How long before Sutton is traded?

[Pookie]

Now, this topic is not fueled by the thinking that Frei is a shoein to the next GK of the Year Award. Nor is it at all suggestive of an opinion that Sutton has hit the downward side of his career.

It is based in economics.

We carry 3 GKs. Salaries of the 3 are:

Sutton - $165k
Frei - $108k
Edwards - $48k

Sutton is the 7th highest earner on this team. Earning slightly more than Ricketts and Wynne.

We have a cap.

We have 3 GKs.

Trading Sutton would free up $165k in cap room without necessarily sacrificing the talent at that position.

Would you do it? What do you think he would fetch?

[TFC FORZA RPB]

NEVER! :drinking:

[torfchamilton]

I don't think anyone would take him at that salary and also him taking an international spot

[Shakes McQueen]

Yeah, I don't see him getting traded, even if they wanted to. He's an international to any other team, and he's not cheap.

I still see Edwards gone at some point, unless they are hoping that Sutts retires soon (which is entirely possible, if Frei starts all season).

Sutton's only real downside is the cap hit, which could be mitigated after this year, if the cap rises substantially.

- Scott

[Yohan]

Sutton has Van and Mtl as options, if Toronto does drop him.

How many more years left on Sutton's contract?

[Nuvinho]

He won't get traded. I don't think you can name any MLS team that needs an international goalkeeper making $165K.

I think the more realistic option is Sutton being released, but I highly doubt that.

[Pachuco]

Yeah, I don't see him getting traded, even if they wanted to. He's an international to any other team, and he's not cheap.

I still see Edwards gone at some point, unless they are hoping that Sutts retires soon (which is entirely possible, if Frei starts all season).

Sutton's only real downside is the cap hit, which could be mitigated after this year, if the cap rises substantially.

- Scott

Why would Sutton retire? he's 31. I'm sure in his eyes he's got another 5 to 6 years of playing left in him. Having said that, I don't think anyone in the MLS would take him for that price. I think he would end up back in the USL.

Regardless, it's not Sutton that should be traded, it's Edwards. You still need that experience around. I get that he takes up the most cap space, but do we NEED cap space at this point in time? That's something nobody knows.

[Shakes McQueen]

Why would Sutton retire? he's 31. I'm sure in his eyes he's got another 5 to 6 years of playing left in him. Having said that, I don't think anyone in the MLS would take him for that price. I think he would end up back in the USL.

Regardless, it's not Sutton that should be traded, it's Edwards. You still need that experience around. I get that he takes up the most cap space, but do we NEED cap space at this point in time? That's something nobody knows.

I know his age isn't much of a problem - but would Sutton want to go down to the USL? And would anyone in the USL pay him the kind of salary he's getting now?

I agree with you that Edwards is still more likely to go. He's not even in the conversation anymore, when it comes to our keepers.

- Scott

[Bloor West FC]

I don't see him going anytime soon. He will retire with TFC unless Ottawa some how gets a team in the next 2 years he might go there. But he is still a great goalie. And one that can teach Frei a lot more as well.

[rocker]

sutton probably has a 4 year deal... 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.
Guess who arrives in 2011? Vancouver..... and they'll need Canadians.

[Bloor West FC]

sutton probably has a 4 year deal... 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.
Guess who arrives in 2011? Vancouver..... and they'll need Canadians.


I don't know if he will go to Vancouver with his young family living here, unless they move as well but not knowing the whitecaps I would think they already have a great goalie maybe Edwards would want to go back.

[rocker]

I don't know if he will go to Vancouver with his young family living here, unless they move as well but not knowing the whitecaps I would think they already have a great goalie maybe Edwards would want to go back.

well, I have no idea what role his young family would play in his decision.
Lots of players have young families and they move around. Robinson and Dichio moved from England to Canada with young families :)

anyhow, the Whitecaps keeper is decent (Jay Nolly) but he was also an MLS reject. So until he proves himself in MLS finally, Sutton might be a nice option for a Whitecaps team that will probably need Canadians with MLS experience.

[Pookie]

I don't see him going anytime soon. He will retire with TFC unless Ottawa some how gets a team in the next 2 years he might go there. But he is still a great goalie. And one that can teach Frei a lot more as well.

So, you want a $165k teacher?

I find it a little interesting that some folks are slagging on Barrett who makes just over $200k and yet we seemed resigned to spending over $165k on a GK that doesn't play.

I like Sutton. He's all class and certainly took the time to chat with me and my family. Being Canadian is an inspiration to the kids that I coach.

