Today’s News, Monday , Apr.20

[denime]

Carver rips into referee after TFC done in by handball call
Impressive comeback from two-goal deficit in second half spoiled by late penalty kick goal
Douglas B. McIntyre

FRISCO, Tex. – To say that John Carver was disappointed with referee Tim Weyland's performance in Toronto FC's 3-2 loss to FC Dallas here last night would be an understatement, to say the least.
After digging themselves out of a 2-0, first-half hole on goals by defender Adrian Serioux and forward Chad Barrett, TFC looked like they'd salvaged another hard-earned road point. But a late handball call on defender Marvell Wynne changed all that, and Kenny Cooper's clinical penalty kick with seven minutes to go sent the visitors to their first loss away from BMO Field this season.

Read More (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/621103)


Cooper leads hoops past Reds
PAUL ATTFIELD

It appears last week was the exception and not the rule. Having held Kenny Cooper off the scoresheet at BMO Field, the FC Dallas striker returned to his Toronto-terrorizing form, plundering another two goals at the Reds' expense as the home side ran out 3-2 winners last night in Dallas.
Cooper secured the win from the penalty spot in the 84th minute, firing home after right back Marvell Wynne was adjudged to have handled in the area.

Read More (http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090419.wsptTFC19/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home)


Dallas scores on late penalty to beat Toronto FC

Kenny Cooper scored twice, including the go-ahead goal on a penalty kick in the 84th minute, to lift FC Dallas to its first victory of the Major League Soccer season, a 3-2 win over Toronto FC on Sunday night in Frisco, Tex.
Dallas (1-3-1) was awarded the penalty kick after Toronto FC defender Marvell Wynne was called for a foul inside the penalty area. Cooper converted from the 12-yard spot by placing a shot past goalkeeper Stefan Frei into the left corner of the net.

Read More (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/04/19/sp-tfc-dallas-mls.html)


Reds down in Dallas
Another late goal sinks TFC hopes of a valuable away point
By SUN WIRES SERVICES

FRISCO, Tex. -- Kenny Cooper scored twice, including the go-ahead goal on a penalty kick in the 84th minute to lift FC Dallas to its first victory of the season, 3-2 over Toronto FC last night.
Dallas (1-3-1) was awarded the penalty kick after TFC defender Marvell Wynne was called for a foul inside the penalty area.
Cooper converted from the 12-yard spot by placing a shot past goalkeeper Stefan Frei into the left corner of the net.
Chad Barrett's goal in the 59th minute evened the game 2-2 as TFC (1-1-2) erased a two-goal deficit.

Read More (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2009/04/20/9171516-sun.html)


Toronto FC allows Dallas first victory of season

Kenny Cooper scored twice, including the go-ahead goal on a penalty kick in the 84th minute, to lift FC Dallas to its first victory of the season, 3-2 over Toronto FC last night.
Dallas (1-3-1) got the penalty kick after Toronto FC defender Marvell Wynne was called for a foul inside the penalty area. Cooper converted from the 12-yard spot by placing a shot past goalkeeper Stefan Frei into the left corner of the net.


Read More (http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=1513297)


Choking victims
Ryan Johnston

Toronto FC did not lose the game in Dallas because Marvell Wynne handled the ball in the box and a penalty was awarded. It lost because the team on the field is simply incapable of reacting to the positives it creates.
With 16 wins in 65 total games it comes as no real surprise.

Read More (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/blogs/2009/04/20/johnston_choking_victims/)



http://i41.tinypic.com/14t4ug0.jpg



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

[Dale_Rojo]

Meh , happy 4/20

:stogey: http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/bretboonebabe_29/WeedHeart.jpg :stogey:

[CoachGT]

Morning all.

Listening to the fan590 this morning, the discussion was about the NHL playoffs and refereeing issues. That games seem to be getting out of hand, scrums, and a different measure of calling penalties between the regular season and now. How muggings seem to be routinely occurring in the crease.

Too bad that the local media doens't understand more about the officiating in MLS - if NHL referees have issues, they are head and shoulders above what occurs in MLS. And every team would agree with that.

I don't understand how it happens in consecutive years in Dallas, though.

[Stouffville_RPB]

I'm so sad today :(
Come on TFC! We had such high hopes this season and they have vanished just 5 games in. Even the most optimistic are starting to turn.

To top is all off the SSG kinda scares me today. :(

[Blazer]

Wasn’t able to watch the game. So the question really is, was it a handball yes or no?!

If it was then Dallas won fair and square no? If not, then chalk another one up to poor officiating and another reason why this league can’t be taken too seriously.

