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View Full Version : Ottawa Stadium Situation Could Have A Solution



Red CB Toronto
04-15-2009, 01:26 PM
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/plan+combines+soccer+football/1497137/story.html

Interesting read, with the notion of the CFL and Soccer both being in Kanata.

sully
04-15-2009, 02:02 PM
so if they share I guess a plastic pitch is a given... I wonder what their plan is to deal with the all those field lines is?

..and from my perspective, a proper stadium should be in the city centre or thereabouts...I wouldn't have bought my season tickets in October '06 if they had put BMO out in Oakville or Mississauga..

Marc"2L"
04-15-2009, 03:02 PM
This is insane. I don't know 1 person in Ottawa who thinks this is a good idea. The comments on the article seem to imply the same thing. Yet some how they aren't getting the hint.

MLS supporters need to start a soccer in the city campaign for Ottawa and any other subsequent city that joins MLS.

rocker
04-15-2009, 03:10 PM
wait, so the Hunt group is going to sell their conditional CFL franchise to Melnyk?

i guess the Hunt group is happy with having the arena renovated and getting in on that Landsdowne non-sports development.

seems like Melnyk has won.

Downtown would be ideal, I know, but Kanata is closer to downtown than many current MLS stadiums. So it shouldn't hinder the deal, in Garber's eyes.

Blazer
04-15-2009, 03:15 PM
so if they share I guess a plastic pitch is a given... I wonder what their plan is to deal with the all those field lines is?

..and from my perspective, a proper stadium should be in the city centre or thereabouts...I wouldn't have bought my season tickets in October '06 if they had put BMO out in Oakville or Mississauga..

Garber has made it clear that he doesn’t want expansion unless the respective bids have plans for a grass only pitch. This will promote SSS and help grow the game in cities independent from a second “tenant”. Of at least that would be part of the hope.

Super Cereal
04-15-2009, 03:16 PM
This is insane. I don't know 1 person in Ottawa who thinks this is a good idea.

I think it's a fantastic idea. :)

sully
04-15-2009, 03:17 PM
Garber has made it clear that he doesn’t want expansion unless the respective bids have plans for a grass only pitch. This will promote SSS and help grow the game in cities independent from a second “tenant”. Of at least that would be part of the hope.

well Garber has shown that what he says and what actually happens sometimes are two different things...and anyway, I don't think its feasible to have a grass pitch if you're going to have Canadian football on it on a Sunday and MLS on a Wednesday and so on..

Blazer
04-15-2009, 03:20 PM
^ Agree on both points Sully.

Super Cereal
04-15-2009, 03:21 PM
well Garber has shown that what he says and what actually happens sometimes are two different things...and anyway, I don't think its feasible to have a grass pitch if you're going to have Canadian football on it on a Sunday and MLS on a Wednesday and so on..

Canadian football is traditionally on Fridays, Saturdays and Wednesdays isn't it?

sully
04-15-2009, 03:26 PM
Canadian football is traditionally on Fridays, Saturdays and Wednesdays isn't it?

I've no idea...but that's not the point.

rocker
04-15-2009, 03:33 PM
when did Garber say expansion teams must have a grass pitch?

cuz Vancouver won't (at least not until they get an SSS) and Seattle never will.

Kooper
04-15-2009, 03:55 PM
I've no idea...but that's not the point.

A grass pitch played on alternating weeks by soccer and football would quickly be destroyed.

Super Cereal
04-15-2009, 03:56 PM
I've no idea...but that's not the point.

Sure it is. MLS games are often Saturday and Wednesday.

Kooper
04-15-2009, 03:57 PM
I wonder what their plan is to deal with the all those field lines is?

BMO had lines for the 3 indoor fields on the turf until 2 weeks ago. They must use a water based paint that washes out or dilutes with a solvent.

Blazer
04-15-2009, 03:58 PM
He was on a few weeks ago, maybe more than a month even (Fan590) and said that grass, and more specifically SSS, were something to be desired.

