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View Full Version : Roster is the real problem, and that's on Mo



jloome
04-19-2009, 11:27 PM
I think even an objective perspective on Mo Johnston's successes or failures as a general manager can say that, as things stand, he has created a seriously unbalanced team, with some good players but a number of glaring issues that make it unable to compete.

My fear is that Carver might actually be a decent coach. But under the current conditions his job is exceptionally difficult.

There are three major problems:

1) Mo's defensive signings haven't really panned out. We've got two converted midfielders playing centre half, back up by the two gambians, 18 and 17 with no real pro experience, and Marco Velez. That's a shambles, a travesty of a defensive lineup after three seasons. That alone has probably been the biggest factor in not stepping to the next level. Jimmy, though much loved, is a better offensive than defensive player at this level and stage of his career. Wynne looks the real deal most of the time this year. The rest is... abysmal. Marshall and Olivier Tebily were the only two real defenders we've had in three years and both are gone.

2) In almost every position, Mo has signed a player that has one big upside, but numerous downsides, so that their one or two impressive elements give them some sheen that later wears off, when you see how they can't work together. Barrett works hard, but can't finish (most of the time.) Guevara has huge offensive upside, but drifts out of games defensively, leaving Robbo to cover too much ground. Robinson, meanwhile, tackles and marks really well, but his distribution this year has been awful and he showed in the Seattle game he can be mentally off. DeRo, all offense, no defense. Our wingers are inept, most of the time.

Instead of having guys with a balanced set of skills that will slot them well into a team environment, coupled with two or three exceptional players to lead, we have a lot of headcases and unmotivated performers with impressive singular sets of skills.

3) After nearly a thousand days of TFC, we've yet to see either a proven striker or a DP-quality game changer. So far, DeRo's about half way there.

I'm not suggesting Carver deserves a free pass, as there are tactical ways these problems could be minimized, including simplifying our approach and getting these assclowns to maintain their shape for longer than six minutes.

But let's call this for what it is: Mo's utter failure to sign even a handful of well-rounded and consistently competitive players. When three years in you have Kevin Harmse starting at centre back, Ibee and defensive central mid Sam Cronin starting on the wings, and both Guevara and Dero on the pitch at the same time, it's a recipe for disaster.

Unless major changes are made to solidify a focussed and balanced lineup, we're fucked again this year.

poppamidnight
04-19-2009, 11:39 PM
I dunno - Carver's pretty much up there,

how in the blue hell can you decide to field THE EXACT SAME LINEUP against THE EXACT SAME TEAM, when the week before you had absolutely nothing going for you....


While it's true, Mo has f'd up his roster options, the fact remains....there is options on the pine

-How the F--- does harmse see the light of day for TFC? and Nana ride the bench
-How does Chad get the start? sure he netted one, but he SHOULD have had 5 in the past 2 games, and COULD have had close to 10

Sonny Cheeba
04-19-2009, 11:40 PM
where's Kickit09?

Shway
04-19-2009, 11:42 PM
i disagree with the Chad, because goals will come in now
however
i 10000000% percent agree with the fact that HOW THE HELL IS KEVIN CAUSE-HARM to THE DEFENCE PLAYING, HE HAS NO COMPOSURE NO NOTHING.....NANA NEEDS A START

poppamidnight
04-19-2009, 11:46 PM
i disagree with the Chad, because goals will come in now
however
i 10000000% percent agree with the fact that HOW THE HELL IS KEVIN CAUSE-HARM to THE DEFENCE PLAYING, HE HAS NO COMPOSURE NO NOTHING.....NANA NEEDS A START


You sound like everyone did when Cunny netted one....

....look how great that turned out.... they sure came for him as well didnt they?

Shway
04-19-2009, 11:53 PM
lol....
the thing is barrett has scoredd plenty of goals for the reds
cunny didnt my friend

poppamidnight
04-20-2009, 12:02 AM
lol....
the thing is barrett has scoredd plenty of goals for the reds
cunny didnt my friend

Cunningham = 6 goals in 32 appearances
Chad = 4 (maybe 5 now...not sure if updated) in 17


Still a not-so great rate,
and defiantly not 'plenty',
might wanna stop by a borders, indigo, or chapters and pick up a Websters dictionary my friend

I rest my case,
chad shouldn't have gotten priority over Vitti.... don't let 1 goal cloud your judgement

Ossington Mental Youth
04-20-2009, 12:24 AM
Gotta say im a little dismayed.
I definitely agree with the roster issue, its certainly better than i twas but not what it should be, im surprised that getting some good CBs has been such an issue. Its one thing that should have been on the forefront along with signing a striker this year. It seems to have gotten a bit worse with the suggestion that that CB is no longer coming in July or whenever. Ive been reluctant int he past to make any comments on Mo but i certainly feel that its time. Its still early in the season but that wont change our defence.

I also gotta say that Carver's formations/subs are beginning to wear on me a bit. Hes got to give up on the 4-4-2 because we simply havent got the players for it at this time. Time to try something new and daring like the 4-5-1 we won with or with a 4-3-3 which had better results in the second half of the game against Seattle.

I havent had a chance to watch the game yet (it was on at 8am here and that wasnt going to happen) but I cant imagine with the score that anything too surprising happened.

Laurignano
04-20-2009, 12:30 AM
Meh.... I am tired of all of this shit. Mo put together a decent squad on paper. Look at our roster. Our weak spot is our defense. Mid-field is stacked. Forwards suck because they have no service at the moment and are always chasing long balls. Most of our goals come from set pieces and short passing pretty much.

We have DeRo - Proven in MLS and has won championships
Guevera - MLS MVP
Robo - Best holding midfielder
Dichio - On the bench but still a force on the field
Ibby - Young and full of lots of potential. Shouldn't be on the wing should be playing striker
Vitti - Has not been given a chance to really show what hes all about but I think if he is given the opporunity to start maybe he could be a good striker upfront
Serioux - Monster. Good defender.
Marvel - Fastest player in the MLS.

Now I think that Mo shouldn't just be blamed for this because in my opinion I think he did alright. He just really fucked up on not having a another good centreback. The team is playing like shit because Carver isn't using the right tatics for the MLS style. Watch Seattle..they play MLS style football. TFC needs to adjust their playing style and have to become more technical. I don't like how Carver lines up the players or even some of the postions he does...I pay very close attention to detail with tatics and I know every time that TFC does long balls or long throws 9/10 we don't get the ball. Thats why its important to play the game with the ball in our feet,and be calm and just create space for one another. But will that happen? I don't know...depends if Carver thinks it will be better then our long ball...

Dirk Diggler
04-20-2009, 01:31 AM
Even if Carver is the sole reason for our failures (which is possibly the case in my opinion as well), Mo is still at fault here since he brought him in and is sticking with him so far.

Cashcleaner
04-20-2009, 01:47 AM
I'm sure I've said it before, but I'm confident that Carver might be able to do a better job without Mo peeking over his shoulders. I will be honest though.

Although Mo has been on the outs with me for a while now, I'm starting to lose confidence in Carver as well. Ossington and Poppamidnight both made good points about Carver's tactics and formation choices. We need more creativity coming from Carver.

Stilts
04-20-2009, 01:52 AM
Carver can't win with a bunch of players who have little talent. You can't always blame the coach.

If we had a really good team, and it was balanced, with talented players in most positions, and we were performing this way. Fire the coach.

However, we are lacking talented players, and that is simply not Carvers fault.

Cashcleaner
04-20-2009, 02:04 AM
^ Ahhh, but who signs those players? They both have a hand in it.

