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FluSH
04-08-2009, 11:39 AM
When you make a mistake at work, are you held accountable?

When you make a mistake, do you say I’m sorry?

I think more highlight is needed at Cathal Kelly’s mistake that has been clearly “corrected” on page 2 of Today’s Star. To those who are journalists, how many mistakes of this magnitude are you allowed before you are reprimanded? I’m just wondering how many more lies and unfunded statements we will have from Cathal Kelly.


/Discuss


There's a correction in today's Star on page A2 regarding Sunday's article, noting that the claims that MSLE were concerned about racial abuse were untrue, and that it was MLS that had such concerns, but not in Toronto

(mods: excuse me for making a new thread, however the other thread has clearly run its course)

Blizzard
04-08-2009, 11:41 AM
When you make a mistake at work, are you held accountable?

When you make a mistake, do you say I’m sorry?

I think more highlight is needed at Cathal Kelly’s mistake that has been clearly “corrected” on page 2 of Today’s Star.

To those who are journalists, how many mistakes of this magnitude are you allowed before you are reprimanded? I’m just wondering how many more lies and unfunded statements we will have from Cathal Kelly.


/Discuss

(mods: excuse me for making a new thread, however the other thread has clearly run its course)

There has been a "news correction" but the poorly re-written statement in question still implies a TFC Supporter's "racial abuse incident". The MLSE was changed to MLS. That's all.

This isn't over. See below.

"In fact, nothing like the behaviour of Toronto FC fans would be tolerated in England. That laxity has drawn quiet concern from Major League Soccer executives, especially following incidents like last weekend's in Columbus and the racial abuse of a player last season."

FluSH
04-08-2009, 11:43 AM
^^^
Thanks for that post Blizzard

GabrielHurl
04-08-2009, 11:46 AM
http://www.thestar.com/Corrections/article/615421


Apr 08, 2009 04:30 AM

An April 5 article on the behaviour of Toronto FC soccer fans incorrectly stated that Maple Leaf Sports executives are concerned about the racial abuse of a player last season. In fact, it is executives of Major League Soccer who are concerned with that racial abuse incident. That incident did not involve any players or fans of Toronto FC, which is owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

FluSH
04-08-2009, 11:48 AM
again

"corrected"

Do we see this correction on the website? If I go an read Cathal Kelly's original column on the website, will it still say these lies?

-and-

How many mistakes are these Journalists allowed? I mean associating us with racism is A BIG DEAL.

maninb
04-08-2009, 11:55 AM
again

"corrected"

Do we see this correction on the website? If I go an read Cathal Kelly's original column on the website, will it still say these lies?

-and-

How many mistakes are these Journalists allowed? I mean associating us with racism is A BIG DEAL.


What i find IRONIC is that TFC's supporters/fans are the MOST racially diverse set of sport's fans in Toronto!!! That FACT seems lost on idiots like Kelly.

spezz44
04-08-2009, 11:55 AM
its a huge deal and a real slap in the face to the supporters group of this team, especially in a city that is diverse as Toronto is.

Lucky Strike
04-08-2009, 11:57 AM
Sadly, a lot of people are morons. It really does explain a lot you know. :D

nfitz
04-08-2009, 12:04 PM
There has been a "news correction" but the poorly re-written statement in question still implies a TFC Supporter's "racial abuse incident". The MLSE was changed to MLS. That's all.The correction clearly noted that the incident didn't involved any players or fans of Toronto FC. While I still feel that there are other issues in that article that require correction, how does that still imply a TFC Suporter's "racial abuse incident"?

FluSH
04-08-2009, 12:13 PM
Sooooo...

If our friends from abroad (South America, Englad, or whatever) were to venture off into the Toronto Star's website... will they still find the blatant lies from Cathal Kelly? or has it been deleted from the website archives?

Blizzard
04-08-2009, 12:48 PM
The correction clearly noted that the incident didn't involved any players or fans of Toronto FC. While I still feel that there are other issues in that article that require correction, how does that still imply a TFC Suporter's "racial abuse incident"?

I'm talking about the 'edited' version of Cathal's original story which is up on the Star's web site. The story still implicates TFC Supporters.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/613986

Eight paragraph from the bottom.

The correction is fine but the article is still wrong!

Blizzard
04-08-2009, 12:48 PM
Sooooo...