[OHARARULES]

I'm so sad today :(
Come on TFC! We had such high hopes this season and they have vanished just 5 games in. Even the most optimistic are starting to turn.

To top is all off the SSG kinda scares me today. :(


AGREED!!

I think the SSG is mad at me..

[Dale_Rojo]

Morning all.

Listening to the fan590 this morning, the discussion was about the NHL playoffs and refereeing issues. That games seem to be getting out of hand, scrums, and a different measure of calling penalties between the regular season and now. How muggings seem to be routinely occurring in the crease.

Too bad that the local media doens't understand more about the officiating in MLS - if NHL referees have issues, they are head and shoulders above what occurs in MLS. And every team would agree with that.

I don't understand how it happens in consecutive years in Dallas, though.

in dallas, dallas @ T.O its like there is a clause that the ref has to be shite at this game... BTW COOPER IS A PU**Y A$$ B*TCH god , that "man" get on his knees faster than pamela for tommy-lee...:D

[dupont]

I see Carver is back on the Refs again. I wonder if the league is going to hand out some kind of punishment for it?
I'm just having my morning tea right now and I'm really dreading thinking about the game on Wednesday without Dero.

[gtaguy]

Another down day for tfc fans. I don't know why i come in here to read the sad news :noidea:


Thanks as always D for posting the daily news..

[keem-o-sabi]

a nice canuck coed girl (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/miss-coed/)today ;)

[Technorgasm]

Its SO obvious that it was a bad call, and the call decided the game.

I still say, we battled back, and of that we can be proud.

but PK or no PK, we should have made the game safe BEFORE then. we threw it away. The ref is not te only one at fault here.



Have a great week everyone - Happy rainy 4:20

[jabbronies]

After watching the game last night I have come to a conclusion.

The MLS is not as tough as people claim it to be.
Yes there are tough players who like to play a hard game, but the ref's see to all be in favour of the latin style of play that doesn't allow for hard tackles and a bit of shoving and pushing here and there.

I think TFC needs to adapt a softer style of play. They may win a few more games with the ref playing more to thier favour.

[Roogsy]

I think TFC needs to adapt a softer style of play. They may win a few more games with the ref playing more to thier favour.

I have to agree.

Unfortunately, we have some hard-nosed players that are too proud to do that. Brennan, Robbo, Dichio...they'd all make themselves sick before tumbling to the floor as easy as other players do. And that is honourable. Unfortunately, it is a detrimental factor in this league with these pathetic refs.

Even Barrett fights through fouls instead of going down like I wish he would sometimes.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Its SO obvious that it was a bad call, and the call decided the game.

^^ true.
But then again as an old coach used to tell me:

"Don't give them the chance to come back or steal one at the end.
Bury them early both on the score board and in their minds.
Being up by a few at the end of the game is always the best way."

[Roogsy]

Anyone remember when was the last time we were "up a few" at the end of a game?

[CoachGT]

Wasn’t able to watch the game. So the question really is, was it a handball yes or no?!

If it was then Dallas won fair and square no? If not, then chalk another one up to poor officiating and another reason why this league can’t be taken too seriously.

It was a handball, in that the ball made contact with his arm. Was it intended to stop the ball? Probably not, The ball was in motion back to the top of the box at the time of contact. Wynne was in the process of changing direction or slowing down at the point of contact. His arm was in the position before the ball was kicked. Referee's discretion, but I'm not sure how Wynne could have done anything else.

Smart play for Dallas, if the touch back was intended to hit Wynne's arm. Makes the play difficult for the ref, in that he makes the call and pisses off TFC or doesn't make the call and pisses off all 12 people in the stands.

Ryan Johnston and Mark in Ottawa are both right - the game was in doubt long before the handball. TFC had chances to put the ball in the back of the net and didn't.

[Phil]

After watching the game last night I have come to a conclusion.

The MLS is not as tough as people claim it to be.
Yes there are tough players who like to play a hard game, but the ref's see to all be in favour of the latin style of play that doesn't allow for hard tackles and a bit of shoving and pushing here and there.

I think TFC needs to adapt a softer style of play. They may win a few more games with the ref playing more to thier favour.

I was thinking this exact same thing last night during the game. Dallas has a sequence of play where one of their players fell 3 times and drew fouls all three times. Obviously he was playing soft to get the call. Our guys would play through it.

TFC had 18 fouls, Dallas 9. We can be a dirty team, but this number is wayyyy out there for me.

[stretchthetruth]

I was thinking this exact same thing last night during the game. Dallas has a sequence of play where one of their players fell 3 times and drew fouls all three times. Obviously he was playing soft to get the call. Our guys would play through it.

