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jloome
04-06-2009, 06:17 PM
Anyone else wondering why we didn't stick with the formation that won at KC, with DeRo playing as a forward right behind a loan striker?

He caused all sorts of problems in that game but has been essentially silent since moving wide.

Given that Barrett isn't up to starting right now, maybe we should pair DeRo with Vitti.

spezz44
04-06-2009, 06:19 PM
very good point, i think we could see it this weekend, seeing how kc is brutal in the back and, has some quality upfront.

Blizzard
04-06-2009, 06:42 PM
Anyone else wondering why we didn't stick with the formation that won at KC, with DeRo playing as a forward right behind a loan striker?

He caused all sorts of problems in that game but has been essentially silent since moving wide.

Given that Barrett isn't up to starting right now, maybe we should pair DeRo with Vitti.

That is what I want to see!

Suds
04-06-2009, 07:05 PM
Anyone else wondering why we didn't stick with the formation that won at KC, with DeRo playing as a forward right behind a loan striker?

He caused all sorts of problems in that game but has been essentially silent since moving wide.

Given that Barrett isn't up to starting right now, maybe we should pair DeRo with Vitti.

Vitti and DeRo would work well together but I still like having DeRo in the midfield.

I agree DeRo out wide has had little success to date, but in Saturday's game there was little support for any player making a run down the wing. If he had players in support he could move the ball to after taking the ball wide and into the attacking thrid of the field we would have more success.

Jack
04-06-2009, 07:46 PM
I think a 4-4-1-1 would be fine.

The team in KC looked dangerous with their passing game and I noticed a lot more play with the ball on the deck (though still not as much as I'd like)

I think getting Barrett off to the bench and trying DeRo up there would be a good idea. He certainly looked much more dangerous in KC than he has since and we all saw what happened with Amado that game. Perhaps the key is to move DeRo forward and allow both him and Amado some room that they don't have when they're in the midfield together.

T_Mizz
04-06-2009, 07:57 PM
I have to respectfully disagree i think we don't have the players to do something like that, I think Ricketts is the player that has been the least impressive so far he should be taken out not Barrett, plus a 4-4-1-1 with Dero not one of the midfield? that's a tad scary i prefer that dero play in the midfield, it makes us much stronger even if it does weaken his ability

Plenty of Trout
04-06-2009, 08:02 PM
Anyone else wondering why we didn't stick with the formation that won at KC, with DeRo playing as a forward right behind a loan striker?

He caused all sorts of problems in that game but has been essentially silent since moving wide.

Given that Barrett isn't up to starting right now, maybe we should pair DeRo with Vitti.

Excellent observation.

I wonder why Carver changed it for this past game.

Suds
04-06-2009, 08:05 PM
I think a 4-4-1-1 would be fine.

The team in KC looked dangerous with their passing game and I noticed a lot more play with the ball on the deck (though still not as much as I'd like)

I think getting Barrett off to the bench and trying DeRo up there would be a good idea. He certainly looked much more dangerous in KC than he has since and we all saw what happened with Amado that game. Perhaps the key is to move DeRo forward and allow both him and Amado some room that they don't have when they're in the midfield together.

Do you mean with DeRo as the up front striker with Vitti behind him? Who would be your midfield with this formation?

TFCREDNWHITE
04-06-2009, 08:08 PM
@Jloome

I'm not so sure that its as easy as switching back to the tactical formation of having DeRo play in behind a loan striker is gonna automatically win us games. I honestly don't think tactics was even remotely part of the loss on Saturday.

There are sooooo many other basics that need to be covered/addressed first...

Nuvinho
04-06-2009, 08:09 PM
He means this:

--------------------------Frei/Sutton-----------------------------

Wynne-------------Serioux-----------Pylon--------------Brennan-

----------------------------Robbo-------------------------------

Cronin----------------------Guevara---------------------Ricketts

-----------------------------------DeRo------------------------

----------------------Vitti--------------------------------------

Suds
04-06-2009, 08:18 PM
He means this:

--------------------------Frei/Sutton-----------------------------

Wynne-------------Serioux-----------Pylon--------------Brennan-

----------------------------Robbo-------------------------------

Cronin----------------------Guevara---------------------Ricketts

-----------------------------------DeRo------------------------

----------------------Vitti--------------------------------------


Is that the new CB I keep hearing about?? .. sucks about his name ;)

I like that formation. Brings DeRo inside ... he can use his ability to run at players with the ball much better from there. Robinson in front of the D is a must for sure.

