Carver: job on the line

[Oldtimer]

But all that hard work was for naught when referee Tim Weyland ruled that defender Marvell Wynne handled the ball inside the box with just seven minutes left to play.
"When your job is threatened, and on the line, because of decisions like that, then I've got to say something," said Carver after Kenny Cooper's spot kick, his second goal of the game, gave FC Dallas its first win of the season. "I'm having a go at the referee today."


http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090420&content_id=241773&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

There is something behind this outburst...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

If its true, I wonder who they have as a replacement, im sure its just him saying that he feels like his job is threatened from play like this

[Oldtimer]

I'm just saying this seems to show he is not feeling too secure right now.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think they are well aware of the actions that will be taken if the season does not improve.

[ilikemusic]

I'm just saying this seems to show he is not feeling too secure right now.

Well, its not like hes got any reason he should feel secure.

Unless of course him and Mo are just having a laugh duping all these stupid Canadians who seem to think 'British accent = great football mind'.

[BleedRed]

What the fuck is Carver thinking...this man is a joke. Seriously...blaming it on the refs? Why not blame it on his total lack of knowledge and inability to do anything behind he bench for the Reds. Although the referee wasn't the greatest, the handball was not some crazy, insane call that would only have been made in the MLS. Those calls have been given in every league around the world including the elite leagues in Europe. TFC shouldn't be struggling to beat one of the worst teams in the league. It's just a disgrace to see Carver saying those kind of things. Trying to cover his own arse like a child in the playground. Rubbish!

[Alarius]

The guy is all talk.. as a coach he sucks.. maybe he should apply as a PR guy.

[wzhxvy]

I do think Carver has been effective but I do believe he is a geniunely good guy, which makes me feel for him. However, if anyone here thinks that Mo will not throw him under the bus...think again. Mo knows that his job is threatened and the best way to buy time to continue his reign as "pimp supreme with a 5 year plan" is to fire the coach. I am sure Carver knows that.

[BleedRed]

This thread was about Carver so I decided to keep it strictly on him....don't even get me started on RatFuck Trader Mo...Total farce. All the man has is a scottish accent and shitfuck attitude.

[Hitcho]

The run of 5 home games in the next 6 matches is definitely going to be key for Carver, if things stay as they are the pressure will reach boiling point.

That said, it's not just down to him. On paper the team looks great (save one of our CB positions) but they are just not playing to their potential. The coach has to take some of the blame for that, but the players must also know they are not doing well enough. The Seattle game was a nightmare, and there's no way all the individual poor performances can be placed on Carver's head.

[Darlofletch]

Posted this in other thread but seems to fit better here.

Positives about Carver from yesterday's game, and yes, there's a bit of straw clutching going on here, but they're all valid points.

1- The first 15-20 minutes or so (presumbaly Carver's plan A)we played alright, were keeping possession and created good chances that were wasted.
2- Our first goal was some kind of trick corner play straight for the training ground, presumably choreographed by Carver.
3- After half time, we played better, Presumably inspired by Carver.
4- When we were down 2-1 and needing to change things up and take chances, he was ready to bring Velez on, and go 3-5-2 with wynne and Brennan pushed further forward. This would be evidence of changing things around and adapting to the situation which people say he can't do.
5- Then we scored so the situation changed and he again adapted by not going to the more risky option and sticking with the formation that was working.
6- After they scored their 3rd, he did try substitutions to give us a better chance of scoring.

Is everything perfect and problem free? absolutely not. Should Carver be fired? maybe. Does it seem like he'd be better as an assistant coach than as the main man? yep.

But is he the clueless clown he gets portrayed as here? nope.

[Hitcho]

I'm not sure what people perceive Mo's role to be, but for me he brought in some great players in the off season for some seriously brilliant trades, played the draft like a fiddle and has stock piled allocation money like a genius. He's not the coach and he can't bring in a DP without MLSE giving him the cash. SO what more do people really want from him?

De Rosario
Serioux
Vitti
Frei
Cronin
OBW
Robbo re-signed for 2 years

There's no other team in the league that has an off-season acquisition list as good as ours, and we hardly gave up anything in return.

EDIT - before anyone says it, Seattle don't count because they're an expansion team...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

some people just have a hate on for mo.

I do want to see more from Carver, i had higher hopes for this season adn theres still time for him to pull it out. I do think Mo is to blame as well and if we dont see playoffs Mos gotta go too. Im just scared we will go down a level in management, thats another concern for another time

[ilikemusic]

I'm not sure what people perceive Mo's role to be, but for me he brought in some great players in the off season for some seriously brilliant trades, played the draft like a fiddle and has stock piled allocation money like a genius. He's not the coach and he can't bring in a DP without MLSE giving him the cash. SO what more do people really want from him?

De Rosario
Serioux
Vitti
Frei
Cronin
OBW
Robbo re-signed for 2 years

There's no other team in the league that has an off-season acquisition list as good as ours, and we hardly gave up anything in return.

If only we didnt have to play the games, right?

[wzhxvy]

Carver is accountable, no question. But please do not give credit to Mo for DeRo, he was gifted, lets be honest. He demanded to come back, and hence the trade.

I do agree that Mo does well with selecting young talent. However the fiasco on the Marshall trade, inability to get a CB and a DP, is all on MO. Please read my post...Carver will be thrown under the bus when MO feels the heat. I will bet on that.

[Carter]

some people just have a hate on for mo.

I do want to see more from Carver, i had higher hopes for this season adn theres still time for him to pull it out. I do think Mo is to blame as well and if we dont see playoffs Mos gotta go too. Im just scared we will go down a level in management, thats another concern for another time

Naw this gives them something else to bitch about when they don't get what they want next year.

[LucaGol]

Naw this gives them something else to bitch about when they don't get what they want next year.

Doubt it

[Mikey]

Sadly, I think Carver will be strung along until end of season, and if let go, used as a deflection at that time from "where's the DP?".
Not entirely sure everyone would fall for the imminent dp rumours at season renewal time again this year like they did last year, but they might fall for "world class manager imminent" rumours instead.

Gotta get the saps to plunk down early with another 30% hike in season ticket prices.....

[Hitcho]

If only we didnt have to play the games, right?

er, what?

[Carter]

Doubt it

Maybe we should just bench Carver for a bit, and have Cummings take over, maybe giving him 2 games on the bench will make his head clear, and see the light..

[Hitcho]

Carver is accountable, no question. But please do not give credit to Mo for DeRo, he was gifted, lets be honest. He demanded to come back, and hence the trade.

I do agree that Mo does well with selecting young talent. However the fiasco on the Marshall trade, inability to get a CB and a DP, is all on MO. Please read my post...Carver will be thrown under the bus when MO feels the heat. I will bet on that.

How is not getting a DP on Mo? It's not like MLSE have come out and said "we've given Mo a blank cheque to get us a DP, and we're excited to see who he brings in". Who's the more likely culprit - the GM who would love to see a DP come in or a corporation famous for being tight arsed fuckers when there's a global credit cruch going on? There's no basis at all for pinning the lack of DP on Mo.

besides which, a DP chews up a huge chunk of your salary cap so it;s questionable if there's even any benefit to it. i'd rather have a stronger squad frankly. De Ro is injured so now we can bring in Vitti. If we had a DP, and he got injured, there'd be no-one on the bench and we'd be fucked.

