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johnmolinaro
04-05-2009, 09:53 PM
Hey gang,

At the risk of incurring the collective wrath of the board, I thought I would post this message in defence of Cathal Kelly.

I should start out by stating I'm not friends with Cathal. We briefly chat and exchange pleasantries whenever we see each other at Toronto FC games, but that's about it.

I do, however, know Cathal well enough to tell you he is a passionate soccer fan and that he is not a rabid soccer hater, as he has been portrayed by a lot of people on this board.

I know some of you feel he deliberatly writes to provoke a negative reaction from readers, but I can tell you that he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to stir things up.

Do I always agree with what he writes? No. Often times I don't.

But even though I sometimes disagree with Cathal, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that he is a very good journalist and a talented writer. He has a lovely turn of phrase and has the ability to write with such descriptive prose, and I have developed a healthy respect for him.

This likely won't change anybody's view of him, and that's fine. I just wanted to put in a good word for the guy.

John Molinaro
CBCSports.ca

menefreghista
04-05-2009, 10:00 PM
How is he a very good journalist if he prints out right lies? I thought part of being a good journalist involved not making shit up?

Why are you defending this douchebag if he can't even get his facts straight?

Brooker
04-05-2009, 10:01 PM
his article misleads people into thinking we're racist.

don't defend that piece of shit.

speaking of which, why dont u post about this dickhead in the other thread already dedicated to him? the last thing that cunt needs is another thread.

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2009, 10:13 PM
We hate him for the content of his articles, not the eloquence of the sentences.

He specializes in writing incredibly inflammatory, snarky articles about Toronto FC, and it's fans.

For lack of a better expression: Fuck that guy.

You're cool though, John.

- Scott

nfitz
04-05-2009, 10:17 PM
If he's such a good guy, then I'm sure he'll be printing all the corrections to his misleading article on Monday or Tuesday.

It's yellow journalism, and it's absolutely shameful.

And any member of the media that isn't jumping up and down and pointing this out is equally to blame.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-05-2009, 10:19 PM
Good on you john to defend a fellow journalist.
That being said we still hate him, HA

johnmolinaro
04-05-2009, 10:26 PM
If he's such a good guy, then I'm sure he'll be printing all the corrections to his misleading article on Monday or Tuesday.

It's yellow journalism, and it's absolutely shameful.

And any member of the media that isn't jumping up and down and pointing this out is equally to blame.

To be honest, I've never felt comfortable about calling out one of my media colleagues in print because too often it disintegrates into a pissing contest.

Other writers don't have the same reservations as I do and I know of one who recently called out Cathal, but I believe it's a cheap way to produce news copy and it smacks of grandstanding and hubris.

Just my view, though.

johnmolinaro
04-05-2009, 10:29 PM
You're cool though, John.

- Scott

LOL! Thanks.

CretanBull
04-05-2009, 10:30 PM
Hey John,

I respect your opinion so your thoughts on the matter are important (to me anyways!). Obviously none of us can speak to Cathal's motives but whether he honestly believes what he writes or if he's just trying to stir the pot in the end we're the one left holding the bag. No one is in denial about the serious problems that happened in Columbus and the problems that sometimes happen at BMO (throwing things on the pitc etc).

What we have to take objection to is the invented association between supporter's groups - specifically the RPB - and that bad behaviour. MLSE was quick to aknowledge the roll that we play in self-policing but the media have failed to recognize that. Instead, in Cathal's article, we're linked to violence, destruction of private property and in a sly way racism. Our supporter's group has - at Cathal's insistance - become a "firm". So the problems in Columbus, becomes our fault. The beer being thrown at BMO, becomes our fault too. The general impression that the South end is a mob of unruliness where people are often escorted out of by the police, becomes fault too.

Lost in the "PEOPLE WERE TASERED!" journalism of this past week is the fact that as a supporter's group we're against all of things that we've been connected to. We've become the victims of hatchet job articles that from our perspective are more about sensationalism than about facts. Maybe an article about the tens of thousands of dollars that we've raised for the Terry Fox Foundation, the little league team we sponsor, the food-drives that we participate in etc. don't make for front page reading but it's a more honest view of what we're about.

JDG
04-05-2009, 10:31 PM
Thanks for sharing this John.
I strongly doubt there is anything that anyone can say that will make most of us believe that he isn't deliberately trying to provoke us.
Soccer fan or not, he doesn't write for the fans, he writes for the sport's detractors. If he is infact a fan, he should do the sport a favour, and remove himself from the role of covering it.

BuSaPuNk
04-05-2009, 10:31 PM
I don't care what kind of guy he is. He could be one of my best friends....but his ability to be a "journalist" and write complete and uter lies about everything and anything if a fucking crock of shit. He is just writing for a crowd of disgruntled TML and Raptors fans that want to jump on the soccer isn't a real sport and we really shouldn't care about it...it's full of hooligans and racism and such. Fuck him. Your a writer for a Toronto newspaper and a so called fan of the game? You should be writing about the game, not making up shit about the supporters and the fans. Period.

P.S. John I love your articles and really enjoy hearing your thoughts on the CBC broadcasts. Great job keep it up.

Rocco
04-05-2009, 10:40 PM
To be honest, I've never felt comfortable about calling out one of my media colleagues in print because too often it disintegrates into a pissing contest.

Other writers don't have the same reservations as I do and I know of one who recently called out Cathal, but I believe it's a cheap way to produce news copy and it smacks of grandstanding.

Just my view, though.

in the end everyone needs to earn a coin right? It's all about him getting the job done by the end of the day, disregarding the truth? As a fan, I ask him to come join us one day. If he's such a soccer supporter like u claim to be, then it wouldn't be really that hard for him to tell it the way it is now isnt it? But u and I know the truth doesnt sell now does it? In my opinion, ur fighting a loosing battle. A for effort but no luck this time.

Damien
04-05-2009, 10:48 PM
Convert this to German...

The Cathal The

Daveisonfire
04-05-2009, 10:56 PM
Convert this to German...

The Cathal The
die Cathal die lol





Which brings me to this point...

I don't find myself respecting Adolf Hitler because he was a great speaker








Haha, okay, hyperbole:D

nfitz
04-05-2009, 10:57 PM
To be honest, I've never felt comfortable about calling out one of my media colleagues in print because too often it disintegrates into a pissing contest.I can understand the reluctance - like the police, there does seem to be a belief that you should protect your own. I work in a profession where if I don't call someone out on something that they do that is wrong, I become as liable as they are ... so I tend to forget that many don't work in regulated professions.

CretanBull
04-05-2009, 11:04 PM
I don't find myself respecting Adolf Hitler because he was a great speaker


You don't respect Hitler? You're out of our firm! :D

Oblio2
04-05-2009, 11:08 PM
Cathal Kelly and Gareth Wheeler can go felch themselves silly....both are shit journalists with no integrity.

Toronto Ruffrider
04-05-2009, 11:09 PM
Instead, in Cathal's article, we're linked to violence, destruction of private property and in a sly way racism.

There's a fine line between attack-minded reporting and outright slander. Perhaps a lawsuit would remind Cathal or the Star a thing or two about journalism.

andyc
04-05-2009, 11:09 PM
So I'm confused....

John - You are highly respected in this community and you chose to stick out your neck to support someone that most football fans think is a complete asshole. I assume that you're not doing this for fun or to cause shit so do you think that anything can be changed with your post??

Right now most people on this forum think that Kelly is a completely ignorant opinionated self centered anti soccer trouble maker. None of his articles to date have ever provided any evidence to the contrary.

So my question is... Are you completely smashed in posting this or do you think that this apparent asshole can be converted? If he truly is a football fan then what is he missing or what does he want to change?

I'm sure that he's been invited to join the party before now, but if not do you think it would help?? Anyone who can get front page coverage in a major TO paper that is a "football fan" is worth investing time to educate or convert.

Unless as lots of people suspect... He's a self serving ignorant prick out to cause shit in order to get attention...

nfitz
04-05-2009, 11:23 PM
There's a fine line between attack-minded reporting and outright slander. Perhaps a lawsuit would remind Cathal or the Star a thing or two about journalism.Just file a complaint with the Ontario Press Council. They only get a 100 or so complaints a year ...

rocker
04-05-2009, 11:41 PM
Other writers don't have the same reservations as I do and I know of one who recently called out Cathal, but I believe it's a cheap way to produce news copy and it smacks of grandstanding and hubris.

are you referring to Brunt's article in the Globe?

johnmolinaro
04-05-2009, 11:55 PM
are you referring to Brunt's article in the Globe?

it's not important who it was, and it doesn't really matter.

The purpose of my original post was just to let you know that from talking to Cathal personally and getting to know him, I can attest to the fact that he is a genuine soccer fan and, whether right or wrong, he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to cause an uproar.

Again, that's not to suggest I agree with him all of the time, or even on this matter about the perceived fan problem.

I just wanted to bring some balance to the discussion and stick up for him a bit - probably because of my "if-you-can't-say-anything-nice-don't-say it" upbringing.

John

s2cazz
04-05-2009, 11:58 PM
I just wanted to bring some balance to the discussion and stick up for him a bit - probably because of my "if-you-can't-say-anything-nice-don't-say it" upbringing.

John
To bad he wasn't brought up the same

FluSH
04-05-2009, 11:58 PM
John,

I hope you read the Edmonton Sun piece:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/2009/04/01/8959101-sun.html

What Cathal Kelly has done is nothing short of trash journalism, it is the equivalent of selling a product via sex exploitation. If he could get away with it, I am sure he would have plastered a set of Double D's just to sell his story.

Are we writting depth here? Or Trash? Shame on Cathal Kelly... this is seriously a new low.

flatpicker
04-06-2009, 12:03 AM
^ yes indeed FluSH!

Please! Can someone stop this wave of garbage journalism that is hitting the papers???!!!

FluSH
04-06-2009, 12:06 AM
Also,

This begs the question...

Who is sticking up for us? Are you John? if not who?