ExiledRed
04-06-2009, 08:26 PM
Here's a really outlandish idea.

Why dont we start the man who has scored the most goals for us, has a great finish, brings confidence to the team, draws opposing defenders away from our poachers, can score with his head, off the volley, slot them in along the deck, and chip the goalie ?

I'm starting to think Carver has a dislike for Danny Dichio, if he doesn't start next week I'll know it.

Nuvinho
04-06-2009, 08:28 PM
Here's a really outlandish idea.

Why dont we start the man who has scored the most goals for us, has a great finish, brings confidence to the team, draws opposing defenders away from our poachers, can score with his head, off the volley, slot them in along the deck, and chip the goalie ?

I'm starting to think Carver has a dislike for Danny Dichio, if he doesn't start next week I'll know it.

It would be a good idea. I just don't know if Danny can go 90 minutes.....maybe 45 minutes at most. Maybe that's why he isn't starting.....that is my opinion, but what do I know. Same with others on here, we can't say start DD when we don't know his conditioning, and whether or not he can handle playing a full game.

kdzb
04-06-2009, 08:28 PM
He means this:

--------------------------Frei/Sutton-----------------------------

Wynne-------------Serioux-----------Pylon--------------Brennan-

----------------------------Robbo-------------------------------

Cronin----------------------Guevara---------------------Ricketts

-----------------------------------DeRo------------------------

----------------------Vitti--------------------------------------

That's exactly the formation I will put against Dallas is I was JC.
I will even go the distance and give Smith a starting chance over Ricketts and if he fuckup, at least we have Ricketts in the bench.
I guess Ricketts is playing with no fear of losing his starting position that's why he is becoming lousy.
Last Saturday I was so mad to see him becoming so predictible when he has the ball. He only have one move when he take the defenders and now every defender in the league know his play and they take the ball from him so easy. :mad5:

Yohan
04-06-2009, 08:34 PM
I want tactical consistency of passing game with Barrett and Vitti up front, and long ball only when Danny D is up front

Nuvinho
04-06-2009, 08:37 PM
and less of Harmse and Brennan hoofing the ball up field everytime they get the ball.

ExiledRed
04-06-2009, 08:38 PM
It would be a good idea. I just don't know if Danny can go 90 minutes.....maybe 45 minutes at most. Maybe that's why he isn't starting.....that is my opinion, but what do I know. Same with others on here, we can't say start DD when we don't know his conditioning, and whether or not he can handle playing a full game.

Yeah with respect, What DO you know, when it comes to how long a perfectly healthy football player can remain on the pitch?

How do you even formulate an opinion on that without some information? Don't tell me it's because Danny said 'his legs arent what they used to be'

I'll bet Schelotto's aren't either.

If he's only good for 45 minutes he should be off the squad!

Nuvinho
04-06-2009, 08:41 PM
Yeah with respect, What DO you know, when it comes to how long a perfectly healthy football player can remain on the pitch?

How do you even formulate an opinion on that without some information? Don't tell me it's because Danny said 'his legs arent what they used to be'

I'll bet Schelotto's aren't either.

If he's only good for 45 minutes he should be off the squad!

I will admit, I don't know, I am just speculating......but what DO you know, since you feel that DD can go 90 minutes? Do you have inside information?

Pigfynn
04-06-2009, 08:45 PM
I'm sure Danny could go 60-65 mins, no problem....and that's long enough. Then put Barrett on to run around like crazy for a half hour.

ExiledRed
04-06-2009, 08:46 PM
I will admit, I don't know, I am just speculating......but what DO you know, since you feel that DD can go 90 minutes? Do you have inside information?

He's getting paid. That's my inside information. If he can only go 45 minutes, he should be getting disability allowance.

The depth issue in MLS doesn't give us the luxury to have players who cant play.

If he's on the squad he has to be good for it, or he should go now.

Anyway, it's absolutely normal to sub your striker after sixty to seventy minutes, even if he's on the verge of a hat trick. It happens to much younger strikers all over the world every week. I don't think I can remember Michael Owen playing the full 90.

