Bad news about Perlaza..

[joshpa]

so I just came back from dropping off my pops and my cousin off at the good ol YYZ who are on their way to Ecuador, when who comes out of a taxi behind me but our CB hopeful Perlaza. I took me a quick second, but because of his hair, I knew it was him. I called out his name and he came and spoke to me, almost surprised any spanish ppl lived here. I told him that I heard he was training with the team in which he responded:

"ya, but it was only for a couple of days."

I then replied with an "oh, so nothing happened" and he shook his head...

I got my old man to talk to him a bit before the flight, so ill let you know if anything else interesting rises up in convo, but thats it.. sorry to be the bearer of bad news..

[joshpa]

nevermind.. i am clearly way out of the loop.. i thought i was being breaking news material.. my bad..

mods move if you wish...

[joshpa]

UPDATE:

just got off the phone with my old man.. he is currently perlaza's translator for the time being. :D

anyway, it was contract issues.. that's all that could be said without getting into too much detail. but he's on his way back to Ecuador.

[wzhxvy]

contract issues like what ???

[olegunnar]

contract issues like what ???

Like Houston didn't want to sign him to a contract or we couldn't sign him to a contract because Houston didn't want to trade his rights.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

or he wnated too much money
either way its brutal and i cant say im surprised
fucking mls

[olegunnar]

or he wnated too much money
either way its brutal and i cant say im surprised
fucking mls

Can't imgaine he'd fly all the way from Ecuador to trial here, if they weren't at least close on money.

[The_Brace]

(INSERT DEEP SIGH HERE)

Le Eff.

Following the "almost" or "could be" lists of players for the reds is giving me a serious case of blue balls.

[FluSH]

nevermind.. i am clearly way out of the loop.. i thought i was being breaking news material.. my bad..

mods move if you wish...


still good news that you talked to him... and that you got some info on why it didn't work out.

[Krasno.pL.]

todays the "transfer deadline" right?
seems like nobodys doing anything out there...

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Money....Contract Issues always boil down to money!!

[Chewy Unikronik]

This trialing, to hoping and then no signings thing is getting tiring...

[Red CB Toronto]

Why does allow the MLS to have these weird rules that no other league in the world has like its own internal transfer deadline and this discovery claim system which seems to hold up players coming to the league, it seems to be an only in the MLS type of thing.

[Steve]

Why does allow the MLS to have these weird rules that no other league in the world has like its own internal transfer deadline and this discovery claim system which seems to hold up players coming to the league, it seems to be an only in the MLS type of thing.

Transfer deadlines exist in other leagues as well, we just play on a different schedule.

As for discovery claims, that is entirely due to single entity and cost control (which is actually quite a good idea).

Think of it this way, without the discovery system, player A wants to come to MLS. Teams B and C both want him. How do we settle this? Well, in any normal free market situation teams B and C both put offers on the table. Player A accepts the offer he likes the most. Done deal, everyone is happy.

So, what's the problem with this? The problem is, Teams B and C are actually owned by the same entity. So, when team B says "I'll give you 200k" and team C says "I'll give you 300k" they'll actually bidding against themselves. Player A might have been quite happy to play for 200k, but since both teams want him, he gets 300k, and the single entity of the league (remember, the league owns contracts and pays players) is out 100k WITHOUT gaining quality (since it could have achieved the same quality for 200k). That is just bad business.

So, why not just have the league negotiate a price with the player, then have the player decide which team to go to? That would destroy small market teams. If given a choice of SLC or NY, which would you choose? KC or LA? Obviously the big market teams will get all the prime players, which is something the league is trying to avoid.

So, essentially, it's quite a savy system they've come up with. My only problem with it is the name. "Discovery claim" makes it seem like the team actually discovered that player (who might be a world known name). In fact, it's closer to calling "dibbs" on a player.

[T_Mizz]

I must say I'm proud of us, no one seems to be taking this too hard. Normally when a player doesn't play with us we lose our minds but I guess after 3 years of this we're becoming desensitized

[rocker]

I must say I'm proud of us, no one seems to be taking this too hard. Normally when a player doesn't play with us we lose our minds but I guess after 3 years of this we're becoming desensitized

i am not taking it hard cuz I knew jack squat about the guy. we always hear of guys being hyped up and then they disappoint, whether at TFC or elsewhere. so i can't really get worked up about losing a guy who I knew nothing about.

[Roogsy]

Transfer deadlines exist in other leagues as well, we just play on a different schedule.

As for discovery claims, that is entirely due to single entity and cost control (which is actually quite a good idea).

Think of it this way, without the discovery system, player A wants to come to MLS. Teams B and C both want him. How do we settle this? Well, in any normal free market situation teams B and C both put offers on the table. Player A accepts the offer he likes the most. Done deal, everyone is happy.