TFC had 18 fouls, Dallas 9. We can be a dirty team, but this number is wayyyy out there for me.


was it Ferreira (sp) in the corner towards the end of the game? he went down so many times, it was pathetic... Harmse just threw his hands up in disgust at one point... but the ref eats up of course...

[Phil]

was it Ferreira (sp) in the corner towards the end of the game? he went down so many times, it was pathetic... Harmse just threw his hands up in disgust at one point... but the ref eats up of course...

That was it. The thing is, Harmse and Serioux have a reputation that makes them guilty with very little actual evidence. Now that Carver is back on the tirade against the refs, I only see bad things. We need to adjust our playing style to the league because its obvious that the league is not going to adjust to us.

[ExiledRed]

It was a handball. The intent of the player is irrelevant.

Fouls get called when they're unintentional too.

It's all about the impact on the play. The underside of Wynne's forearm prevented a play, penalty clear as day. Carver should stop alienating the refs, it will bite him in the arse again like it did last season.

[Phil]

It was ball to hand.

I am fine with the call, but I think the refs need to consistantly call it. That is the frustration of Carvers comments. We have all seen that call not made many times and now its cost us penalties in two games.

I agree with Carver having to shut it, but pandoras box is now open Exiled.

[Dunkers]

I do beleive that the ref was a problem durring this game, i am not happy with the hand ball call, but i get it. Its not that the ref was calling things soft, there was no consistancy, at least twice i watched tfc players outright push over dallas players (robo and serioux) with no foul, then its no suprise that when those fouls are not called the other team is going to start embelishing.

Nobody on the pitch knew what was a foul and what was not (not even the ref)

[Jack]

Carver needs to shut up about the refs. I love his passion, but in this case he just sounds ridiculous. I suppose he needs to deflect criticism somehow...

But seriously, John, I'm asking the following questions:

Did the ref cause Chad "Shit the Bed" Barrett to kick the ball straight at the defender's chest?

Did the ref gift a ball to Kenny Cooper, one of the deadliest strikers in the league, in prime shooting position?

Did the ref leave Drew Moor ridiculously wide open for a free header in the box?

Did the ref sub in Dichio at the very end of the game when he would have almost no influence on the outcome?

It was the same ref for both teams, John.

[trane]

Bad call or not, you allow constant opposition pressure in your box, bad shit will happen. Ultimatley it is your own fault, the call happens 10 yards outside of the box, not such a big deal.

[loconet]

Wasn’t able to watch the game. So the question really is, was it a handball yes or no?! .

It wasn't.

From FIFA's referee's guidelines (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lotg_en.pdf): (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lotg_en.pdf%29:)



Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact
with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following
into consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards
the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected
ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is
an infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing,
shinguard etc.) counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard etc.) counts
as an infringement
That third point gets missed a lot by refs and players alike.

It is clear to anyone with arms that they are usually use to stabilize yourself. It was not a deliberate handling of the ball by Wynn. 100% bad call.

Having said that, had we capitalized on those early chances, we wouldn't care so much about a bad call :(. Bad calls went both ways. Refs will always make mistakes. It's part of the game. We need to make our own luck. Right now, we have bigger problems than refs.

[ilikemusic]

I am so fucking sick of Carver's excuses.

It's the refs, it's the pitch, it's the lack of a DP, its international duty, its the schedule, its always fucking something.

[Fort York Redcoat]

After watching the game last night I have come to a conclusion.

The MLS is not as tough as people claim it to be.
Yes there are tough players who like to play a hard game, but the ref's see to all be in favour of the latin style of play that doesn't allow for hard tackles and a bit of shoving and pushing here and there.

I think TFC needs to adapt a softer style of play. They may win a few more games with the ref playing more to thier favour.

J what's the record number of one post quoted?

Absolutely agree. I saw Ibby over thinking and not till the end did he draw the foul. Vitti plays much the same way. I respect how hard he tries to keep on his feet but it's not doing us favours if he loses the ball.

[Carter]

I'm so sad today :(
Come on TFC! We had such high hopes this season and they have vanished just 5 games in. Even the most optimistic are starting to turn.

To top is all off the SSG kinda scares me today. :(

Shes old enough to be your mom.. :rolleyes:

[DangerRed]

Man, that was a tough beating to take, but I'm stoked for Wednesday. Hopefully the rain's not so bad (40 percent probability so far) and the Reds can dent the Goats' unbeaten record. A 2-2-2 record would not be so bad ahead of the weekend..