Nuvinho
04-06-2009, 08:52 PM
Next game, would you start DD and Vitti against a backline of Moor and John/Purdy?

DD would probably be covered by the inexperienced John

Vitti probably has better footspeed than Moor

MG42
04-06-2009, 09:02 PM
I agree with Exiled, DD should get the start this week.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-06-2009, 10:47 PM
I want the 4-3-3 we saw last game

------------Sutton---------
Wynne---Velez---Serioux---Brennan
Cronin------Guevara------Robbo---
Vitti--------DeRo---------Dichio

Suboff Dichio for Barrett and if necessary put Ricketts on or Smith on later on in the game. Also we will have Harmse if Robbo or Cronin go down.

T_Mizz
04-06-2009, 10:50 PM
I agree with Oss, I mean what Kristian Jack said on the Footy Show Podcast this week is absolutely true, we don't really have any effective wingers, we should be keeping it in the middle of the park with a 4-3-3

Yohan
04-06-2009, 11:00 PM
I want the 4-3-3 we saw last game

------------Sutton---------
Wynne---Velez---Serioux---Brennan
Cronin------Guevara------Robbo---
Vitti--------DeRo---------Dichio

Suboff Dichio for Barrett and if necessary put Ricketts on or Smith on later on in the game. Also we will have Harmse if Robbo or Cronin go down.

More like

---------------Sutton
Wynne----Velez----Serioux----Brennan
--------------Robinson
--------Cronin-------Guevara
----Vitti----------------De Rosario
--------------Dichio

tlear
04-06-2009, 11:01 PM
Dichio should definitely be starting, paired with Vitti or alone up front

jloome
04-06-2009, 11:03 PM
More like

---------------Sutton
Wynne----Velez----Serioux----Brennan
--------------Robinson
--------Cronin-------Guevara
----Vitti----------------De Rosario
--------------Dichio

Yah, that's ideal.

Fushida
04-06-2009, 11:06 PM
That's exactly the formation I will put against Dallas is I was JC.
I will even go the distance and give Smith a starting chance over Ricketts and if he fuckup, at least we have Ricketts in the bench.
I guess Ricketts is playing with no fear of losing his starting position that's why he is becoming lousy.
Last Saturday I was so mad to see him becoming so predictible when he has the ball. He only have one move when he take the defenders and now every defender in the league know his play and they take the ball from him so easy. :mad5:

That really REALLY reminds me of someone... oh yea... Jo Smith :rolleyes:

Believe it or not we seem to be short on decent wingers... who woulda thought.. I hope Ricketts gets his act together soon... because the thought of Jo Smith doing those stepovers and knocking the ball with his left foot and chasing after it for a whole game frightens me.

T_Mizz
04-06-2009, 11:08 PM
As terrible as Smith is there is something about him on the left and wynne on the right that gets me hard

ensco
04-07-2009, 01:29 PM
Yeah with respect, What DO you know, when it comes to how long a perfectly healthy football player can remain on the pitch?

How do you even formulate an opinion on that without some information? Don't tell me it's because Danny said 'his legs arent what they used to be'

I'll bet Schelotto's aren't either.

If he's only good for 45 minutes he should be off the squad!

This "DD can't go 90 minutes" mullarkey drives me ninsane. It was started by Mo and Carver late last season, who were laying the groundwork for cutting Danny's salary. Danny's a true champ, so he toes the party line.

Dichio is injury prone, but it's NOT the same thing as an inability to go 90.

Oldtimer
04-07-2009, 01:47 PM
This "DD can't go 90 minutes" mullarkey drives me ninsane. It was started by Mo and Carver late last season, who were laying the groundwork for cutting Danny's salary. Danny's a true champ, so he toes the party line.

Dichio is injury prone, but it's NOT the same thing as an inability to go 90.

Conspiracy alert!!!

Actually, Danny has talked quite openly of not recovering quickly, of being in pain, and has already said he's retiring after this year. Player's, especially those who love the game like DD does, don't retire unless they really can't take it any more.

That being said, I would like him to start and do 60 minutes. That's good enough.

ExiledRed
04-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Conspiracy alert!!!