The CB situation is probably on Mo, I agree. The word is Mo had a CB lined up and got screwed at the last minute, but that's still on his plate. Marshall should not have been traded until the other guy was on board. But, if the Ives/Molinaro rumours are true about an incoming CB who is "a big name for MLS" then Mo has even got that one nailed down, and added to the rest of the off season deals, he's done just about everything it's possible to do.

[wzhxvy]

Hitcho, I thought MLSE got approval from the board to get a DP. Do you remember that ? But to be honest, there is so much BS that goes around this team about who is doing what and what they are about to bring, that I lost track. Maybe Mo did not have approval to get a DP. But if he did, which I think he did, he has not been successful in getting a DP.

[Hitcho]

As for Carver, you don't fire your coach after a few bad results, especially when everyone was glowing after our first two results. There's plenty of time left and I for one back him to turn things around.

IN CARVER WE TRUST

[ilikemusic]

er, what?

To use a cliche as old as sports, the games arent played on paper.

The additions look great on paper. Unfortunately, with a nearly full compliment of healthy players, we have managed one victory.

[ilikemusic]

As for Carver, you don't fire your coach after a few bad results, especially when everyone was glowing after our first two results. There's plenty of time left and I for one back him to turn things around.

IN CARVER WE TRUST

So last season doesnt count? And the last 3 games dont count? You only want to consider the first two games of this season?

Well, I can see you are one of the 'In Carver We Trust' sheep who just want a slogan so there isnt much debate to be had here.

[Hitcho]

Hitcho, I thought MLSE got approval from the board to get a DP. Do you remember that ? But to be honest, there is so much BS that goes around this team about who is doing what and what they are about to bring, that I lost track. Maybe Mo did not have approval to get a DP. But if he did, which I think he did, he has not been successful in getting a DP.

wzhxvy - dude, that's a hell of a name to type out! i do remember a rumour to that effect now you mention it, but how concrete it was I don't know. from what I recall there was an MLSe board meeting and everyone was expecting DP approval confirmation to come out of that board meeting, but there was never any reliable confirmation it did. So it may be Mo was given some kind of sign off and has failed to deliver, but even so we don't know if he was only given provisional sign off (ie, bring us some names and salaries and we'll think about it) or given sign off but with a limited budget not big enough to secure a name worthy of the money, etc. I guess my point is, there's just not enough info to skewer Mo on the DP issue. I'd skewer MLSE first, although I'd still rather have greater squad depth than one really great player and not much else.

[Hitcho]

To use a cliche as old as sports, the games arent played on paper.

The additions look great on paper. Unfortunately, with a nearly full compliment of healthy players, we have managed one victory.

Ah, gotcha. Agreed with what you say in this post. Where I think we disgaree is how quickly we react to a few bad results by firing the coach.

[GBV]

The guy is all talk.. as a coach he sucks.. maybe he should apply as a PR guy.

nah...he's too honest.

[Dbl_D]

just want to say.... to all you complainers

"ARE YOU A LEAF FAN IN DISGUISE"


year three for mo and a little over a year for carver and your on these guys... takes time to build... y've been waiting 40 freak'n years and you still watch the leafs wait at least 4 for the TFC...

I'm barfing in my breakfast reading this ... mopes

the ref'n is shit in this league... and im not just saying it in regards to TFC ... watching the sounders / chivas game the other day it was same old crap ref'n...

[MUFC_Niagara]

This thread was about Carver so I decided to keep it strictly on him....don't even get me started on RatFuck Trader Mo...Total farce. All the man has is a scottish accent and shitfuck attitude.

Very insightful comment. These are the kind of posts that make this board an excellent place to visit. If only more people would post constructive critism like this we'd be in business!

[LucaGol]

nah...he's too honest.

Maybe he should be honest with himself.

Did he ever stop and think that maybe his constant harassment of the officiating is causing them to target our team even more?

Just leave it be John. Every team in the league is playing with these refs. Deal with it already.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

As for Carver, you don't fire your coach after a few bad results, especially when everyone was glowing after our first two results. There's plenty of time left and I for one back him to turn things around.

IN CARVER WE TRUST


Carver is the right man for the job...and the 5 year plan must be followed through then decide Carver's and Mo's fate then..not i minute before. When they signed DeRo fans were all excited and talking playoffs/MLS cup, well it seem DeRo is not the answer 1 goal in 5 games?? He may still
bag a dozen or so but dont count on it...We need a pure striker, a quality
defender ( Tyronne come back all is forgiven) and another midfield player.
We have 3 keepers ( Frei...Keep.......Sutton and Edwards tradeable if it means getting help in the other positions.....

[Hitcho]

So last season doesnt count? And the last 3 games dont count? You only want to consider the first two games of this season?

Well, I can see you are one of the 'In Carver We Trust' sheep who just want a slogan so there isnt much debate to be had here.

Easy there big fella. All I said was we had a couple of good result followed by a few bad ones, and with so much of the season left to go it's a bit soon to start screaming for the coach's head. I agree the last few results have been crap and in a couple of those games we played like crap. I am not exonerating that based on an away win in Kansas. All I am doing is advocating a bit more patience before taking drastic action. In this league, you can turn your season around quite dramatically in a very short space of time. We have the players to do that and a coach with top level experience. Whereas if we did fire Carver now, we'd need a complete overhaul of the backroom staff and probably to some degree the playing staff. So before we do that, let;s just wait a bit longer.

That's my opinion, and it's a fair one, so there's no need to go chucking semi-abusive lables around. Otherwise, I might label you a panic mongering idiot who can't hold onto his wad for more than a couple of games. Clearly opinion is split on Carver right now, but in my book it's more productive to get behind the team and the coach and hope they can turn things around, certainly at this early stage of the season. if it stays this way without changing then there will clearly come a time when Carver's position becomes untenable, but I don't think we're there yet.

As for last season, we started with a bollocks squad and Carver knew nothing about MLS. That's not an excuse, but it does provide compelling reasons for giving the guy a bit more time. How much more time is where you and I (and others) seem to differ, as I said above.

[rocker]

Maybe he should be honest with himself.

Did he ever stop and think that maybe his constant harassment of the officiating is causing them to target our team even more?.

it can't hurt our team, since every coach in MLS harasses the refs.

You should have heard Jason Kreis of RSL last year... he even got suspended for it.

[LucaGol]

it can't hurt our team, since every coach in MLS harasses the refs.

You should have heard Jason Kreis of RSL last year... he even got suspended for it.

I think we both agree that JC takes complaining to a different level.

I mean he's practically in the 4th official's ear the entire game.

Kreis lost it that one time. JC's always losing his shit.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I think we both agree that JC takes complaining to a different level.

I mean he's practically in the 4th official's ear the entire game.

Kreis lost it that one time. JC's always losing his shit.


Maybe hes used to better officials then the lot we had last night,

MLS needs to improve the standard of officals

[LucaGol]

Maybe hes used to better officials then the lot we had last night,

MLS needs to improve the standard of officals

People complain about reffing after World Cup and Champions League finals .... granted MLS reffing is sub-par ... but its the same tune over and over again.

Just forget about it and concentrate on improving the team's horrendous cohesion issues. Carver's a broken record. You have to earn your luck, so they say. Maybe if we had more meaningful possession in the final third of the field we'd have more penalty decisions go in our favour.

Carver is starting to get desperate, and it's starting to show.

He has no answers, and is getting outclassed and outcoached by managers who I'm sure he sees as "beneath" him.

