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mastermixer
04-14-2009, 03:09 PM
Is it me or does the BMO pitch look worn out this year. I guess it took a beating over the winter. Especially on saturday, it just looked dull and I actually saw tire marks at the south end corner!

Parkdale
04-14-2009, 03:11 PM
it's shit.

it looked nice once, but it's absolutely shit now.
I stood on the pitch before TFC played their first game,
and it felt pretty nice back then. I stood on it again after
the first season, and the difference was easy to feel.


I know it's expensive, and would be time consuming, but it should be replaced annually
with whatever the latest greatest version of FieldTurf is at the moment.

renda-10
04-14-2009, 03:12 PM
I think if they just took some time to groom the turf it could be better than it is now

Carts
04-14-2009, 03:13 PM
It looked like they've dumped way too much of that rubber shit on it...

You could see the actual tracks where the machine groomed/combed the field turf, and in front of goal you could see piles of rubber...

Carts...

Miko
04-14-2009, 03:14 PM
Anselmi said on The Fan last week that it was starting to wear out. Apparently, it was used, on average 20 hrs a day during the winter.

Whether or not it's replaced or converted to grass will depend on the City (of course) and if they go forward with a practice facility

Nuvinho
04-14-2009, 03:16 PM
It is really bad, I played on it in the winter and will this spring. It is so flat, with all the wear and tear.

mastermixer
04-14-2009, 03:16 PM
Anselmi said on The Fan last week that it was starting to wear out. Apparently, it was used, on average 20 hrs a day during the winter.

Whether or not it's replaced or converted to grass will depend on the City (of course) and if they go forward with a practice facility

you think that would be a priority with a "professional" organization :noidea:

Parkdale
04-14-2009, 03:17 PM
remember in the first year when fine clouds of black dust would come up durring a slide tackle?

haven't seen that for ages.

Toronto Ruffrider
04-14-2009, 03:21 PM
It's interesting how field turf companies claim that their product has a shelf life of upwards of 10 years. Just like grass, though, field turf will wear out quickly because of overuse. The plastic blades of faux grass are not indestructible.

Phil
04-14-2009, 03:22 PM
I think if they just took some time to groom the turf it could be better than it is now

They spent some time during the week leading up to the home opener working on it.

This daily grind of everyone using it though is killing it. I thought I heard somewhere that there was supposed to be a 7 year lifespan on the stuff. It seems with the amount of usage that they are throwing at it, that timeline gets drastically reduced.

Toronto Ruffrider
04-14-2009, 03:24 PM
They spent some time during the week leading up to the home opener working on it.


If I remember correctly, Paul stated that the turf gets fluffed up on an annual basis in order for BMO to retain its FIFA 2-star pitch rating.

wzhxvy
04-14-2009, 03:45 PM
Yeah they have been fluffing all right. Anselmi is the chief fluffer.

The state of the pitch is shameful...and they wonder why some players refuse to play here or why they cant get anyone half decent to play us in their overpriced exhibition game.

Lets just hope that none of our guys gets injured because of that crap.

rocker
04-14-2009, 04:04 PM
they wonder why some players refuse to play here

They don't "wonder" .. Anselmi said on the radio with Bob McCown that he's aware of players refusing to come due to the field turf and they are looking at grass.

i'm sure if TFC actually owned the stadium they'd put in grass a.s.a.p., since I've heard the community use doesn't make money, and they understand the player issues.

eustacchio
04-14-2009, 04:12 PM
I think the turf at the docks is in better condition

dantdot
04-14-2009, 04:17 PM
The turfs an embarrassment, the sooner they get rid of it, the better.

ExiledRed
04-14-2009, 04:18 PM
They don't "wonder" .. Anselmi said on the radio with Bob McCown that he's aware of players refusing to come due to the field turf and they are looking at grass.


They should have anticipated this before day one. It's my suspicion that they did, but they underestimated the level of players we would be trying to get.

The Field Turf should never have been an option. The problems it has caused are hardly unexpected, we KNEW that it was substandard and players would be more than reticent about playing on it, and lo and behold that is what has happened.