Mo may be the guy who shows the money and lands the players, but Carver undoubtedly has input on who is offered any contract.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-20-2009, 02:07 AM
as well as how that person is used.
I was really hoping Carver might have learned from last years mistakes, which it would seem he has however a new set have come up. Granted this is his first time as head coach. I really am hoping to see a bit more creativity from him as far as formations are concerned adn not too late in the season please

Dirk Diggler
04-20-2009, 02:10 AM
Carver can't win with a bunch of players who have little talent. You can't always blame the coach.

If we had a really good team, and it was balanced, with talented players in most positions, and we were performing this way. Fire the coach.

However, we are lacking talented players, and that is simply not Carvers fault.

Although I agree to a certain extent ... calling our current roster untalented might be stretching it a bit. TFC Season 1 was untalented. What we have now is an average roster (at least on paper). Heck, Dallas this season is untalented (minus the obvious exception of one Kenny Cooper).

Cashcleaner
04-20-2009, 03:25 AM
^ I agree. Untalented doesn't fit. Unfinished? That sounds better.

SanStarko
04-20-2009, 05:09 AM
^ Ahhh, but who signs those players? They both have a hand in it.

Mo may be the guy who shows the money and lands the players, but Carver undoubtedly has input on who is offered any contract.

Indeed, listening to all the quotes pre-season it seemed that Carver wanted DeRo so Mo went and got him. Now Carver seems unable to figure out how to use him to get the best from him.

It seemed that Carver wanted Vitti, Mo went and got him, now Carver doesn't even play him, never mind get the best out of him.

Yeah there are weaks point in our squad, mainly in defence but I think the squad is more than good enough to cope in this league. The thing that worries me when I watch us play is that there doesn't seem to be any shape to us. The players are all over the place and nobody seems to know what their role is. That is down to Carver, not Mo. Not that I'm letting Mo off the hook here, he's had his share of mistakes, but I think our current problems are now down to Carver. The players are there, Carver just can't seem to use them.

bhoybobby
04-20-2009, 05:27 AM
Wow, what a revelation

trane
04-20-2009, 05:47 AM
I think even an objective perspective on Mo Johnston's successes or failures as a general manager can say that, as things stand, he has created a seriously unbalanced team, with some good players but a number of glaring issues that make it unable to compete.

My fear is that Carver might actually be a decent coach. But under the current conditions his job is exceptionally difficult.

There are three major problems:

1) Mo's defensive signings haven't really panned out. We've got two converted midfielders playing centre half, back up by the two gambians, 18 and 17 with no real pro experience, and Marco Velez. That's a shambles, a travesty of a defensive lineup after three seasons. That alone has probably been the biggest factor in not stepping to the next level. Jimmy, though much loved, is a better offensive than defensive player at this level and stage of his career. Wynne looks the real deal most of the time this year. The rest is... abysmal. Marshall and Olivier Tebily were the only two real defenders we've had in three years and both are gone.

2) In almost every position, Mo has signed a player that has one big upside, but numerous downsides, so that their one or two impressive elements give them some sheen that later wears off, when you see how they can't work together. Barrett works hard, but can't finish (most of the time.) Guevara has huge offensive upside, but drifts out of games defensively, leaving Robbo to cover too much ground. Robinson, meanwhile, tackles and marks really well, but his distribution this year has been awful and he showed in the Seattle game he can be mentally off. DeRo, all offense, no defense. Our wingers are inept, most of the time.

Instead of having guys with a balanced set of skills that will slot them well into a team environment, coupled with two or three exceptional players to lead, we have a lot of headcases and unmotivated performers with impressive singular sets of skills.

3) After nearly a thousand days of TFC, we've yet to see either a proven striker or a DP-quality game changer. So far, DeRo's about half way there.

I'm not suggesting Carver deserves a free pass, as there are tactical ways these problems could be minimized, including simplifying our approach and getting these assclowns to maintain their shape for longer than six minutes.

But let's call this for what it is: Mo's utter failure to sign even a handful of well-rounded and consistently competitive players. When three years in you have Kevin Harmse starting at centre back, Ibee and defensive central mid Sam Cronin starting on the wings, and both Guevara and Dero on the pitch at the same time, it's a recipe for disaster.

Unless major changes are made to solidify a focussed and balanced lineup, we're fucked again this year.

Agreed. But as you said Carver can not get a free pass, he has to recognize what his players can not do, and put him in a position which exploits their strenghs, and hides their weaknesses. Having said this, clearly this is easier said then done, but it is time for Carver to either simplify, or do something drastic, like 5-3-2, 5-4-1, I am not suggesting these specifically, it is just that he needs to change his appraoch. I agree with Jloome compltely I would have prefered a team of solid inteligent fundametaly sound players , with two or three "offensive stars", then a collection of incomplete players.

ensco
04-20-2009, 07:08 AM
I lean towards holding Carver more responsible, but I'm not giving Mo a pass here. What's going on with our backline is a joke.

Who do you blame for the dramatic fall off in performance of Brennan, Robinson and Wynne so far in 2009?

maninb
04-20-2009, 07:24 AM
IMO both Carver and Mo share the blame to date....Mo for not getting a DP which is ENTIRELY his fault, and to a lesser extent not getting a CB...also Carver seems lost about making substitutions...I mean we're down by goals and Dichio/Vitti are rooted to the bench? He's increasingly appearing out of his depth...but I'm willling to wait for another 2 games before passing final judgement....Let's GO YOU REDS!

TFC Tifoso
04-20-2009, 07:31 AM
Coaching a stacked roster is easy. A manager's true value is shown with how he deals with the flaws and his decisions to correct them.....Carver has shown little of this. A good manager gets his team to play above and beyond expectations.....Carver has only gotten them to play at expectations or below them. This is just as much Carver's problem as it is Mo's, if not more.....at least Mo has made some decent draft pics/signings.....I cannot point out one game where a smart coaching decision or sub won it for us.

jabbronies
04-20-2009, 07:37 AM
If we converted half of our chances yesterday I think we would've won the game 5-3.

Not a good win considering we gave up 3 goal in the process, but a win nonetheless.

I agree that our defensive line is shit. It's not even passable as a D line, it's garbage, plain and simple.
I also agree that our strikers can't score. I still don't see how Vitti is worth the 100K he's getting.

As for Carver, I'm not ready to give up on him, however, I do question his tactics. We scored on a set play - however, it was the exact same set play we scored once with last year. Why not come up with some more gems like that?

I don't get why he would bring Danny in with less than a minute left? It's not like we're protecting the lead. It's not the first time this year he's made a blunder sub or lack of one late in the game.

Also, what's with the 1 striker deal? Why not start Vitti and Dichio instead of just Barrett? It's not working! plain and simple, the guy can't score consistently. Why send him out there alone?

I give caver the benefit of the doubt on the striker situation. He's trying to give Barrett the chance to get comfortable and in the zone, truth is, Barrett is a dud. He always has been. Time to move on.

But the team has no flow to it, I blame carver for that. Bad ball movement, no real tactics are shown on the field, it's just get the ball and make frantic passes to whomever you think should get it or make hail mary passes and hope someone collects it.

felipe
04-20-2009, 07:39 AM
I disagree. We're playing better every week. Be patient. Its the sixth game; results will come.
You don't win with an unsettled lineup - you need the consistency of a starting 11.
Look at how much better our back line has looked the last couple of weeks, against 'the' star striker in the league.
Mistakes and miscues happen; be happy we're getting rid of our share early in the year.
Relax, this is easily the most talented roster (starters and depth-wise) we've ever had. The results will come.

Oblio2
04-20-2009, 07:55 AM
Look. Carver works with what he's given.
Mo works with what he can get. As I said in another post, this league is shit and you will only get a) young, unproven talent (see Gambians) b) Older players who are nearing retirement or c) North Americans who really, in the Grand Scheme, aren't that good .