Actually, Danny has talked quite openly of not recovering quickly, of being in pain, and has already said he's retiring after this year. Player's, especially those who love the game like DD does, don't retire unless they really can't take it any more.

That being said, I would like him to start and do 60 minutes. That's good enough.

Please relay the quotes and sources if you can.

The part where Danny says, "I don't have 90 minutes in me" would be helpful.

Like I said, if he's in too much pain to play or hasn't recovered he should be getting workers compensation, not $115,000 off our capped salary .

trane
04-07-2009, 02:12 PM
We need to put our best 11 players on the pitch, and in their best positions. Right now that means playing Dichio, it means playing DeRo in a more central role, it means not playing Harmse, Barret , and maybe Rickets,


Some of you have already shown formations that I think are workable, other then I am not convinced about Velez, but if it means that is the only way to bench Harmse I would agree.


I have put this up before, and I think it makes sense.


-------------------------sutton/frei------------------------------------
Wynne--------------serioux---------------nana/velez-----------Brennan------

--------Cronin-----------------Guevrra-------------------Robbo--------------

------------------Vitti------------------------DeRo----------------------------

--------------------------------Dichio-----------------------------------------


Others have shown similar formation, and I think that is the way to go. We need to win on Saturday. If we need to win, I put Danny in.

Darlofletch
04-07-2009, 02:13 PM
I agree we need to go back to playing like we did against KC. The last couple of games we've had 2 strikers and 3 attacking midfielders, and only Robbo between them and the defence, and we've looked incapable of passing it through midfield, leaving the long ball as the only option, which is never going to work with Barrett and Vitti up front.

Bring in Cronin as an extra defensive midfielder to give the defence more options than just robbo or the long ball, bench Ricketts and encourage Wynne to go forward on the right as Cronin can be there to cover up the numerous times he's caught out of position.

Try and play the ball along the ground, if it doesn't work and we need to play long ball, make sure Dichio's on ther pitch first.

Suds
04-07-2009, 02:14 PM
Conspiracy alert!!!

Actually, Danny has talked quite openly of not recovering quickly, of being in pain, and has already said he's retiring after this year. Player's, especially those who love the game like DD does, don't retire unless they really can't take it any more.

That being said, I would like him to start and do 60 minutes. That's good enough.


Please relay the quotes and sources if you can.

The part where Danny says, "I don't have 90 minutes in me" would be helpful.

Like I said, if he's in too much pain to play or hasn't recovered he should be getting workers compensation, not $115,000 off our capped salary .

Back in October Dichio was questioning his future:
Dichio Unsure About Future - http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20081017&content_id=196603&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

But since he decided to some back his plans have been to fight for a spot on the team, get playing time, and contribute.

Dichio Set to Stay with Reds - http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20081205&content_id=207844&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

Dichio Excited by Challenge - http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090204&content_id=215585&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

I still think DD can have an impact on the field and deserves a start on Saturday. How his body holds up long term we will not know until later. He's on the roster to play ... so let's play him.

Suds
04-07-2009, 02:18 PM
We need to put our best 11 players on the pitch, and in their best positions. Right now that means playing Dichio, it means playing DeRo in a more central role, it means not playing Harmse, Barret , and maybe Rickets,


Some of you have already shown formations that I think are workable, other then I am not convinced about Velez, but if it means that is the only way to bench Harmse I would agree.


I have put this up before, and I think it makes sense.


-------------------------sutton/frei------------------------------------
Wynne--------------serioux---------------nana/velez-----------Brennan------

--------Cronin-----------------Guevrra-------------------Robbo--------------

------------------Vitti------------------------DeRo----------------------------

--------------------------------Dichio-----------------------------------------


Others have shown similar formation, and I think that is the way to go. We need to win on Saturday. If we need to win, I put Danny in.

Definitely agree with the statement of putting the best 11 on in their positions, and the 11 you have listed I think are the best 11 at the moment ... just not sure about having Robinson wide ... I like him better in the holding role in front of the D.

Jack
04-07-2009, 02:27 PM
Maybe a 4-2-2-2

Similar to what you posted, Trane, only push Vitti up a bit more.

I don't know. My feeling is, why not go back to what worked in KC? With DeRo given a more forward free role he was great that game, as was Guevara. Since then neither has looked great (I know Guevara wasn't here for Columbus).