I’ll see if I can find the interview.

Redcoe15
04-15-2009, 05:16 PM
Here's a different point of view:

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndRegion/2009/04/15/9116731-sun.html

rocker
04-15-2009, 05:36 PM
i don't really care if perfection is achieved with the Ottawa bid.
get em into MLS and we'll worry about the details later.
as long as they have an SSS (wherever) then they'll be secure for some time....

getting in is the hard part (as Saputo has learned) ;)

i just want another Canadian rivalry. to be honest i don't give a crap if they play on fieldturf or have to share with the CFL. it's not my hometeam.
plus, if the CFL team folds (FOR A THIRD TIME!) then there's the solution to the CFL lines problem. heh heh.

Mark in Ottawa
04-16-2009, 07:20 AM
And in the end it all comes down to money.

If the Feds, Province and City can agree to pony up without this effecting the infrastructure funds needed for the transit system and failing sewage treatment facilities then maybe... just maybe it has a chance.

Melnyk is not at all interested unless the stadium ends up in Kanata to meld with his other business interests under the Senators Sports and Entertainment banner.

drewski
04-16-2009, 07:29 AM
god I hope this happens. Not only do I like having a close Canadian rival in MLS, but if my interview went well yesterday, then it'll be great to have an MLS team in my city, in the area I'd probably be living within pretty easy driving distance too which would be an extra bonus

Lucky Strike
04-16-2009, 07:53 AM
I seriously don't know what's wrong with these people: don't put the stadium in Kanata! It won't work. It's not like I want it to fail, but people can't delude themselves. It'd be like walking across the a busy 417 highway blindfolded and hope the cars don't use your innards as spray paint.

I'll be the first on to eat my hat if MLS in Kanata does work, but I genuinely don't see that happening.

Cashcleaner
04-16-2009, 11:29 AM
Garber has made it clear that he doesn’t want expansion unless the respective bids have plans for a grass only pitch. This will promote SSS and help grow the game in cities independent from a second “tenant”. Of at least that would be part of the hope.

Got a link?

ilikemusic
04-16-2009, 12:16 PM
If either team goes anywhere but a renovated Landsdowne they are doomed to failure.


Got a link?

Ya, Garber says alot of things.

In reality, you should take every statement Garber makes and add 'ideally' to the beginning.

greatwhitenorf
04-16-2009, 07:20 PM
This is excellent news!

Soccer will win!

Just get the stadium built on Huge-ene Melnyk's terms. Let the CFL have it's final kick at the can. It will soon die.

Then soccer will be left to prosper on its own.

Mark in Ottawa
04-16-2009, 09:55 PM
This is excellent news!

Soccer will win!

Just get the stadium built on Huge-ene Melnyk's terms. Let the CFL have it's final kick at the can. It will soon die.

Then soccer will be left to prosper on its own.

But it won't be like hockey.
Senators Sports and Entertainment are gonna have to work hard to sell the sport and convince people to drive to Kanata.

I for one believe that if anyone can do it... Melnyk and company can!

Dirk Diggler
04-17-2009, 12:25 AM
This is excellent news!

Soccer will win!

Just get the stadium built on Huge-ene Melnyk's terms. Let the CFL have it's final kick at the can. It will soon die.

Then soccer will be left to prosper on its own.

LOL yeah. They'd only need to share the field with a football team for 3 years tops. After that it'll become an SSS and they could install natural grass or whatever modification that would be hindered due to a football team.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-17-2009, 12:29 AM
never gonna happen, even worse idea to share a stadium with a cfl team.
if they want one try for the usl id put money down that wouldnt be successful either

JamboAl
04-17-2009, 08:52 AM
I'm totally with Mark and Lucky Strike on this one. If MLS in Kanata survives past Year #4, I'd walk to the stadium from downtown wearing a sign saying "I was wrong". Also I probably am in Toronto way more than I am in Kanata and feel absolutely no affinity for the place.