Oh well, Shearer and Coca-Cola Championship awaits ... ;)

[Walnut]

Carver is the right man for the job...and the 5 year plan must be followed through then decide Carver's and Mo's fate then..not i minute before.

If at the end of the 5-year plan we are still shit, and Mo & John are fired, and new management are brought in -- and they want another 5-years to repair the damage done by the previous 5-year plan. I say no way -- I give Mo & John until the end of the week. If we get done by Chivas and KC at home, then it is a done deal for the pair with a history of terrible management.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Too extreme especially as who will replace them?
Should we go without a GM and a head coach?
You want Dasovic coaching our first team?

[LucaGol]

If at the end of the 5-year plan we are still shit, and Mo & John are fired, and new management are brought in -- and they want another 5-years to repair the damage done by the previous 5-year plan. I say no way -- I give Mo & John until the end of the week. If we get done by Chivas and KC at home, then it is a done deal for the pair with a history of terrible management.

The only real issue that Im genuinely concerned about is that after Mo Johnston, there is really no one else to steer the ship in this organization.

Anselmi and co. rely on him in totality.

If they let Mo Johnston and John Carver go, Im afraid there is a lack of candidates that can successfully guide an MLS franchise to success. (Or perhaps there are and just my lack of knowledge in this particular area)

Which means MLSE must do some digging of their own. I think they probably know that Carver and Johnston must go now (or they will soon) ... but are just afraid that they don't know what move to make next of who to entrust the team to.

I think Jason Bent could be given a shout for at least asst. coach .... but as to who would take over Mo Johnston's duties, I have not one idea.

[Stilts]

People expect Carver to win with the garbage team he has to work with?

I wonder how many coach's TFC will go through before they realize it's the talentless and over-the-hill players (Dero) we have that are the problem.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

If at the end of the 5-year plan we are still shit, and Mo & John are fired, and new management are brought in -- and they want another 5-years to repair the damage done by the previous 5-year plan. I say no way -- I give Mo & John until the end of the week. If we get done by Chivas and KC at home, then it is a done deal for the pair with a history of terrible management.


Its funny Most experts feel Mo won this years Superdraft, so hows that
terrible management? Remember it not easy getting athletes from other countries to come to Canada...Most would prefer to head to the USA first, thats what Mo is up against..The Jays and Raptors cant get real
talent to come up here as well>then there is the Salary cap issue, you
are really going to find it hard to get decent players with that. The DP
issue has been done to death...there is no 100% that a DP would help
us improve...improving a 3rd year club takes time...lets hope there
is no more talk of playoffs/mls cup for a while at least, this team needs
to just focus on game by game.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

People expect Carver to win with the garbage team he has to work with?

I wonder how many coach's TFC will go through before they realize it's the talentless and over-the-hill players (Dero) we have that are the problem.


DeRo should have never been brought here...the club caved to the pressures of the supporters and that cant be good...Now we have
DeRo and over aged over rated player now banged up...Keeping
Jullius James would have been better for the club.

[LucaGol]

At this point, I'd feel more comfortable with Mo on the bench. ... and that's not saying much.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

wow, you continue to amaze me Mighty_Torontofc_2008

[Juanito]

I think we should pass judgement at the end of the season.

However, I feel like someone has deflated my balloon because this team is not performing as well as I thought they would.

Crying out for his head won't do anything, unless we have somebody in mind to replace him.

[Aroundtheworld]

As for Carver, you don't fire your coach after a few bad results, especially when everyone was glowing after our first two results. There's plenty of time left and I for one back him to turn things around.

IN CARVER WE TRUST

The team is on pace to do worst than last year.

It's not just bad results, it's bad play that will rarely get good results in the future.

Fire Carver!

[Walnut]

The only real issue that Im genuinely concerned about is that after Mo Johnston, there is really no one else to steer the ship in this organization.

Anselmi and co. rely on him in totality.

If they let Mo Johnston and John Carver go, Im afraid there is a lack of candidates that can successfully guide an MLS franchise to success. (Or perhaps there are and just my lack of knowledge in this particular area)

Which means MLSE must do some digging of their own. I think they probably know that Carver and Johnston must go now (or they will soon) ... but are just afraid that they don't know what move to make next of who to entrust the team to.

I think Jason Bent could be given a shout for at least asst. coach .... but as to who would take over Mo Johnston's duties, I have not one idea.

Perhaps, as many people have said before, MLSE do not care about winning, as long as the stadium is full, lots of food and beer is sold, and there is a loooong waiting list for tickets.

We should take a page out of the books of the Milan ultras -- and let them know just how unhappy we are with OUR teams lack of progress.

[LucaGol]

I think we should pass judgement at the end of the season.

However, I feel like someone has deflated my balloon because this team is not performing as well as I thought they would.

Crying out for his head won't do anything, unless we have somebody in mind to replace him.

There's a reason why Carver said what he did at the press conference yesterday.

I feel as if Mo is ruthless ... if he fears his own job is in danger because JC is underperforming as a coach, he'll cut him loose. It'll be about survival for MoJo; dog-eat-dog.

I think JC's head is more on the chopping block than we think.

[drewski]

i hope not, I haven't' even got my In Carver We Trust scarf yet :(

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

The team is on pace to do worst than last year.

It's not just bad results, it's bad play that will rarely get good results in the future.

Fire Carver!

thats not the answer....patience and calm is needed...we are only 5 games into the season...out of 30 ..a long ways to go yet...look if the Leafs fired a coach after every losing season they would a long list of ex Leaf coaches.Give the management time the 5 yrs the wanted to build a club the right way.

[Brooker]

rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble

[S_D]

The only real issue that Im genuinely concerned about is that after Mo Johnston, there is really no one else to steer the ship in this organization.

Anselmi and co. rely on him in totality.

If they let Mo Johnston and John Carver go, Im afraid there is a lack of candidates that can successfully guide an MLS franchise to success. (Or perhaps there are and just my lack of knowledge in this particular area)

Which means MLSE must do some digging of their own. I think they probably know that Carver and Johnston must go now (or they will soon) ... but are just afraid that they don't know what move to make next of who to entrust the team to.

I think Jason Bent could be given a shout for at least asst. coach .... but as to who would take over Mo Johnston's duties, I have not one idea.

This is really a problem for any team in the MLS, and I am sure one that they are thinking about. With all of the messed up MLS rules, you have to have someone in the GM position who knows them. And all of the MLS teams know this, so it would be in their best interests to refuse permission to talk to other GM's, assistant GM's (if there are any) and coaches. Coaching assistants are a possibility of course.

[LucaGol]

This is really a problem for any team in the MLS, and I am sure one that they are thinking about. With all of the messed up MLS rules, you have to have someone in the GM position who knows them. And all of the MLS teams know this, so it would be in their best interests to refuse permission to talk to other GM's, assistant GM's (if there are any) and coaches. Coaching assistants are a possibility of course.

Just like the NHL has "capologist" TFC should hire a permanent "MLS-ologist" so to speak.

Someone not necessarily involved in the day-to-day operations of the team, but simply an advisor to the man who is.

[jloome]

Carver is accountable, no question. But please do not give credit to Mo for DeRo, he was gifted, lets be honest. He demanded to come back, and hence the trade.