That said, this is a cap world. $160k in MLS terms is a decent player.

Regarding comments about Internationals (per MLS):

"All International player slots are tradable, therefore a team may have more than or less than eight (8) International players on its roster."

... and salaries for GKs

San Jose - Joe Cannon - $190k
Seattle - Kasey Keller - $300k
RSL - Nick Rimando $116k or Chris Seitz $110k
NY - Jon Conway - $123k
New England - Matt Reis - $173k
LA - Donovan Ricketts - $150k
KC - Kevin Hartman - $165k
Houston - Pat Onstad - $181k
DC - Louis Crayton - $178k
Dallas - Dario Sala - $158k
Colorado - Matt Pickens - $127k

Columbus, Chivas and Chicago each spend at or less than $100k per GK.

Otherwise, Sutton's salary is not out of whack with the rest of the league.

A team facing injury or sub par performance might be willing to take a runner on Sutton.

We are one of the only teams that spends over $250k on our top 2 keepers. In fact, outside of Seattle, we are the only ones to do so.

[bhoybobby]

I'd rather they misplace Harmse, RR, Barrett & Wynne. Those guys hurt us more. Sutton's only fault is his distribution, it's a big flaw, but he's a good shot stopper

[Bloor West FC]

I am not saying sign him again at 165k but maybe a little less if he accepts. He is a great goalie and we are sure to use him again. Remember Frei wants to play with the international team if he ever gets a chance.

[Shakes McQueen]

Sutton's only fault is his distribution, it's a big flaw, but he's a good shot stopper

Sutton also has a tendency to charge out for balls when he shouldn't, and stay back on his line when he should be confidently claiming balls.

In terms of pure shot stopping ability though, I agree, he is talented.

- Scott

[poppamidnight]

The problem is Frei has hinted at his desire to go to europe....

I believe his comments about MLS were along the lines of it being a valuable development tool "to get experience, to be able to play every day"

Thats why he fell to us this year....

..theres no doubt now that he's the best keeper on the team

So trade sutton, then Frei bolts for europe next year?

...why risk having Edwards as an exclusive keeper

I don't think Whitecaps or Impact want to take on that level of Salary this year for the leagues (+ existing salaries) im place for their team

EDIT: an idea - maybe include Edwards in a deal with Harmse...... since it's obvious your now going to have to PAY to be able to get that useless piece of junk off (Harmse) your hands!

[ensco]

He won't get traded. I don't think you can name any MLS team that needs an international goalkeeper making $165K.

I think the more realistic option is Sutton being released, but I highly doubt that.

I don't doubt it. I think it's highly probable.

With Sutton's salary, plus perhaps Ricketts $200K, we can bring in a decent CB from Europe in a couple of weeks (on same sort of year-end arrangement that Dichio, Robert and Tebily came in on).

Sutton bleeds TFC red. My hope is that the team will treat him with respect and try hard to place him in a good situation, probably in USL-1. But I doubt that either Vancouver or Montreal would take him, they are set in net.

[Shakes McQueen]

Maybe TFC could entice him to take an actual coaching position with the club?

That would certainly give him the respect he deserves, while still freeing up the salary.

Assuming they actually want to "get rid of him", of course.

- Scott

[wzhxvy]

I do have to say, Frie was impressive yesterday for all the reasons you guys mentioned. And the other majour flaw Sutton has was although he is a good shot stopper, he gives bad rebound...Frei absolutely does not. All that being said, not time to get rid of Sutton, he is a good insurance policy for many reasons.

[dag]

Frei earned his paycheck yesterday, no doubt about it. It would be sad, though, to see a Hamilton boy dropped from the club.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

hes not going anywhere.
Frei is definitely amazing tho and Sutton may sit on the bench for a bit.
Sutton is an international and an expensive one at that. I have no doubt that Edwards will go tho

[bhoybobby]

Sutton will never progress, his distribution is terrible, unacceptable for a pro, this has been pointed out & worked on to no avail.

It's a shame, because other than that he's a good keeper. At this level though, you must be able to kick & throw effectively. It's a shame, I thought that could be coached, obviously not.

[Calvin]

i think we like sutton too much to want to see him give us a wave.

[InTheCrowd]

I'd gladly get rid of Sutton. With his salary and what we'd receive (allocation money wise) we could get a quality defender or striker. I don't trust Edwards one bit, however I think a top notch defender or a top notch striker would be priority.

[Carts]

Frei is excellent, but Frei is still very very very young...