You'd probably have to bench Barrett and bring Dichio off the bench in the second half.

trane
04-07-2009, 02:28 PM
^ They are not supposed to be wingers, it is just a formation Milan uses, the two outside mids , are not as wide as wingers, they line up just infront and between the CB and Full Backs, to protect the backline, the full backs take a more attacking/winger role, something that both Wynne and Brennan are rather good at that.

Suds
04-07-2009, 02:49 PM
^ They are not supposed to be wingers, it is just a formation Milan uses, the two outside mids , are not as wide as wingers, they line up just infront and between the CB and Full Backs, to protect the backline, the full backs take a more attacking/winger role, something that both Wynne and Brennan are rather good at that.

OK ... I see what you're saying now.

It looks like Dallas' attacking strength is down the middle so having our full backs play a more attacking formation down the wings could really pressure them without opening us up defensively.

ExiledRed
04-07-2009, 02:50 PM
DANNY DICHIO SAID:

I haven't come here to sit on the bench or sit in the stands to watch games because I would have retired if that was the case."



He didn't retire, so by his estimation, he's capable and willing.

He's the man up front right now, and seems to be the only player who knows how to get the ball to Vitti. He's proven himself twice now. All the 'too old' comments were thrown around last season, before he was started against Beckham & Galaxy and scored the first.

Jack
04-07-2009, 02:52 PM
I understand what you're saying, Ian.

I think him and Vitti would work well together.

trane
04-07-2009, 02:55 PM
OK ... I see what you're saying now.

It looks like Dallas' attacking strength is down the middle so having our full backs play a more attacking formation down the wings could really pressure them without opening us up defensively.


yeah, I do not think Carver will do it, but anyway that is what I would love to see.

Ultra & Proud
04-07-2009, 03:54 PM
More like

---------------Sutton
Wynne----Velez----Serioux----Brennan
--------------Robinson
--------Cronin-------Guevara
----Vitti----------------De Rosario
--------------Dichio

Exactly what I would like to see. Now if Velez was removed and someone with some skill (ie. no one we have) were inserted at that CB spot, I think I would go f*in' nuts:willy_nilly:

nimamalek
04-07-2009, 04:28 PM
and less of Harmse and Brennan hoofing the ball up field everytime they get the ball.

part of the reason why Brennan was hoofing the ball was because most of the game Dero was caught up field and Brennan had no one to pass to on his side. I dont like Dero in the middle he is suspect defensively,
the 4-2-3-1 works well with dero floating behind the loan striker

giambac
04-07-2009, 06:10 PM
Anyone else wondering why we didn't stick with the formation that won at KC, with DeRo playing as a forward right behind a loan striker?

He caused all sorts of problems in that game but has been essentially silent since moving wide.

Given that Barrett isn't up to starting right now, maybe we should pair DeRo with Vitti.


Giood question. Who changed the winning formula????? One guess now....could it have been Carver???????:noidea:

Rhapido
04-07-2009, 09:57 PM
Anyone else wondering why we didn't stick with the formation that won at KC, with DeRo playing as a forward right behind a loan striker?

He caused all sorts of problems in that game but has been essentially silent since moving wide.

Given that Barrett isn't up to starting right now, maybe we should pair DeRo with Vitti.

Totally agree. All I can think of is that Carver really rates Barrett and has cut him a lot of slack. 3 stinkers may about to it for him.

The other question is: do you keep playing RR??!

Ossington Mental Youth
04-07-2009, 10:09 PM
Bench RR until he gets his head settled, use him as subs to see how hes doing and if he finds his pace, keep him on, if hes still shit at the end of the year drop him or whatever is necessary

rocker
04-08-2009, 08:15 AM
All I can think of is that Carver really rates Barrett and has cut him a lot of slack.

the thing is, they just gave Barrett a new 4 year contract, which pays him 200K this season. They gotta let him work it out, because at that price, with no goals, his value is low in a trade right now.

Both Vitti and Barrett have acknowledged a chemistry between them, so they seem to feel comfortable with each other. I assume Carver will play this out and let Barrett find his feet. It helps that Barrett actually works his ass off no matter how badly he's screwing up in front of goal.