I don't care about the city deal, it could have been avoided by plopping down a larger investment in the stadium I'm sure.

The use of fieldturf is a persistent embarassment to this team and the league, and we cannot present ourselves as top flight while it goes on.

Before the 'look how well Seattle is doing with FT' crowd arrives, I'll point out that their FT is superior but will probably look like shit at the beginning of next season too.

wzhxvy
04-14-2009, 04:24 PM
They don't "wonder" .. Anselmi said on the radio with Bob McCown that he's aware of players refusing to come due to the field turf and they are looking at grass.

i'm sure if TFC actually owned the stadium they'd put in grass a.s.a.p., since I've heard the community use doesn't make money, and they understand the player issues.


In order for TFC to own the stadium, MLSE would actually have to pay for it. Obvious statement, but foreign concept to MLSE. They, however, expect public funds to finance their private operations and then bitch when they dont get what they want, blaming everything but their greed and poor planning.

The field is embarassing and reflects horribly on the club...the city is getting its money's worth.

C.Ronaldo
04-14-2009, 04:24 PM
^ yah, but the seahawks will gladly change every year to keep it nice and pretty for the NFL

Cadaren
04-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Seattle is not using FT, they use grass

grimm
04-14-2009, 04:25 PM
Why not dome Lamport instead? I don't know the inner workings of course... Wasn't most of the Edu money to be used for it?

stretchthetruth
04-14-2009, 04:26 PM
I think the turf at the docks is in better condition

i always wondered whether the players who refused to play on fieldturf were just whiners or not... i played outdoor on grass in the summer, and indoor at the docks this winter... that stuff is really hard on the back and legs, not to mention the nice twist i managed to inflict on my ankle... 4 weeks later, i'm still swollen and sore with a sprain/jam, and when i told my doctor it was on field turf, he was like, "ah, no wonder"...

dantdot
04-14-2009, 04:26 PM
Seattle is not using FT, they use grass

They definitely use FT, it's much better than ours, even first year.

rocker
04-14-2009, 04:27 PM
They should have anticipated this before day one. It's my suspicion that they did, but they underestimated the level of players we would be trying to get.

The Field Turf should never have been an option. The problems it has caused are hardly unexpected, we KNEW that it was substandard and players would be more than reticent about playing on it, and lo and behold that is what has happened.

I don't care about the city deal, it could have been avoided by plopping down a larger investment in the stadium I'm sure.
.

nah, they couldn't have put in grass. the community use would have torn it to shit worse than the field turf.

as long as government money was making up the majority, AND the city was providing a free gift (great land, land which MLSE could not own as it's owned by the CNE board), then it had to be community use. Some of you don't realize how tenuous the whole "MLS to Toronto" thing was back then, and how many stadium plans came and went, and that the stadium was not first and foremost initiated for TFC's use..it was part of a bigger plan. Read the deal with the city on the City of Toronto website.

anyhow, I wonder if some people realize that the stadium has been open for less than 2 years.

Patience, grass will come.

Cadaren
04-14-2009, 04:32 PM
They definitely use FT, it's much better than ours, even first year.

"This caused concern with both the Washington State Public Stadium Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_State_Public_Stadium_Authority) and soccer fans since the artificial surface does not currently meet all FIFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA) standards. In a compromise, First & Goal Inc. agreed to pay for grass to be installed when needed.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest_Field#cite_note-Business_Journal_Opening-4) In the spring of 2008 the FieldTurf surface of Qwest Field was replaced because the previous surface's sand and rubber infill had become compressed causing safety concerns"

ExiledRed
04-14-2009, 04:36 PM
nah, they couldn't have put in grass. the community use would have torn it to shit worse than the field turf.

as long as government money was making up the majority, AND the city was providing a free gift (great land, land which MLSE could not own as it's owned by the CNE board), then it had to be community use.

anyhow, I wonder if some people realize that the stadium has been open for less than 2 years. Patience, grass will come.