Having a veteran keeper bring him up, even if Frei gets the bulk of the workload is worth the $165K...

I know we have a goalie coach on staff, but an actual teammate, who's been around the game, and can guide Frei through his growing up as a professional is worth its weight in gold...

Plus, Sutton proved he can come off the bench and perform (Columbus game). That's a skill/talent/ability not every keeper has. That can be HUGE in the playoffs if Frei got hurt or red carded in a big game...

$165k is worth it for goaltending depth, and goaltending experience to help Frei grow and improve (he's great already, but young)...

Carts...

[InTheCrowd]

It's called goalkeeper.

This is footy, not ice hockey.

[BuSaPuNk]

I would say keep Sutton just because it is almost impossible to trade him anywhere. Also if Frei does bolt for europe were not stuck with nothing. Sutton and Frei have been injured at some point this year already. We need the depth in the keeper spot for now until our backline is addressed.

[Carts]

I would say keep Sutton just because it is almost impossible to trade him anywhere. Also if Frei does bolt for europe were not stuck with nothing. Sutton and Frei have been injured at some point this year already. We need the depth in the keeper spot for now until our backline is addressed.

Another good point. Agreed.

Carts...

[Carts]

It's called goalkeeper.

This is footy, not ice hockey.

It's 'HOCKEY' not 'Ice Hockey'...

We don't live in europe.

Carts...

[InTheCrowd]

It's 'HOCKEY' not 'Ice Hockey'...

We don't live in europe.

Carts...

Good thing I'm not on a website which focuses on "hockey".

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I said a couple of weks back that Frei is our No1 keeper, and got scoffed at for that,
but hes the best keeper on TFC and maybe MLS..come on TFC get him signed to a long term deal, even if a Euro team comes for him you will get the transfer cash ie EDU..to MLS get the reserve league back, we have Edwards and Sutton and a few
more players looking for game action and the reserve league helped there!1

[Mikey]

Some of you guys have Goldfish memory syndrome or something. Has everyone forgotten the previous seasons issues we've had with keepers, having to borrow from the league's hardship pool? What if Cunningham sticking the boot in yesterday had ended Frei's season would we still trade Sutton?

Two number one keepers and a decent spare will do just fine thanks.

[Roogsy]

I think Frei could be good enough to trade to EUROPE.

In which case, Mo may hang on to him for a year and then sell him for a mint!

He may not want to give another MLS such a stud keeper. I gotta say...I am a fan.

In which case, we will continue to need Sutt's services. It all depends on Mo's plans I suppose.

[InTheCrowd]

I realize there could be problems IF Frei gets injured etc. but we're currently having some difficulty in defense and up front, no IF there. A top striker or defender could be useful.

[T_Mizz]

I realize there could be problems IF Frei gets injured etc. but we're currently having some difficulty in defense and up front, no IF there. A top striker or defender could be useful.
I agree, in a league that has such a low salary cap we need to be economical in our spending. That 165k could go really far in fixing our backline problem. As to the so called striker problem we have very good strikers, some of them are young too, but Dichio is good, Barrett is just not playing to his potential, Vitti is still new, White is injured, Ibee's solid.

[Shway]

let him go into Coaching, be a GK coach for the First team or even the youth teams,
i still believe he knows how to be a better GK than Frei, but them gray hairs are whats holding him back

[T_Mizz]

he's only 31 that's still young for a keeper

[Cashcleaner]

Frei is the future! Seriously, we gotta hold on to him for as long as we can. I just see so much potential in this guy that I don't want him anywhere else. Look, I got mad respect for Sutts and all his contributions, but in Frei's short stay with us he's shown some incredible skill and I think he's just gonna keep developing and refining his game. I think Sutton still have a place with Toronto FC, but perhaps not as starting keeper.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Frei is the future! Seriously, we gotta hold on to him for as long as we can. I just see so much potential in this guy that I don't want him anywhere else. Look, I got mad respect for Sutts and all his contributions, but in Frei's short stay with us he's shown some incredible skill and I think he's just gonna keep developing and refining his game. I think Sutton still have a place with Toronto FC, but perhaps not as starting keeper.

thats pretty much.
I gotta say i got alot of love for Frei after this weekends game

[Sullivan]

the keeper spot is the one position that TFC has some depth & strength...
also, fwiw, Pat Onstad is 41; born in 1968, earning $181,000 with Houston.

Sutton has plenty of MLS life left in him.
Frei is TFC's next Mo Edu; and he'll be sold before Sutton's TFC expiry date.
Edwards will still be around as well.