I do agree that Mo does well with selecting young talent. However the fiasco on the Marshall trade, inability to get a CB and a DP, is all on MO. Please read my post...Carver will be thrown under the bus when MO feels the heat. I will bet on that.

You got that right.

[Technorgasm]

Fuck off.


In Carver I trust.

-

[LucaGol]

Fuck off.


JC's all red Army??

Long term success in any league needs stability.

way to throw your leaders under the bus.




FUCK OFF.








In Carver I trust.

-


Great, thanks.

Sure, we'll be successful long-term .... successful at achieving mediocrity and playing attrociously unattractive and just plain bad soccer (for MLS standards) in the process. Can't wait. Sign me up.

[jloome]

At this point, I'd feel more comfortable with Mo on the bench. ... and that's not saying much.

Given that it was frequently discussed amongst people in the league that Mo was horribly out of his depth coaching his first year, both tactically and in terms of man management, I'd have to disagree with that.

In fact, I think Carver underestimated coming here how little support he'd get in key positions. No quality CB yet?(And until he's had more than two competent games and can marshall the back line, Serioux doesn't qualify.)
No proven finisher up top? Utterly bankrupt wing play?

We have personnel issues, first and foremost, and that's up to MO.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'm becoming disillusioned with the play of our team in general. Not sure who I would shoulder with the blame yet.

Crying out for Carver's head is just too easy. He makes some suspect substitution decisions, but those decisions usually come after 45-60 minutes of shitty play from our team. And I don't know if the problem is a bad strategy, or bad players not executing Carver's strategy.

I will say I wasn't impressed with Carver's post-game interview last night, where he said we "dominated" the second half, and blamed the referees for everything. We did okay in the second half, but all it did was get us back to even ground, after shitting the bed in the first half AGAIN. And while that penalty robbed us of a point, it should be the two goals that went in before that one, that concerns him.

There's still lots of time to turn this season around, though, and I'm willing to give the team another 8-10 games to show us that they were just starting out flatfooted. Beyond that, if things haven't improved, then personnel changes need to be made.

I'm a really patient supporter, as long as the team is clearly getting BETTER. So far at this early point of the season, the team has not looked better. And someone - be it players, coaches, managers, or some combination of the three - will have to own up to that, if it doesn't improve.

- Scott

[Carter]

Fuck off.


In Carver I trust.

-

As do i my brother as do i.

WALK ON!!

[Walnut]

thats not the answer....patience and calm is needed...we are only 5 games into the season...out of 30 ..a long ways to go yet...look if the Leafs fired a coach after every losing season they would a long list of ex Leaf coaches.Give the management time the 5 yrs the wanted to build a club the right way.

You are quite right -- we should follow the Leaf's management model, and try to emulate the recent and glorious successes that it has brought to that club :D

[Shakes McQueen]

The team is on pace to do worst than last year.

It's not just bad results, it's bad play that will rarely get good results in the future.

Fire Carver!

On pace? It's been five games - don't start about what we are on "pace" for. You can't possibly extrapolate our entire season from such a small sample size of matches. Even quality of play varies over the course of a season - remember our great start last season? Remember how it all went to hell in the summer?

- Scott

[Dirk Diggler]

Carver has given me exactly zero reasons to gain my trust.

And btw, Mo was absolutely given the green-light to go ahead and sign a DP. It was on the news. I don't know why people lie to make him look better. There is no one but Mo to blame for our lack of a DP ... not that I care about it anymore since a DP striker would still leave a huge hole in our backline named Harmse and all sorts of other fundamental problems plaguing the team right now.

[Cashcleaner]

I do think Carver has been effective but I do believe he is a geniunely good guy, which makes me feel for him. However, if anyone here thinks that Mo will not throw him under the bus...think again. Mo knows that his job is threatened and the best way to buy time to continue his reign as "pimp supreme with a 5 year plan" is to fire the coach. I am sure Carver knows that.

Definitely not beyond the realm of possibility. Maybe the real question should be who are we better of keeping - Mo or Carver? And why specifically?

[Shakes McQueen]

You are quite right -- we should follow the Leaf's management model, and try to emulate the recent and glorious successes that it has brought to that club :D

All of the "lol 40 years no cup" bullshit aside, prior to the lockout the Leafs actually were regular playoff contenders.

In the past several seasons though, the coaching and player turnover has been extremely high, and the Leafs have seen many of their players - and even coaches - move on to other teams, and do quite well

This idea that the Maple Leafs have been really bad for a long time, is just a stupid myth perpetrated by idiots who like to laugh at the Maple Leafs.

So in that sense, your sarcastic message above is ironically quite prescient. Lets do what the Leafs do, and blindly run players and management out of town, instead of identifying and addressing our real problems. In the Leafs' case, those real problems were bad drafting, bad scouting, and bad trading.

- Scott

[bangersandmash]

As somebody pointed out earlier, the team plays well when they're fresh out of the dressing room, be it the start of the game or after the half. Clearly he can get the team to produce when his voice is fresh in their heads. There should be a player on the field whose job is to keep the team focused, alert on on the game plan. Perhaps we could call this player a "captain" or something.

[DangerRed]

Great, thanks.

Sure, we'll be successful long-term .... successful at achieving mediocrity and playing attrociously unattractive and just plain bad soccer (for MLS standards) in the process. Can't wait. Sign me up.

Dude, why do you even post on here? Every single day I see another of your posts, each more depressing and sarcastic than the last. I guess you think part of being a fan is being a whiny bitch, but I'm glad I'm not in your section.

Win or lose, these guys are great fun to watch. Love em, even if KC is the only win they get all season.

[Walnut]

Definitely not beyond the realm of possibility. Maybe the real question should be who are we better of keeping - Mo or Carver? And why specifically?

The biggest problem with Carver is he has no management history of being a winner -- so he can only guess at what it takes to build and motivate a winning team.

There is a problem with the evolution of TFC. We started as a shit team with phenomenal support, whereas we should have started as a shit team with no support. As the team grew, and got better, people would become interested in them, and supported them. The flip side to this is, we have furnished MLSE with a lot of money, which should be reinvested into the club, to ensure the loyal and devoted fans are kept happy. That has not happened. Part of the investment in the club, should have been sourcing and hiring a top knotch manager to build a team worthy of the support. Instead, MLSE hired John Carver, and we got what THEY paid for.

John doesn't have it in him to win. You can let him have a 5-year plan, or a 10-year plan, but he will blame the refs, or claim we dominated play, and we will still be as good as he is.

When we won 3-2 against KC, it reminded me of the saying 'even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.'

[Nomad]

Win or lose, these guys are great fun to watch. Love em, even if KC is the only win they get all season.

You're kidding me, right?

[Cashcleaner]

Hold on a second...

What's with this 5-Year Plan anyway? I keep seeing it pop up in these sort of threads all the time, but I personally don't recall anyone from the club mentioning such a thing.

Has this 5-Year Plan been fabricated by supporters here on the boards or what's the deal?

[DangerRed]

Oh, and here's a bit of Mo Jo history for everyone:

"Johnston retired after the 2001 season, and from 2003 to 2005 was an assistant coach to Bob Bradley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Bradley) for the MetroStars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetroStars). After Bradley was fired with three games left in the 2005 season, Johnston was named interim head coach. He led the team to the playoffs and was promoted to the full-time position with re-branded Red Bull New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_New_York) after the season. On June 27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_27), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006), after a 2-3-7 start to the 2006 season, Johnston was fired."