Like I said, the deal was shit from the start, we should have fronted the majority, and done everything possible to prevent the community use that just didn't require a 20,000 seater stadium with a bubble. It would have cost the same as a hockey player, and MLSE doesnt seem to have a problem nutting up for those.

Keeping the city out and using grass, is going to be expensive, but were going to have to do it sometime, so why not then?

At least you acknowledge the deficiency now, instead of pretending it's all good.

JonO
04-14-2009, 04:41 PM
"This caused concern with both the Washington State Public Stadium Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_State_Public_Stadium_Authority) and soccer fans since the artificial surface does not currently meet all FIFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA) standards. In a compromise, First & Goal Inc. agreed to pay for grass to be installed when needed.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest_Field#cite_note-Business_Journal_Opening-4) In the spring of 2008 the FieldTurf surface of Qwest Field was replaced because the previous surface's sand and rubber infill had become compressed causing safety concerns"
You shoud check the sources when quoting from wikipedia... according to the sourced article:

Qwest Field is getting a new artificial playing surface this year, just in time for the Dalai Lama's scheduled April rally at the 67,000-seat home venue for the Seattle Seahawks.

Also, the article that is quoted about the grass is from 2002...

JonO
04-14-2009, 04:45 PM
At least you acknowledge the deficiency now, instead of pretending it's all good.
I'll admit that initially I didn't think it would be a problem... at least until I saw the first game... and certainly not as big a problem as it has become. Also, is it me or does the turf appear to be significantly worse this year than last even

nfitz
04-14-2009, 05:04 PM
Why not dome Lamport instead?Yeah, that's what I don't get. The main roadblock to grass at BMO seems to be the community use. But I don't understand why that all couldn't be ported to Lamport, with just a few $ spent. It's just as conveniently located - perhaps more so being right on the King streetcar line, and closer to the Dufferin bus.

jabbronies
04-14-2009, 05:14 PM
According to Wikipedia, lamport is owned by the city of Toronto

Rocco
04-14-2009, 05:14 PM
i always wondered whether the players who refused to play on fieldturf were just whiners or not... i played outdoor on grass in the summer, and indoor at the docks this winter... that stuff is really hard on the back and legs, not to mention the nice twist i managed to inflict on my ankle... 4 weeks later, i'm still swollen and sore with a sprain/jam, and when i told my doctor it was on field turf, he was like, "ah, no wonder"...

10 weeks here.... ankle sprain due to field turn at the DISC in Durham. Took me 4 weeks just to walk again, another 6 in rehab. FT is a curse to soccer. I don't blame any player who refuses to play on it.

I think the 10 years rated by the manufacturer is based on competitive play once or twice a week, not 10-15 hours a day 365 days a year. I think the manufacturer rates it this way so they can sell it but in reality, they measure fatigue (wear and tear due to cyclic stress, ie ppl running on the turf) by hours. It's shameful what this city is doing to its professional teams. Our fine counselors have NO clue. I think we should take firm action and lobby for what we need in OUR city. You can't play ice hockey without ice and you can't play professional soccer without well maintained grass.

Toronto Ruffrider
04-14-2009, 05:15 PM
Yeah, that's what I don't get. The main roadblock to grass at BMO seems to be the community use. But I don't understand why that all couldn't be ported to Lamport, with just a few $ spent. It's just as conveniently located - perhaps more so being right on the King streetcar line, and closer to the Dufferin bus.

Simply swapping one stadium for another will not work, because the city owns both venues. Under such a scenario, the result would be one less stadium that could be used by the public.

The construction of a practice facility is just what we need to rid BMO of its public component. A practice facility could handle all of BMO's current community requirements, freeing up our 20,000-seater for natural grass and more professional uses.

Sonny Cheeba
04-14-2009, 05:16 PM
i told my doctor it was on field turf, he was like, "ah, no wonder"...

hahah my doctor would look at me like "What the fuck are you talking about?" and prescribe some anti-biotics for no reason.

nfitz
04-14-2009, 05:17 PM
According to Wikipedia, lamport is owned by the city of Torontouh ... yeah, like BMO Field. I thought everyone knew that.

nfitz
04-14-2009, 05:19 PM
Simply swapping one stadium for another will not work, because the city owns both venues. Under such a scenario, the result would be one less stadium that could be used by the public.I thought that BMO Field's community use was when the dome was there. There is no dome at Lamport in the winter (unless I'm completely ignorant), so why would yet another venue be needed? I'd think that a lot of the summertime events at BMO Field would continue there even with grass ... or am I underestimating the current BMO Field usage when the dome is off?