This league is terrible, therefore lots of players stay away. This league plays out of whack, timewise with the rest of the world, therefore, players stay away. This league has some of the worst refereeing I have ever seen, players talk-Players stay away and finally, this league has a salary cap so, players don't want to limit their earning potential, therefore they stay away. The reputation of this league isn't great, players look at it as "Mickey Mouse" and ...stay away
Mo simply cannot get the talent because the talent doesn't want to come here to this third rate league.
There are exceptions, in players such as Robbo and DeRo but for the most part, the talent doesn't come.
So, Mo works with what he can. Carver works with, what he can. Do you really think replacing Mo or Carver will make a difference, especially at this point?

ExiledRed
04-20-2009, 08:26 AM
I agree with Oblio to a degree, but the other teams are faced with the same problems and limitations. In season 1, that's fair but this team should be at least be competetive.

However I dont think the most is being made of the lineup we have. We play too inhibited, we don't play our best options, substitutions are usually too little too late, and we are predictable.

anto7
04-20-2009, 08:31 AM
I have a tough time buying that Carver is directly responsible for most of our poor play. I really doubt that in training he has the players working on sending aimless 60 yard passes to nobody or practises passing the ball directly to the oppostion in your own half. Form what I have seen of any video footage of our scummages it is all about possesion football and tic-tac-toe passing style. Now perhaps he may not have the team working as a unit as well as they should due to some of his questionable formations but bottom line to me is that we have too many players on the team who are either just not good enough or are not performing to the standards that we require. That said, I thought 2nd half last night was fairly decent and we pretty much took the game to Dallas and had the majority of the possesion. We deserved a point and it was unfortunate that we gave away an unlucky penalty.
If the likes of Guevara, Desario (and Vitti please) can start performing to their ability we should be capable of performing decent soccer when we have the ball. The problem is getting that ball to these guys to their feet instead of the aimless punts up field from the likes of Harmse and Brennan.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-20-2009, 08:41 AM
Watching the game right now, i still stand by my comments I made earlier and would like to add that for some reason or another our bloody boys arent a)chasing balls/passes down and b)arent pressuring nearly enough. I dont know why, but its happening on the reg. Its definitely an element thats contributing to our recent form.

fetajr
04-20-2009, 08:45 AM
defenders/defensive midfielders booting the ball up the field or out of bounds when an attacker was within a few meters was the ultimate piss off for me in all of these games so far. On each of those plays, they could have easily passed the ball to the closest team mate or to the keeper.

I don't know if that is a lack of skill on the player not being able to settle the ball down and pass it on, or maybe they are nervous...if thats the case, then he should not be playing professionally...booting it anywhere is a house league play.

But it is also something that Carver can get his team to work on, i believe that this is something that you can teach and train your defensive players to do. Too many balls are given up because of these bone head plays.

If I can recognize this, and Carver hasn't, then it is obvious that Carver is not the man for the job.

stretchthetruth
04-20-2009, 08:50 AM
I agree with Oblio to a degree, but the other teams are faced with the same problems and limitations. In season 1, that's fair but this team should be at least be competetive.

However I dont think the most is being made of the lineup we have. We play too inhibited, we don't play our best options, substitutions are usually too little too late, and we are predictable.


this problem is so glaringly obvious watching the games at BMO... my wife, who attends every game with me, but has no real knowledge of tactics, etc., says things like "why do they keep doing the same thing?" and "how come they never pass it to this guy over here?" (switch it cross-field to the open man)...

my point is, if she can see this, the other team is all over it, and thats why we cant build any pressure in the attacking area of the field... we definitely need to mix things up and get more creative...

Oblio2
04-20-2009, 08:53 AM
It could be worse, we could be Newcastle

Roogsy
04-20-2009, 08:53 AM
I think even an objective perspective on Mo Johnston's successes or failures as a general manager can say that, as things stand, he has created a seriously unbalanced team, with some good players but a number of glaring issues that make it unable to compete.

My fear is that Carver might actually be a decent coach. But under the current conditions his job is exceptionally difficult.

There are three major problems:

1) Mo's defensive signings haven't really panned out. We've got two converted midfielders playing centre half, back up by the two gambians, 18 and 17 with no real pro experience, and Marco Velez. That's a shambles, a travesty of a defensive lineup after three seasons. That alone has probably been the biggest factor in not stepping to the next level. Jimmy, though much loved, is a better offensive than defensive player at this level and stage of his career. Wynne looks the real deal most of the time this year. The rest is... abysmal. Marshall and Olivier Tebily were the only two real defenders we've had in three years and both are gone.

2) In almost every position, Mo has signed a player that has one big upside, but numerous downsides, so that their one or two impressive elements give them some sheen that later wears off, when you see how they can't work together. Barrett works hard, but can't finish (most of the time.) Guevara has huge offensive upside, but drifts out of games defensively, leaving Robbo to cover too much ground. Robinson, meanwhile, tackles and marks really well, but his distribution this year has been awful and he showed in the Seattle game he can be mentally off. DeRo, all offense, no defense. Our wingers are inept, most of the time.

Instead of having guys with a balanced set of skills that will slot them well into a team environment, coupled with two or three exceptional players to lead, we have a lot of headcases and unmotivated performers with impressive singular sets of skills.

3) After nearly a thousand days of TFC, we've yet to see either a proven striker or a DP-quality game changer. So far, DeRo's about half way there.

I'm not suggesting Carver deserves a free pass, as there are tactical ways these problems could be minimized, including simplifying our approach and getting these assclowns to maintain their shape for longer than six minutes.

But let's call this for what it is: Mo's utter failure to sign even a handful of well-rounded and consistently competitive players. When three years in you have Kevin Harmse starting at centre back, Ibee and defensive central mid Sam Cronin starting on the wings, and both Guevara and Dero on the pitch at the same time, it's a recipe for disaster.

Unless major changes are made to solidify a focussed and balanced lineup, we're fucked again this year.

I would like to see this article in your next Sun submission Jeremy! LOL! These exact words, no changes.

And I agree on all points, including that we are fucked this year. I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel right now.

jabbronies
04-20-2009, 08:55 AM
So many problems.....so so many problems

Ossington Mental Youth
04-20-2009, 08:59 AM
For the record i thought that Barretts goal was nice, he showed alot of composure adn i think itll help with his rhythm alot

ExiledRed
04-20-2009, 09:04 AM
For the record i thought that Barretts goal was nice, he showed alot of composure adn i think itll help with his rhythm alot

He hesitated, nearly let the defender break his attack and almost put it wide.

Let me put it this way, if he hadn't scored that goal, there would be no more argument about Barrett.

Luckily for him, he did it (just)

jabbronies
04-20-2009, 09:06 AM
I thought it was composure, not hesitation.

And this is coming from a Barrett doubter!

ExiledRed
04-20-2009, 09:16 AM
If he'd shown much composure at any other time this season, I could be persuaded to see it like that.

He didnt look very composed when he yelled 'fuck off' to the linesman though.

S_D
04-20-2009, 09:21 AM
He hesitated, nearly let the defender break his attack and almost put it wide.

Let me put it this way, if he hadn't scored that goal, there would be no more argument about Barrett.

Luckily for him, he did it (just)

The Barrett enigma: when Barrett rushes it he misses the net lol. That is where he needs to improve. When he has a chance to think he can sink them, but if he has too much time he flubs it.

Kickit09
04-20-2009, 09:36 AM
How long do we have to suffer with Mo until some people realize this clown is clueless and couldn't put together a winning team if he fixed the special olympics. Mo might have been a decent player but his managerial career is terrible, going all the way back to NYRB where he was fired after 12 games in his first full season as head coach. He did even worse as coach of TFC, and he's not doing much better as the GM. some players just make terrible coaches/managers. If we didn't live in a city content with losers he would of been gone 2 years ago. I really hope Mo isn't the next JP fuckin riccardi, but it sure looks that way.