I'm not sold on Barrett, but these are just some reasons why I think Carver will keep putting him out there.

mclaren
04-08-2009, 08:40 AM
Dichio came on and tried to do a job against Seattle but if I'm honest with myself, I think his time has come and gone. He is not the kind of player we need to be reaching for the play-offs and at best, should be coming off the bench with ten minutes to go. I hate to say this about the guy, but I think it's better we be realistic with ourselves. However, it's not like we have an embarrassment of riches up front, so either way we don't have strong options in the striker position to make us really be a top tier team.

.J.B.
04-08-2009, 08:51 AM
not "loan"... rather "lone" as in alone.... (sorry but if you are never corrected....)

Pachuco
04-08-2009, 08:57 AM
the thing is, they just gave Barrett a new 4 year contract, which pays him 200K this season. They gotta let him work it out, because at that price, with no goals, his value is low in a trade right now.

Both Vitti and Barrett have acknowledged a chemistry between them, so they seem to feel comfortable with each other. I assume Carver will play this out and let Barrett find his feet. It helps that Barrett actually works his ass off no matter how badly he's screwing up in front of goal.

I'm not sold on Barrett, but these are just some reasons why I think Carver will keep putting him out there.

If those are the reasons, then those are some terrible reasons (not knocking you Rocker, I happen to think the same as you). Carver needs a little lesson from Ron Wilson, bench any fucker who isn't playing well, it doesn't matter who he is. If you bench him, and he doesn't respond, then get rid of him. That goes for both Barrett and Ricketts. I don't want to see them on the field come saturday. Unless it's in a substitute role. They need a wake up call.

Oh, and I think this may be one of the most productive threads, I think most people are on the same page as far as formation and players that should be on the field come saturday. Cronin and Dichio should get the start, there are a few formations Carver has to pick from if he does that.

Yohan
04-08-2009, 09:06 AM
it's funny, because Carver was all about 'earning your shirt' mentality last year

mclaren
04-08-2009, 09:20 AM
it's funny, because Carver was all about 'earning your shirt' mentality last year

Ricketts definitely needs to be dropped, if only to show him that his place must be earned. He's a nice guy but that's not what he is here for.

DaBandit
04-08-2009, 09:49 AM
I would like to see this formation this weekend against Dallas

------------------Sutton
Wynne-----Serioux-----Velez-----Brennan
------------------Robo
Cronin------------Guevara-------De Ro
----------Dichio---------Vitti

Please keep ricketts on the bench and get us a CB!

ACSertL
04-08-2009, 10:01 AM
I would like to see this formation this weekend against Dallas

------------------Sutton
Wynne-----Serioux-----Velez-----Brennan
------------------Robo
Cronin------------Guevara-------De Ro
----------Dichio---------Vitti

Please keep ricketts on the bench and get us a CB!

I like a formation that has both Velez and Dichio in it as it gives us some height on set pieces, both attacking and defending. As well, I like Cronin on the right so Wynne can go forward and there will be adequate cover if Dallas tries to counter. Ideally I'd like De Rosario playing right behind Vitti but that would be an option if Dichio was subbed out for Ricketts.

bangersandmash
04-08-2009, 10:08 AM
3-5-2!!

---Sutton
---Wynne -- Serioux -- Valez
--Cronin -- Robbo
De-Ro-- Guevara -- BRENNAN
----Dichio---Vitti

Sure, it makes our defence even worse, but it ties up the midfield with two defensive mids and allows Brennan to move up into a more aggressive position. It'll never happen but we're already on a two-game goal drought. Either we focus on the offence or we admit that we're playing for nil-nil defensive snore-fests.

mclaren
04-08-2009, 10:18 AM
------------ Frei ---------------
Wynne - Serioux -- Velez -- Brennan
-----Gala--Robinson--Cronin--------
----------Guevara------------------
---------Vitti -- DeRo---------------

DaBandit
04-08-2009, 10:24 AM
I like a formation that has both Velez and Dichio in it as it gives us some height on set pieces, both attacking and defending. As well, I like Cronin on the right so Wynne can go forward and there will be adequate cover if Dallas tries to counter. Ideally I'd like De Rosario playing right behind Vitti but that would be an option if Dichio was subbed out for Ricketts.