Toronto Ruffrider
04-14-2009, 05:33 PM
I thought that BMO Field's community use was when the dome was there. There is no dome at Lamport in the winter (unless I'm completely ignorant), so why would yet another venue be needed? I'd think that a lot of the summertime events at BMO Field would continue there even with grass ... or am I underestimating the current BMO Field usage when the dome is off?

I assume that BMO is quite heavily used even when the dome is off. I could have sworn reading that BMO is booked solid in the warm weather months as well.

Used heavily or not, I can't see the city being okay with the winter bubble being transferred from BMO to Lamport. I haven't seen the amenities at Lamport, but I can't imagine that they'd be as good as the ones at BMO. Unless a change in winter venues is neutral or better for the city, what incentive does the city have to give up on a stadium that it already owns?

Petor
04-14-2009, 05:33 PM
Don't know if anyone read this story.
Notice the mention of a TFC practice facility.
This is close to Kipling and Lakeshore near their new practice rink complex being built now.
If they do get the deal and build it can grass be far away for BMO?
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/614152

ExiledRed
04-14-2009, 06:03 PM
I assume that BMO is quite heavily used even when the dome is off. I could have sworn reading that BMO is booked solid in the warm weather months as well.

Used heavily or not, I can't see the city being okay with the winter bubble being transferred from BMO to Lamport. I haven't seen the amenities at Lamport, but I can't imagine that they'd be as good as the ones at BMO. Unless a change in winter venues is neutral or better for the city, what incentive does the city have to give up on a stadium that it already owns?


A reduction in operational costs.

How much does that bubble cost in the winter? Wouldn't it be cheaper to port the community use to a more practical indoor facility?

Does the ultimate frisbee team, really need to play in a 20,000 seater, $60 million dollar stadium? Do the pub leagues?

It's like renting out the house of commons to a high school debating team, and then removing the seats and putting in plastic chairs to accomodate them.

mastermixer
04-14-2009, 06:10 PM
if the schedule starts in March when there still could be snow on the ground, is that enough time for real grass to grow? Maybe I should ask this question in the HGTV forum :)

Toronto Ruffrider
04-14-2009, 06:25 PM
A reduction in operational costs.

How much does that bubble cost in the winter? Wouldn't it be cheaper to port the community use to a more practical indoor facility?

Does the ultimate frisbee team, really need to play in a 20,000 seater, $60 million dollar stadium? Do the pub leagues?

It's like renting out the house of commons to a high school debating team, and then removing the seats and putting in plastic chairs to accomodate them.

I was thinking more along the lines of the changing rooms and similar amenities at BMO. It goes without saying that pub teams don't need to play in anything close to a 20,000-seater.

nfitz
04-14-2009, 06:28 PM
if the schedule starts in March when there still could be snow on the ground, is that enough time for real grass to grow? Maybe I should ask this question in the HGTV forum :)Another very good question! Presumably there would be heating ... but how good would that be?

Anyone in the know? I was quite surprised at how green the grass was under my snow this year as it melted - though with the very cold nights, it then would freeze and turn brown. But the insulation was enough to keep it warm. Would some kind of winter structure that covered the grass - perhaps even with UV lights combined with underfloor heating let you quickly get a usable pitch in the spring?

I plead ignorance ... but surely Norway is where we should be looking for answers. (Montreal just doesn't start as early as we'll want to ).

napoli73
04-14-2009, 07:10 PM
They would have to cover the turf with some traps which would protect it and also help it get a head start in the spring.

ExiledRed
04-14-2009, 07:21 PM
Another very good question! Presumably there would be heating ... but how good would that be?