You have posted here on numerous occasions, we support your articles by using the hot links and we recommend them when ever we can...

who will stick up for us?

twistedchinaman
04-06-2009, 12:06 AM
John,

I hope you read the Edmonton Sun piece:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/2009/04/01/8959101-sun.html

What Cathal Kelly has done is nothing short of trash journalism, it is the equivalent of selling a product via sex exploitation. If he could get away with it, I am sure he would have plastered a set of Double D's just to sell his story.

Are we writting depth here? Or Trash? Shame on Cathal Kelly... this is seriously a new low.

I can't believe I am applauding the Edmonton Sun...but damn, well done, man. Straight from Alberta no less.

Shakes McQueen
04-06-2009, 12:16 AM
I can't believe I am applauding the Edmonton Sun...but damn, well done, man. Straight from Alberta no less.

Actually, it looks like the article was written by our very own jloome. :D

- Scott

FluSH
04-06-2009, 12:16 AM
Well thanks for coming out John...

I truly appreciate it.

johnmolinaro
04-06-2009, 12:17 AM
John,

I hope you read the Edmonton Sun piece:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/2009/04/01/8959101-sun.html

What Cathal Kelly has done is nothing short of trash journalism, it is the equivalent of selling a product via sex exploitation. If he could get away with it, I am sure he would have plastered a set of Double D's just to sell his story.

Are we writting depth here? Or Trash? Shame on Cathal Kelly... this is seriously a new low.

Yes, I read the Sun piece when it first came out. And I think the Sun writer handled it perfectly - talking about the media's reaction in general and how it dropped the ball with regards to this story

This was the way to do it. not, as I said before, calling one person out specifically and taking them to task because for me, that smacks of posturing and trying to build oneself up by tearing others down.

again, just my opinion. others will disagree, which is fine.

Cashcleaner
04-06-2009, 12:23 AM
it's not important who it was, and it doesn't really matter.

The purpose of my original post was just to let you know that from talking to Cathal personally and getting to know him, I can attest to the fact that he is a genuine soccer fan and, whether right or wrong, he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to cause an uproar.

Again, that's not to suggest I agree with him all of the time, or even on this matter about the perceived fan problem.

I just wanted to bring some balance to the discussion and stick up for him a bit - probably because of my "if-you-can't-say-anything-nice-don't-say it" upbringing.

John

Here's the thing: I believe you when you say Cathal is a soccer fan and a dedicated journalist. If you take his articles about Toronto FC out from his portfolio, you do get a reasonable opinion from him. But here's the thing - often when he write about TFC, there's really just the negatives he wants to talk about. Why do we get the short end of the stick with him all the time? I'm not looking to make friends, but I don't see the need to create enemies either.

Just once, I want him to stop dancing around the subject and just tell us what his problem is with us and our club. Don't pull any punches and don't try to obfuscate the issue. Just what is his problem with us?

twistedchinaman
04-06-2009, 12:25 AM
Actually, it looks like the article was written by our very own jloome. :D

- Scott

WTF! I didn't know jloome was in Alberta...damn. Now I feel silly. :D

twistedchinaman
04-06-2009, 12:27 AM
Here's the thing: I believe you when you say Cathal is a soccer fan and a dedicated journalist. If you take his articles about Toronto FC out from his portfolio, you do get a reasonable opinion from him. But here's the thing - often when he wants to write about TFC, there's really just the negatives he wants to talk about. Why do we get the short end of the stick with him all the time? I'm not looking to make friends, but I don't see the need to create enemies either.

Just once, I want him to stop dancing around the subject and just tell us what his problem is with us and our club. Don't pull any punches and don't try to obfuscate the issue. Just what is his problem with us?

+1.

What does he have against us, John? Does he have an unbridled hatred of red? Do tell us.

BRed
04-06-2009, 12:27 AM
I didn't see anything in your original post that would qualify as "defending" him. You just wrote that he is a good hearted individual but didn't argue for any of his points. If you could tell me what it is in his article that you would like to defend or that you can atleast explain what he was thinking, then that would be more useful.

SweetOwnGoal
04-06-2009, 12:32 AM
I don't buy the "can't call other reporters out" stuff. Print media has long employed media critics that do nothing but call out broadcast journalists. I've never been clear on why print journos should escape that kind of feedback (although maybe it would be nest left for a specialist).

The issue with Kelly's column today is three fold:

1) it's not newsworthy. Nothing happened at the game (even the sub-head says that), but yet he still wrote the story he missed out on by not going to Columbus (which was reported on by a great deal of people that were 600 km away at the time of the "incident"). It's as if he went in looking for a particular story and spent all game finding the evidence. I stand at the bottom of 113. I know crap gets thrown. I don't support it -- NO ONE IN ANY OF THE SGs DOES -- but I can honestly say that there was very, very little thrown Saturday.

2) He accuses the SGs of causing most of the problems -- something that goes against the very position of the team itself -- and does not provide anyone in any of the groups a chance to respond. Fair comment and all that, but it's pretty cowardly IMO.

3) It's borderline defamatory. I hope to hell that he doesn't really understand what a firm is because suggesting that the SGs are modelled on firms crosses the fair comment line. I'm pretty sure that if the Star's lawyers learn what the word means that a retraction will go up faster than us hooligans hit the beer stand at half time ;)

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 12:33 AM
Hey gang,

At the risk of incurring the collective wrath of the board, I thought I would post this message in defence of Cathal Kelly.

I should start out by stating I'm not friends with Cathal. We briefly chat and exchange pleasantries whenever we see each other at Toronto FC games, but that's about it.

I do, however, know Cathal well enough to tell you he is a passionate soccer fan and that he is not a rabid soccer hater, as he has been portrayed by a lot of people on this board.

I know some of you feel he deliberatly writes to provoke a negative reaction from readers, but I can tell you that he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to stir things up.

Do I always agree with what he writes? No. Often times I don't.

But even though I sometimes disagree with Cathal, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that he is a very good journalist and a talented writer. He has a lovely turn of phrase and has the ability to write with such descriptive prose, and I have developed a healthy respect for him.

This likely won't change anybody's view of him, and that's fine. I just wanted to put in a good word for the guy.

John Molinaro
CBCSports.ca

John I like you. But please tell us you lost some sort of bet to put up this load of crap.

Talented writer? How so? He is a tabloid journalist who doesn't research jack shit before submitting his garbage. He is inflammatory, negative and biased. He is following in the steps of many poor journalists in this city who can't do proper analysis so they resort to the last resort of mediocrity, appealing to the lowest common denominator.

In 2 years of covering TFC, there are but a handful of articles he has created that would merit even a modicum of respect from Toronto soccer fans.

I can respect what you tried to do in this post, but Cathal dug his own grave with soccer fans in this city. His air of superiority and arrogance did him in long ago. Starting with the "FC" thing which after claiming to let the fans decide, he decided to backpedal and continue using the expression he prefers. And it went downhill from there, most recently with his utterly ridiculous article on the events in Columbus and the game this weekend. You may pass him at TFC games and exchange greetings. If I passed him I'd tell him to stuff it.

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 12:36 AM
And if he was a genuine soccer fan as you say, he wouldn't go out of his way to damage what everyone involved with TFC is trying to create.

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 12:40 AM
I am convinced Catheter Kelly hacked into John's forum account and opened this thread in his favour. There is no way the reasonable John Molinaro that I have come to appreciate his coverage for CBC would stick his neck out like this for a snake like Catheter.

Daveisonfire
04-06-2009, 12:44 AM
I think John may have lost a bet

twistedchinaman
04-06-2009, 12:48 AM
^ That or he probably lost a game of beer pong with Catheter Kelly.

johnmolinaro
04-06-2009, 12:55 AM
I don't buy the "can't call other reporters out" stuff. Print media has long employed media critics that do nothing but call out broadcast journalists. I've never been clear on why print journos should escape that kind of feedback (although maybe it would be nest left for a specialist).

I didn't say can't. I said I wasn't comfortable doing it because, again, too often it disintegrates into a pissing contest and the issue at hand is overshadowed.

I think writers who do call out others by name often do it just to puff out their own chest and make themselves appear to be important and draw attention to themselves.

And in the case I cited before with regards to Cathal, I think it was a very cheap move

Again, I prefer the way the Sun writer handled it.

johnmolinaro
04-06-2009, 01:00 AM
^ That or he probably lost a game of beer pong with Catheter Kelly.

LOL! No, I didn't lose a bet, and Cathal didn't break into my account to post any of this. Chances are he would scold me for doing so and told me that I shouldn't even had bothered.

I just wanted to put in a good word for the guy. Again, probably my catholic school upbringing at work.

Hopefully, you won't hold it against me too much...

John

twistedchinaman
04-06-2009, 01:05 AM
LOL! No, I didn't lose a bet, and Cathal didn't break into my account to post any of this. Chances are he would scold me for doing so and told me that I shouldn't even had bothered.

I just wanted to put in a good word for the guy. Again, probably my catholic school upbringing at work.

Hopefully, you won't hold it against me too much...

John

Well at least you tried. But man, let's be honest, it was a rather weak attempt. The man has got a helluva lot to do to redeem himself -- and it looks like we'll see pigs fly before he gets there.

FluSH
04-06-2009, 01:12 AM
I wanted to post this on it's own thread... however, 3 threads on Cathal Kelly are 3 too many.



Dear Cathal Kelly,


I am not a soccer, baseball, or hockey superstar. I do not have a multi-million dollar contract, or have sponsoring deals. I have a family, with two kids under the age of 3, and a wife who is supportive of me. I've graduated out of University and I work 9-5 almost paycheque to paycheque with enough money to cover my mortgage. I am a proud Toronto FC supporter, and I am a proud member of the Red Patch Boys.