Exactly.. having the option to move dero forward late in the game would allow us to bring DD off in the 2nd half... but we have been exposed in the air the last two game without DD in the lineup on set pieces (big time in 2nd game)... either way RR needs to earn his shirt b4 he gets another start, and i have liked what i have seen from cronin so far, he seems to be a intelligent player who as you said can cover for wynne when he goes forward..

TFCREDNWHITE
04-08-2009, 10:43 AM
We need to put our best 11 players on the pitch, and in their best positions. Right now that means playing Dichio, it means playing DeRo in a more central role, it means not playing Harmse, Barret , and maybe Rickets,


Some of you have already shown formations that I think are workable, other then I am not convinced about Velez, but if it means that is the only way to bench Harmse I would agree.


I have put this up before, and I think it makes sense.


-------------------------sutton/frei------------------------------------
Wynne--------------serioux---------------nana/velez-----------Brennan------

--------Cronin-----------------Guevrra-------------------Robbo--------------

------------------Vitti------------------------DeRo----------------------------

--------------------------------Dichio-----------------------------------------


Others have shown similar formation, and I think that is the way to go. We need to win on Saturday. If we need to win, I put Danny in.


This is exactly the line-up we should be using against Dallas

One tweak though...

------------------------------Frei------------------------------------

Wynne--------------Serioux----------------Velez-----------Brennan---

-------------------------------Robbo---------------------------------

------------Cronin-----------------------------Guevrra----------------

-----------------------Vitti--------------DeRo-------------------------

--------------------------------Dichio---------------------------------

Whaddya think??

T_Mizz
04-08-2009, 01:02 PM
^Is that a flying V formation, Mighty Ducks style?

Steve
04-08-2009, 02:08 PM
If those are the reasons, then those are some terrible reasons (not knocking you Rocker, I happen to think the same as you). Carver needs a little lesson from Ron Wilson, bench any fucker who isn't playing well, it doesn't matter who he is. If you bench him, and he doesn't respond, then get rid of him. That goes for both Barrett and Ricketts. I don't want to see them on the field come saturday. Unless it's in a substitute role. They need a wake up call.

Oh, and I think this may be one of the most productive threads, I think most people are on the same page as far as formation and players that should be on the field come saturday. Cronin and Dichio should get the start, there are a few formations Carver has to pick from if he does that.

My only problem with that, is I get the impression Barrett isn't the type of player that will improve after being benched (granted this is only from watching him play). He seems like a player that needs that boost of confidence, so benching him and essentially telling him you don't believe might have the opposite effect to what you're looking for. I'm not saying the day won't come, I just think Carver has to think of the future as well.

On the other hand, Ricketts needs to be benched, now. He needs to be sent a message, get working on your game, not your popularity.

rocker
04-08-2009, 02:32 PM
in a salary capped league can you afford to a bench a guy (Barrett) who's making 200K?
maybe for a game or two... but after that, he becomes a pretty expensive benchwarmer. i don't know if his contract is guaranteed, but i don't think he'd get that much in a trade now that he's at that wage.

i think a benching is useful for guys who don't give the effort, but my impression with Barrett has always been that he gives it his all. Even in Chicago, Fire fans were sad to see him go because he always hustled. can you teach finishing by his age?

ExiledRed
04-08-2009, 05:09 PM
in a salary capped league can you afford to a bench a guy (Barrett) who's making 200K?
maybe for a game or two... but after that, he becomes a pretty expensive benchwarmer. i don't know if his contract is guaranteed, but i don't think he'd get that much in a trade now that he's at that wage.

i think a benching is useful for guys who don't give the effort, but my impression with Barrett has always been that he gives it his all. Even in Chicago, Fire fans were sad to see him go because he always hustled. can you teach finishing by his age?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Are you saying we should keep playing someone who's below standard because they're overpaid?

If his contract is guaranteed, whoever is responsible for that should be held accountable.

Why is our best player taking a paycut so we can afford to have a substandard player failing all over the pitch?

Jamaicanadian
04-08-2009, 05:46 PM
......can you teach finishing by his age?

There are some that suggest that good strikers are born not made.....
Most pro. teams are continually looking for good strikers......

As far as overpaying players.......usually the GM/manager will be held accountable by the owners for making poor decisions .

rocker
04-08-2009, 06:18 PM
Are you saying we should keep playing someone who's below standard because they're overpaid?


yes, if it's a guaranteed contract and you can't move him. You must play him in the hopes he lives up to his end of the bargain.