If our friends from abroad (South America, Englad, or whatever) were to venture off into the Toronto Star's website... will they still find the blatant lies from Cathal Kelly? or has it been deleted from the website archives?

It's still there! http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/613986

Phil
04-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Original:



In fact, nothing like the behaviour of Toronto FC fans would be tolerated in England. That laxity has drawn quiet concern from Maple Leafe Sports Entertainment executives, especially following incidents like last weekend's in Columbus and the racial abuse of a player last season.

Corrected:


In fact, nothing like the behaviour of Toronto FC fans would be tolerated in England. That laxity has drawn quiet concern from Major League Soccer executives, especially following incidents like last weekend's in Columbus and the racial abuse of a player last season.

I think this is what Blizzard is pointing out and he is right.

Steve
04-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Original:



Corrected:


I think this is what Blizzard is pointing out and he is right.

Yep. The last subject used in relation to his point is "Toronto FC fans". He goes on to talk about the laxity shown to "Toronto FC fans" because their behavior "wouldn't be tolerated in England", then cites specific examples of behavior which "wouldn't be tolerated in England" by "Toronto FC fans". Of course, one of the examples didn't involved "Toronto FC fans" at all, so to me it's pretty blatently inaccurate, and a case could be made that it's maliciously so.

Chevy
04-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Technically the correction was made, but considering the previous sentence mentions TFC it still implies to some degree that the racial abuse is TFC related.

Regardless, they printed a correction in the paper, and I doubt many will be reading the online story.

FluSH
04-08-2009, 04:22 PM
So will Cathal Kelly be held accountable for this mistake? or does the Editor just dismisses it like it was nothing.

Don Julio
04-08-2009, 04:32 PM
What i find IRONIC is that TFC's supporters/fans are the MOST racially diverse set of sport's fans in Toronto!!! That FACT seems lost on idiots like Kelly.

I would suggest that you are totally wrong about this. It seems to me both basketball and CFL have more racially diverse crowds. definitely basketball, anyway. TFC may have more different types of Europeans, though.

H Bomb
04-08-2009, 04:33 PM
Hey there's tons of South Americans....but yeah Raptors crowds are super diverse

Roogsy
04-08-2009, 04:34 PM
The CFL??? :eek:

You gotta be joking.

Basketball I can see.

But the CFL???

I am literally bowled over. Now you are just making stuff up.

Next to Basketball, I am fairly certain Soccer takes it.

In our SG alone we have:

White/European
Black
Hispanic
Asian

As a general rule, at least 2 of these groups will likely not be found watching CFL games in any large number.

Don Julio
04-08-2009, 04:35 PM
I would say Cathal gets a raise for driving hundreds of repeated hits to their site day after day after day for the same article. Maybe next week they'll change a couple more words and sell some more ads!

Don Julio
04-08-2009, 04:38 PM
The CFL??? :eek:

You gotta be joking.

Basketball I can see.

But the CFL???

I am literally bowled over. Now you are just making stuff up.

Next to Basketball, I am fairly certain Soccer takes it.

In our SG alone we have:

White/European
Black
Hispanic
Asian

As a general rule, at least 2 of these groups will likely not be found watching CFL games in any large number.

And everywhere else in the stadium it's mostly Europeans. I know I mispoke when I said CFL, and I did back away from it a bit but was too lazy to delete, but the point is TFC's crowd is far less racially diverse than Toronto is. Raptors is really about as close as you can get. But wtf does this have to do with anything? The "some of my best friends are black" argument really doesn't prove anything anyway.

Seems to me there's more Asians at CFL (Toronto) than TFC though.

Roogsy
04-08-2009, 04:43 PM
And everywhere else in the stadium it's mostly Europeans. I know I mispoke when I said CFL, and I did back away from it a bit but was too lazy to delete, but the point is TFC's crowd is far less racially diverse than Toronto is. Raptors is really about as close as you can get. But wtf does this have to do with anything? The "some of my best friends are black" argument really doesn't prove anything anyway.

Seems to me there's more Asians at CFL (Toronto) than TFC though.

You challenged the point made about the diversity and that is why I presented the points.

I would have to disagree, and I would say most would as well...but since there are no hard statistics, we will each have to believe we are correct and the other is not. But the cursory evidence would suggest your point is without foundation.