In these tiring times, I am often fearful of losing my job. When you make statements such as "They keep the beat for all 20,000 fans out on game day. They also cause most of the trouble" it does not reflect well on me and or my devotion for Toronto FC. You are not writing about A-Rod, or Plaxico Buress. You are writing about normal people. People you pass on the street or stand in line with at the grocery store. People who need to pay bills and feed their families. Your articles are impacting normal lives. I am looked at differently now. I am no longer part of that great group of supporters for Toronto FC, I am categorized now into a "hooligan".

All the work we've done in the past, the charity work, the countless hours many of us have spent to get this group started and organized have simply been forgotten. Just a few keystrokes on a newspaper. Was it all to sell a story? Will people now discriminate against us? I no longer feel like I can boast at parties that I am a Toronto FC supporter, or at work for that matter. I hope you are satisfied, because it is articles like yours that have made me feel ostracized.



-FluSH

MUFC_Niagara
04-06-2009, 01:56 AM
Hey gang,


At the risk of incurring the collective wrath of the board, I thought I would post this message in defence of Cathal Kelly.

I should start out by stating I'm not friends with Cathal. We briefly chat and exchange pleasantries whenever we see each other at Toronto FC games, but that's about it.

I do, however, know Cathal well enough to tell you he is a passionate soccer fan and that he is not a rabid soccer hater, as he has been portrayed by a lot of people on this board.

I know some of you feel he deliberatly writes to provoke a negative reaction from readers, but I can tell you that he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to stir things up.

Do I always agree with what he writes? No. Often times I don't.

But even though I sometimes disagree with Cathal, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that he is a very good journalist and a talented writer. He has a lovely turn of phrase and has the ability to write with such descriptive prose, and I have developed a healthy respect for him.

This likely won't change anybody's view of him, and that's fine. I just wanted to put in a good word for the guy.

John Molinaro
CBCSports.ca

John, my issue with Cathal, and with all of the media this week for that matter, is that it seems he doesn't do his research. In his latest piece on hooliganism and firms, he talks as if the terms "firm" and supporters group are "interchangable." They're not. A firm is a group dedicated to fighting. The fact that violence is wholly central to the match-day experience for these "supporters" has been championed for years by journalists and writers who have done a hell of a lot more research than Cathal. I think it's fairly evident that violence is NOT the centre point of the match day experience for the Red Patch Boys. Do your research before you loft us into this category, Cathal. I'm not a genius, but I spent 4 years in University studying modern european history including a full semester course devoted entirely to Football Violence. I'm not an expert but I am sure I know more than Cathal Kelly on this issue and what it has fueled in the past. If it irritates someone who has a semesters' worth of experience on the subject, how do you think it would make someone who has devoted their life to the subject feel to read this dribble?

Also, hooliganism has historically been intertwined within the milieu of an industrial working-class culture. Where is the industrial working class culture present in Toronto? Bay Street? Why doesn't Kelly make reference to this? Hoologanism is much more than just mindless violence. Doctors, barristors, accountants, and countless other professionals have all been associated with football firms in Europe. What is it that makes these people work a solid occupation and then feel the need to fight on the weekend? Adrenaline rush, mob mentality? There is so much more to "hooliganism" than branding a group of people in the south end of the stadium hooligans because some idiot decides to throw a cup. I can assure him that we are far away from traditional "hooliganism" and I can even give him solid reasons as to why the growth of the "firm" and european style hooligans will never be found in Canada. I'm not a reporter, or a professor, or even an expert. I'm just a guy who studied hard in school, read a lot of books and scholarly journals, and watched a lot of video on this one subject. Sadly, I don't think Cathal has done this and it shows in his article.

Now, if he wants to say the throwing of objects, the fighting, and the other violent acts are unaccpetable, I, and the rest of the Red Patch Boys, will stand shoulder to shoulder with him. Why are the Red Patch Boys being called out for behaviour that we are firmly against? We have a charter to deal with individuals who exhibit unacceptable behaviour. The stain that hooligans have left on football is a terrible violent past. I would venture to say that death between opposing "fans" has probably occured more in football than in any other sport. It is for this reason that we must be extremely careful as to how we use the word "hooligan," especially when using it in the context of describing problems that may occur at a football match.

Cathal Kelly, Gareth Wheeler, et. al. need to go to school, take some courses in Modern history, or better yet, get a library card and read about these thing before they start writing. Hooliganism is not a label for unruly soccer fans. It's a sociologic problem involving people who need the largest stage possible to be violent for whatever the reason may be. In Europe this theatre happens to be on a Saturday between the hours of 12pm and 5pm because football is the biggest stage available at the time. In North America, it happens at all kinds of sporting events, not just football. Will the media start an inventory on how many arrests take place at NFL games, and furthermore, take the extra responsible step of understanding why it happens and that these people are in trouble with law enforcement not just at the stadiums but on the highway, at the local bar, etc.?

The only result of all of the negative articles written about us this week has been to tarnish the name of a supporters group that condemns violence and has no violent history. In fact as a group, the Red Patch Bboys has raised over $30,000 for various charities, has been productive in the community sponsoring numerous children's soccer teams, and has provided a unique atmosphere to help support soccer in the city of Toronto. Where is the article highlighting those points?

Edit: Sorry for any spelling or grammar errors. It's 6:06am and I'm just finishing off a midnight shift!

ExiledRed
04-06-2009, 02:02 AM
I can tell you that he honestly believes what he writes



So he really is a prick, and not just pretending to be one. Thanks for clearing that up.



But even though I sometimes disagree with Cathal, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that he is a very good journalist and a talented writer. He has a lovely turn of phrase and has the ability to write with such descriptive prose, and I have developed a healthy respect for him.


This made me laugh, the guy is a hack and a bad one.

A hack with a lovely turn of phrase is still a hack.

VPjr
04-06-2009, 05:14 AM
I'm actually a fan of Cathal's work most of the time. On occasion, i email him when I think he's written a particularly good piece. In general i enjoy his coverage of soccer and his perspective on the sport I love. He did a fantastic job covering Euro 2008 for the Star.

However, the column he posted yesterday is not good work and I've let him know about it. I think he took some mean-spirited, irresponsible swipes at the supporter community. I also think its pretty gutless to essentially hide behind the quotes from some jackass cops (who likely don't know the first thing about real hooligan culture) to make the case that TFC supporters are "wannabe hooligans" who are "ticking time bombs".

If this is a column and you really believe this Cathal, have the balls to say that this is your opinion. If it's not a column, then the fact that you only present one (extremely biased) side of the story is a mark of a poor journalistic effort.

The only part of the column that is accurate is that:

a) yes, too many TFC fans are "over-refreshed" at games (I like to drink before the game too but I generally know when to cut myself off)

b) throwing anything but streamers is stupid and the supporter groups really need to become more serious than they already are about self policing when it comes to that sort of thing. I know that people frown on snitching on other supporters but people who throw cups and other shit on the field (even if it is just 1 cup) really need to be booted from the stadium.

However, too many drunk fans and thrown beer cups are not telltale signs of a hooligan problem or some kind of ticking time bomb. if it were, then the Cleveland Brown, Philadelphia Eagle and Buffalo Bills fans had better start addressing their hooligan problem too (and that's just to name the few NFL stadiums that I've been in...i have no doubt other NFL stadiums have similar problems).

I've challenged Cathal to actually try to get to know the people whom he smeared with that column. I doubt he'll do it but I've thrown the challenge out there.

Stephen Brunt is still, hands down, the best soccer writer in this country and he only writes, at most 5-6 columns a year about the sport. they are few and far between but they are always excellent.

Shakes McQueen
04-06-2009, 05:57 AM
I think the most annoying thing to come out of the Columbus event, is that people keep calling this "hooliganism". It isn't

A handful of drunks and idiots getting in a fight while leaving a soccer game isn't "hooliganism", any more than Cowboys and Bills fans getting into a fight at an NFL game is "hooliganism". Soccer "hooligans" are organized, and deliberate in their actions.

This continuing idea (especially from Columbus Few fans) that the RPB should be taking sweeping action about what happened in Columbus, is equally ignorant. It isn't at all clear that it was RPB's that were fighting. We aren't babysitters for all TFC fans, everywhere.

Idiot media demagogues like Cathal Kelly don't care about these important distinctions though.

@ VPjr - Yes, too many people at TFC games drink too much, but the same problem exists for virtually all sports venues. So while Cathal may have a small point, singling out the denizens at BMO Field every weekend, is just more targeted hate at TFC and it's fans, on his part.

- Scott

MUFC_Niagara
04-06-2009, 06:08 AM
I think the most annoying thing to come out of the Columbus event, is that people keep calling this "hooliganism". It isn't

A handful of drunks and idiots getting in a fight while leaving a soccer game isn't "hooliganism", any more than Cowboys and Bills fans getting into a fight at an NFL game is "hooliganism". Soccer "hooligans" are organized, and deliberate in their actions.

This continuing idea (especially from Columbus Few fans) that the RPB should be taking sweeping action about what happened in Columbus, is equally ignorant. It isn't at all clear that it was RPB's that were fighting. We aren't babysitters for all TFC fans, everywhere.

Idiot media demagogues like Cathal Kelly don't care about these important distinctions though.

@ VPjr - Yes, too many people at TFC games drink too much, but the same problem exists for virtually all sports venues. So while Cathal may have a small point, singling out the denizens at BMO Field every weekend, is just more targeted hate at TFC and it's fans, on his part.

- Scott

Exactly, Scott. See my post above.

VPjr
04-06-2009, 06:19 AM
@ VPjr - Yes, too many people at TFC games drink too much, but the same problem exists for virtually all sports venues. So while Cathal may have a small point, singling out the denizens at BMO Field every weekend, is just more targeted hate at TFC and it's fans, on his part.

- Scott

I most certainly agree with you but you would have to agree that the level of public drunkeness is far less apparent at games played by our "big 3" teams (Raps, Leafs, Jays).

Leafs and Raptors games don't really feature alot of public drunkeness (which is also likely whey they have to pipe in what passes for "atmosphere" at those games most of the time). The Jays games have had a few incidents due to drunk fans but those incidents are more of the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time, a Jays game is so tame its quasi morgue-like.