So, what's the problem with this? The problem is, Teams B and C are actually owned by the same entity. So, when team B says "I'll give you 200k" and team C says "I'll give you 300k" they'll actually bidding against themselves. Player A might have been quite happy to play for 200k, but since both teams want him, he gets 300k, and the single entity of the league (remember, the league owns contracts and pays players) is out 100k WITHOUT gaining quality (since it could have achieved the same quality for 200k). That is just bad business.

So, why not just have the league negotiate a price with the player, then have the player decide which team to go to? That would destroy small market teams. If given a choice of SLC or NY, which would you choose? KC or LA? Obviously the big market teams will get all the prime players, which is something the league is trying to avoid.

So, essentially, it's quite a savy system they've come up with. My only problem with it is the name. "Discovery claim" makes it seem like the team actually discovered that player (who might be a world known name). In fact, it's closer to calling "dibbs" on a player.


Holy crap...this is a really good explanation. :thumbsup:

[T_Mizz]

Transfer deadlines exist in other leagues as well, we just play on a different schedule.

As for discovery claims, that is entirely due to single entity and cost control (which is actually quite a good idea).

Think of it this way, without the discovery system, player A wants to come to MLS. Teams B and C both want him. How do we settle this? Well, in any normal free market situation teams B and C both put offers on the table. Player A accepts the offer he likes the most. Done deal, everyone is happy.

So, what's the problem with this? The problem is, Teams B and C are actually owned by the same entity. So, when team B says "I'll give you 200k" and team C says "I'll give you 300k" they'll actually bidding against themselves. Player A might have been quite happy to play for 200k, but since both teams want him, he gets 300k, and the single entity of the league (remember, the league owns contracts and pays players) is out 100k WITHOUT gaining quality (since it could have achieved the same quality for 200k). That is just bad business.

So, why not just have the league negotiate a price with the player, then have the player decide which team to go to? That would destroy small market teams. If given a choice of SLC or NY, which would you choose? KC or LA? Obviously the big market teams will get all the prime players, which is something the league is trying to avoid.

So, essentially, it's quite a savy system they've come up with. My only problem with it is the name. "Discovery claim" makes it seem like the team actually discovered that player (who might be a world known name). In fact, it's closer to calling "dibbs" on a player.
It is a good idea from a business standpoint but its not very good from a TFC standpoint unfortunately:(

[Steve]

It is a good idea from a business standpoint but its not very good from a TFC standpoint unfortunately:(

Actually for TFC it's essentially a wash. For every player we need to give something up for (or are blocked from getting) we also have a player we have a claim on that nets us something (picks, allocation, etc) from nothing. Think about McBride (the allocation system is part of the same overall structure), we got a player, a first round pick, and allocation for a player we hadn't signed, and who would never play for us.

At the end of the day we come out pretty much where we would without the system, we just get there in a strange way.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

another reason....MLS have to raise the CAP!........if it want a better product on the pitch its gona have to wake the F up!

[T_Mizz]

Actually for TFC it's essentially a wash. For every player we need to give something up for (or are blocked from getting) we also have a player we have a claim on that nets us something (picks, allocation, etc) from nothing. Think about McBride (the allocation system is part of the same overall structure), we got a player, a first round pick, and allocation for a player we hadn't signed, and who would never play for us.

At the end of the day we come out pretty much where we would without the system, we just get there in a strange way.
Oh i didn't mean overall bad for TFC I'm just a tad upset we didn't get our CB, I don't think its unfair for any one team by any means, just venting I suppose:D

[FluSH]

Holy crap...this is a really good explanation. :thumbsup:

I have to second that... best explinantion I've read on the discovery system...

[Nuvinho]

Instead of calling it "discovery claim"........how about "I got dibbs on"

[ginkster88]

Steve. Wow. I can't even begin to explain what a good explanation that was.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Hey Steve... thanks for that.
The inner workings of MLS are always a mystery to me.

[T_Mizz]

Steve while you're at making amazing explanations, do you think you could take a shot at the academy signing system?

[James17930]

But they gotta ditch it as soon as each team has a separate owner.

[Pachuco]

But they gotta ditch it as soon as each team has a separate owner.

But no team in the league right now has a separate owner.

[Steve]

Steve while you're at making amazing explanations, do you think you could take a shot at the academy signing system?

Haha, I can take a shot at it (though I'm not sure how much I agree with what they're doing, I at least understand it).

Ok, so here are the relevant pieces of information as far as I understand it:

Teams maintain what's called a "home grown list". This list comprises of the people who came up through your academy (though I don't think that's necessary) who have lived in your "home area" for a period of at least a year with their parents.