Anyone in the know? I was quite surprised at how green the grass was under my snow this year as it melted - though with the very cold nights, it then would freeze and turn brown. But the insulation was enough to keep it warm. Would some kind of winter structure that covered the grass - perhaps even with UV lights combined with underfloor heating let you quickly get a usable pitch in the spring?

I plead ignorance ... but surely Norway is where we should be looking for answers. (Montreal just doesn't start as early as we'll want to ).

I've been trying to find specs on the heated grass they use at Anfield.

It's expensive but it's definitely a solution for frost.

nfitz
04-14-2009, 08:52 PM
It's expensive but it's definitely a solution for frost.I'm not sure England is comparable. It's much, much warmer there in the winter. Typically grass stays green all winter long - it's unusual ever to have enough frost to actually freeze the ground so that the grass turns brown. You have to remember, that in England it's not uncommon for the plumbing to be stuck to the outside wall of a building!

You need Oslo, not Liverpool!

tfcmanu
04-14-2009, 09:36 PM
Grass @ BMO in 2/3 years BMO is being used for community use, however what I heard is that there is a minor soccer association and city of Toronto going to buy Brockton Stadium (Brock av and Bloor av) presently owned by the Alliance of Portugese Clubs there having financial problems and will be bought for 1 Million, purchased by the minor soccer association & City of Toronto there will be field turf and a bubble added for winter use and giving BMO the go ahead to install grass. Alot of fans are suggesting TFC put the dome over Lamport stadium, However the dome would not fit in Lamport stadium it would fall into the stands and not over the stands and to big for playing field. :noidea:

Brockton Stadium - http://www.fussballtempel.net/concacaf/CAN.html (http://www.fussballtempel.net/concacaf/CAN.html)

Brockton Stadium - http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.656757...7,0.007296&t=k (http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.656757,-79.437289&spn=0.003307,0.007296&t=k)

Allaiance of Portuguese clubs - http://www.portuguesealliance.com/ (http://www.portuguesealliance.com/)

tfcmanu
04-14-2009, 09:39 PM
I'm not sure England is comparable. It's much, much warmer there in the winter. Typically grass stays green all winter long - it's unusual ever to have enough frost to actually freeze the ground so that the grass turns brown. You have to remember, that in England it's not uncommon for the plumbing to be stuck to the outside wall of a building!

You need Oslo, not Liverpool!

Just look at the grass in some of these Baseball stadiums in northern USA eg Cleveland, Detroit & Chicago grass looks green on opening day.

ExiledRed
04-14-2009, 09:45 PM
I'm not sure England is comparable. It's much, much warmer there in the winter. Typically grass stays green all winter long - it's unusual ever to have enough frost to actually freeze the ground so that the grass turns brown. You have to remember, that in England it's not uncommon for the plumbing to be stuck to the outside wall of a building!

You need Oslo, not Liverpool!

There's very little you can educate me on the climate in England, but thanks for trying.

Most epl grounds use undersoil heating

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/3848/ground1.jpg

It's been used to allow north american gridiron teams to continue their games through winter, so I'm imagining that such a system would work here, given that we only need it to ensure the grass starts growing on time for the summer. I need someone qualified to enlighten me on this though.

Ensco posted the actual system they use at Anfield that involves a heated fibre sewn into every blade of grass, like an electric blanket. It's probably overkill on Liverpool's part and I'm sure would be effective for our purposes, but again I can't find the specs on the stuff. I'm hoping Ensco will see this thread and post it.

ExiledRed
04-14-2009, 09:49 PM
Also the New York Red Bulls new stadium will have heated grass. I'm pretty sure their climate isn't too different from ours.

Pigfynn
04-14-2009, 09:54 PM
Also the New York Red Bulls new stadium will have heated grass. I'm pretty sure their climate isn't too different from
ours.

If it was looked at as essential by the club...it would be so.

It's not like they're short on funds.

Toronto Ruffrider
04-14-2009, 10:09 PM
I'm not sure England is comparable. It's much, much warmer there in the winter. Typically grass stays green all winter long - it's unusual ever to have enough frost to actually freeze the ground so that the grass turns brown. You have to remember, that in England it's not uncommon for the plumbing to be stuck to the outside wall of a building!