There is a fair bit of drinking at Argos games and there used to be a lot at Rock games (but I don't know if that is still the case) so it does happen in Toronto.

When it comes to soccer supporters, the difference, in my view, is that TFC fans are actually boisterous and I really believe (because I've heard it from so many people) that there is an element in the media that thinks TFC supporters are really only at the games to get drunk and swear in public. I know this to be false (they don't need to be drunk to swear in public...;))

nfitz
04-06-2009, 06:31 AM
Had Cathal's article appeared as a column, or even as an editorial, then perhaps one could live with it.

But what galls me, is that appeared in a prominent at the top of the first page of the Toronto Star as a news article. And that's why there is no defending it. The article is factually wrong and misleading.

Shakes McQueen
04-06-2009, 06:36 AM
I most certainly agree with you but you would have to agree that the level of public drunkeness is far less apparent at games played by our "big 3" teams (Raps, Leafs, Jays).

I was at the Blue Jays home opener last season, and there were no less than five separate fights, two occasions of girls flashing the crowd, one guy who got tossed for throwing up on someone else, and two people who went streaking on the field together. And a partridge in a pear tree.

I have no idea what the statistics are, of public drunkenness at Toronto's various sporting venues. But I've been to lots of TFC games, and never seen all of the above, haha.

But more importantly, basing an article in a major media outlet on anecdotal "hunches" you have, unsubstantiated by any actual research, is journalistic malpractice, in my opinion.

The Argonauts have lost their liquor license for a couple of games this season, due to repeated infractions last season. How many times has BMO been shut down for liquor license violations?

TFC fans are getting an unjustified bad rap, from idiots like Cathal Kelly

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
04-06-2009, 06:37 AM
Exactly, Scott. See my post above.

Sorry man, haha. Never actually read your post!

- Scott

Mikey
04-06-2009, 06:37 AM
Hey gang,

At the risk of incurring the collective wrath of the board, I thought I would post this message in defence of Cathal Kelly.

I should start out by stating I'm not friends with Cathal. We briefly chat and exchange pleasantries whenever we see each other at Toronto FC games, but that's about it.

I do, however, know Cathal well enough to tell you he is a passionate soccer fan and that he is not a rabid soccer hater, as he has been portrayed by a lot of people on this board.

I know some of you feel he deliberatly writes to provoke a negative reaction from readers, but I can tell you that he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to stir things up.

Do I always agree with what he writes? No. Often times I don't.

But even though I sometimes disagree with Cathal, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that he is a very good journalist and a talented writer. He has a lovely turn of phrase and has the ability to write with such descriptive prose, and I have developed a healthy respect for him.

This likely won't change anybody's view of him, and that's fine. I just wanted to put in a good word for the guy.

John Molinaro
CBCSports.ca

Sorry John, but either Catheter's article is badly researched or has deliberate misinfromation for sensationalism. either way, that makes for a piss poor reporter.

MG42
04-06-2009, 06:58 AM
This whole thread is rather strange...-10 points for Molinaro :lol:

Jack
04-06-2009, 07:01 AM
I'd like to actually hear from Cathal if he's going to talk about Red Patch Boys. It's funny how things are printed like this without speaking to those involved.

I know he probably doesn't like us very much as he gets slammed a lot on our message board, but all the same, if he would take the time to contact us and really see what we're about, then perhaps he would realize just how far off the mark he is with what he's writing.

FluSH's comments above ring true, uninformed articles like his and Gareth Wheeler's are indeed affecting lives in a negative manner without just cause.

King Jeff
04-06-2009, 07:05 AM
Hey gang,

But even though I sometimes disagree with Cathal, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that he is a very good journalist and a talented writer. He has a lovely turn of phrase and has the ability to write with such descriptive prose...


The same could be said for Bill Archer.

As has been mentioned ad nauseum in this thread, the issue with Kelly's writing is that he makes totally untrue statements in his columns and states them as fact. I, for one, was not particularly pleased to read his comments that there have been problems with racism at TFC games, when that appears to be totally untrue.

Unlike some people here, I don't think Kelly has any sort of vendetta against the club or its fans; I just think that this was a shoddy piece of journalism and a rather lame attempt to kick us when we're already down.

sully
04-06-2009, 07:07 AM
Hey gang,

but I can tell you that he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to stir things up.

But even though I sometimes disagree with Cathal, that doesn't prevent me from recognizing that he is a very good journalist and a talented writer.

John Molinaro
CBCSports.ca

I just saw this.... shouldn't a good journalist be balanced and thoughtful John? That article was only to stir things up...is there any other way of seeing it?

Shakes McQueen
04-06-2009, 07:07 AM
I know he probably doesn't like us very much as he gets slammed a lot on our message board,

Yes, but it wasn't us that "shot first", so to speak. He decided to be a shitty, biased, snarky little pissant to us, long before we decided to hate him.

So if he's even remotely interested in learning the truth of the stuff he's been libelous about for the last couple of years, it's up to him to reach out to us.

I know you probably don't disagree with this, but I wanted to say it anyway, haha.

- Scott

Jack
04-06-2009, 07:13 AM
Yes, but it wasn't us that "shot first", so to speak. He decided to be a shitty, biased, snarky little pissant to us, long before we decided to hate him.

So if he's even remotely interested in learning the truth of the stuff he's been libelous about for the last couple of years, it's up to him to reach out to us.

I know you probably don't disagree with this, but I wanted to say it anyway, haha.

- Scott
I do agree with you, Scott.

MG42
04-06-2009, 07:18 AM
Jack, can you check to see if Cathal has broken into Johns account?

ensco
04-06-2009, 07:41 AM
John, how much of Cathal's slant is being driven by the Star's editors?

What galled me more than anything was the story placement - page A1 above the fold. TFC have never been page 1 before in its history and on the day that DeRo returns and a superstar player like Freddy Ljungberg is dazzling on the pitch....- and the team gets there for this? A story that could have run any day, anywhere in the paper?

tfc007
04-06-2009, 07:41 AM
CATHAL"cathy" KELLY BETTER HOPE HE NEVER RUNS INTO ME!

Mark in Ottawa
04-06-2009, 07:56 AM
Thanks John for your take on all of this.

Personally I just got tired of reading all of the negativity in CK's writing with little of it being "constructive criticism". As a result I just don't read his stuff anymore. If anyone asks I point them toward Ben Knight and Nigel Reed who are not afraid to write less than flattering reports but in a researched and balanced way.

Reminds me of a quote from an acquintance who has been a sports writer for a very long time...
"The middle road is death... they have to love you or hate you for one reason or another. If they don't care you are dead as a sports reporter.

They have to respect that your opinion is well thought out and consistent based on what you know. Otherwise you are just writing like you belong in the National Enquirer"

Steve
04-06-2009, 08:01 AM
John, I understand what you're trying to do here, and I don't think any less of you for it. You like Cathal Kelly, you like TFC supporters, it puts you in a tough position when one of your "friends" talks badly about the other. Personally, I think Cathal is a gifted writer, I've just never understood why he decided to take such a negative line on TFC from the get-go. If I recall correctly, in the first season, he wrote an entire piece about how stupid it was that people couldn't use umbrellas at a game (a little disconnected from the realities of stadium sightlines perhaps?).

What I would suggest, John, is that you make an attempt to defend TFC supporters to Cathal Kelly as you've tried to defend him to us (if you haven't already). As Jack said, get him to call some of the supporter's groups leaders (for an honest exchange and not just looking for quotes for another attack piece). Maybe Kelly is a fan of the sport, but the supporters' groups make him nervous. Maybe he believes the groups will devolve into something that will ruin the sport and what he considers our good image. I can understand that (not that I think he has a point, but I can understand someone being nervous about such things). Maybe a genuine meeting with the people he is afraid of will help to settle those concerns, and let him see that the supporters groups are really just there for fun (and that internet message boards are not always reality).

alexintoronto
04-06-2009, 08:06 AM
Thank God for Stephen Brunt. He should teach a class. All those hack douchebags should take it.

KdotOdot
04-06-2009, 08:14 AM
Man, Fuck Cathy Kelly. That bitch owes me a pack of cigarettes last time she was hoein up at Coffee Time. I mean this girl is out of control, her pops was an ex con so she had that low self esteem since her mom left the house. I mean Cathy was in EVERY single car in the parking lot giving out her brand of popularity if you catch my drift.

How you guys know Cathy anyway.....what...Cathal...who the fuck is Cathal, I thought we were talking about Cathy.

MisterMacphisto
04-06-2009, 08:16 AM
as I said before, calling one person out specifically and taking them to task because for me, that smacks of posturing and trying to build oneself up by tearing others down.


Sorry, I'm confused... Are you talking about Cathal calling out RPB and taking them to tasks for things they weren't even responsible for? I agree, it really smacks of posturing and trying to build oneself up by tearing down others. :rolleyes:

koryo
04-06-2009, 08:28 AM
John, I respect your stance but as far as I'm concerned Kelly made his bed and he's going to have to lie in it.

Fort York Redcoat
04-06-2009, 08:32 AM
Good for you John. Sticking your neck out for a friend but this doesn't do anything for us or him. He clearly doesn't want or need accountability for his writing style. You have the stones to post regular amongst the most critical of rowdies. I don't have to agree with you but I can respect the fact you will answer for work you do. Your vouching for him personally just makes me more critical of him professionally.

Pookie
04-06-2009, 09:03 AM
While he may be a "fan" and devote enthusiast, the article(s) written was done after making a choice.

As a journalist, one could either seek to share the truth about alleged incidents or jump on the "fear" bandwagon that seems to be the fashionable thing to do... that the city will soon become a haven for centuries old ethnic conflicts masquerading as soccer violence.

While there are a few fans that could do without tickets for the remainder of the season (the idiot that tossed a full beer that landed at the feet of our substitutes in the 2nd half on the weekend would be on my list), the reality is that BMO is a wonderful place to go (except of course for the services).

