've made up...I think its a good time to tell you that

You and your perceptions are wrong!

That's better, (I felt so dirty).

But you guys are right, (in a small small way), lets not dwell on the past games and our relative perceptions, we're all here for the same reason; here's something we can all agree on:

up and at them!

KC is going down!
Definitely agree there! :D

[MrHawk]

Believe me, I understand your frustration.

It's true, some people have been somewhat overzealous with the negativity lately. I personally have been concerned with the seeming lack of interest from the team in the last couple of games (my perception) and Carver's seeming inability to light a fire under their asses.

But last night we came out hard and we played hard all game. Even late in the game, when the pressure was on, there wasn't the (almost expected) late game choke job. I know it's just one game, but if we can string together a few more like that, then we might just have something good going.

I was almost waiting for it. Just something out of the blue, stupid play, or a bad call to end it. It didn't happen, we rebounded well from a 3-2 loss, by handing the top team in the league their first loss of the year and getting our first home win and our first clean sheet, and had a great turnout by supporters.

All in all, building from here works better than continuous deconstruction.

[trane]

You are right Jack I did overgeneralise, and I apologise.

The vast majority of the posters here are very good with good intentions - that is what attracts me and keeps me posting - I guess I'm still bitter about the overly negative posts from a select few that have been happening on a regular (spam) basis.

I'm officially over it, now.

When I am mad and concerned, I spam. But I do not think that I was overly negative. But I do need to try not to respond so negatively to other peoples views, even if they are wrong. ;)

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

That was the best footie at BMO for some time if not the best game... Chivas did not look too comfortable in the cool TO weather....Lets hope the team stays on form for Sunday,,,,and thank F**k warmer weather is coming.......well done Reds!!!

[napoli73]

Well i have to admit it was some of the best Football i have seen TFC play and seemed like a total different team. I think we got some great performances and it was nice to see Danny get 90 mins. Cornin had himself a nice game and looked really good playing at that position, Vitti made some plays but still gets himself into trouble trying to do to much...especially when he's outnumbered, great showing regardless. Barrett as i have always said should never play lone striker and it showed last night as he was more effective and still got his share of chances.
I heard the TFC coaching staff say that they adapt their formation as to the team they are facing....I say F**k IT and play this formation and let them adapt to us.

[trane]

^ Yeah, I am always for using the best formation to get the most out of your players, and try to dictate your game. You need to be aware of what the opposition is doing, and address any problems that it may cause you, but ulimately you need to play the game that is best suited for your team.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I love this formation for sure but i guess the only issue is where to put DeRo once hes healthy (this is a discussion being held in the tactical thread)

[Roogsy]

Best eleven on the field!

Keep last night's formation.

Move Robinson back as CB, in place of Velez. I don't care if he doesn't like it, too bad.

Put Guevara beside Cronin. DeRo as AM or libero or whatever the heck you want to call the Gerrard position.

Done.

This is a pretty bad idea.

First...you don't stick Robbo where he doesn't want to go. When a player is not happy about where he plays, he isn't very good at it.

Second...Robbo did not make a very good CB when he played in that position temporarily. I don't know what it is about DMs that move back, but they tend to cause more fouls than a natural CB. And that would especially be true about Robbo and some of his wild tackles.

Third, I like the pairing of Cronin and Robbo in midfield. Reminds me of Robbo and Edu. And if you remember, when we had that setup, our defending was solid. Our first year in the league, our problems were mental and offensive, not our defending. That is how BMO Field became a fortress. When we lost Edu...we lost that edge.

[Petor]

Sorry about going off in a tangent here but this is the post game thread...

Did anyone but me notice that nobody but Frei(like gk always do) wore gloves on TFC?
I was surprised to see him sucking his bare thumb after scoring the goal.
It wasn't below freezing but it was quite chilly, I guess they are trying real hard to be(fit in) on a Canadian team. :canada:

Things like that make me like this team even more.
Go TFC! :)

[trane]

This is a pretty bad idea.

First...you don't stick Robbo where he doesn't want to go. When a player is not happy about where he plays, he isn't very good at it.

Second...Robbo did not make a very good CB when he played in that position temporarily. I don't know what it is about DMs that move back, but they tend to cause more fouls than a natural CB. And that would especially be true about Robbo and some of his wild tackles.

Third, I like the pairing of Cronin and Robbo in midfield. Reminds me of Robbo and Edu. And if you remember, when we had that setup, our defending was solid. Our first year in the league, our problems were mental and offensive, not our defending. That is how BMO Field became a fortress. When we lost Edu...we lost that edge.

Agreed.

[ensco]

This is a pretty bad idea.

First...you don't stick Robbo where he doesn't want to go. When a player is not happy about where he plays, he isn't very good at it.

Second...Robbo did not make a very good CB when he played in that position temporarily. I don't know what it is about DMs that move back, but they tend to cause more fouls than a natural CB. And that would especially be true about Robbo and some of his wild tackles.

Third, I like the pairing of Cronin and Robbo in midfield. Reminds me of Robbo and Edu. And if you remember, when we had that setup, our defending was solid. Our first year in the league, our problems were mental and offensive, not our defending. That is how BMO Field became a fortress. When we lost Edu...we lost that edge.

One: this isn't high school. He should be glad to start wherever he's most needed. I'd bet he'd feel that way.

Two: DM's that move back tend not to work out? Where is this coming from? It depends. Serioux seems to have made the switch pretty well

Three: No formation is optimal. There's been too much in terms of intellectual gymnastics on this team. What I don't want is Velez or Harmse on the field, while a much better player sits. There's been waaaay too much of that in TFC's short history. I'm tired of it.