Now a downtown location (or even something close to downtown), and I'll support it. Even if it's USL.

rocker
04-17-2009, 09:23 AM
If MLS in Kanata survives past Year #4,

i gotta ask you though, what does "survive" mean?

cuz I've seen teams in MLS "survive" with 9000-11000 fans a game. Ottawa can't get 9000-11000 or more than that?

MLS is designed so well financially that teams don't have to be like TFC and Seattle to survive.

I don't think Ottawa would be as successful as TFC.. but could they get 13,000-14,000.. I'm sure they could, and that's more than enough to survive beyond 4 years.

Redcoe15
04-17-2009, 09:30 AM
i gotta ask you though, what does "survive" mean?

cuz I've seen teams in MLS "survive" with 9000-11000 fans a game. Ottawa can't get 9000-11000 or more than that?

MLS is designed so well financially that teams don't have to be like TFC and Seattle to survive.

I don't think Ottawa would be as successful as TFC.. but could they get 13,000-14,000.. I'm sure they could.
And yet we complain, rightfully, about places like Columbus, Dallas, Kansas City who can't draw flies if they were covered in shit and ask why are they allowed to exist. If MLS grants them a team, I see Ottawa in that same catagory as well. Especially if their stadium is out in Kanata.

JamboAl
04-17-2009, 09:32 AM
^ OK, maybe I went overboard on this one. The team will "survive" into Year 4, maybe even longer than the Ottawa Lynx (AAA baseball) did because it'll be Melnyk's stadium. But I also think the odd 5,000-6,000 attendances wouldn't be unusual especially once the novely wore off.

I hope I'm wrong but I'd rather watch football downtown in a real urban setting.

rocker
04-17-2009, 09:41 AM
hey, if it did fail, then they are left with a nice stadium for the USL. :)

i'd rather see them try to make it work than never try at all.

right now we're all making predictions.. some say Ottawa would get bad attendances, I say they'd get decent attendances. But it's all predictions. I'd like to see the team exist in reality, so we can see if it succeeds or fails. Then we know for sure whether Ottawa is a good market or not. Worth a shot, no?

Shway
04-17-2009, 10:11 AM
remember no one thought toronto was going to be this successfull,
its time we band as a nation lol

JamboAl
04-17-2009, 10:27 AM
I'm all for trying it in Ottawa.

The concern is the location of the stadium that is being proposed. BMO Field is downtown, Saputo Stadium may be in the east end of Mtl but easy access to the Metro, BC Place is also downtown. So why in the hell would we build a stadium that is 25 KM away from downtown, has no good public transit to it, and frankly is in the middle of nowhere and likely won't allow tailgates (remember this is Kanata, home of the no clothes lines in the backyard and uniformed colour houses).

Super Cereal
04-17-2009, 03:04 PM
never gonna happen, even worse idea to share a stadium with a cfl team.
if they want one try for the usl id put money down that wouldnt be successful either

Ossi hating on Ottawa, what else is new.

Redcoe15
04-18-2009, 08:03 AM
Get out the forks. Looks as if Melnyk's MLS plans are done:

Melnyk punts plan for dual-sport stadium

Mayor now putting full support behind developers' proposal to rebuild Frank Clair

The idea of a dual-purpose football and soccer stadium in Kanata is dead. Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk won't agree to a deal that would have offered two professional sports teams at Melnyk's proposed stadium, Mayor Larry O'Brien said Friday.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/Melnyk+punts+plan+dual+sport+stadium/1508773/story.html

Kooper
04-18-2009, 08:12 AM
Get out the forks. Looks as if Melnyk's MLS plans are done:

Melnyk punts plan for dual-sport stadium

Mayor now putting full support behind developers' proposal to rebuild Frank Clair

The idea of a dual-purpose football and soccer stadium in Kanata is dead. Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk won't agree to a deal that would have offered two professional sports teams at Melnyk's proposed stadium, Mayor Larry O'Brien said Friday.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/Melnyk+punts+plan+dual+sport+stadium/1508773/story.html

That is bad news. Melnyk should ask for a 99 year lease at Lansdowne.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-18-2009, 09:05 AM
Ossi hating on Ottawa, what else is new.


still waiting for a reason to love em, being canadian isnt enough

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-18-2009, 09:30 AM
i gotta ask you though, what does "survive" mean?

cuz I've seen teams in MLS "survive" with 9000-11000 fans a game. Ottawa can't get 9000-11000 or more than that?