:hulk:

Cashcleaner
04-20-2009, 12:36 PM
Look. Carver works with what he's given.
Mo works with what he can get. As I said in another post, this league is shit and you will only get a) young, unproven talent (see Gambians) b) Older players who are nearing retirement or c) North Americans who really, in the Grand Scheme, aren't that good .

This league is terrible, therefore lots of players stay away. This league plays out of whack, timewise with the rest of the world, therefore, players stay away. This league has some of the worst refereeing I have ever seen, players talk-Players stay away and finally, this league has a salary cap so, players don't want to limit their earning potential, therefore they stay away. The reputation of this league isn't great, players look at it as "Mickey Mouse" and ...stay away
Mo simply cannot get the talent because the talent doesn't want to come here to this third rate league.
There are exceptions, in players such as Robbo and DeRo but for the most part, the talent doesn't come.
So, Mo works with what he can. Carver works with, what he can. Do you really think replacing Mo or Carver will make a difference, especially at this point?

M'eh. We can only blame the league so much and even then, its a hard argument to take all that seriously when you consider that we're still currently operating under the cap and have an unused DP slot that's collecting dust.

Exiled made a good point about our predictability and I gotta admit, that's a real big problem I see us having. My best guess is that Carver is using the sort of amateur Conference 2 basic tactics that they teach you in your first week of pro coaching and he's assuming its advanced enough to get away with in MLS. All said, I think he is greatly underestimating the skill of the other coaches in the league and has to start mixing things up on the pitch.

jloome
04-20-2009, 12:49 PM
The Carver issues aren't without merit. But the reason I put most of this down to personnel is simple: it still comes down to players fulfilling their roles, and that isn't happening.

To whit:
* Neither Guevara nor Derosario play defence; thus, having them both in the mid becomes next to impossible. Yes, Guevara is a former MVP and an offensive force. He's also a defensive liability about 50% of the time.
* We have a total of two starting wingers in Smith and Ricketts, and it's possible neither will be consistent enough to remain as a starter. Cronin is a central holder/two-way midfielder who has been forced into the role. Where is the depth? Where are the options in case we have issues with a 20-year-old second div. washout or a talented headcase who also has bounced around?
* Robbo cannot possibly cover an entire defensive third on his own then still be expected to have the legs to turn quickly and provide good service.
* Enough has been said about the entire defence's performance already.

Let's face it, it's a badly unbalanced squad. And while we can bitch all we want about how tough it is to get MLS players, three-quarters of Seattle's team, including Brad Evans, Oswaldo Alonso and our own Ty Marshall, are castoffs. Every one of those players would improve us right now, and Alonso may well end out an MVP finalist. He's easily as good as Shalrie Joseph; and he was available for 18 months with no one in MLS stepping up.

As for the striker issue, we all know there is an easy -- albeit, not cheap -- solution to that. And we've been told repeatedly that Mo has MLSE's go ahead to pull the trigger on a DP.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2009, 12:59 PM
We have DeRo - Proven in MLS and has won championships
Guevera - Former MLS MVP on the decline. For every good offensive move there's a ton of poor passes, flops, and defensive lapses.
Robo - Best holding midfielder
Dichio - On the bench but still a force on the field
Ibby - Young and full of lots of potential. Shouldn't be on the wing should one day be playing striker.
Vitti - Has not been given a chance to really show what hes all about but I think if he is given the opporunity to start maybe he could be a good striker upfront
Serioux - Monster. Good defender.
Marvel - Used to be the Fastest player in the MLS but as fast as he is, he still crosses horribly and gets caught out of position more than anyone not named Velez on the roster.


Added a few and some edits to the above posted ones.

Brennan - Obviously lost some pace.
Cronin - Not bad but sometimes shows he is a rookie. Has a future but probably shouldn't be starting when Robbo is out there.
Barrett - Maybe will start rolling but still lacks any type of quality finishing.
Nana - Should get a shot in the place of Harmse.
Harmse - Bench
Velez - USL, if anyone wants him

TFCREDNWHITE
04-20-2009, 01:00 PM
Carver is NOT the problem!!

Our players need to take a long hard look in the mirror adn then proceed to PUKE!! because it's disgusting!!!

Northern Soul
04-20-2009, 01:05 PM
I said this in another thread:

I think we need to address some positions...and soon. We have Edwards/Sutton who we don't need both of. Why do we need 3 keepers? We have Guevara who has never shown the heart he has for Honduras when wearing a TFC shirt. I say trade him.

Trade these assets for a CB and competent winger. Cronin isn't a winger, and as well as Ibrahim has played, he certainly isn't a game-changer.

We can drop DeRo back into Guevara's midfield role and play Dichio & Vitti/Barrett (if necessary) up front.

TFC Tifoso
04-20-2009, 01:11 PM
The Carver issues aren't without merit. But the reason I put most of this down to personnel is simple: it still comes down to players fulfilling their roles, and that isn't happening.

To whit:
* Neither Guevara nor Derosario play defence; thus, having them both in the mid becomes next to impossible. Yes, Guevara is a former MVP and an offensive force. He's also a defensive liability about 50% of the time.
* We have a total of two starting wingers in Smith and Ricketts, and it's possible neither will be consistent enough to remain as a starter. Cronin is a central holder/two-way midfielder who has been forced into the role. Where is the depth? Where are the options in case we have issues with a 20-year-old second div. washout or a talented headcase who also has bounced around?
* Robbo cannot possibly cover an entire defensive third on his own then still be expected to have the legs to turn quickly and provide good service.
* Enough has been said about the entire defence's performance already.

Let's face it, it's a badly unbalanced squad. And while we can bitch all we want about how tough it is to get MLS players, three-quarters of Seattle's team, including Brad Evans, Oswaldo Alonso and our own Ty Marshall, are castoffs. Every one of those players would improve us right now, and Alonso may well end out an MVP finalist. He's easily as good as Shalrie Joseph; and he was available for 18 months with no one in MLS stepping up.

As for the striker issue, we all know there is an easy -- albeit, not cheap -- solution to that. And we've been told repeatedly that Mo has MLSE's go ahead to pull the trigger on a DP.

I would like to counter some of your points.....by no means am I defending Mo, but he has put together a squad that is capable of a better performance only if the coach uses his brain a little.....

- DeRo or Guevara can't play D.....correct.......a problem that can be solved by playing Robbo and Cronin in between the mids and defence (worked in KC....our only win this year)
- concerning the wingers.....we do have two, however, we also have Guevara and DeRo, two very very experienced players who IMO could do a good job playing on the wing. Instead Carver chooses to play a 17 year old kid out of position.
- all the while the club's all-time leading scorer albeit in a short history is left to rot on the bench for no apparent reason in his final year with the club....a player who far and away is the smartest player when on the field.
- there is some problem on defense, I will give you that....however, it is a problem of 1 CB (Serioux has been very good this year).....if a manager can't overcome 1 glaring weakness in the starting XI, then I don't know what to say really.

Who is at fault there?. I will say it a million times if I have to, coaching a stacked team is easy.....a manager's true wealth comes in his ability to identify his team's weaknesses and use the players at his disposal to stop it......Carver has not done this. A great manager can get his players to play above and beyond potential.....Carver cannot do this....TFC only plays at or below potential.

MoJo is not perfect,, far from it, but IMHO, this team that he has put together this year should have more than 1 win. Please stop painting Carver as a victim here (not specifically you jloome, and the post is not directed at you either......just countering some points of what some of us believe are TFC's main problems).