My kids have been to every sporting event under the sun. From lacrosse to hockey to basketball to soccer, to a person, they find BMO the most exciting.

My son (8) now actually talks about soccer in the same way that he talks about the NHL. He believes it is an option for him if he works hard.

That's in part thanks to the players. We've found the players to be the most accessible and friendly from all sports. He's met Leafs. He has met local OHL players. The ones he remembers are players like Brennan, Ricketts and Wynne who took the time to chat with him during the various pub crawls.

That's in part thanks to the fans. He knows (most of) the chants. He wants to walk down with the RPBs prior to the game. He feels like he belongs.

Yeah, we've heard swearing. We've also heard it from a fan of the Brampton Battalion who was in the seat behind us. That's not unique to soccer.

We have seen fans surround the visiting team's OHL bus and taunt the players. We were at the Jays Opener in 2008 when the upper deck became a boxing ring. We've been at a Leafs vs Sens game in which ushers were called to break up a pushing match a few rows in front of us. We've seen parents ejected from his Major Tykes hockey game.

We have never seen a fight at BMO.

I gave him a choice this weekend. Did he want to see the Leafs and Sens or see TFC vs Dallas. Without hesitating, he wanted to go to BMO.

I am a responsible parent. I would not place my child in harm's way. I feel 100% confident in my decision to bring him to games.

There's your truth.

johnmolinaro
04-06-2009, 09:04 AM
Good for you John. Sticking your neck out for a friend but this doesn't do anything for us or him. He clearly doesn't want or need accountability for his writing style. You have the stones to post regular amongst the most critical of rowdies. I don't have to agree with you but I can respect the fact you will answer for work you do. Your vouching for him personally just makes me more critical of him professionally.

I wouldn't call Cathal a friend, he's an acquaintance.

It wasn't my goal to convince any of you that he's a good guy, only to communicate that he is a genuine soccer fan and not some rabid anti-soccer hater.

And I didn't mean to suggest you guys are wrong in your criticism of him.

Again, I just wanted to put in a good word for him.

alexintoronto
04-06-2009, 09:13 AM
I wouldn't call Cathal a friend

You are a very sensible man.

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 09:20 AM
Yes, but it wasn't us that "shot first", so to speak. He decided to be a shitty, biased, snarky little pissant to us, long before we decided to hate him.

So if he's even remotely interested in learning the truth of the stuff he's been libelous about for the last couple of years, it's up to him to reach out to us.

I know you probably don't disagree with this, but I wanted to say it anyway, haha.

- Scott

As John J Rambo once said...."they drew first blood". :)

(I just watched the movie again for the umpteenth time...I love it.)

Parkdale
04-06-2009, 09:28 AM
It wasn't my goal to convince any of you that he's a good guy, only to communicate that he is a genuine soccer fan and not some rabid anti-soccer hater.


clearly he doesn't hate soccer, but he certainly
goes out of his way to show his dislike of:

TFC (which he calls 'The FC')
BMO Field (which he just recently called the Nation Exhibition field)
The MLS (which he constantly knocks)
and the supporters of TFC (who he's painting with really broad stokes)

Bluenose13
04-06-2009, 09:41 AM
I think he deserves his own song........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTN3h-b9nU

BFin
04-06-2009, 09:43 AM
This is a late April fools joke isn't it?

greatwhitenorf
04-06-2009, 10:01 AM
An objective reporter or a columnist with a balanced perspective doesn't pull the dirty tricks Kelly has consistently displayed in his time covering soccer.

A proper journalist wouldn't resort to writing lame critiques of one of the world's most accomplished players then taking unwarranted cheap shots at his wife the way Kelly has done many times with David Beckham. And we're talking now about a player who has had his fair share of ups and downs but really hasn't been nearly enough of a factor in soccer affairs in this city to warrant Kelly's on-going smarmy comments.

If this were a black player being subject to the same comments by a white writer, it would smack of racism. Shows how weak and uninformed Kelly's editorial supervision is.

Criticism is fine when warranted, but this is a fledgling team that has hardly put a foot wrong in its infancy. Sure, it's not the best league in the world and they're not the best team in the league.

Anyone who knows soccer knows that. Anyone who knows soccer knows this team and this league won't get better unless it's supported. It's getting that support. Those of us who watch it know there'll be frustrating moments. It only makes those redeeming moments that much sweeter.

Its success is not only measured in the stands but the ripple effect it's created with top owners bidding for MLS teams in other Canadian cities.

Stroll the sidelines at any minor soccer field across the GTA and environs and you'll find kids and parents really excited about what TFC offer for the future. There's huge interest in the team and league with discussions among parents on practice nights becoming as passionate and detailed as any Premier League or Serie A debate.

And many people I meet haven't even bothered putting their names onto the season's tickets waiting list because they're pre-occupied with family life and kids sports. Offer them tickets and the reaction from kids is one of leaping, bounding joy. Dads shake your hand gratefully. Moms give you those smiles that make you blush.

But all the Toronto Star can do with soccer is try to pull the proverbial wings off the fly. Kelly may have written the stories, but he doesn't write the headlines and he doesn't determine the placement of the story within the paper. If this is how the Star views proper soccer coverage on opening day, it's clear that soccer-bashing has become a corporate policy at the Star.

On fan forums in more mature soccer environments, fans are clearly advised to focus on issues and refrain from making criticisms personal. Play the ball, not the man. The Star and Cathal Kelly don't play that way. So we don't either.

Mike Simpson presides over the sour, dour domain that is the Star sports section. Fred Kuntz is the editor in chief. These are the people mainly responsible for this, the ones who are apparently unaware that sporting culture in their city has changed dramatically, changed in ways they seem incapable of perceiving.

Toronto is a soccer city. Always has been. We've just been waiting for the rest of Canada and North America to catch up. Other cities sports cultures - in Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton - are moving the same way. The Star has an opportunity to lead in informing us about that change, to engage the sort of diverse yet mainstream audience that would only help their readership grow, something every newspaper needs to survive turbulent times.

Instead, they display their very real professional shortcomings and repel soccer readers with this sort of pathetic coverage.

Poor Cathal. Must really suck to love a game so much and, in such a short period of time, have everyone who shares that love of the game despise and detest everything you write.

Norman Da Costa, you are very much missed.

FluSH
04-06-2009, 10:05 AM
^^^
I just cried...

alexintoronto
04-06-2009, 10:14 AM
I can understand the reluctance - like the police, there does seem to be a belief that you should protect your own. I work in a profession where if I don't call someone out on something that they do that is wrong, I become as liable as they are ... so I tend to forget that many don't work in regulated professions.


it's not important who it was, and it doesn't really matter.

The purpose of my original post was just to let you know that from talking to Cathal personally and getting to know him, I can attest to the fact that he is a genuine soccer fan and, whether right or wrong, he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to cause an uproar.

Again, that's not to suggest I agree with him all of the time, or even on this matter about the perceived fan problem.

I just wanted to bring some balance to the discussion and stick up for him a bit - probably because of my "if-you-can't-say-anything-nice-don't-say it" upbringing.

John


Who called Kelly out? I must have missed it. Can anyone share a link?

JDG
04-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Who called Kelly out? I must have missed it. Can anyone share a link?


It's been done, by varying degrees, by a few.

alexintoronto
04-06-2009, 10:25 AM
I gathered that.

Does anyone have alink to the article john is referring to?

andyc
04-06-2009, 10:25 AM
An objective reporter or a columnist with a balanced perspective doesn't pull the dirty tricks Kelly has consistently displayed in his time covering soccer.

...

On fan forums in more mature soccer environments, fans are clearly advised to focus on issues and refrain from making criticisms personal. Play the ball, not the man. The Star and Cathal Kelly don't play that way. So we don't either.

Mike Simpson presides over the sour, dour domain that is the Star sports section. Fred Kuntz is the editor in chief. These are the people mainly responsible for this, the ones who are apparently unaware that sporting culture in their city has changed dramatically, changed in ways they seem incapable of perceiving.

Toronto is a soccer city. Always has been. We've just been waiting for the rest of Canada and North America to catch up. Other cities sports cultures - in Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton - are moving the same way. The Star has an opportunity to lead in informing us about that change, to engage the sort of diverse yet mainstream audience that would only help their readership grow, something every newspaper needs to survive turbulent times.

Instead, they display their very real professional shortcomings and repel soccer readers with this sort of pathetic coverage.

Poor Cathal. Must really suck to love a game so much and, in such a short period of time, have everyone who shares that love of the game despise and detest everything you write.

Norman Da Costa, you are very much missed.

Great post!!! I agree completely....

ensco
04-06-2009, 10:29 AM
Here's what is missing John. It's been missing from the coverage of virtually every journalist.

Forget the swearing, and the odd dustup. Big deal. As all have discussed ad nauseam, it happens everywhere, in every sport.

Everyone here acknowledges that there is a problem specific to TFC: a very few lunkheads are hiding in a big crowd and doing stuff 99% of the people in the supporters groups oppose (principally throwing things). It's not a huge problem, it's got nothing to do with "hooliganism". The throwing of stuff is worse on the road trips, but it does occur at BMO.

So how do we fix that? We develop the right relationship with the team, the police, and the security people - without that we can't really help with the policing. You saw it Saturday - a guy threw a beer on the field, security was in there within 30 seconds tossing whoever did it. Fans helped point the guy out.

By describing all TFC supporters as "wannabe hooligans", which is what Kelly has done, he is harming the group's ability to work constructively with the police, and security.

By only quoting cops who don't "get the joke", when many of them do, he's making the police look bad to the TFC supporters, again making it harder to work together.

By glorifying something we all oppose, Kelly is actively encouraging more lunkheads/criminals, whose only interest is busting heads, to come down to BMO or on a road trip, to rumble.

The Star is causing and encouraging public disorder with its reporting.

I don't think today was the day to stand by your good acquaintance. My mother-in-law, a lifelong Star reader, now believes that TFC fans are a menace. Kelly and the Star's editors have really wounded the cause of professional soccer in Canada.