You need Oslo, not Liverpool!

Toronto may have colder winters, but the MLS schedule doesn't run through the winter. Thus, we won't have to worry about having green grass in January or February - well, unless Sepp Blatter has his say.;) With a proper undersoil heating system, it may be possible to have green grass in T.O. from the end of March/early April until November.

Rocco
04-14-2009, 10:46 PM
hmmmm warm grass in winter....

dantdot
04-14-2009, 10:49 PM
Ensco posted the actual system they use at Anfield that involves a heated fibre sewn into every blade of grass, like an electric blanket. It's probably overkill on Liverpool's part and I'm sure would be effective for our purposes, but again I can't find the specs on the stuff. I'm hoping Ensco will see this thread and post it.

It's Desso GrassMaster. They use it at Anfield, Emirates, WHL...list goes on. Please install it at BMO and thank you :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster
http://www.dessosports.com/en/desso-grassmaster.html

JonO
04-14-2009, 11:50 PM
Also the New York Red Bulls new stadium will have heated grass. I'm pretty sure their climate isn't too different from ours.
Actually, it's quite different. There climate is more moderate than ours...

Average temps, for example:
Avg High Avg Low
Toronto
Jan -3 -11
Feb -2 -11
March 3 -6

NYC
Jan 2 -5
Feb 4 -4
March 9 0

That 5 degrees Celsius can make a big difference...

Not that I'm saying we shouldn't have the grass....

TFCREDNWHITE
04-15-2009, 12:02 AM
It's Desso GrassMaster. They use it at Anfield, Emirates, WHL...list goes on. Please install it at BMO and thank you :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster
http://www.dessosports.com/en/desso-grassmaster.html

Yup Desso GrassMaster is the shit!!

Stilts
04-15-2009, 12:20 AM
Looks almost as bad as the Blue Jays field.

ensco
04-15-2009, 05:37 AM
remember in the first year when fine clouds of black dust would come up during a slide tackle?

haven't seen that for ages.

You haven't seen it because nobody, and I mean nobody (except for Robinson, occasionally), will slide tackle at BMO. Edu stopped slide tackling halfway through the first year, it was part of why his play fell off before he was transferred.

Just another reason why fieldturf is shit. It kills me to say it, it won't stop me from going, but the games at BMO are a facsimile of soccer, not the real thing.

I'm very despondent about this issue. I believe the City is willing to figure something out here, but MLSE won't spend the money. I think Anselmi will jawbone about until the end of time. Anselmi has spoken out of both sides of his mouth on other facilities issues in the past, most famously the "unsuitability" of the ACC for hockey (that is, until MLSE bought the building).

Do the MLSE officers and board could care less about the game itself? Decide for yourself. As long as we keep coming, my fear is they'll view this nothing more than a PR problem.

Where did the Edu money go?

mastermixer
04-15-2009, 08:14 AM
There's very little you can educate me on the climate in England, but thanks for trying.

Most epl grounds use undersoil heating

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/3848/ground1.jpg

It's been used to allow north american gridiron teams to continue their games through winter, so I'm imagining that such a system would work here, given that we only need it to ensure the grass starts growing on time for the summer. I need someone qualified to enlighten me on this though.

Ensco posted the actual system they use at Anfield that involves a heated fibre sewn into every blade of grass, like an electric blanket. It's probably overkill on Liverpool's part and I'm sure would be effective for our purposes, but again I can't find the specs on the stuff. I'm hoping Ensco will see this thread and post it.

Systems like this are most likely used in billion dollar football and baseball stadiums. I don't think its worth their time to install it on a 20000 seat high school stadium like BMO.

Arnie Knows
04-15-2009, 08:39 AM
Systems like this are most likely used in billion dollar football and baseball stadiums. I don't think its worth their time to install it on a 20000 seat high school stadium like BMO.



hahahhaah True that .. Plus it cuts into Bottom line

Parkdale
04-15-2009, 08:45 AM
You haven't seen it because nobody, and I mean nobody (except for Robinson, occasionally), will slide tackle at BMO. Edu stopped slide tackling halfway through the first year, it was part of why his play fell off before he was transferred.