TFC Tifoso
04-20-2009, 01:12 PM
Edit....double post

mclaren
04-20-2009, 01:20 PM
Agreed - Mo should have been fired a long time ago. Tough but true.

mclaren
04-20-2009, 01:21 PM
It could be worse, we could be Newcastle

yup :hat:

jloome
04-20-2009, 01:21 PM
I would like to counter some of your points.....by no means am I defending Mo, but he has put together a squad that is capable of a better performance only if the coach uses his brain a little.....

- DeRo or Guevara can't play D.....correct.......a problem that can be solved by playing Robbo and Cronin in between the mids and defence (worked in KC....our only win this year)
- concerning the wingers.....we do have two, however, we also have Guevara and DeRo, two very very experienced players who IMO could do a good job playing on the wing. Instead Carver chooses to play a 17 year old kid out of position.
- all the while the club's all-time leading scorer albeit in a short history is left to rot on the bench for no apparent reason in his final year with the club....a player who far and away is the smartest player when on the field.
- there is some problem on defense, I will give you that....however, it is a problem of 1 CB (Serioux has been very good this year).....if a manager can't overcome 1 glaring weakness in the starting XI, then I don't know what to say really.

Who is at fault there?. I will say it a million times if I have to, coaching a stacked team is easy.....a manager's true wealth comes in his ability to identify his team's weaknesses and use the players at his disposal to stop it......Carver has not done this. A great manager can get his players to play above and beyond potential.....Carver cannot do this....TFC only plays at or below potential.

MoJo is not perfect,, far from it, but IMHO, this team that he has put together this year should have more than 1 win. Please stop painting Carver as a victim here (not specifically you jloome, and the post is not directed at you either......just countering some points of what some of us believe are TFC's main problems).

I don't deny that some of your suggestions would improve our situation. But getting Guevara and DeRosario to move to the wing and be effective is not as simple as you suggest. For one, neither wants to play there, and both are famously fiery and temperamental. Again, we shouldn't have to play players out of position: we should have the right players for the right posititions; that's Mo's responsibility.

Yes, coaches have to work with shortcomings and personalities. But one of them usually isn't having to routinely play people out of their natural positions just to field a team!

I think you're obviously right about playing Cronin and Robbo centrally; but I think it's a leap to say he'd be able to pull off moving both DeRo and Guevara wide.

And it's simply not the case that the only place we're really hooped is CB. We have one functioning CB right now (Serioux, and he's still inconsistent) and Velez, who seems to have become the team's official translator, and that's all.

We have zero depth at any position outside of centrla midfield. At striker, we don't have a proper number one, so depth is a bit of a non issue.

We have Robbo and Cronin, so yes, that's a good place to start building from, tactically. But geez, we're short beyond that.

I've been critical of Carver's tactics and I still wonder why we're so complex, in terms of support movement and willingness of players to drift well out of their zone -- consequently screwing up the team's shape. But I also think he may be trying to get blood from a stone in terms of work ethic, passion and positional awarness from some of these guys.

Cambridge_Red
04-20-2009, 01:21 PM
It could be worse, we could be Newcastle

Give it some time :D

S_D
04-20-2009, 01:45 PM
The Carver issues aren't without merit. But the reason I put most of this down to personnel is simple: it still comes down to players fulfilling their roles, and that isn't happening.

To whit:
* Neither Guevara nor Derosario play defence; thus, having them both in the mid becomes next to impossible. Yes, Guevara is a former MVP and an offensive force. He's also a defensive liability about 50% of the time.
* We have a total of two starting wingers in Smith and Ricketts, and it's possible neither will be consistent enough to remain as a starter. Cronin is a central holder/two-way midfielder who has been forced into the role. Where is the depth? Where are the options in case we have issues with a 20-year-old second div. washout or a talented headcase who also has bounced around?
* Robbo cannot possibly cover an entire defensive third on his own then still be expected to have the legs to turn quickly and provide good service.


I will agree we have an unbalanced squad for wing play. TFC has the squad to play a 4-2-2-2 with Guevara and Dero as the attacking mid role, and Cronin and Robbo as the defensive mids. The wings would be wide open and I don't think TFC could withstand that type of attack. We aren't Brazil.

If the want wide mids, 1 of the D mids has to go to the bench and 1 of the attacking mids has to sit too and go to more of a 442 diamond formation. Sitting Cronin wouldn't bother me but I think we would want both Guevara and Dero on, and they aren't wingers. I don't think we have the forwards to go with only 1.

TFC Tifoso
04-20-2009, 01:46 PM
I don't deny that some of your suggestions would improve our situation. But getting Guevara and DeRosario to move to the wing and be effective is not as simple as you suggest. For one, neither wants to play there, and both are famously fiery and temperamental. Again, we shouldn't have to play players out of position: we should have the right players for the right posititions; that's Mo's responsibility.

Yes, coaches have to work with shortcomings and personalities. But one of them usually isn't having to routinely play people out of their natural positions just to field a team!

I think you're obviously right about playing Cronin and Robbo centrally; but I think it's a leap to say he'd be able to pull off moving both DeRo and Guevara wide.

And it's simply not the case that the only place we're really hooped is CB. We have one functioning CB right now (Serioux, and he's still inconsistent) and Velez, who seems to have become the team's official translator, and that's all.

We have zero depth at any position outside of centrla midfield. At striker, we don't have a proper number one, so depth is a bit of a non issue.

We have Robbo and Cronin, so yes, that's a good place to start building from, tactically. But geez, we're short beyond that.

I've been critical of Carver's tactics and I still wonder why we're so complex, in terms of support movement and willingness of players to drift well out of their zone -- consequently screwing up the team's shape. But I also think he may be trying to get blood from a stone in terms of work ethic, passion and positional awarness from some of these guys.

No no, I'm not saying to play both Guevara and DeRo out wide.....one can, the other stays in central mid. Regardless of what a player "wants", sometimes the manager has to drop the hammer and, tell them "this is how it is".....after all who runs the team? Carver or the players?. Playing either out wide is certainly a better alternative than to play a 17 year old who is barely getting his feet wet in this league out of position IMO.

The starting XI had to be changed after KC out of necessity, but it truly blows my mind why Carver has not gone back to it after clearly seeing it was our most effective so far.....a lot of Carver's formation and tactical problems are self imposed by insisting on always tinkering with the starting XI.

ensco
04-20-2009, 01:52 PM
It could be worse, we could be Newcastle

Heard a great chant directed at Newcastle fans on the weekend.....

(to the tune of "Roll out the barrel"....)

Down with the Baggies! Down with the Baggies, you go.....

Pachuco
04-20-2009, 03:01 PM
I gotta say I feel Mo has built a team that is better then what is showing on the field right now. Heck, since last year this team to me has been underperforming based on the players on the roster.

Has he built a team that can go all the way? probably not, but in year 3, what most people expect this year is a 1st round playoff team and a team who can pass the ball around. I think you can take 18 year old rep players who play a better system then we do right now.

So I have to ask myself, if we don't make the playoffs this year, who is to blame? I would probably blame Mo for not getting that CB he kept promising. But at the same time, I think Carver bares most of the blame. To me it's simple, we have a team that has the quality on paper to make the playoffs and we are playing like the worst team in the league. This has to be on Carver, but that's just my opinion.

Carter
04-20-2009, 03:02 PM
It could be worse, we could be Newcastle


or Columbus...

Parkdale
04-20-2009, 03:12 PM
carter is the real problem.

ExiledRed
04-20-2009, 03:18 PM
Maybe we should ask for Goldthwaite (http://web.mlsnet.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1503.v115042.c11504.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/11504/v0001/mlbmls.download.akamai.com/11504/2009/open/gp/04/mls_nynccf_4208087_400K.wmv&w_id=35798&catCode=mls_game_tv&type=v_free&gid=2009/04/18/rslmls-rbnmls-1&_mp=1) back.