That means Carver getting the axe fairly soon isn't outside the realm of possibility. We're already at 1-2-2.

[Northern Soul]

I think we need to address some positions...and soon. We have Edwards/Sutton who we don't need both of. Why do we need 3 keepers? We have Guevara who has never shown the heart he has for Honduras when wearing a TFC shirt. I say trade him.

Trade these assets for a CB and competent winger. Cronin isn't a winger, and as well as Ibrahim has played, he certainly isn't a game-changer.

We can drop DeRo back into Guevara's midfield role and play Dichio & Vitti/Barrett (if necessary) up front.

[Shakes McQueen]

When we won 3-2 against KC, it reminded me of the saying 'even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.'

And this is a problem some of you have. You just see the negative in every result.

We played really well in KC, and could have won that game by a huge margin, if not for our finishing. The defense bent, but it didn't break, save for two ranged rockets from Davy Arnaud, that were about 25 yards out, and were perfectly blasted into the top corner.

We didn't look like "blind squirrels" getting lucky, on that night. We looked like a formidable offensive team with a suspect - but not disastrous - defense. Basically, we looked like exactly the kind of team many of us were expecting going into this season.

Since then, we have looked like blind squirrels.

- Scott

[ricciboy]

heart break lose tho

[Walnut]

All of the "lol 40 years no cup" bullshit aside, prior to the lockout the Leafs actually were regular playoff contenders.

In the past several seasons though, the coaching and player turnover has been extremely high, and the Leafs have seen many of their players - and even coaches - move on to other teams, and do quite well

This idea that the Maple Leafs have been really bad for a long time, is just a stupid myth perpetrated by idiots who like to laugh at the Maple Leafs.

So in that sense, your sarcastic message above is ironically quite prescient. Lets do what the Leafs do, and blindly run players and management out of town, instead of identifying and addressing our real problems. In the Leafs' case, those real problems were bad drafting, bad scouting, and bad trading.

- Scott

Okay -- what have the Leaf's won in say, the last 20 years...?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

And this is a problem some of you have. You just see the negative in every result.

We played really well in KC, and could have won that game by a huge margin, if not for our finishing. The defense bent, but it didn't break, save for two ranged rockets from Davy Arnaud, that were about 25 yards out, and were perfectly blasted into the top corner.

We didn't look like "blind squirrels" getting lucky, on that night. We looked like a formidable offensive team with a suspect - but not disastrous - defense. Basically, we looked like exactly the kind of team many of us were expecting going into this season.

Since then, we have looked like blind squirrels.

- Scott

Seriously...Scott wake UP!!! they are playing like SHIT!! Just admit it and stop lying to yourself!!

Yeah maybe in a month or so they might play a whole lot better, but right now they are GARBAGE!!!

[Shakes McQueen]

Okay -- what have the Leaf's won in say, the last 20 years...?

...what? I said the Leafs were regular playoff contenders. I didn't say they won the Stanley Cup. The Leafs have been a GOOD team many times in the last 40 years, they just haven't been the BEST team in the NHL, in over 40 years.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Seriously...Scott wake UP!!! they are playing like SHIT!! Just admit it and stop lying to yourself!!

Yeah maybe in a month or so they might play a whole lot better, but right now they are GARBAGE!!!

Again... what? Look at my post you quoted. I said we played well in our first game this season, and I then went on to say that we have played like shit ever since. What the hell am I lying to myself about?

Good lord, man.

- Scott

[Walnut]

And this is a problem some of you have. You just see the negative in every result.

We played really well in KC, and could have won that game by a huge margin, if not for our finishing. The defense bent, but it didn't break, save for two ranged rockets from Davy Arnaud, that were about 25 yards out, and were perfectly blasted into the top corner.

We didn't look like "blind squirrels" getting lucky, on that night. We looked like a formidable offensive team with a suspect - but not disastrous - defense. Basically, we looked like exactly the kind of team many of us were expecting going into this season.

Since then, we have looked like blind squirrels.

- Scott

Scott -- Hence the blind squirrel analogy (we won, and now we cannot win). I would like nothing more than to be a gloating, very happy TFC fan -- who adores his team, and enjoys them playing entertaining, compelling, attacking football.

Part of being a fan of any team is to demand results, and to no blindly shower them with adoration. We should, and must demand results EVERY game, and any talk of a long-term plan is just nonsense. John Carver has had a very fair shake of the stick, and he just is not good enough himself to take the team to a higher level. The owners, management, and players of TFC are answerable to us, the people who allow there to be a TFC.

[Carter]

Scott -- Hence the blind squirrel analogy (we won, and now we cannot win). I would like nothing more than to be a gloating, very happy TFC fan -- who adores his team, and enjoys them playing entertaining, compelling, attacking football.

Part of being a fan of any team is to demand results, and to no blindly shower them with adoration. We should, and must demand results EVERY game, and any talk of a long-term plan is just nonsense. John Carver has had a very fair shake of the stick, and he just is not good enough himself to take the team to a higher level. The owners, management, and players of TFC are answerable to us, the people who allow there to be a TFC.

But who can we pick up to coach this team? Dale Mitchell?


Which is MLSE, thank you MLSE.. I don't see you forking out 40 million for just a franchise fee.

[Oldtimer]

The key point is that Carver himself feels that his job is in jeapordy, more than whether we like/dislike his tactics.

We know that Mo is ruthless, and wouldn't hesitate to throw Carver under the bus.

Ask Serioux. Ask any of the GMs taken by him in a trade.

[nascarguy]

At this point, I'd feel more comfortable with Mo on the bench. ... and that's not saying much.
what are you smoking mo suck.
jc is better on the bench.

[Walnut]

...what? I said the Leafs were regular playoff contenders. I didn't say they won the Stanley Cup. The Leafs have been a GOOD team many times in the last 40 years, they just haven't been the BEST team in the NHL, in over 40 years.

- Scott

So the sum of the give it time approach is not winning anything...?

Okay, you got me, we should give it some time -- and perhaps we can win nothing in the future, just as we have won nothing in the past.

[Phil]

The key point is that Carver himself feels that his job is in jeapordy, more than whether we like/dislike his tactics.

We know that Mo is ruthless, and wouldn't hesitate to throw Carver under the bus.

Ask Serioux. Ask any of the GMs taken by him in a trade.

I think Carver is being realistic. He is having trouble getting his team to compete and he feels in this case that the refs are a big contributor to that situation.

You can't fire the team, but you can fire the coach. I think it would be silly for Carver not to acknowlege that, every coach of a major club knows this. He made many refrences to 'fan opinion' and media pressures. Witout doubt he is feeling a bit of the heat.

He needs to stop bitching about the refs, we all know they are shit and don't have to answer to anyone.

[Super]

Tactically I think Carver is showing his weakness. I really wish we had come out of the Dallas game with a win, though. We'd be posting in a "Carver is God" thread instead.

[Shakes McQueen]

So the sum of the give it time approach is not winning anything...?

Okay, you got me, we should give it some time -- and perhaps we can win nothing in the future, just as we have won nothing in the past.

Yeah, that was absolutely exactly what I was saying. Spot on.

As I SAID before, Leafs fans have ridden all kinds of coaches and players out of town in the past several seasons, instead of identifying the real problems, and what has THAT resulted in?

Advocating giving a team at least 10-12 games to get their shit in order, before crying out for everyone to be fired, is not the same as advocating letting the team's management piss on your face for 40+ years.