Where did the Edu money go?


wynne still runs people off their feet. We don't see slide tackles, but we se slide falls.

good questions about the Edu Money. My guess would be..... that's how the leafs expect to get a first round draft pick when they're slotted for 7th.

:mad:

ryencoke
04-15-2009, 09:06 AM
wynne still runs people off their feet. We don't see slide tackles, but we se slide falls.

good questions about the Edu Money. My guess would be..... that's how the leafs expect to get a first round draft pick when they're slotted for 7th.

:mad:

I'm sure the Edu money will surface sometime in the summer. The league dictates that the funds have to stay with the team not the owners.

For grass to happen at BMO they will probably need something more than just undersoil heating. Maybe a pitch that rolls in and out in sections?

It wouldnt be perfect, but it would allow the city to rent BMO out at all hours if they kept the turf and just rolled in the grass for games

Cowboy905
04-15-2009, 09:15 AM
I did a stadium tour of Fenway Park back in March and asked them about this.

They tarp the grass to keep the soil insulated from the extreme cold (Boston's climate is identical to ours). and they untarp it in March and the groundscrew comes in, and believe it or not, the grass grows pretty quickly aslong as the ground doesn't freeze.

They just need to keep it from freezing over and usually the snow acts as a protective blanket over the soil to keep it from completely freezing over and with the help from the tarp (might be a burlap type material) this ensures it from freezing over.

If a stadium that is nowhere near technologically advanced can do it, we can do it.

stugautz
04-15-2009, 10:00 AM
If they can grow grass in Green Bay at Lambeau Field, they can grow it anywhere. Come December, it's grass, but at the same time has a nice hue of brown to it.

Miko
04-15-2009, 10:16 AM
The reason the grass is always green at Emirates and Anfireld is that they use portable sunguns that can be rolled around the pitch, even at night to ensure that the pitch gets the right amount of light.

http://johandahlqvist.com/files/PhotoOfTheDay/Emirates.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3209/2620951538_cf390390c6.jpg?v=0

So it's more an issue of how much you want to spend not just - we want grass.

Arnie Knows
04-15-2009, 10:24 AM
BMO puts lights on the field too .. Then rents it out to Tom Dick and Harry beaver

Chewy Unikronik
04-15-2009, 10:31 AM
Anselmi said on The Fan last week that it was starting to wear out. Apparently, it was used, on average 20 hrs a day
20 HOURS!!!!!!!!!! Is BMO even open that many hours, on average???

Miko
04-15-2009, 10:38 AM
20 HOURS!!!!!!!!!! Is BMO even open that many hours, on average???

Maybe if they split it into 2 fields for rental purposes at times?

Krasno.pL.
04-15-2009, 10:41 AM
that turf is shiet still.

flatpicker
04-15-2009, 10:45 AM
it was sad to see the condition of the pitch in the last two games.

It looked like a cheap carpet in the home of drug addict.

Chewy Unikronik
04-15-2009, 10:45 AM
Maybe if they split it into 2 fields for rental purposes at times?
If that's what they're working with, that's some bad math.

It reminds me of that question: If you're scared half to death twice, would you still be alive? Damn straight you would! First time, you're half dead... Second go around, only a quarter... aka half of a half!

Sounds like some double dipping there to me. And yes, I am haunted at work right now :hump:

ryencoke
04-15-2009, 11:03 AM
20 HOURS!!!!!!!!!! Is BMO even open that many hours, on average???

20 might be high. I'm not sure what time they started renting in the morning, but you could rent up til midnight 7 days a week.

I don't think I saw a field not in use anytime I've rented over the winter

Steve
04-15-2009, 11:11 AM
Maybe if they split it into 2 fields for rental purposes at times?

Can't be that, since whenever I played on it, it was split into three fields (which would mean only about 7 hours a day or real usage). Combine that with the fact I was playing at midnight, and you know they're getting much more than 10 (or even 12) hours out of it.