The question is whether you can afford to pay a benchwarmer 200K in a capped league. If there were no cap, you could just pay someone equal or more to do what needs to be done and eat the 200K on the failing player.

If this 200K guaranteed, zero goals player can be moved, so be it.
But if not, you gotta send him out there in the hopes he rediscovers his 9-goal form of the previous season.

If he sits on the bench, I can guarantee he won't score any goals, and the team is out 200K for nothing. Thankfully, we know that Barrett is still hustling and trying. It's been his history that he gets shitloads of chances and eventually scores enough (see the youtube videos). We'll have to live with the frustration, I guess.

Blaming Mo Johnston is a separate issue and doesn't relate to the practical issues of roster, and cap, that I'm considering.

Jamaicanadian
04-08-2009, 06:42 PM
rocker!
I'm not blaming anybody......yet....much too early for that.

Mo does relate though because he is the one that gets the players for the roster and decides how much $$ they should be compensated......as far as know.

John Carver is the one that picks the squad each game....I'd be very surprised if where a player falls on the pay scale is a major determining factor in team selection from week to week....

Pachuco
04-08-2009, 08:46 PM
in a salary capped league can you afford to a bench a guy (Barrett) who's making 200K?
maybe for a game or two... but after that, he becomes a pretty expensive benchwarmer. i don't know if his contract is guaranteed, but i don't think he'd get that much in a trade now that he's at that wage.

i think a benching is useful for guys who don't give the effort, but my impression with Barrett has always been that he gives it his all. Even in Chicago, Fire fans were sad to see him go because he always hustled. can you teach finishing by his age?

Rocker, sorry man, in a salary cap league or not, you don't play a player because of what he's making. Did you forget what happened to Cunty once he started playing like shit? he got benched and got driven out of town. That's life and it can happen to Barrett just as easily. You don't produce, you don't play. Barrett is in a slump and sometimes what gets players out of mental slumps is watching a game from the bench. And yes, I'm suggesting one game on the bench, then take it from there based on how he reacts in practice.

FluSH
04-08-2009, 08:54 PM
It's been what 3 games... I have high hopes for Barrett. You can see he wants it... that hunger is there and to me that speaks volumes.

Patience... we will all be chanting the "Barrett It's Magic" chant soone enough

trane
04-09-2009, 09:46 AM
^ I hope you are right, and he does have the work ethic at least on the pitch. However, my problem with his is not that he is not producing goals, that will likely be turned around and a three game draugth is not to be allarmed, but what does worry me about him, is how the team looks coming foraward when he is on the pitch, they look disorganized and unimaginative. They have simply looked much better for the streches Dichio has been on the pitch.

jloome
04-09-2009, 05:22 PM
Be interesting to see what he does with Dero. I'm betting he's central behind a lone forward this weekend. Can't reward barrett and rohan for last week.

Get In There
04-09-2009, 06:44 PM
Patience with Barrett makes perfect sense ....

then I picture 'the miss' in KC

as bad as any cunny made.......how do you not pass off to DeRo.....'any' natural instinct and it's off to the right.

monumentally bad

inextricably bad

jloome
04-09-2009, 08:34 PM
Patience with Barrett makes perfect sense ....

then I picture 'the miss' in KC

as bad as any cunny made.......how do you not pass off to DeRo.....'any' natural instinct and it's off to the right.

monumentally bad

inextricably bad

Hell, I see that a bit differently. He squared up to roll it into the corner, then saw DeRo out the corner of his eye and ended out getting stuck halfway between, passing it to hartman. I've had some pretty weird outcomes from second-guessing myself in sports and music, so I can see that.

My issue with him is that he was just plain awful in terms of movement, finding space, etc. He just wasn't on the park.

Get In There
04-09-2009, 09:13 PM
J, I agree with your sentiments but I don't think the pass was a corner of the eye thing - dero was wide open the whole way with him early - Barrett coming in from past the corner (as I remember) on an angle.

it's in his head - thinking too much - it would be so natural and easy to slide it right over.

Hockey, Basketball all the same action

But then he decided to have a thought

:noidea:

B