MLS is designed so well financially that teams don't have to be like TFC and Seattle to survive.

I don't think Ottawa would be as successful as TFC.. but could they get 13,000-14,000.. I'm sure they could, and that's more than enough to survive beyond 4 years.


Ottawa could just be as sucessful as TFC, Kanata or not...Melnyk should
take the cfl franchise,,then run it into the ground then have the brand new stadium for soccer only...

Redcoe15
04-18-2009, 11:56 AM
Ottawa could just be as sucessful as TFC, Kanata or not...Melnyk should
take the cfl franchise,,then run it into the ground then have the brand new stadium for soccer only...
Exactly what the CFL wants in an owner! :rolleyes: :out:

Mark in Ottawa
04-18-2009, 06:41 PM
I'm totally with Mark and Lucky Strike on this one. If MLS in Kanata survives past Year #4, I'd walk to the stadium from downtown wearing a sign saying "I was wrong".

O man... I am not gonna touch that one :D
I was the guy projecting the Senators were gonna be goners within 5 years and... well they almost were!

If it wasn't for Rod Bryden and some fancy accounting they would have been history.

I just don't know :noidea: somehow I cannot see too many people wanting to drive to Kanata for soccer. But then again people drive all the way out there in the dead of winter on an under developed road system with no rapid transit. So who knows? If anyone can make it work in Kanata it will be Melnyk and his company.

Mark in Ottawa
04-18-2009, 06:43 PM
That is bad news. Melnyk should ask for a 99 year lease at Lansdowne.
Melnyk has NO interest in Landsdowne!
His entire plan is to leverage the land and facilities he already owns in Kanata.

Mark in Ottawa
04-18-2009, 06:45 PM
Ottawa could just be as sucessful as TFC, Kanata or not...Melnyk should
take the cfl franchise,,then run it into the ground then have the brand new stadium for soccer only...
The CFL franchise rights do not belong to Melnyk.
They belong to the Landsdowne Live consortium and are non transferable.

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-18-2009, 06:55 PM
Exactly what the CFL wants in an owner! :rolleyes: :out:

why not they have let it happen before!! CFL constant failure League:D

Redcoe15
04-18-2009, 06:59 PM
why not they have let it happen before!! CFL constant failure League:D
:hand: Not in the last few years they haven't!

Redcoe15
04-18-2009, 07:02 PM
O man... I am not gonna touch that one :D
I was the guy projecting the Senators were gonna be goners within 5 years and... well they almost were!

If it wasn't for Rod Bryden and some fancy accounting they would have been history.

I just don't know :noidea: somehow I cannot see too many people wanting to drive to Kanata for soccer. But then again people drive all the way out there in the dead of winter on an under developed road system with no rapid transit. So who knows? If anyone can make it work in Kanata it will be Melnyk and his company.
I'm gonna take a wild stab and say the reason they drive out to Kanata in the dead of winter is because it's NHL hockey.

drewski
04-20-2009, 07:58 AM
O man... I am not gonna touch that one :D
I was the guy projecting the Senators were gonna be goners within 5 years and... well they almost were!

If it wasn't for Rod Bryden and some fancy accounting they would have been history.