Don Julio
04-08-2009, 04:54 PM
TFC is still mostly White people. Especially when compared to Toronto's population as a whole. That's really my original point.

Wagner
04-08-2009, 05:04 PM
I only see Red.

james
04-08-2009, 06:29 PM
There has been a "news correction" but the poorly re-written statement in question still implies a TFC Supporter's "racial abuse incident". The MLSE was changed to MLS. That's all.

This isn't over. See below.

"In fact, nothing like the behaviour of Toronto FC fans would be tolerated in England. That laxity has drawn quiet concern from Major League Soccer executives, especially following incidents like last weekend's in Columbus and the racial abuse of a player last season."

i hate how they always put England up like we have to be just like England. So what if England woudln't tolerrate it, but what about all the other countries that do tolerate things like this, or even tolerate things much worse. In England you often cant even bring flag poles or banners in, and most clubs in England the atmosphere isnt what it once was. Doe's that mean we gotta get rid of flag poles and banners? Do we gotta do things like in England? if we ever did we most likely would also lose alot of are atmosphere at bmo. And hurt other MLS clubs to, would really hurt a young league jsut starting to take off with great support.

FluSH
04-08-2009, 06:37 PM
I would say Cathal gets a raise for driving hundreds of repeated hits to their site day after day after day for the same article. Maybe next week they'll change a couple more words and sell some more ads!

We try not to hot link journo trash.

Kooper
04-08-2009, 06:41 PM
The team has one thing that they can use to make him go away: they can revoke his access. Or at least reduce his access. Instead of having field privileges and locker room access only give him access to the press box. Make it so that the only interviews he can get are with the reserve team and have Carver 'forget' to ask him a question. Fans should not answer questions from Star reporters just in case.

We may have one or more whiny columns from him about how he can't file a good story. The paper will quickly realize that if they keep sending that soccer hating douche they will not get any useful writing from him and reassign him.

Kooper
04-08-2009, 06:43 PM
I would say Cathal gets a raise for driving hundreds of repeated hits to their site day after day after day for the same article. Maybe next week they'll change a couple more words and sell some more ads!

And when they read his comments that we all post he can call him self controversial.

Don't link to his stories, don't go there to read them, pretend he doesn't exist.

Derko
04-08-2009, 06:54 PM
Fuck Cathal Kelly!!

Here is some Canadian Sports related violence, Do we all remember the Montreal riot March 1955, after Rocket Richard was suspended, it goes down in the history books showing how passionate fans are about hockey.

Quote "...A riot ensued outside the Forum, causing $500,000 in damage to the neighborhood and the Forum itself. Hundreds of stores were looted and vandalized within a 15-block radius of the Forum. Twelve policemen and 25 civilians were injured. The riot continued well into the night, with police arresting people by the truckload.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Riot#cite_note-2) Local radio stations, which carried live coverage of the riot for over seven hours, had to be forced off the air. The riot eventually ended at 3 am, and left Montreal's Saint Catherine Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Catherine_Street) in shambles.

"Hockey Hooligans"

Kooper
04-08-2009, 07:03 PM
Fuck Cathal Kelly!!
Quote "...A riot ensued outside the Forum, causing $500,000 in damage to the neighborhood and the Forum itself. Hundreds of stores were looted and vandalized within a 15-block radius of the Forum. Twelve policemen and 25 civilians were injured. The riot continued well into the night, with police arresting people by the truckload.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Riot#cite_note-2) Local radio stations, which carried live coverage of the riot for over seven hours, had to be forced off the air. The riot eventually ended at 3 am, and left Montreal's Saint Catherine Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Catherine_Street) in shambles.


And there is this one as well after Vancouver lost in 1994.


After the conclusion of Game 7, rioting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Stanley_Cup_riot) took place in downtown Vancouver. In all, 540 officers were directly involved with the riot. Many individuals were arrested and charged, and up to 200 individuals were injured.[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Stanley_Cup_Finals#cite_note-Riots-31)

Unfortunately the stereotype for soccer fans has been set by incidents such as Heysel, Bradford, The 2007 murder of a cop and subsequent riots in Catania, the few fights and crowd trouble at Portugal 2004...

No matter what we do or how we behave the image of the sport and fans has been set in the mind of the media.