I didn't advocate sacking Arsene Wenger when Arsenal had a bad stretch of five games this season, in which they went 1-1-3, including losses to Stoke and Man City. And I won't advocate sacking Carver after five games, before I absolutely know that he's the problem.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

I think Carver is being realistic. He is having trouble getting his team to compete and he feels in this case that the refs are a big contributor to that situation.

You can't fire the team, but you can fire the coach. I think it would be silly for Carver not to acknowlege that, every coach of a major club knows this. He made many refrences to 'fan opinion' and media pressures. Witout doubt he is feeling a bit of the heat.

He needs to stop bitching about the refs, we all know they are shit and don't have to answer to anyone.

Agreed. Hanging that result around the referee's neck was stupid. Carver should be more concerned about the two goals that went in before the penalty.

And the complete lack of continuous possession by our side in the first half, where we couldn't string three passes together more than once or twice.

- Scott

[Pachuco]

Too extreme especially as who will replace them?
Should we go without a GM and a head coach?
You want Dasovic coaching our first team?

I would expect that MLSE is looking at options if they are thinking of firing him. It's not our job to find the coach and GM, it's theres.

[CoachGT]

Things may be taken a little bit more seriously than intended.

Remember back in the spring when Carver and the other coaches ran scrimmages, and commented that they made random calls to give the players the feel of the officiating. At the time, it was said tongue in cheek, but we all know that there is a hint of truth to it.

Carver's outbursts against the referees have been under some control for the most part. He's asked the media to give their opinion and has, from time to time, told it as he sees it. He commented yesterday immediately following the heat of the competition, when emotions are running high. It seems to me that at these times he may be given to use a little dramatic effect, and I think that it is the case here.

His comments remind me of a baseball manager. I've been around ball games most of my life, and I've seen many, many managers come out of the dugout and have a go at the umpire. I've never seen an umpire change their mind during that time. And I've seen many managers thrown out, seemingly wiht no effect.

The manager's actions are meant to have an effect on his team (and maybe to get the next call from the umpire, who may now have the tiniest seed of doubt about the call). The players now know that the coach is willing to go in there and fight for them, even if he knows he is going to lose. Often times, it makes the team pick up a little.

Maybe this is one of those times.

[T_Mizz]

I'm sure there will be some coaches available once the summer break starts in Europe with all the relegations and what not, plus I think Dale Mitchell is available

I am in no way calling for Carver's head with that statement but he knew what the expectations were going and and he's currently not meeting them so the time will come (if everything stays the same) that he knows he hasn't performed.

[ensco]

I'll predict that if/when Carver is fired, Mo goes back down on the field himself.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'll predict that if/when Carver is fired, Mo goes back down on the field himself.

If Carver gets canned, and if it's mid-season, I predict that too.

- Scott

[napoli73]

I think they need to get back to basics...too much messing around with technology for fitness and game reviewing....they need to be on the pitch with a ball and pylons, and by pylons i don't mean the players.

[Pachuco]

Well since we are onto Leafs comparisons here it goes. Ron Wilson took a team this year who was supposed to be utter shite by all accounts and somehow got them to play some pretty good hockey at times. In fact he's so good, he managed to play us out of a shot at Tavares. You can see right now that with the right players, Ron can take this Leafs team back to the playoffs without a problem.

Carver on the other hand has never shown that he can take a bad team and make them perform up to or even better then expectations as Ron did. Instead, he has actually managed to make this team perform even worst then most people expected. This year, he's had an entire pre-season with the right players to work with and we are off to a worst start then last year. Not only that, the scariest thing of all is that we have a better team on paper, but yet we play the exact same system of long ball that has proven time and time again to be the worst system in all of football.

It is for this reason that I say Fire Carver! and keep Mo (for now). He's one CB from completing a very good team on paper, minus the coach of course.

[Dirk Diggler]

Well since we are onto Leafs comparisons here it goes. Ron Wilson took a team this year who was supposed to be utter shite by all accounts and somehow got them to play some pretty good hockey at times. In fact he's so good, he managed to play us out of a shot at Tavares. You can see right now that with the right players, Ron can take this Leafs team back to the playoffs without a problem.

Carver on the other hand has never shown that he can take a bad team and make them perform up to or even better then expectations as Ron did. Instead, he has actually managed to make this team perform even worst then most people expected. This year, he's had an entire pre-season with the right players to work with and we are off to a worst start then last year. Not only that, the scariest thing of all is that we have a better team on paper, but yet we play the exact same system of long ball that has proven time and time again to be the worst system in all of football.

It is for this reason that I say Fire Carver! and keep Mo (for now). He's one CB from completing a very good team on paper, minus the coach of course.


I completely agree with this post. You see, good coaches and good managers deliver the goods right away. They don't use stupid 5 year plan excuses to cover their butts. Same thing with Brian Burke. He's a man with a plan. You can tell that by the way he has gone around doing player acquisitions and such. He was given the reigns with some severe handicaps (bloated salaries, no draft picks, poor talent etc) and already he has started to make a difference.

On the other hand, we have people like Carver and Mo who have very little history of success (if not a history of failures) and we can begin to see the pattern continue on right away. If they were proven individuals at their previous positions, I would be willing to give them all the time in the world. But with these two, I'm afraid that I honestly don't see anything worth while. Their past instills very little confidence in me.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

just want to say.... to all you complainers

"ARE YOU A LEAF FAN IN DISGUISE"


year three for mo and a little over a year for carver and your on these guys... takes time to build... y've been waiting 40 freak'n years and you still watch the leafs wait at least 4 for the TFC...

I'm barfing in my breakfast reading this ... mopes

the ref'n is shit in this league... and im not just saying it in regards to TFC ... watching the sounders / chivas game the other day it was same old crap ref'n...


the sad part of this is there is too many Leaf fans in TFC colors...red and blue dont mix..this team need time to grow but too many impatient fans
cant seem to understand this....

[Pigfynn]

I'm willing to bet that if we have a losing record in the league by the end of the home stretch part of the Nutralite Canadian Championship (with losses to both Van and Montreal) Carver will be sacked.

Just my guess

[Get In There]

I'm willing to bet that if we have a losing record in the league by the end of the home stretch part of the Nutralite Canadian Championship (with losses to both Van and Montreal) Carver will be sacked.

Just my guess

That's a solid prediction - "if" we lose those two home games. A bit of a tall order but if it came to fruition.....wow, would this place be nuts

B

[Pigfynn]

I know I'd stop believing in Carver and our players "if" that did happen.

For the record, I don't think this will happen...but if it did, the combination of media and supporter pressure would be too great to ignore.

[mlsintoronto]

Um....just trolling along and a question comes to mind: and puhlease do not read anything into this... Why, as people are calling for Carver's head, do we see the repeating phrase "mo would throw him under the bus"?

It seems like a mixed message.

[T_Mizz]

Um....just trolling along and a question comes to mind: and puhlease do not read anything into this... Why, as people are calling for Carver's head, do we see the repeating phrase "mo would throw him under the bus"?

It seems like a mixed message.
Quick Carver Haters, read into this:D

[mlsintoronto]

Quick Carver Haters, read into this:D


Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.....