Whoop
04-06-2009, 10:33 AM
I know Stephen Brunt called out Cathal on the FAN a couple of weeks ago when Cathal suggested that with Beckham leaving MLS, MLS is going to fold. Cathal said that that the KC franchise was in trouble, forgetting that KC is in the process of getting a new stadium. He was spewing stupid silly stuff that even a semi-educated fan of the MLS would know is not true.

TheDude
04-06-2009, 10:37 AM
Fred Kuntz is the editor in chief.

you've gotta be shitting me, dude. talk about horrible luck in the surname department. that's worse than a dude i know who's last name is "seeman"!

J .
04-06-2009, 10:44 AM
Cathal has us talking about him and reading his shit articles.

He is a douche bag, but one that drives readership because we hate him. Tough to not read when you and your mates are being ripped on in the paper. Cathal is lost and the only people who believe him are people that don't follow soccer or are biased against it.

What would be nice is if there was tactical discussions or some form of intelligent writing on TFC instead of hate articles. Maybe he writes well, but he is not a journalist.

This snake is giving people a poisoned apple of knowledge with his articles that is why people hate him.

Shaughno
04-06-2009, 10:44 AM
you've gotta be shitting me, dude. talk about horrible luck in the surname department. that's worse than a dude i know who's last name is "seeman"!


I know a Seaman. :lol: Actually in Kitchener, there is a pretty big manufacturing company called.... KUNTZ seriously.

http://www.kuntz.com/Images/kei_logo_new2.gif (http://www.kuntz.com/index.cfm)

Fort York Redcoat
04-06-2009, 10:51 AM
John is on here regularly and is accountable for his work. The fact he backs Kelly personally just makes us think less of him professionally.

nfitz
04-06-2009, 11:22 AM
John is on here regularly and is accountable for his work. The fact he backs Kelly personally just makes us think less of him professionally.I don't think that's a fair comment. He's made it clear he isn't supporting Kelly's position. He was simply pointing out that Kelly doesn't hate soccer. It would have been much easier for John to simply avoid the whole thread.

Heathen
04-06-2009, 11:24 AM
I don't think that's a fair comment. He's made it clear he isn't supporting Kelly's position. He was simply pointing out that Kelly doesn't hate soccer. It would have been much easier for John to simply avoid the whole thread.

Kelly doesn't hate soccer he hates the MLS, last summer he was creaming his pants cavorting around Austria and Switzerland for the Euros

Marc"2L"
04-06-2009, 11:34 AM
So he's a eurosnob? Great. That settles it.

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 11:36 AM
Pretty much. I can't remember one good thing he has said about MLS. And he definitely does not like TFC fans. The only articles I remember from him that weren't down on soccer all concentrated on the International or European game. This is not the guy to be covering TFC.

Fort York Redcoat
04-06-2009, 11:37 AM
I don't think that's a fair comment. He's made it clear he isn't supporting Kelly's position. He was simply pointing out that Kelly doesn't hate soccer. It would have been much easier for John to simply avoid the whole thread.


Whoooooooooooooooaaaaaaaah!!!!

Think less of Kelly.

Not of John.

smeghead
04-06-2009, 12:11 PM
Shit. Now the guys at work are joking with me that im part of the hooligan redpatch boys. Thanks alot Kelly. FUck you Catheter.

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 12:12 PM
My final word on this John.

In an environment were fans have been looking forward to TFC's new season and where the team started off so well only to disappoint so poorly on Saturday, there were so many OTHER stories Cathal could have chosen to write.

Did he talk about the product on the pitch?

No.

Did he write about Ljundberg's impact and how TFC should look at doing the same?

No.

He chose to write about an issue that a) was not even real news b) was so old it makes him look doubly inept by being the last on board c) could have been written about any fans in any sport, hardly providing any insight into the soccer scene in Toronto.

You start this thread in defence of Cathal but provide no real reason for us to stop hating the douchebag other than your reassurance he does not hate football. Well, evidence points to the contrary...at least with regards to North American football.

As someone suggested to you, if you are going to defend anyone, perhaps making Catheter realize the error of his ways and his unfair treatment of supporters would be a good start. Otherwise, I recommend you stay away from the Catheter issue lest any damage to your own reputation result due to your efforts in trying to protect someone who obviously does not want any defending.

Parkdale
04-06-2009, 12:20 PM
there was a great article by Cathal about shopping for the perfect speedo a few years back in the 'Style' section of the Star.

Then he wrote an article about having a hammock in the backyard as a replacement for the cottage.

It's all been downhill since then.


Please stick with what you know. Hammocks and banana hammocks.

Hitcho
04-06-2009, 12:31 PM
John Molinaro - nice of you to stick up for a fellow scribe, but noticeable that you didn't really defend the piece he had written.

It was horribly skewed and completely unfair in its portrayal of TFC fans and RPBs in particular. Even when he threw out the low numbers of incidents/ejections he did it grudgingly and quickly followed it up with unfounded inflammatory comments like "there's a bomb waiting to go off" (ascribed to some unknown cop with no justification at all given in support of the comment by the way) in a desperate attempt to make it seem like there's big trouble when in fact there's actually very little.

and what's with castigating the pre-game marches? I've seen children taking part in those and loving it. it's good, clean, harmless fun. there's nothing threatening about it in any way and people i have passed on the marches are usually excited and interested to see it. the marches are not boisterous or seething with menace. there's no abuse being thrown out along the way, or damage done to people or property. the marches are a unique and fun facet of TFC games, and should be praised and encouraged, not degraded unfairly for no good reason.

so whatever you may think of Cathal personally, the fact is he is currently spewing out unfounded and unfair garbage about TFC fans at the moment, and at a time when the league is growing and in need of positive exposure for the way it is developing. he should be focussing on the product, and if he really can't keep his eye off the fans, then how about painting a fair picture of the exciting and family friendly buzz that is generated throughout BMO Field on match days? Sure, make a reference to any unsavoury incidents that are genuine and fair, but make sure it is reflected only in passing, which is all it is (if anything) on game days.

until he takes the hate visor off, no-one on here is going to soften towards him and, frankly, he deserves all the negative reaction he gets because like it or not he is smearing us personally. i now have to defend myself and fellow fans to work colleagues who read the crap he and others print. i work at a law firm, i have a young family and i have NEVER caused any trouble at a football game, ever, and i sit in the south end. so why should he be able to paint us all with his brush of hatred?

T_Mizz
04-06-2009, 12:32 PM
The part of the article that really pisses me off is when he starts taking shots at Joe's because we like to drink there before the game. In many respects this is so much better than in the states at an NFL game where, honest to God I have witnessed it, people line up in their cars at 6 in the morning drinking, to get into the parking lot at 8 to start drinking more heavily, eventually resulting in people's alcohol consumption being measured in cases not bottles. This is a really big problem but it is completely legal, or presented as such, and it is treated as part of the gameday experience but when we gather for a few brews, at a place where they serve alcohol responsibly (unlike drinking in a parking lot with no smartserve trained servers) we're the problem.

james
04-06-2009, 04:33 PM
well whats the difference between kelly and any other new papper writer who has anything negative to say about TFC? Everytime someone says somethin bad many of you guys get so defensive. Its been a few years now, i think its about time you learn to just ignore or stop readding news papper writters if you dont like to here anything negative about TFC.

Hitcho
04-06-2009, 04:58 PM
^ i see where you are coming from james, and if the impact just stopped with us then I'd agree. but i now have people at work coming up to me making comments about the negative press they have read on TFC fans, and someone actually asked me if it was safe to take their kids to a game.

now i can live with this, as you say it doesn't bother me that much. but the bigger problem is that the huge interest that the famous crowd atmosphere generated among torontonians during seasons 1 and 2 is now being turned into something sinister and infamous in the minds of all those people who haven't actually been to a game yet.

that's why i think it's important to keep trying to set the record straight. it's not like everyone knows the truth - in GTA terms, only a few people know the truth and a couple of million people are starting to read lies and crap which might turn them away from the game before they have even got into it. that's dangerous from a long term growth perspective, especially when you consider the youth interest level we might lose from parents with misinformed ideas.

besides which, it's not like these guys are just telling a few of their mates down the pub. they are smearing this crap nationwide in some cases, and that pisses me off - why should we have to put up with it?

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 05:02 PM
Is it safe to bring kids to the game? Oh gawd...has ANYTHING ever happened to merit this worry?

This is the stupidity you are causing Catheter...lick my salty balls you hack.

Hitcho
04-06-2009, 05:05 PM
^ Yeah I know, I laughed when they asked me, but then realised they were being serious. think about it though - you're interested in getting tickets for your 7 year old kids to go to a game with you, then you read all about these "hooligans" throwing bottles at BMO Field, being drunk, abusive and rowdy and getting arrested on road trips. Would you just take them along without questioning things first? I know I'd be wary unless I could confirm it was actually safer than that. Even then, mud sticks.

Blizzard
04-06-2009, 05:06 PM
To be honest, I've never felt comfortable about calling out one of my media colleagues in print because too often it disintegrates into a pissing contest.

Other writers don't have the same reservations as I do and I know of one who recently called out Cathal, but I believe it's a cheap way to produce news copy and it smacks of grandstanding and hubris.

Just my view, though.

You shouldn't call out colleagues anyway. It's not right.

You should have heard Mike Toth ripping away at PJ Stock last week. It actually made Toth sound jealous.

As close as i can recall, he said "I've been doing television sports for 19 years and can do the job far better than him" or something to that effect.

Very shabby.

... and btw, Cathal's allegation of racism was shameful and must be withdrawn. If he'd do his research, he'd know that the racism incident was in Columbus and had nothing to do with TFC in any way whatsover.

B

CretanBull
04-06-2009, 05:17 PM
... and btw, Cathal's allegation of racism was shameful and must be withdrawn. If he'd do his research, he'd know that the racism incident was in Columbus and had nothing to do with TFC in any way whatsover.