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Man, that was a tough beating to take, but I'm stoked for Wednesday. Hopefully the rain's not so bad (40 percent probability so far) and the Reds can dent the Goats' unbeaten record. A 2-2-2 record would not be so bad ahead of the weekend..

No a 2-2-2 record would be fine...but Chivas seems to be the team to beat this season...with luck and breaks here and there we will do it.

[Blazer]

At the end of the day, as an objective fan, should the handball have been called? I’m getting conflicting reviews here, which leads me to believe the ref made the right call?!

I always advise refs in the various competitive sports that I play that their job is to officiate the game and have no influence into the outcome of the game especially when they try to exercise power in the pre-game meetings of coaches. You know, the guys who say, “Let your guys know that I will be strictly enforcing XYZ and any lip will result in their ejection, etc…” The best refs/umps/officials are the ones who go unnoticed and the ones who try not to determine the game before it has concluded. Something MLS officials have struggled with since its inception.

Carver is well within his rights to “rip” into them but when it is happening all too often one begins to wonder and question his credibility. I gather that Carver’s biggest challenge – and one that he made no qualms about after last season – was that officiating here in NA was something to be desired. He needs to get over the fact that just like his players, the refs are 3rd and 4th class too. It is what it is so move beyond and make the necessary adjustments. Maybe he has his guys playing too honest, who knows?!

[DangerRed]

No a 2-2-2 record would be fine...but Chivas seems to be the team to beat this season...with luck and breaks here and there we will do it.

You're right -- someone's got to beat Chivas. Maybe we'll be the first!

I'll be out there, rain or shine, screaming my lungs out. TFC may not always play well, but except for the Sounders match, they're a TON of fun to watch this season! Go REDS!!!

[rocker]

You're right -- someone's got to beat Chivas. Maybe we'll be the first!

I'll be out there, rain or shine, screaming my lungs out. TFC may not always play well, but except for the Sounders match, they're a TON of fun to watch this season! Go REDS!!!

right on brother!

[Pigfynn]

You're right -- someone's got to beat Chivas. Maybe we'll be the first!

I'll be out there, rain or shine, screaming my lungs out. TFC may not always play well, but except for the Sounders match, they're a TON of fun to watch this season! Go REDS!!!

I too will be there and at the end of the day that is what matters.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

It wasn't.

From FIFA's referee's guidelines (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lotg_en.pdf): (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lotg_en.pdf%29:)

That third point gets missed a lot by refs and players alike.

It is clear to anyone with arms that they are usually use to stabilize yourself. It was not a deliberate handling of the ball by Wynn. 100% bad call.

Having said that, had we capitalized on those early chances, we wouldn't care so much about a bad call :(. Bad calls went both ways. Refs will always make mistakes. It's part of the game. We need to make our own luck. Right now, we have bigger problems than refs.


+1 bad call, ESPECIALLY in the 85th MIN!!! I mean there was NO deliberate use of the hand!!

I can maybe understand calling it in the 25th min....maybe....but in the 85th!!? WTF!?!?

[ricciboy]

true say carver

[Phil]

Picture 8 of the sunshine girl has her falling out of her top a bit LOL.

[ExiledRed]

We'd have called for the ref's head if the situation was reversed and he didn't award the handball.

The rules might say it has to be deliberate, but a referee cannot judge that unless the player actually handles the ball. so he calls it based on the impact it has on play.

Wynne's forearm prevented a play, in the penalty box. peeeeep penalty.

The call against Harmse was much more dubious.

[Carter]

We'd have called for the ref's head if the situation was reversed and he didn't award the handball.

The rules might say it has to be deliberate, but a referee cannot judge that unless the player actually handles the ball. so he calls it based on the impact it has on play.

Wynne's forearm prevented a play, in the penalty box. peeeeep penalty.

The call against Harmse was much more dubious.


WOW, i don't think you watched the same game, because if you think that a dallas player over stepping the ball it popping up off his heel and hitting Wynne's arm when he was turning to run down the field with it prevented a play, i would really like to know what kinda play that is.

[Jack]

WOW, i don't think you watched the same game, because if you think that a dallas player over stepping the ball it popping up off his heel and hitting Wynne's arm when he was turning to run down the field with it prevented a play, i would really like to know what kinda play that is.
It was a penalty, dude. The ball didn't "pop up off his heel". He cut back and lifted the ball with his foot to try to get it past Wynne. Go watch the highlights again.

[Ageroo]

It was a penalty, dude. The ball didn't "pop up off his heel". He cut back and lifted the ball with his foot to try to get it past Wynne. Go watch the highlights again.