[wzhxvy]

Are you asking why we want him fired and then state that "Mo will throw him under the bus ? "...if that is the question, its pretty simple. No one disputes that John is a genuine, and nice guy, but in the view of some is not doing the job. On the other hand, if Mo feels the pressure on his own job security, JC will be the fired without a doubt, regardless of whether he is the cause or not. I do not think those two opinions are in contradiction. I think those sentiments are a reflection of what some think of Mo's character.

[Pachuco]

Are you asking why we want him fired and then state that "Mo will throw him under the bus ? "...if that is the question, its pretty simple. No one disputes that John is a genuine, and nice guy, but in the view of some is not doing the job. On the other hand, if Mo feels the pressure on his own job security, JC will be the fired without a doubt, regardless of whether he is the cause or not. I do not think those two opinions are in contradiction. I think those sentiments are a reflection of what some think of Mo's character.

Also, GMs do this all the time. They fire the coach to try and save their own job and the mess they created. Not saying Mo's created a mess, I happen to think the mess is Carver but I can see how somebody would say that.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I completely agree with this post. You see, good coaches and good managers deliver the goods right away. They don't use stupid 5 year plan excuses to cover their butts. Same thing with Brian Burke. He's a man with a plan. You can tell that by the way he has gone around doing player acquisitions and such. He was given the reigns with some severe handicaps (bloated salaries, no draft picks, poor talent etc) and already he has started to make a difference.

On the other hand, we have people like Carver and Mo who have very little history of success (if not a history of failures) and we can begin to see the pattern continue on right away. If they were proven individuals at their previous positions, I would be willing to give them all the time in the world. But with these two, I'm afraid that I honestly don't see anything worth while. Their past instills very little confidence in me.


Burke had his chance to succeed with the Leaf he did not...FIRE him NOW!! sound familar? Like Carver? Burke had his chance out he goes??

[Pigfynn]

Not on topic totally but...

I really wonder how the quote "the fans think I shouldn't play Barrett" even came to be spoken by Carver?

How would he know about the rantings of a few message boards? Why is it worth mentioning?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Um....just trolling along and a question comes to mind: and puhlease do not read anything into this... Why, as people are calling for Carver's head, do we see the repeating phrase "mo would throw him under the bus"?

It seems like a mixed message.


TFC fans are like a doctors office when the docs on Holiday


NO Patience!!!:D

[Beach_Red]

Are you asking why we want him fired and then state that "Mo will throw him under the bus ? "...if that is the question, its pretty simple. No one disputes that John is a genuine, and nice guy, but in the view of some is not doing the job. On the other hand, if Mo feels the pressure on his own job security, JC will be the fired without a doubt, regardless of whether he is the cause or not. I do not think those two opinions are in contradiction. I think those sentiments are a reflection of what some think of Mo's character.

It has nothing to do with anyone's "character" - it's the standard GM - coach relationship.

Bob Gainey fired Guy Carbonneau and went behind the bench himself. It happens dozens of times every year in all sports.

Sheesh...

[wzhxvy]

^ thats your opinion. I happen to think Mo would throw his mother under the bus if it meant a few more days on the "5 year plan" train...

[Pachuco]

Burke had his chance to succeed with the Leaf he did not...FIRE him NOW!! sound familar? Like Carver? Burke had his chance out he goes??

Comparing a GM who has been in control of a team for 5 months to a coach has that been in control for 1.2 years. Real mature of you.

[LucaGol]

Um....just trolling along and a question comes to mind: and puhlease do not read anything into this... Why, as people are calling for Carver's head, do we see the repeating phrase "mo would throw him under the bus"?

It seems like a mixed message.

I see, it seems as if the hierarchical structure of the Toronto FC front office has been incorrectly assumed by most, if not all of us.

Mo Johnston doesn't actually have any authority to do anything ... not totally surprising. Not to bring in a DP ... and not to axe John Carver.


I guess we didn't have to read into it ... I'm sure we would have eventually reached this conclusion in year 5 of what is quickly becoming a debacle of a franchise.

[Beach_Red]

^ thats your opinion. I happen to think Mo would throw his mother under the bus if it meant a few more days on the "5 year plan" train...

You've made no secret of how you fel about Mo. It clouds everything you say.

My description of the GM - coach relationship isn't an opinion it's what happens consistently in sports. When it happens at TFC (and someday it will, every coach is hired to be fired) it won't be personal, it'll have nothing to do with character, it'll be the way things work in the real world.

[wzhxvy]

You are right. I do not like Mo as a person (I must qualify that I have had limited interaction with him but that is my opinion and I am usually right about people). I also think Mo should be fired when/if JC is fired, as I hold him even more accountable than JC.

[Hooligan69]

Yeah, get rid of Carver and bring in someone new and watch our boys produce the same results while everyone here screams bloody murder and calls for the new coach to be canned again - and the cycle continues over and over without end and without the positive results we expect and demand. Sounds like a smart plan to me, folks.

[nascarguy]

You are right. I do not like Mo as a person (I must qualify that I have had limited interaction with him but that is my opinion and I am usually right about people). I also think Mo should be fired when/if JC is fired, as I hold him even more accountable than JC.

yep me to I like mojo but as a gm he is not up to the job

[scooter]

i know everyone is pissed that we lost last night
but calling for carver's head is a bit much
we are supposed to be supporters

i am sure the whole team was disappointed too
in case you didnt watch the same game i did
the boys fought back from a 2 goal deficite only to get ripped off by a poor call
in the last few minutes - but a hand ball in the box is a penalty
thats football

[LucaGol]

We can't even string three passes together?

Ok.

This is not simply about one result. This is about a trend of entropic play that shows no signs of improvement.

Issues that we were dealing with last year are still painfully present.

[Beach_Red]

You are right. I do not like Mo as a person (I must qualify that I have had limited interaction with him but that is my opinion and I am usually right about people). I also think Mo should be fired when/if JC is fired, as I hold him even more accountable than JC.

Well, I appreciate your honesty and your qualifier of "usually right about people."

Me, I'm usually wrong ;).

[forza_tfc]

I think they need to get back to basics...too much messing around with technology for fitness and game reviewing....they need to be on the pitch with a ball and pylons, and by pylons i don't mean the players.

Totally agree. All that high-tech wizardry hasn't done shit for us.

[Walnut]

Alan Pardew is looking for a job right now :D

[napoli73]

They spent so much money, time learning and setting the damm thing up in stead of working on tactics ....shit they could have hired me and i would have done it on the fly for cheap!
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_fieldcopy.jpg

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Comparing a GM who has been in control of a team for 5 months to a coach has that been in control for 1.2 years. Real mature of you.


only 7 months difference.....not much really....dont forget the Ducks were
already built before Burke got there so he has not acheived much on his own

[Shep]

As for Carver, you don't fire your coach after a few bad results, especially when everyone was glowing after our first two results. There's plenty of time left and I for one back him to turn things around.

IN CARVER WE TRUST

I agree. People were questioning Barret, Carver kept him going. Football isn't always about the immediate win, and TFC hopefully aren't going to turn to the recent European style of quick-firing the coach. I've got faith in the club and it's commander, and a family can't be built on threat of dismissal.

:canada:

[MrHawk]

People will always question Barrett. He scored 1 goal in 5 games with umpteen scoring chances this season.

1 goal, does not mean he's going to be a goal scoring machine.

And yes, after this disappointment so far, you'd have to imagine Carver's job would be on the line (But generally your job is always on the line when your team does not produce).