He should know that just by looking at us, we're very Canadian in our diverse make-up. But once again, the facts didn't support his opinion so he chose to igore them.

I mean really, a racist in our group? Life must be hell for that guy!

spezz44
04-06-2009, 05:19 PM
Shaughno that kuntz place is really close to mf gf's place, i laugh every time i see it.

Hitcho
04-06-2009, 05:22 PM
He should know that just by looking at us, we're very Canadian in our diverse make-up. But once again, the facts didn't support his opinion so he chose to igore them.

I mean really, a racist in our group? Life must be hell for that guy!

heh - i know, the whole concept is so stupid. Look at our roster for starters. then look at the food menu for BMO Field. then take a look at our fan base. it's about as diverse a set up as you're likely to find anywhere in the world! what a prick.

peterb89
04-06-2009, 05:42 PM
Cathal's writings inspired my only letter to the editor I've ever written. His articles on Canadian soccer never offer any insight or inside acces you thing a writer from a paper the size of the Toronto Star would have at it's disposal. It appears that he overhears a few things on talk Radio glances the soccer boards and shoots his mouth off. Soccer could use someone in the media with a edge that calls out the powers that be, unfortunately that would require homework that Cathal does not put into his work. Not sure if any of the edditors at the Toronto Star follow the Soccer World I imagine if they did most of his articles would of bin thrown in the bin. Been meening to sign up to this board for a while. Keep up the good work of giving great support to TFC in Toronto and in Columbus. p.s. Sometimes soccer fans on these boards can sound as dumb and ignorant as hockey fans if you do concern selves a little less with the idiots you might give them a smaller soapbox.

MUFC MACHEDA FAN CLUB

sully
04-06-2009, 05:48 PM
Cathal's writings inspired my only letter to the editor I've ever written.
MUFC MACHEDA FAN CLUB

what's the editor's contact details? I'm still pissed about this ignoramous portraying me the way he did and want to write a letter myself. cheers..

Mars
04-06-2009, 05:51 PM
I was talking to a coworker of mine, who split season tickets with some of the guys at work at the very top of section 107, about his first game that he'll be going to this coming weekend. He said he's decided to sell his seats. Originally he'd planned on taking his boy (under 5), but now he thinks it would be an inappropriate environment to take his son, what with the violence and language and all.

I tried to convince him otherwise by offering that I sit in the South Section and this whole controversy is overblown. He gave me a 'you're one of those?' looks.

To echo Flush's comment a few pages back, this impacts regular people. This guy wont go because of the perception built up by the media. Instead, he'll find someone who is attracted by that idea (self-fulfilled prophecy?)

peterb89
04-06-2009, 05:51 PM
Cathal's writings inspired my only letter to the editor I've ever written. His articles on Canadian soccer never offer any insight or inside acces you thing a writer from a paper the size of the Toronto Star would have at it's disposal. It appears that he overhears a few things on talk Radio glances the soccer boards and shoots his mouth off. Soccer could use someone in the media with a edge that calls out the powers that be, unfortunately that would require homework that Cathal does not put into his work. Not sure if any of the edditors at the Toronto Star follow the Soccer World I imagine if they did most of his articles would of bin thrown in the bin. Been meening to sign up to this board for a while. Keep up the good work of giving great support to TFC in Toronto and in Columbus. p.s. Sometimes soccer fans on these boards can sound as dumb and ignorant as hockey fans if you do concern selves a little less with the idiots you might give them a smaller soapbox.

MUFC MACHEDA FAN CLUB

spezz44
04-06-2009, 05:56 PM
thats really dissapointing to here mars, i took my 5 and 7 year old cousins last year, and they had the time of their lives, its really to bad this stuff keeps comin up.

sully
04-06-2009, 05:58 PM
To echo Flush's comment a few pages back, this impacts regular people. This guy wont go because of the perception built up by the media. Instead, he'll find someone who is attracted by that idea (self-fulfilled prophecy?)

Agreed..this sort of manfactured perception will attract those kinds of people that are attracted by the idea of violence, and could actually make happen is the long-term, what C. Kelly imagines could become a reality, in fact an actual future reality...

Red CB Toronto
04-06-2009, 06:03 PM
If you do not like what a guy writes, don't read it, it is nothing to lose any sleep over, no one is forcing anyone to read a specific writer, talk about who you like, not those you don't.

Time and effort should be directed towards people like Ben Knight, Ben Rycroft, Duane Rollins, writers who are passionate about the sport and the writing/talking expresses this to the max. extent.

sully
04-06-2009, 06:06 PM
If you do not like what a guy writes, don't read it, it is nothing to lose any sleep over, no one is forcing anyone to read a specific writer, talk about who you like, not those you don't.

Time and effort should be directed towards people like Ben Knight, Ben Rycroft, Duane Rollins, writers who are passionate about the sport and the writing/talking expresses this to the max. extent.

yes, but the problem is that lots of people read what Kelly writes and it impacts on how we are viewed and how TFC are viewed in the wider public...I don't want to be labelled a violent yob and I don't want parents afraid to take there children to a game..

alexintoronto
04-06-2009, 06:10 PM
To the people in the business -

When the editor gets these letters of complaint is he going to:
A. Read the letters and talk to Kelly about being more responsible as a journalist.
or
B. Read the letters and congratulate Kelly on creating a stir and getting more hits on his article.

Blizzard
04-06-2009, 06:11 PM
He should know that just by looking at us, we're very Canadian in our diverse make-up. But once again, the facts didn't support his opinion so he chose to igore them.

I mean really, a racist in our group? Life must be hell for that guy!

I'd have to hate myself. I'm half Japanese (but all Canadian)! :canada:

TERSIGNI
04-06-2009, 06:15 PM
Hi John; I was a reporter in the media for 12 years. The fans on this board are correct. Your buddy owes TFC fans an apology. I have had several people tell me they are now afraid to go to BMO field after reading his article. The truth is the article was not what a true journalist strives for--balance. Mind you as a left leaning paper, few could accuse the Star of being balance in any of their reporting. Nice try defending him.

ExiledRed
04-06-2009, 06:16 PM
MLSE should sue the bastard, and demand an apology on the front page.

Irresponsible journalism like this should be punishable by law.

I can't see why you're defending him at all John. Unless it's a machiavellian scheme to generate further furore over the article.

FluSH
04-06-2009, 06:24 PM
I was talking to a coworker of mine, who split season tickets with some of the guys at work at the very top of section 107, about his first game that he'll be going to this coming weekend. He said he's decided to sell his seats. Originally he'd planned on taking his boy (under 5), but now he thinks it would be an inappropriate environment to take his son, what with the violence and language and all.

I tried to convince him otherwise by offering that I sit in the South Section and this whole controversy is overblown. He gave me a 'you're one of those?' looks.

To echo Flush's comment a few pages back, this impacts regular people. This guy wont go because of the perception built up by the media. Instead, he'll find someone who is attracted by that idea (self-fulfilled prophecy?)


I feel shunned wherever I go. Discriminated. I wished I was actually an accused because I would at least be considered innocent until proven guilty. What has occured here is not the case... it is a travesty. Yesterday I was thinking about this over and over again... If there is any possibility or recourse I am willing to put my own money to seek litagation against some of these individuals. This is how seriously it has affected my life.

nfitz
04-06-2009, 06:40 PM
well whats the difference between kelly and any other new papper writer who has anything negative to say about TFC? Everytime someone says somethin bad many of you guys get so defensive. Its been a few years now, i think its about time you learn to just ignore or stop readding news papper writters if you dont like to here anything negative about TFC.The difference is:

1) There are things in there that are factually incorrect
2) This appeared as a news article on the front page of Canada's largest newspaper - Kelly's usual blathering has appeared as columns, which most people know not to take seriously.

Because of the nature of the article, many people will assume that it is true - because the Star wouldn't print stuff that wasn't true. This will impact soccer in Toronto. Everyone should be taking this seriously, and complaining to the newspaper until they retract the article - rather than running around worrying about moderation issues and a shortage of chips in the butties.

T_Mizz
04-06-2009, 06:40 PM
I'd like to see MLSE take action against this type of thing, think of all the potential revenue they are losing, anyone who was thinking about taking their kids or girl to the game will no think "I don't want to expose them to this filth" and it actually sickens me that someone is able to do something like this and get away with it. Paul B please, please please tell me you can do something, that you've been in contact with Kelly's boss, anything that can help us get through this crisis. Because there is nothing good that can result from this but so vry much that can go wrong.

Redcoe15
04-06-2009, 07:05 PM
Cathal Kelly is a Eurosnob. That's all there is to it. He's a soccer supporter who creams all over himself when watching a top flight European league match or a major international tournament, yet sees TFC and MLS as such a vastly inferior product that he feels it's his duty to warn people to avert their attention at the product that is out on BMO Field. So it's obvious he knew exactly what he was doing writing that bullshit piece in the Star on Sunday.

Shouldn't anybody contact the Star's ombudsman about Kelly's work?

nfitz
04-06-2009, 07:07 PM
Shouldn't anybody contact the Star's ombudsman about Kelly's work?I've already got complaints in to the Ontario Press Council, the city news desk, and the public editor, whatever that is.

Why don't you contact the ombudsman - the more voices the better I think.

Chevy
04-06-2009, 07:12 PM
Something that I just shot off to Cathal Kelly. FWIW.
-------------

Mr. Kelly,

In your April 5th article you have insinuated that it TFC fans were involved in the racial abuse of an opposing player. In fact, the abuse originated from a Columbus Crew fan in a game in which TFC was not even involved. I have provided a link below for your reference.

“In fact, nothing like the behaviour of Toronto FC fans would be tolerated in England. That laxity has drawn quiet concern from Major League Soccer executives, especially following incidents like last weekend's in Columbus and the racial abuse of a player last season. “

You are of course entitled to your opinion, even a poorly researched and consistently negative one at that (but that is for another email), but this requires an apology.