So, if I played there at midnight, what hours would they need to be open to get 20 hours a day in use? 4:00 am to 12:00am? Maybe 4:30 to 12:30? I would assume people would definitely be in there by 6 in the morning for early practice, but it's not that much of a stretch to move that to 4:30.

And, frankly, that's the problem. When I was on it in the winter, I destroyed my knees when I fell. It might have been top of the line at the time it was installed, but that was 3 years ago. At 365 days a year and 20 hours a day, there are 7300 hours played on that field per year. In 3 years, that's 21900 hours. Though I couldn't find stats on the fieldturf site about how many hours it's rated to, that is still a ridiculously large number for a pro stadium. There is no way to mix community use and professional quality fields.

LucaGol
04-15-2009, 11:25 AM
If that's what they're working with, that's some bad math.

It reminds me of that question: If you're scared half to death twice, would you still be alive? Damn straight you would! First time, you're half dead... Second go around, only a quarter... aka half of a half!

Sounds like some double dipping there to me. And yes, I am haunted at work right now :hump:

kinda like the stadium paradox (aka dichotomy paradox) ... lol ...no pun intended.


Maybe Anselmi's trying to trip us out.

Toronto Ruffrider
04-15-2009, 11:32 AM
The reason the grass is always green at Emirates and Anfireld is that they use portable sunguns that can be rolled around the pitch, even at night to ensure that the pitch gets the right amount of light.

So it's more an issue of how much you want to spend not just - we want grass.

I don't think a lack of sunlight is quite as limiting a factor here as it is in England. England is quite a bit north of here, and the EPL season runs through the winter. We get a lot more sunlight in March or October than England gets in December or January.

LucaGol
04-15-2009, 11:47 AM
The people who use BMO for rec soccer are most likely TFC fans anyways.

Im willing to bet any amount that if you polled the users of the field, that they would be in favour of putting a grass field at BMO and taking their business to a refurbished Lamport.

I mean, this whole community use business is just political ... and it's getting kind of silly. Taxpayer dollars pay for lots of things that taxpayers don't necessarily want or get to use on a regular basis. Just refurbish Lamport already.

ExiledRed
04-15-2009, 12:41 PM
Taxpayer dollars pay for lots of things that taxpayers don't necessarily want or get to use on a regular basis.

Like opera houses and other elitist endeavours.

napoli73
04-15-2009, 04:10 PM
I don't think we have an issue with sunlight. The problem is that our winters are much colder, and we have more snow to contend with. To have a quality natural pitch we would need a system that would allow for the turf to be mowed.

I don't think MLSE would spend a crazy amount of money trying to maintain a natural pitch. A cheap option is to use tarps to cover the turf and which would have to be kept cleared of snow as winter comes to a close like that they can pull it off and do any maintenance that needs to be done and then covered again. This would be enough to get the grass growing for the start of the season.

The key is that whatever method they use, if the grass is growing, it must be cut. If they can protect it throught the winter and try to kick start it in late winter is the best bet and a tarp system might do the trick.

Another option....not sure it would work, is to replace the current dome with one that has a transparent roof letting in sunlight, sort of like a huge greenhouse. They would be able to keep that grass growning, do all the maintenance and keep it mowed.

That is as far as i see them going.

Chevy
04-15-2009, 04:15 PM
The reason the grass is always green at Emirates and Anfireld is that they use portable sunguns that can be rolled around the pitch, even at night to ensure that the pitch gets the right amount of light.

http://johandahlqvist.com/files/PhotoOfTheDay/Emirates.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3209/2620951538_cf390390c6.jpg?v=0

So it's more an issue of how much you want to spend not just - we want grass.


Ins't the field at Emirates a combination of real grass interwoven with turf? I believe it has two or three times the durability of a 100% real pitch.

Stilts
04-15-2009, 04:17 PM
What type of turf did they install exactly. Because some recreational sports parks use turf in the states, and it pretty much gets used 24/7 as it's used for baseball,football,soccer leagues, sports camps etc.. Yet it never looks as bad as BMO.