As I was on the road I only heard the second half on the radio.....looks like I am logging into match centre to watch the full game tonight.....seems like the general attitude of the board is that it was a penalty.....but I'll have to see it all the same....:)

[Pachuco]

WOW, i don't think you watched the same game, because if you think that a dallas player over stepping the ball it popping up off his heel and hitting Wynne's arm when he was turning to run down the field with it prevented a play, i would really like to know what kinda play that is.

You've just lost all credibility. The ball popped off Ferreira's heel? I know he's short, but I didn't realize his heel was in the place where his toe was supposed to be. Geeze, what a horrible thing to be born with your heel as your toes.

Watch the replay, your account is very wrong. If Wynne doesn't stop that ball with his hand, Ferrerira has a shot on net from inside the box. He had Wynne beaten.

http://www.mlsnet.com/quickkicks/index.jsp

[ExiledRed]

You've just lost all credibility. The ball popped off Ferreira's heel? I know he's short, but I didn't realize his heel was in the place where his toe was supposed to be. Geeze, what a horrible thing to be born with your heel as your toes.

Watch the replay, your account is very wrong. If Wynne doesn't stop that ball with his hand, Ferrerira has a shot on net from inside the box. He had Wynne beaten.

http://www.mlsnet.com/quickkicks/index.jsp

You should have preceded your post with a WOW! and then finished it with a photograph of somebody putting his hand over his face for emphasis.

[Carter]

You've just lost all credibility. The ball popped off Ferreira's heel? I know he's short, but I didn't realize his heel was in the place where his toe was supposed to be. Geeze, what a horrible thing to be born with your heel as your toes.

Watch the replay, your account is very wrong. If Wynne doesn't stop that ball with his hand, Ferrerira has a shot on net from inside the box. He had Wynne beaten.

http://www.mlsnet.com/quickkicks/index.jsp


I'm impressed that you can see from that video that it was his toe not the side/Cuneiforms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_%28anatomy%29) of his foot, Navicular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navicular_bone) sits behind the Cuneiforms which is connected to Calcaneus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcaneus) making the heel of the foot.

But now that lesson in anatomy is over. They were both turning to go the opposite way, because Ferrerira lost control of the ball, either or, it was a bad call, and we lost.

[Carter]

You should have preceded your post with a WOW! and then finished it with a photograph of somebody putting his hand over his face for emphasis.


WOW.

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/implied_facepalm.jpg

[jabbronies]

it was the top of his foot...

[Pachuco]

HA.
Of all people to talk about credibility , your really not one to talk !
People see your name and disregard the thread from the get go !

Not hating on your parade but Pachuco talking about credibility...
:noidea:

Geeze where did YOU come from? never even seen your name on these boards. are you saying you disagree with what I said? a little more information would be nice. I mean, since you are calling me out and everything.

[Pachuco]

I'm impressed that you can see from that video that it was his toe not the side/Cuneiforms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_%28anatomy%29) of his foot, Navicular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navicular_bone) sits behind the Cuneiforms which is connected to Calcaneus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcaneus) making the heel of the foot.

But now that lesson in anatomy is over. They were both turning to go the opposite way, because Ferrerira lost control of the ball, either or, it was a bad call, and we lost.

Hehe, so now it wasn't a step over that miraculously flicked off the heal which proceeded to bounce off the backboard, off a cloud and onto Wynne's hand?

I've watched the replay 100 times on my 52" LCD buddy, I was giving you the link for your own benefit. At no point did Ferreira lose control of the ball either.

Oh, and there was NO STEP OVER in that play. I'm exitingly awaiting your reply to show me how it is that anatomy will prove he stepped over the ball at some point before he kicked it off Wynne's hands.

[Jack]

I'm impressed that you can see from that video that it was his toe not the side/Cuneiforms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_%28anatomy%29) of his foot, Navicular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navicular_bone) sits behind the Cuneiforms which is connected to Calcaneus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcaneus) making the heel of the foot.

But now that lesson in anatomy is over. They were both turning to go the opposite way, because Ferrerira lost control of the ball, either or, it was a bad call, and we lost.
Dude, sorry, but I'm not sure how you can see it this way.

Watch the replay on Youtube

jvGXYEyxJ88

The play in question starts at 4:28 of the video and clearly shows Ferreira flick the ball back to get by Wynne. He clearly made the play and meant to flick it that way. I see no loss of control.

I frankly don't see how you can read it any other way. :noidea:

[Mark in Ottawa]

^^ exactly. A purposeful change of direction which Wynne was trying to mimic.

I agree with John Carver anyone would be making that change of direction with their arms away from their body.

Interesting to see that the Dallas player instantly gives up on the ball after it bounces off of Wynne's arm.