I just don't know :noidea: somehow I cannot see too many people wanting to drive to Kanata for soccer. But then again people drive all the way out there in the dead of winter on an under developed road system with no rapid transit. So who knows? If anyone can make it work in Kanata it will be Melnyk and his company.


but are there specific routes out to Kanata for sens games an other events with over 6k attendance and isn't there talk of running more constant/direct service out that way in time for the start of the 2012 season? :noidea:

Mark in Ottawa
04-20-2009, 08:48 AM
but are there specific routes out to Kanata for sens games an other events with over 6k attendance and isn't there talk of running more constant/direct service out that way in time for the start of the 2012 season? :noidea:
Sorry you got me regarding "specific routes" and "more constant/direct service".

I actually won a pair of tickets to the Senators once ($150. per seat) very near the penalty boxes. I would never spend money like that for the exprience I had that evening.

Trying to see the game through not one but two or three panes of glass at times... over an hour in start/stop traffic to go approximately 15 Kilometers to the game and then the same back again while using "public transit"... outrageous concession costs... blaring rock music at every stoppage in play of which there were many because the game was being televised and that meant a whole crapload of dumbass TV timeouts...
very few options regarding where to walk to after the game for a few "brown pops" and apres game atmosphere.

I have never been back but to be honest the game started to bore me a few years ago and so I am not likely to make the extra effort to go to an NHL game at any time.

JamboAl
04-20-2009, 09:37 AM
but are there specific routes out to Kanata for sens games an other events with over 6k attendance and isn't there talk of running more constant/direct service out that way in time for the start of the 2012 season? :noidea:

That depends. For Sens games, there are "400" routes which get you from major pick up points around the city to the arena. They run from about 90 mins before the game and leave right after it. However, when I went to the CIS BBall Championships (a highly underrated event I must say), there were no buses so wound up driving.

I don't know about the 2nd part of your question.

On another note, they said that Pizza Hut Park was 50 KM from Dallas. I've gotta see how the drive is the next time I'm there. Doesn't make a Kanata proposal that bad; doesn't mean I've changed my mind about a stadium out there though.:icon_bs:

JamboAl
04-20-2009, 09:39 AM
I have never been back but to be honest the game started to bore me a few years ago and so I am not likely to make the extra effort to go to an NHL game at any time.

Wow, it's not just me then.

Mark: when are you going back to the Georgetown? Must arrange a viewing party soon.

Mark in Ottawa
04-20-2009, 11:52 AM
Wow, it's not just me then.

Mark: when are you going back to the Georgetown? Must arrange a viewing party soon.

Nope... not just you.
Senators STH renewals are down from what I hear as well!

Getting started again on my duties with my summer seasonal job as a tour guide here in Ottawa. Booking off my one weekend a month so I can get down to BMO.

Unfortunately the Georgetown was sorta low on the list the way things went last year. I'm hoping for a few trips there this season but so far life has just kept conspiring against it :rolleyes:

I wonder how the city hall meeting related to the stadium proposals is going today?
I had heard that 40+ speakers were pre-registered to give their 5 minutes of comment and many more were expected at the sessions today. Unfortunately I just can't fit into my schedule.

Cashcleaner
04-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Get out the forks. Looks as if Melnyk's MLS plans are done:

Melnyk punts plan for dual-sport stadium

Mayor now putting full support behind developers' proposal to rebuild Frank Clair

The idea of a dual-purpose football and soccer stadium in Kanata is dead. Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk won't agree to a deal that would have offered two professional sports teams at Melnyk's proposed stadium, Mayor Larry O'Brien said Friday.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/Melnyk+punts+plan+dual+sport+stadium/1508773/story.html

Did this article ever make it to the Daily News Thread? If not, it should have because this is a pretty major development.

In all seriousness though, c'mon. We all kinda knew it wasn't going to happen. The Ottawa MLS franchise dream is on it's deathbed now. Not only did the proposal for the Kanata stadium fall through, but Melnyk is getting a lot of opposition for the Lansdowne plan as well from local city councillors.

Redcoe15
04-20-2009, 12:51 PM
And now, according to this report, (http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2009/04/20/ottawa_hunt/) it looks like a decision has been made. And it's for Jeff Hunt's CFL group in Lansdowne.