Beach_Red
04-20-2009, 03:50 PM
Let's face it, it's a badly unbalanced squad.


Every MLS roster is unbalanced, that can't be an excuse anymore. There are coaches out there desperate for the great deal Carver has - complete input on player selections and zero meddling from management. Some of them might even be able toput together tactics that this unbalanced roster could succeed with.

Teams don't fear playing TFC, they know exactly what we'll bring. They don't even fear falling behind because they know we'll give up late goals.

There should be a DP striker right now but we'll have to accept it'll be one willing to play for a completely uninspiring, losing team that blames the ref for all their problems.

How many millions would you give a guy willing to be a part of that?

Hitcho
04-20-2009, 03:55 PM
I think even an objective perspective on Mo Johnston's successes or failures as a general manager can say that, as things stand, he has created a seriously unbalanced team, with some good players but a number of glaring issues that make it unable to compete.

My fear is that Carver might actually be a decent coach. But under the current conditions his job is exceptionally difficult.

There are three major problems:

1) Mo's defensive signings haven't really panned out. We've got two converted midfielders playing centre half, back up by the two gambians, 18 and 17 with no real pro experience, and Marco Velez. That's a shambles, a travesty of a defensive lineup after three seasons. That alone has probably been the biggest factor in not stepping to the next level. Jimmy, though much loved, is a better offensive than defensive player at this level and stage of his career. Wynne looks the real deal most of the time this year. The rest is... abysmal. Marshall and Olivier Tebily were the only two real defenders we've had in three years and both are gone.

2) In almost every position, Mo has signed a player that has one big upside, but numerous downsides, so that their one or two impressive elements give them some sheen that later wears off, when you see how they can't work together. Barrett works hard, but can't finish (most of the time.) Guevara has huge offensive upside, but drifts out of games defensively, leaving Robbo to cover too much ground. Robinson, meanwhile, tackles and marks really well, but his distribution this year has been awful and he showed in the Seattle game he can be mentally off. DeRo, all offense, no defense. Our wingers are inept, most of the time.

Instead of having guys with a balanced set of skills that will slot them well into a team environment, coupled with two or three exceptional players to lead, we have a lot of headcases and unmotivated performers with impressive singular sets of skills.

3) After nearly a thousand days of TFC, we've yet to see either a proven striker or a DP-quality game changer. So far, DeRo's about half way there.

I'm not suggesting Carver deserves a free pass, as there are tactical ways these problems could be minimized, including simplifying our approach and getting these assclowns to maintain their shape for longer than six minutes.

But let's call this for what it is: Mo's utter failure to sign even a handful of well-rounded and consistently competitive players. When three years in you have Kevin Harmse starting at centre back, Ibee and defensive central mid Sam Cronin starting on the wings, and both Guevara and Dero on the pitch at the same time, it's a recipe for disaster.

Unless major changes are made to solidify a focussed and balanced lineup, we're fucked again this year.

Kind of surprised about this post jloome, unless you're stoking the fires to get a debate going. On points 2 and 3 I think you're way off, and you;re usually much more on the money than that in my book. In reply:

1. Hard not to agree with much of what you say here, although Serioux has played at CB for CMNT, is strong in the air and in CB terms still reasonably young - how much more can TFC really ask for in a CB? I still think we're only one really good CB away from having a good defence in MLS terms.

2. Since when has any team been comprised entirely of "all rounder" type players, let alone a successful one? You need players like Robbo to mop up in front of defence as their main job, and players like Guevara to bring some flair to the attacking play (I actually think he workls his ass off defensively too though, there have been numerous times when you see him making interventions in his own penalty area from open play, for example). I would much rather see a team of XI players who have specialist skill in their area than XI players who are all nicely rounded and do a bit of everything ok but nothing particularly well. This is a football team, not a bunch ofplayers being assumed into the collective by the Borg.

3. There are other threads on this, but I don't agree that the lack of a DP is down to Mo. That's down to MLSE, unless you have seen a signed memo from MSLE to Mo giving him a blank cheque to bring in a DP without requiring further sign off from them that no-one else has. As for a proven striker - Cunny, although much maligned, was (I think) 5th highest MLS scorer in history when we got him and had pace to burn. As for a proven game changer - that's exactly what De Ro is, one of the most decorated and successful players in MLS history. Again, how much more can TFC realistically expect in a player?

To be clear, I'm not trying to shoot you down, just putting forward an opposing point of view!

Hitcho
04-20-2009, 03:59 PM
I don't deny that some of your suggestions would improve our situation. But getting Guevara and DeRosario to move to the wing and be effective is not as simple as you suggest. For one, neither wants to play there, and both are famously fiery and temperamental. Again, we shouldn't have to play players out of position: we should have the right players for the right posititions; that's Mo's responsibility.

Yes, coaches have to work with shortcomings and personalities. But one of them usually isn't having to routinely play people out of their natural positions just to field a team!

I think you're obviously right about playing Cronin and Robbo centrally; but I think it's a leap to say he'd be able to pull off moving both DeRo and Guevara wide.

And it's simply not the case that the only place we're really hooped is CB. We have one functioning CB right now (Serioux, and he's still inconsistent) and Velez, who seems to have become the team's official translator, and that's all.

We have zero depth at any position outside of centrla midfield. At striker, we don't have a proper number one, so depth is a bit of a non issue.

We have Robbo and Cronin, so yes, that's a good place to start building from, tactically. But geez, we're short beyond that.

I've been critical of Carver's tactics and I still wonder why we're so complex, in terms of support movement and willingness of players to drift well out of their zone -- consequently screwing up the team's shape. But I also think he may be trying to get blood from a stone in terms of work ethic, passion and positional awarness from some of these guys.

Dude, up front we have Barrett, Dichio, Vitti and OBW when fit, plus Ibbe is naturally a striker and De Ro can play there too. How do we not have depth up front?!

I agree with you that overall we lack depth in the squad, but that's down to the cap space. We had Goldthwaite but had to trade him to free up cap space. Marhsall was traded to create space for the CB that is yet to arrive yet. There isn't a single team in the MLS that can boast decent cover for all XI starting spots, because you just cannot fit that number of quality players under the cap. So whilst we lack depth, pointing the finger at Mo and/or Carver (or anyone inside the TFC set up) isn't really the answer. Point it at Garber instead mate!

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-20-2009, 04:37 PM
Carver is NOT the problem!!

Our players need to take a long hard look in the mirror adn then proceed to PUKE!! because it's disgusting!!!


Thank you!! our players need an ass kicking...not Carver or Mo....
its like the national team, the players dont show up and actually play.
Yet its the manager (s) that get the blame......

OK TFC players....Wednesday night vs Chivas show up or just leave TFC

TFCREDNWHITE
04-20-2009, 04:51 PM
TFC needs to watch the movie Swingers!!

Trent (http://www.moviemistakes.com/name1902): You know what you are? You're like a big bear with claws and with fangs...

Sue: ...big fucking teeth, man.

Trent (http://www.moviemistakes.com/name1902): Yeah... big fuckin' teeth on ya'. And she's just like this little bunny, who's just kinda cowering in the corner.

Sue: Shivering.

Trent (http://www.moviemistakes.com/name1902): Yeah, man just kinda... you know, you got these claws and you're staring at these claws and your thinking to yourself, and with these claws you're thinking, "How am I supposed to kill this bunny, how am I supposed to kill this bunny?"

Sue: And you're poking at it, you're poking at it...