MUFC_Niagara
04-08-2009, 07:07 PM
News correction for April 8

Apr 08, 2009 04:30 AM

An April 5 article on the behaviour of Toronto FC soccer fans incorrectly stated that Maple Leaf Sports executives are concerned about the racial abuse of a player last season. In fact, it is executives of Major League Soccer who are concerned with that racial abuse incident. That incident did not involve any players or fans of Toronto FC, which is owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.






Hey Cathal,

How many more lies are in that article? Talk about irresponsible journalism, it's borderline slander! Get your facts straight before you label someone a racist. Everyone and their sister knows that it was the Columbus Crew fans who had a racism incident at their park last year.

Also, do your research on exactly what a "firm" is and what it has meant historically in continental Europe and the UK. I studied Football Violence in University and would be more than happy to give you a lesson on what hooliganism was and how it has historically been intertwined within the milieu of an industrial working-class culture. Hoologanism is much more than just mindless violence. Doctors, barristors, accountants, and countless other professionals have all been associated with football firms in Europe. What is it that makes these people work a solid occupation and then feel the need to fight on the weekend? Adrenaline rush, mob mentality? There is so much more to "hooliganism" than branding a group of people in the south end of the stadium hooligans because some idiot decides to throw a cup.

Now, as you are so adverse with the concept of the "firm" I am sure you know that a lot of the "firms" were started in prison yards by people doing time, or other shady areas. This is due to the fact that most of the people involved in "firms" and hence football violence are in trouble with the law 7 days a week, not just on Saturday between the hours of 12pm and 8pm. As far as a I know, none of the Red Patch Boys are career criminals and the group (or firm as you called it...lol) was formed in a pub! If you'd like to see what kind of research a real journalist does when writing on a topic of extreme sensitivity (see they Heysel and Hillsborough disasters to see why we need to be careful before using the term "firm" and "hooliganism") then i'd suggest starting with Bill Buford's book, Among The Thugs. From there I would go to Cass Pennant's book, Cass OR Congratultions, You Have Just Met The I.C.F (InnerCity Firm). As an expert on hooligans I am sure you know all about Pennant's story and that of the I.C.F. It will give you some insight into what exactly "hooliganism" is and how the "firm" has a much different mandate than that of the Red Patch Boys.

I have numerous articles, journals, books, and videos that would be of great help to you. If you need assistance researching so that you can write better informed articles on the subject, do not hesitstate to contact me.

Regards,

Tim xxxxxxxx

MUFC_Niagara
04-08-2009, 07:25 PM
^^ just sent it to him...

Corcai
04-08-2009, 08:00 PM
Uhm just curious, what was your Major?

MUFC_Niagara
04-08-2009, 08:18 PM
Uhm just curious, what was your Major?

History, Modern European

SweetOwnGoal
04-08-2009, 08:22 PM
I'm as frustrated by the article as anyone. However, having worked in a newsroom, I can tell you that it's as possible that an overzealous copy editor made the error.

The far more serious issues is the use of the word "firm." That's as much as saying that the SGs are a street gang and that the club works directly with them.

I once knew a young journalist that was let go after a probation period because they made two errors in spelling names in six months. The industry takes errors very seriously, whether you choose to believe that or not.

However, I imagine that they would argue that most of his column from Sunday falls within the boundaries of what's called fair comment. For something to be covered by fair comment you only have to prove that a reasonable person could conclude what it is that you are arguing--not every person or even most people, but simply any reasonable person. The opinion you voice also doesn't have to be correct. It just can't damage someone's reputation (unless it’s true. Truth is the ultimate defence against defamation).

Which is why the "firm" comment is the big problem in that article. The rest can be explained as a typo (in the racism error) or Kelly's opinion. Firm, however, is labelling the SGs in a way that does in fact damage the groups' reputations.

MUFC_Niagara
04-08-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm as frustrated by the article as anyone. However, having worked in a newsroom, I can tell you that it's as possible that an overzealous copy editor made the error.

The far more serious issues is the use of the word "firm." That's as much as saying that the SGs are a street gang and that the club works directly with them.

I once knew a young journalist that was let go after a probation period because they made two errors in spelling names in six months. The industry takes errors very seriously, whether you choose to believe that or not.

However, I imagine that they would argue that most of his column from Sunday falls within the boundaries of what's called fair comment. For something to be covered by fair comment you only have to prove that a reasonable person could conclude what it is that you are arguing--not every person or even most people, but simply any reasonable person. The opinion you voice also doesn't have to be correct. It just can't damage someone's reputation (unless it’s true. Truth is the ultimate defence against defamation).