[Darlofletch]

Napoli73 that is cruel but hilarious genius. Your Barrett and Harmse dots are perfect. But why is there a dot in the right back position, that surely isn't suposed to be Marvell Wynne is it? he's never there.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Dont forget any coach from outside of this league would prob have to have a season or two to adjust so we'd prob have to start from scratch

[rocker]

forget Burke.. he gets a free pass for now.... how about Brian Colangelo?
he was this god of the NBA GMs.... comes in to a team, does OK, then eventually stinks.
Did he lose his god-like ability in 3 seasons?

[dannyd]

They spent so much money, time learning and setting the damm thing up in stead of working on tactics ....shit they could have hired me and i would have done it on the fly for cheap!
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_fieldcopy.jpg

hahaha!! ROFLMFAO... THIS IS BY FAR THE GREATEST POST IN THE HISTORY OF THIS BOARD...

You just forgot to put the dot for Carver moaning in the 4th official's ear all game, and then it's our perfect game plan...

[napoli73]

Napoli73 that is cruel but hilarious genius. Your Barrett and Harmse dots are perfect. But why is there a dot in the right back position, that surely isn't suposed to be Marvell Wynne is it? he's never there.

LOL thanks! This illustration shows general ball movement, tomorrow I shall post player movements.

[ExiledRed]

They spent so much money, time learning and setting the damm thing up in stead of working on tactics ....shit they could have hired me and i would have done it on the fly for cheap!
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_fieldcopy.jpg

that's hilarious. you get an A.

[S_D]

They spent so much money, time learning and setting the damm thing up in stead of working on tactics ....shit they could have hired me and i would have done it on the fly for cheap!
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_fieldcopy.jpg

....................................... :taz: ....:frown2:




hahaha!! ROFLMFAO... THIS IS BY FAR THE GREATEST POST IN THE HISTORY OF THIS BOARD...

You just forgot to put the dot for Carver moaning in the 4th official's ear all game, and then it's our perfect game plan...

There ya go lol

[Dirk Diggler]

forget Burke.. he gets a free pass for now.... how about Brian Colangelo?
he was this god of the NBA GMs.... comes in to a team, does OK, then eventually stinks.
Did he lose his god-like ability in 3 seasons?

People aren't asking for his head because he is a proven GM with a history of success ... something that Mo lacks. Given enough time, it is more likely that he will steer the ship in the correct direction.

In addition, you can't disregard the team's tremendous record in his first full season in Toronto.

[Pachuco]

only 7 months difference.....not much really....dont forget the Ducks were
already built before Burke got there so he has not acheived much on his own

WOW - you're so bright that you failed to see that the basis of my comment is you are comparing a GM to a coach. Since when do they have the same role? Carver is responsible for how the current players on the team perform, Burke is responsible for bringing players into the team. If you want to make a Burke comparision try comparing him to Mo, DUH!!!

[Pachuco]

People aren't asking for his head because he is a proven GM with a history of success ... something that Mo lacks. Given enough time, it is more likely that he will steer the ship in the correct direction.

In addition, you can't disregard the team's tremendous record in his first full season in Toronto.

Not only that, he brought players in that were expected to make the playoffs this year. By ALL ACCOUNTS. So who's to blame? the only people you can blame there are the players. I'd love to blame Mitchell, but the team did no better with him gone. It's really hard to blame an interim coach as well.

[Walnut]

Will everyone just chill out. JC & Mo still have 1083 days left on the 5 year plan to get things going.

Patience people, pleeease :p

[Cashcleaner]

WHAT 5-YEAR PLAN?!

Who outside of this forum has ever mentioned a 5-Year Plan?!

It's starting to sound like the whole "MLS has decreed all new teams play in Soccer-Specific Stadia" that people are always talking about even though its not true.

[Sullivan]

On paper, TFC's 2009 roster is certainly more talented than 2008's.
Aside from O'Brian White, Carver's roster options/selection's are totally his - no excuses.

So far this season, On-the-field, the team is crap; no width, no shape, little in possession, poor support, on and off-the-ball.

There are 2 main reasons for a team not having shape, width, possession and/or support.
1) Players have no idea what they are supposed to do; or
2) Players are doing as instructed.

Either explanation = Carver.
Is the man clueless, probably not; but his way (style/tactics/methods) is not conducive to acquiring points.

More importantly and perhaps more telling is TFC STILL LACK a quality CB and a striker - this reality is not Carver's responsibility or fault. Its not like we don't have chances to score; and its not that we can't defend - nobody takes control, and under pressure its panic mode at the back.

But what talent there is, it is not being properly or fully utilized - this reality is ALL Carver.

Mo will throw Carver under the bus once he senses a threat or pressure from ML$E brass, and only then will Carver be tossed. That act alone buys Mo another season. Mo will have to eat picking "the wrong" gaffer(s) during his plan.

After 5 matches
2009 Record Overall
W L T GF GA Pts
1 2 2 07 09 ..5

Summary - 1st 5 results of 2009
W, 3-2, @ KC Wizards
T, 1-1, @ Columbus
L, 0-2, Seattle
T, 1-1, FC Dallas
L, 2-3, @ FC Dallas

2009 Record - current to-date
Home.............Away
W L T GF GA ..W L T. GF GA
0 1 1 01 03 ... 1 1 1 06 06

2008 Record
1st 5 results from 2008 = 9 points
L, 0-2, @ Crew
L, 1-4, @ DC United
W, 3-2, @ LA Galaxy
W, 1-0, RSL
W, 2-0, KC Wizards

Home..........Away
W L T GF GA ..W L T. GF GA
6 2 7 17 12 3 11 1 17 31

Next 3 matches are at BMO: Chivas, KC & Columbus.
Then Vancouver, also @ BMO.
A vist to DC United, then back to BMO to host Montreal.
Then it's 2 more MLS opponents @BMO: Chicago & N England.
Finish May with a trip to Houston.

[napoli73]

I just finished mapping the player movement, combined with the ball movement i hope it gives us a better understanding of what we have to work on in training.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_field.jpg

[Pachuco]

just want to say.... to all you complainers

"ARE YOU A LEAF FAN IN DISGUISE"


year three for mo and a little over a year for carver and your on these guys... takes time to build... y've been waiting 40 freak'n years and you still watch the leafs wait at least 4 for the TFC...

I'm barfing in my breakfast reading this ... mopes

the ref'n is shit in this league... and im not just saying it in regards to TFC ... watching the sounders / chivas game the other day it was same old crap ref'n...

I'm curious, what does the shit ref'n have anything to do with Carver's ass being on the line? oh, not the best thing to start your post by saying "to all you complainers" and then going on to complain yourself ;)

[Darlofletch]

I just finished mapping the player movement, combined with the ball movement i hope it gives us a better understanding of what we have to work on in training.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_field.jpg

excellent work again. especially Dichio's dot.

[Oldtimer]

I just finished mapping the player movement, combined with the ball movement i hope it gives us a better understanding of what we have to work on in training.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_field.jpg

ha-ha love it, especially Carver "discussing" with the 4th official.

[trane]

I just finished mapping the player movement, combined with the ball movement i hope it gives us a better understanding of what we have to work on in training.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww29/Hypno73/soccer_field.jpg

Finally I see Carver's game plan. Excellent. Well maybe it can work. Maybe Chivas so confused that they just sit down in confusion, while we waltz into the box, and kick the ball into the net. However, they are holding shape, I am not sure that is part of the plan.