Teams cannot add players to a home grown list that are already playing on the US U17, U20, or U23 sides, but if their home grown player gets a call-up, he isn't removed from the list.

Teams cannot add players to their home grown list after they have gone to college, but they CAN add them to their list BEFORE they leave for college, and they stay on the list throughout their college carreers.

With me so far? So, I believe the question is "why the hell can we only sign 2 players a year from our academy?". The answer boils down to, once again, parity. Most soccer fans aren't used to haivng measures like this to ensure parity, but MLS has taken parity to heart in every way.

So, why would being able to sign more academy players ruin parity? For a few reasons. First of all, right now MLS views the draft as a major institution of parity. If you look at rosters, you will usually find many of the role players (on the cheaper side) and some of the stars are from the draft system. By giving the last place team a higher draft pick, they're trying to re-establish the parity they so love. If you could sign as many people from your academy as possible, teams could essentially circumvent the entire drafting process. They could even send their players to college, then just have them avoid the draft. If you build a big enough, and successful enough, academy, your team would be ensured some of the best top players of every year.

Now, again, you might think this is a good thing. Encourage all teams to build a great academy system! Not so fast. With the "live with their parents" rule, you're limiting which players available to you. How many potential players live with a certain radius of New York City? How about Kansas city? Again, the big market teams, by virture of being big, would have a huge edge.

The purpose of the academy system is to give teams willing to spend money an edge, but not unbalance the league. It my seem stupid now (with so few teams even signing their academy players) but the league as a whole created the system in a way to ensure they wouldn't need to change it later to maintain parity. Imagine a future where RBNY spends millions on its academy, has a high throughput of youth players, and signs all the future all-stars and USMNT players to their team without any other team getting a sniff at one. Maybe they go on to dominate the league (I'm not saying it's likely, just possible). In this situation, what is MLS going to do? Change the rules then to limit the number of players NYRB can sign? Do you know the kind of shitstorm that would happen if NYRB spent millions on building up an academy understanding the rules as one thing, and then having MLS castrate that investment?

Again, though I don't really like the system, it seems to be very MLS like. Build it slowly, build it steadily. Monitor the situation to make sure nothing happens you didn't forsee, and THEN make an informed choice (it's much easily to increase the number of signings than decrease it).

[T_Mizz]

God damn! Steve how in the hell do you know so much about these stupid rules?

[LucaGol]

Transfer deadlines exist in other leagues as well, we just play on a different schedule.

As for discovery claims, that is entirely due to single entity and cost control (which is actually quite a good idea).

Think of it this way, without the discovery system, player A wants to come to MLS. Teams B and C both want him. How do we settle this? Well, in any normal free market situation teams B and C both put offers on the table. Player A accepts the offer he likes the most. Done deal, everyone is happy.

So, what's the problem with this? The problem is, Teams B and C are actually owned by the same entity. So, when team B says "I'll give you 200k" and team C says "I'll give you 300k" they'll actually bidding against themselves. Player A might have been quite happy to play for 200k, but since both teams want him, he gets 300k, and the single entity of the league (remember, the league owns contracts and pays players) is out 100k WITHOUT gaining quality (since it could have achieved the same quality for 200k). That is just bad business.

So, why not just have the league negotiate a price with the player, then have the player decide which team to go to? That would destroy small market teams. If given a choice of SLC or NY, which would you choose? KC or LA? Obviously the big market teams will get all the prime players, which is something the league is trying to avoid.

So, essentially, it's quite a savy system they've come up with. My only problem with it is the name. "Discovery claim" makes it seem like the team actually discovered that player (who might be a world known name). In fact, it's closer to calling "dibbs" on a player.

This scheme has probably saved the league less than 500K considering there have only been a handful of "Brian McBride" cases.

Conversely, how many quality players have not been able to gain access to the league because of this constraint.

Secondly, you cannot bid for a player's services considering that MLS does not pay transfer fees. You can only bid for them in the sense that you can offer them hire wages. Which as I mentioned, amounts to relatively small differences between what teams may be willing to pay.

This mouse trap that the MLS has created with regards to how player affairs are handled is too protectionist and more prohibitive of real growth as a league. The story of the NASL has swung the pendulum too far in the other direction ... unfortunately, but not unexpectedly. They'll learn eventually ... but when is the question.

[Shway]

This thread needs to be closed, considering this isn't about Perlaza, and if it was Perlaza aint comming....

and we move on

[Hitcho]

^ not really, it's about why perlaza isn't coming, and much of what is now being discussed could well apply to any other potential signings for TFC or the league.

in terms of the "new CB" though, yep, we move on. again. and again. and again...