Which is why the "firm" comment is the big problem in that article. The rest can be explained as a typo (in the racism error) or Kelly's opinion. Firm, however, is labelling the SGs in a way that does in fact damage the groups' reputations.

That's what I tried to stress in my letter, as someone who studied this in Uni, Kelly is dead wrong here.

Red CB Toronto
04-08-2009, 08:35 PM
There is a TFC Supporters group that uses firm in their name, so I can see how the association could be made by the media.

http://thefirm116.com/

Red CB Toronto
04-08-2009, 08:37 PM
If there is an error or a mistake in an article and it runs would the writer or the editor be the one who faces the music.

FluSH
04-08-2009, 08:40 PM
There is a TFC Supporters group that uses firm in their name, so I can see how the association could be made by the media.

http://thefirm116.com/

These are the only supporter groups recognized by Toronto FC:

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/fans/supporters_clubs/

I know the "firm" guys, and they are good guys... their name probably not the best choice, but they are a faaaaaaaaaar cry from what a FIRM is.

also, that group is a minority... if you are going to talk about that group then be specific, but don't paint us all with the same brush.

SweetOwnGoal
04-08-2009, 08:43 PM
If there is an error or a mistake in an article and it runs would the writer or the editor be the one who faces the music.

The reporter is ultimately responsible. But that doesn't mean that reporter's don't get screwed by copy editors that re-work things out of context, put inflammatory headlines on their articles, assume things ("correcting" oddly spelled names is a common one), etc.

MUFC_Niagara
04-08-2009, 08:45 PM
There is a TFC Supporters group that uses firm in their name, so I can see how the association could be made by the media.

http://thefirm116.com/

The fact that Kelly makes reference to the Firms in Europe is the issue. He probably doesn't even know this group exists otherwise he woud have used their name rather than ours.

Roogsy
04-08-2009, 08:47 PM
The fact that Kelly makes reference to the Firms in Europe is the issue. He probably doesn't even know this group exists otherwise he woud have used their name rather than ours.

I agree.

And let's not let Wheeler off the hook either...he didn't point to "The Firm" when he wrote his stupid article. He specifically highlighted us. No disrespect to "the Firm" but most people don't even know they exist.

Red CB Toronto
04-08-2009, 08:48 PM
These are the only supporter groups recognized by Toronto FC:

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/fans/supporters_clubs/

I know the "firm" guys, and they are good guys... their name probably not the best choice, but they are a faaaaaaaaaar cry from what a FIRM is.

also, that group is a minority... if you are going to talk about that group then be specific, but don't paint us all with the same brush.

I completely agree with you Flush and as you said it probably not the best choice for a name, but I can see how the associaition is made with the name out there, all it would take is someone with little knowledge doing some research and finding their site.

FluSH
04-08-2009, 08:51 PM
I completely agree with you Flush and as you said it probably not the best choice for a name, but I can see how the associaition is made with the name out there, all it would take is someone with little knowledge doing some research and finding their site.

As a journalist you would think RESEARCH is part of the job... just my guess.

Red CB Toronto
04-08-2009, 08:51 PM
The reporter is ultimately responsible. But that doesn't mean that reporter's don't get screwed by copy editors that re-work things out of context, put inflammatory headlines on their articles, assume things ("correcting" oddly spelled names is a common one), etc.

One question, how often would the reporter see the final edit? Especially if they are covering a game/event where deadlines come into play.

Suds
04-08-2009, 08:52 PM
I completely agree with you Flush and as you said it probably not the best choice for a name, but I can see how the associaition is made with the name out there, all it would take is someone with little knowledge doing some research and finding their site.

.. and sadly their research would likely end at just finding the site ... not taking the time to learn who they are and what they stand for ...

kind of sounds familiar

greatwhitenorf
04-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Heard Alex Sexeiro's radio show on the Fan this past weekend and a caller complained at length about the Star article and he had issues with it. There's a bigger awareness of this disgraceful coverage than what's reflected on this particular website.

For once, I'd be tempted to pull the Star's credentials. Most sports institutions who don't get either fair, or any kind of, coverage have traditionally ended up caving in when the Star finally deigns to send someone to write an article.