Trent (http://www.moviemistakes.com/name1902): Yeah, you're not hurting it. You're just kinda gently batting the bunny around, you know what I mean? And the bunny's scared Mike, the bunny's scared of you, shivering.

Sue: And you got these fucking claws and these fangs...

Trent (http://www.moviemistakes.com/name1902): And you got these fucking claws and these fangs, man! And you're looking at your claws and you're looking at your fangs. And you're thinking to yourself, you don't know what to do, man. "I don't know how to kill the bunny." With *this* you don't know how to kill the bunny, do you know what I mean?
Sue: You're like a big bear, man.

craigtfc
04-20-2009, 05:08 PM
Come back Collin Samuel all is forgiven!! HAHAHAHAHA

jloome
04-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Dude, up front we have Barrett, Dichio, Vitti and OBW when fit, plus Ibbe is naturally a striker and De Ro can play there too. How do we not have depth up front?!

I agree with you that overall we lack depth in the squad, but that's down to the cap space. We had Goldthwaite but had to trade him to free up cap space. Marhsall was traded to create space for the CB that is yet to arrive yet. There isn't a single team in the MLS that can boast decent cover for all XI starting spots, because you just cannot fit that number of quality players under the cap. So whilst we lack depth, pointing the finger at Mo and/or Carver (or anyone inside the TFC set up) isn't really the answer. Point it at Garber instead mate!

Overall, our entire upfront striker contingent does not have one single proven regular 10-goal per season player. And you think we have depth? I'm talking about getting a hired gun, a player guaranteed to score 10 or 15. There are guys like that at every level, and if we have the financial capacity to get one -- which we do -- the problem is easily solved.

But it should be glaringly obvious by their play so far that the current contingent is not going to feature a breakout scorer, short of new revelations from Vitti.

As for depth compared to other MLS squads, that's hardly ideal, given that eight or nine of the 14 are of USL standard or below, in terms not necessarily of individual skill but certainly of team performance. We should be aiming for the kind of balanced and competitive squads that Chicago, Seattle, Salt Lake and Chivas all have. That's what we should be close to, after three years. Instead, we're still two key players away -- a striker and a centre back -- and we have very little competitive depth.

AS to the second point, it's not about them being "all-rounders" , it's about them having a reasonably balanced character, in terms of thinking the game versus playing the game. If you've got a team full of guys who can't keep their head in the game, it doesn't really matter how individually talented they are.

I'd suggest we have a team full of guys lacking focus and, perhaps, Carver exacerbates that by being a player's coach and not being tough on them.

Either way, the description you provide, Hitcho, is of the eight or nine weak teams in the league, not the strong ones. Saying, effectively, that we're just as bad as most of the rest of the league? Well, that would definitely be Mo's fault. He's the manager.

bhoybobby
04-20-2009, 05:15 PM
this problem is so glaringly obvious watching the games at BMO... my wife, who attends every game with me, but has no real knowledge of tactics, etc., says things like "why do they keep doing the same thing?" and "how come they never pass it to this guy over here?" (switch it cross-field to the open man)...

my point is, if she can see this, the other team is all over it, and thats why we cant build any pressure in the attacking area of the field... we definitely need to mix things up and get more creative...

It's a simple game, usually when professional players don't do the glaringly obvious, it's because they have been instructed to play through certain channels by the manager to suit his tactical game plan.

If that's the case, then the tactics are wrong &, or, the players have had intuition coached out of them.

If it's not the case, then maybe we're just shite, either way, it had better get fixed. Starting with a DP sweeper/C.B.

Clearly the talent on view is not good enough, or hasn't gelled as a team, probably a combo of both. That been said, you can't legislate for what DeRo & Wynne combined to do can you?

Beach_Red
04-20-2009, 05:59 PM
Instead, we're still two key players away -- a striker and a centre back -- and we have very little competitive depth.



That's really the question because the last three games have shown us a team that seems a lot more than two key players away.

And yet, most people would agree that our roster is better than we've been playing.

The lack of consistency from this team is the only consistent thing we've seen. The first year it was excusable. the second season that excuse started to sound hollow and there's no excuse for it now.

rocker
04-20-2009, 06:19 PM
We should be aiming for the kind of balanced and competitive squads that Chicago,

Chicago got good because of Blanco. I remember calculating their record before and after Blanco, and it was a big difference. They've put some nice parts together since then, and done well without him so far this season, but they did just tie against KC at home (a team people on here said a few weeks ago was shit, and TFC shouldn't take any pride in beating them).

I believe most teams in MLS are teeter-tottering on the edge. We'll see what happens to Chicago when Blanco leaves at the end of the year.

Look at Seattle -- they lose Keller and lose 2 games in a row (I think Keller would have had at least one, if not 2, of those Chivas goals).

I just think the difference between a decent team and a great team in MLS is not much, chemistry is more important than stars, and losing 1 or 2 key players can doom your team.

ExiledRed
04-20-2009, 06:28 PM
Chicago got good because of Blanco. I remember calculating their record before and after Blanco, and it was a big difference. They've put some nice parts together since then, and done well without him so far this season, but they did just tie against KC at home (a team people on here said a few weeks ago was shit, and TFC shouldn't take any pride in beating them).

I believe most teams in MLS are teeter-tottering on the edge. We'll see what happens to Chicago when Blanco leaves at the end of the year.

Look at Seattle -- they lose Keller and lose 2 games in a row (I think Keller would have had at least one, if not 2, of those Chivas goals).

I just think the difference between a decent team and a great team in MLS is not much, chemistry is more important than stars, and losing 1 or 2 key players can doom your team.

If the conversation was about a DP, you'd be saying we dont need one.

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-20-2009, 06:31 PM
with luck we wont lose too many canadian players for the gold cup...i hope the players remember who pays their cheque when the time comes...TFC cant afford to lose players to a tournament that is not really all that important...the League should come first for these players...

tlear
04-20-2009, 06:49 PM
I really do not think we suck that bad.. we scored 6 goals on the road.. in 3 games how is that bad?

Our only truly terrible game was vs Seattle. Other games it could have went either way. Yesterday we could have won or lost that.. we had chances, we converted some in the end we got done by a really tricky ball to hand penalty.

Our D is questionable thats for sure, Harmse really does not belong there and Jimmy is better on offense then on D.

Striker wise, Barret will score 10 this year if Carver sticks with him. He is a hardworking mental case, but now that he scored he will keep doing it.. he is not Cunny.

Personally I thought Ibrahim is really becoming something special, both Guevara and De Ro are playing well and in some cases great. I am still very confident that we will get into playoffs with room to spare.

Great CB would have made us into a steamroller probably. What Mo should do is go for a half season DP CB in summer.. just imo.

Pachuco
04-20-2009, 06:54 PM
with luck we wont lose too many canadian players for the gold cup...i hope the players remember who pays their cheque when the time comes...TFC cant afford to lose players to a tournament that is not really all that important...the League should come first for these players...

Mo can sign anyone he wants. If we lose Canadians to the Gold Cup then he knew that was coming. That is on Mo, NOT the players. The players have the right to play for their country, and it's ludicrous that you would think they don't because someone else pays their cheque.

TFC USA
04-20-2009, 06:55 PM
I really do not think we suck that bad.. we scored 6 goals on the road.. in 3 games how is that bad?

Think about that statement.

We scored 6 goals. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We conceded 6 as well. Boo

We conceded 9 overall. Boo.

We gained 4 out of a possible 9 points on the road. Whoo.

We currently have 5 points out of a possible 15, with dropped points against a team that didn't have a win until yesterday, and a mediocre Columbus team.

Sure!!! We don't suck at all!

giambac
04-20-2009, 07:16 PM
Think about that statement.

We scored 6 goals. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We conceded 6 as well. Boo

We conceded 9 overall. Boo.