Witness the horseshit coverage they give junior hockey in this area. On any given weekend, the four junior teams within the Star's distribution area - Oshawa, Brampton, Mississauga and Barrie - would draw a minimum total of 12,000 fans if each team played one home game. Usually the number is higher.

It's our most beloved sport and junior hockey is a big part of where future NHLers come from. They ignore it. They give family-and-friends-supported high school and university sports massively more coverage than they do this vital and dynamically entertaining root stem of our true national sport - sorry lacrosse.

Often, when Damien Cox wants to spout his 'expert' opinion about prospect players, it doesn't even come from first-hand coverage. He just scalps his info from other sources and mails it in. And if they do want to have someone attend an event like the OHL finals or Memorial Cup, the junior leagues bend over and let them in.

The Star's problem is that it's had its head up its own collective ass for so long it's begun to admire the view.

TFC and it's great success were achieved in spite of what the Star offered in the way of coverage and commentary. They're useless and irrelevant to achieving the ambitions this team and its incredible fans are hoping for someday.

Bounce 'em. And do it loudly and publicly. Or I'm getting Russell Peters dad to come round and deal with them.

SweetOwnGoal
04-08-2009, 09:00 PM
One question, how often would the reporter see the final edit? Especially if they are covering a game/event where deadlines come into play.

Never.

FluSH
04-08-2009, 09:03 PM
.. and sadly their research would likely end at just finding the site ... not taking the time to learn who they are and what they stand for ...

kind of sounds familiar

FFS...

I should have gone to J-School... I mean do they teach you how to properly write?

I can't remember one paper that I did not finish without proper referencing (annotations, endnotes, etc...)

Do these trash Journos just make up their own shit? WTF?!

FluSH
04-08-2009, 09:05 PM
"let me pull a quote out of my ass... and make a column for The Toronto Star"

-Cathal Kelly



How is that for a banner?

MUFC_Niagara
04-08-2009, 09:08 PM
I hope he reads one of the books i prescribed....

nfitz
04-08-2009, 10:52 PM
However, I imagine that they would argue that most of his column from Sunday falls within the boundaries of what's called fair comment.Ah - but he didn't have a column on Sunday. He wrote a front-page article. It kind of sounded like a column - but it appeared as a news story on the front page, with absolutely no indication it was a column.

Had it simply been a column, where everyone knows the views of the columnist come into play, I don't think people would be as upset. But a news story is different.

BRed
04-09-2009, 12:14 AM
Good Idea FluSH and perhaps a chant to go along with it...a nice little McCathal combo and a little juice box for him too?

I came a long way marching
MARCHING! to this field.
I screamed so loud
they heard me in Seattle.
They tased me in Columbus.
They told me I was loud.
They labeled me a Hooligan
and that was in my hometown!

So Cathal Kelly hear me!
Cathal Kelly QUOTE ME!

They're gonna expand BMO
and my red army will grow.

K1nG
04-09-2009, 12:36 AM
"let me pull a quote out of my ass... and make a column for The Toronto Star"

-Cathal Kelly



How is that for a banner?

Great Idea!

billyfly
04-09-2009, 09:31 AM
Why is there no chant planned?

Just use the Jimmy B song.

Oh Cathal Kelly
I wanna know, why you hate us so?

Jack
04-09-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm not chanting for a reporter.

They've already had enough attention this week.

Time to focus on what we're about...the game and supporting the 11 men on the pitch.

Chevy
04-09-2009, 09:49 AM
+1. Move on.

billyfly
04-09-2009, 09:51 AM
You're right Jack.

Also, if we've passed up the opportunity for a chant for Sgt. Dick Weiner from the Columbus police force, than Cathal doesnt get one either.:(

Wagner
04-09-2009, 09:51 AM
Jack, i say rule with an iron fist leading up to the FCD game...
just shut down anything with any mention of media...reporters...columbus...

Carter
04-09-2009, 10:27 AM
We have a rockin tailgate planned for saturday! better be there!

Titan
04-09-2009, 01:45 PM
Does anyone have a copy of the original article by Cathal from Sundays Star?

nfitz
04-14-2009, 07:35 AM
Yes.

denime
04-14-2009, 08:44 AM
Guys I'm closing this thread.There is no need to talk about this matter anymore.

It is :deadhorse:

Thanks for understanding.