We gained 4 out of a possible 9 points on the road. Whoo.

We currently have 5 points out of a possible 15, with dropped points against a team that didn't have a win until yesterday, and a mediocre Columbus team.

Sure!!! We don't suck at all!

to some people 33% is good (5 out 15 points).
I wonder how they faired in school?
Maybe they think it is baseball where a .333 batting average is good.

You just can't reason with some.

Pachuco
04-20-2009, 07:21 PM
to some people 33% is good (5 out 15 points).
I wonder how they faired in school?
Maybe they think it is baseball where a .333 batting average is good.

You just can't reason with some.

this is what I say to those that try to spin the numbers in a positive way.

We are 2 points out of last place :eek:.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-20-2009, 10:16 PM
The starting XI had to be changed after KC out of necessity, but it truly blows my mind why Carver has not gone back to it after clearly seeing it was our most effective so far.....a lot of Carver's formation and tactical problems are self imposed by insisting on always tinkering with the starting XI.


this has come as bit of a surprise to me too, especially as Vitti isnt playing

rocker
04-20-2009, 10:18 PM
this is what I say to those that try to spin the numbers in a positive way.

We are 2 points out of last place :eek:.

we're closer to the playoffs than last place (1 point).
6 teams are in our position or worse.

We're 1 win from 4th of 15 teams.

your spin is the same as mine... and we're both right.

This is MLS, get used to it ;)

Nobody will be out of the playoffs until 3 weeks or fewer are left in the season.

poppamidnight
04-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Question: Why in the blue hell are people in here writing off Vitti?

Correct me if im wrong but he's:

a - Only got 1 start (Columbus) - and in that start looked like our most dangerous attacker (yes - looked more dangerous than Barret or De Ro)
b - Is/has been (at least as of 2 weeks ago) noticeably still bothered by his knee

Once we have a healthy, match-fit vitti i think we're set...
...Barret can be a brace till OBW is good to go (hopefully for the stretch run)

Why are we writing him off?

Why are we not blaming the problem on THE MOST LOGICAL CAUSE (that knee)?

ExiledRed
04-20-2009, 11:04 PM
Question: Why in the blue hell are people in here writing off Vitti?

Correct me if im wrong but he's:

a - Only got 1 start (Columbus) - and in that start looked like our most dangerous attacker (yes - looked more dangerous than Barret or De Ro)
b - Is/has been (at least as of 2 weeks ago) noticeably still bothered by his knee

Once we have a healthy, match-fit vitti i think we're set...
...Barret can be a brace till OBW is good to go (hopefully for the stretch run)

Why are we writing him off?

Why are we not blaming the problem on THE MOST LOGICAL CAUSE (that knee)?

a) I agree Vitti hasn't been given a chance to prove himself, I want him up front as Dichio's strike partner ASAP. The real question though, is why in the blue hell are people writing off Dichio?

b) you're the only one reporting on that knee, and you're not an official source.

poppamidnight
04-21-2009, 12:01 AM
a) I agree Vitti hasn't been given a chance to prove himself, I want him up front as Dichio's strike partner ASAP. The real question though, is why in the blue hell are people writing off Dichio?

b) you're the only one reporting on that knee, and you're not an official source.


It's an empirical observation made off the Toronto FC episode where he's limping around in the background with a fatty back of Ice-wrapped oround his knee

Scientist observe, then come to LOGICAL conclusions:

The Earth is Flat.
Man hobbling around with ice on his knee = something is wrong with his elbow????

I think not my friend, I think not

Stop being so pessimistic trying to 'one up' fellow posters douchey-mc-doucherson,
or you'll get proven wrong by not checking your facts:

Roll The Tape (Lets all go to Toronto FC TV)!!!! Show the man limping, and prove this clown wrong!

Dunkers
04-21-2009, 12:26 AM
I do not like Carvers coaching style. Micro-managing has no place in the head coach role. Im soo tired of Carver walking up and down the pitch yelling at the player...what do they do in practice? the last thing a struggling player needs is someone yelling from the bench, making him focus on the coach and the play in front of him...No other coach in the MLS does this as regularly as Carver. That sytle works great in practice, make the players think, get the ideas into the players head while the play is developing, but please stop doing it in the game. Do your job in training and shut the hell up durring the game.

Chevy
04-21-2009, 12:27 AM
this problem is so glaringly obvious watching the games at BMO... my wife, who attends every game with me, but has no real knowledge of tactics, etc., says things like "why do they keep doing the same thing?" and "how come they never pass it to this guy over here?" (switch it cross-field to the open man)...

my point is, if she can see this, the other team is all over it, and thats why we cant build any pressure in the attacking area of the field... we definitely need to mix things up and get more creative...

Carver is too occupied chatting up the 4th official to notice.

ExiledRed
04-21-2009, 12:33 AM
It's an empirical observation made off the Toronto FC episode where he's limping around in the background with a fatty back of Ice-wrapped oround his knee

Scientist observe, then come to LOGICAL conclusions:

The Earth is Flat.
Man hobbling around with ice on his knee = something is wrong with his elbow????

I think not my friend, I think not

Stop being so pessimistic trying to 'one up' fellow posters douchey-mc-doucherson,
or you'll get proven wrong by not checking your facts:

Roll The Tape (Lets all go to Toronto FC TV)!!!! Show the man limping, and prove this clown wrong!

Oh fuck the hell off, with your insults.

douchey-mc-doucherson? are you for real?

I'd rather you just called me a 'shite talking cunt' like bobby would.

If Vitti's problem is serious he shouldn't even be on the bench, or Carver should be fired. That clip was from weeks ago, and minor twinges and strains are commonplace and usually not an issue for more than a couple of days. He didnt play with a brace, and there are no reports of an injury, until there are I'm not speculating about it.

jloome
04-21-2009, 06:19 PM
Oh fuck the hell off, with your insults.

douchey-mc-doucherson? are you for real?

I'd rather you just called me a 'shite talking cunt' like bobby would.

If Vitti's problem is serious he shouldn't even be on the bench, or Carver should be fired. That clip was from weeks ago, and minor twinges and strains are commonplace and usually not an issue for more than a couple of days. He didnt play with a brace, and there are no reports of an injury, until there are I'm not speculating about it.

Plus, he cited the Earth as being flat as a logical conclusion of having seen it, which is about 300 years out of date. You gotta learn Ex, there are obvious differences on these board between the people who like to argue and the ones with enough firing synapses to actually pull of a rational debate.

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-21-2009, 06:31 PM
Mo can sign anyone he wants. If we lose Canadians to the Gold Cup then he knew that was coming. That is on Mo, NOT the players. The players have the right to play for their country, and it's ludicrous that you would think they don't because someone else pays their cheque.


he has to have so many north american players on the roster so he cant just sign anyone he wants...Club before country..we all know canada will be 3 and out at the gold cup..so send the U-20s for experience and leave the pros with their clubs

TFC USA
04-21-2009, 06:50 PM
he has to have so many north american players on the roster so he cant just sign anyone he wants...Club before country..we all know canada will be 3 and out at the gold cup..so send the U-20s for experience and leave the pros with their clubs

Just like at the last one right?

Signed,

Benito Archundia

Beach_Red
04-21-2009, 06:53 PM
a) The real question though, is why in the blue hell are people writing off Dichio?




Good question.

And I want to know why the team is keeping him around if they aren't going to play him. Is this some weird schedule management where Dichio will start late in the season when we're struggling to make the playoffs and then if we make it he'll start in the playoffs?

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-21-2009, 07:09 PM
Just like at the last one right?

Signed,

Benito Archundia


just like the WCQ...the team is the same...and so will be the results....

as far at the TFC roster ...the players have got to produce or time to ship some out