Thanks for your time,

JB


http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/05/an-ugly-scene-i.html

H Bomb
04-06-2009, 07:19 PM
it's straight up defamation. he spoke public untruths about us, that is grounds for litigation. we need a super rich patron to pay for a lawyer

arbogast
04-06-2009, 07:27 PM
I feel shunned wherever I go. Discriminated. I wished I was actually an accused because I would at least be considered innocent until proven guilty. What has occured here is not the case... it is a travesty. Yesterday I was thinking about this over and over again... If there is any possibility or recourse I am willing to put my own money to seek litagation against some of these individuals. This is how seriously it has affected my life.

Yeah, I've started to get dirty looks from random people who see me wearing TFC gear and it's making me feel like a societal outcast too.

Before people would come up and talk about the team, now I've noticed people moving away from me on the subway on the way to and from the game on saturday cuz I'm wearing the colours.

H Bomb
04-06-2009, 07:29 PM
^^^ really? That kinda seems not true to me. I wear my gear all over the place and nobody's running away or anything. a few folks HAVE asked me about the news and I've told them it was all made up, and they responded with " i thought so". Lets not martyr ourselves here guys.

Chevy
04-06-2009, 07:29 PM
Yeah, I've started to get dirty looks from random people who see me wearing TFC gear and it's making me feel like a societal outcast too.

Before people would come up and talk about the team, now I've noticed people moving away from me on the subway on the way to and from the game on saturday cuz I'm wearing the colours.

------
Keep wearing your gear and give everybody a nice big smile - its the only way you (we) can win.

Can somebody photoshop a scarf on a picture of Ghandi? We need all the help we can get!

CoachGT
04-06-2009, 07:32 PM
I spoke with a guy that I work with today about this whole mess. He said that he's always enjoyed hearing about the games when we spoke, and looked forward to a time when he might be able to go and sit in the south end. The article on the Sunday has made him change his tune - he now worries about taking his family to any TFC game, despite the fact that he knows that I go to every home game and many road games as well.

At first, reading the article, I felt the same outrage as many. I reread it last night and realized that many things said in the article are generally true and supported by RPB. There are a few insinuations that seem to be lazy journalism to me, cutting close to the line but never quite stepping across (I've had the chance to see defamation suits working at a large insurance company) - just bringing readers close enough so they can make their own leaps to judgment.

I suspect that this thread alone has created what many journalists want - more attention. And the prospect of writing about law abiding and peaceful fans won't create as much interest as the alternative.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting pretty tired of being labelled a hooligan just because I go to games and enjoy them with like minded people, being as supportive as I possibly can. Publicity or not, I'm proud to be a Red Patch Boy and I know my wife and daughter feel the same. Regardless of whether that is what anyone in the media want to hear.

arbogast
04-06-2009, 07:35 PM
^^^ really? That kinda seems not true to me. I wear my gear all over the place and nobody's running away or anything. a few folks HAVE asked me about the news and I've told them it was all made up, and they responded with " i thought so". Lets not martyr ourselves here guys.


Dude I shit you not. I wish it were true. Yeah there are people who nod and shit but this is first time i"m actually noticing dirty looks.

H Bomb
04-06-2009, 07:36 PM
well listen to other homey dude..big smiles!!!

arbogast
04-06-2009, 07:38 PM
well listen to other homey dude..big smiles!!!

fo' sho'!

Chevy
04-06-2009, 07:39 PM
[quote=CoachGT;457701]I spoke with a guy that I work with today about this whole mess. He said that he's always enjoyed hearing about the games when we spoke, and looked forward to a time when he might be able to go and sit in the south end. The article on the Sunday has made him change his tune - he now worries about taking his family to any TFC game, despite the fact that he knows that I go to every home game and many road games as well.

At first, reading the article, I felt the same outrage as many. I reread it last night and realized that many things said in the article are generally true and supported by RPB. There are a few insinuations that seem to be lazy journalism to me, cutting close to the line but never quite stepping across (I've had the chance to see defamation suits working at a large insurance company) - just bringing readers close enough so they can make their own leaps to judgment.

I suspect that this thread alone has created what many journalists want - more attention. And the prospect of writing about law abiding and peaceful fans won't create as much interest as the alternative.


It sure has:

This Thread: 2,400 views
This Saturday's Game Thread: 1,800 views

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 07:59 PM
^ That's Catheter himself refreshing the screen hundreds of times checking for new posts about himself.

Yes, he is that self-obsessed.

And if anything, the result of those irresponsible articles by Wheeler and Kelly show that they are not actually soccer fans but ambitious greedy scammers willing to whore themselves for notoriety.

CretanBull
04-06-2009, 08:06 PM
In Cathal's head we're a group of drunken frat boys who love to thump our chests and out macho each other. The reality is that on average our group is closer to 30 than it is to 20 and most of us are career and family oriented people.

Corcai
04-06-2009, 08:08 PM
Completely Ridiculous,

When I was 9 my cousin and his friend were given 3 tickets to a Monster Truck rally at Exhibition stadium. I remembered that everyone around me was smoking something other than tobacco, sniffing something off of a mirror, and looked like they belonged to a biker gang. Half way through this dude in the row below us who had 6 chick (prostitutes?) with him got into a fight with the row below and one of the chicks (ho's?) got punched in the month and landed on my lap.

Next, I was 13 and me and my friends went to a Blue Jay game at the relatively new skydome, I was the only one who didn't get absolutely pissed and ended up smacking around a few of my buds for throwing a beer on a 80 year old woman.

I have been in the 112 and cmon anyone who has can say that the SGs are the most indignant at stupid shit going on in their area. There is much, much worse going on at every NFL, and MLB game (500 level) than there is at BMO Field.

Irresponsible, negative reporting. I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter. If I took her to a TFC game, I am confident we would have a great time in 112 (unless she was tired and the chants were too loud).

Brooker
04-06-2009, 08:35 PM
how many drunks have gotten tossed from the SkyDome tonight?

H Bomb
04-06-2009, 08:36 PM
^^^ Yeah but this is the same bias we are asking to be excused from. For us to sit here and say go look at the jays is dumb....the Jays dont have a violence problem, only an occasion problem with a non baseball jackass...just like us.

Heathen
04-06-2009, 08:41 PM
You know what pisses me off almost as much as Kelly's lies is the overwhelming silence from the TFC FO. Already in this thread fans have given examples of a negative reaction arising from that article, wtf has Kelly got to print before someone at MLSE wakes up and stands up for the club

Heathen
04-06-2009, 08:45 PM
If you do not like what a guy writes, don't read it, it is nothing to lose any sleep over, no one is forcing anyone to read a specific writer, talk about who you like, not those you don't.

Time and effort should be directed towards people like Ben Knight, Ben Rycroft, Duane Rollins, writers who are passionate about the sport and the writing/talking expresses this to the max. extent.

It was on the Star's front page!, how many people read that compared to Ben Knight, Ben Rycroft or Duane Rollins. You're taking this very lightly I'm livid, other times when McCown, Toth whoever has said negative shit about TFC I really couldn't care less but this is accusing us of racism and tendency toward violence.

Corcai
04-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Well seriously,

As an RPB who probaly hasn't put in as much work as others, but still identifies themself with the grand achievements of others, how does this make you feel?

Racism and tendency toward violence would probably be the farthest away from what my experience has been so far. Unless these terms now apply to stupid fucking talking heads that fart out of their mouths and talk out of their ass.

CoachGT
04-06-2009, 09:31 PM
You know what pisses me off almost as much as Kelly's lies is the overwhelming silence from the TFC FO. Already in this thread fans have given examples of a negative reaction arising from that article, wtf has Kelly got to print before someone at MLSE wakes up and stands up for the club

To be honest, I think they are the ones who have it right. This has been trying for everyone, but no matter how you try, the damage has been done and nothing will undo it.

A reasonable approach is to look into the things that have happened and comment when as many facts as possible have been gathered rather than try to react and say or do something that comes back to haunt later.

TFC FO has backed the supporters groups, on Ben's radio show and through Anselmi's comments last week. mlsintoronto has commented that the troubles seem to be coming from areas other than the supporters groups and the FO has been in contact with the groups since the incident. Probably the biggest gesture is that there was not a ton of extra security at the game this past weekend and ......... nothing happened!

cmonyoureds
04-06-2009, 11:14 PM
John, all the slagging aside, could you please ask the person in question to provide some factual evidence to back up the statements that many have "taken issue with". Otherwise it's outright slander and lies in print, and that is indefensible.

ExiledRed
04-06-2009, 11:19 PM
^^Sure it's defensible, he has a good turn of phrase, descriptive prose and believes everything that he writes!

I think Hitler was similarly blessed.

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 11:19 PM
You know what pisses me off almost as much as Kelly's lies is the overwhelming silence from the TFC FO. Already in this thread fans have given examples of a negative reaction arising from that article, wtf has Kelly got to print before someone at MLSE wakes up and stands up for the club

My understanding is that the team is doing their best to work things out with the league first, I don't know if they plan on dealing with the media but they have their hands full for now.

Hopefully, they will make some statement. But Paul was already on "It's called Football" and already made some statements with regards to their position and Anselmi has as well. Would I like something stronger from them? Yes. But I think that would depend on their dealings with the league first.

ExiledRed
04-06-2009, 11:29 PM
^^What does the league have to do with how MLSE responds to the slanderous claims about one of it's businesses in a local shitrag?

MLSE should be all over the star for that, regardless of the league and no mistake.

Roogsy
04-06-2009, 11:45 PM
If there is one thing I have learned in dealing with TFC, it's that the relationship with the league is...unique. And complicated.

Given that history...I am wiling to give them the benefit of the doubt.

nfitz
04-07-2009, 12:29 AM
Well my 1,700 word complaint has gone to The Star, Cathal, and the Ontario Press Council. One day I'll probably copy it here - but in the meantime, I'd encourage you all to be original.

James Oliphant
04-07-2009, 12:45 AM
^^What does the league have to do with how MLSE responds to the slanderous claims about one of it's businesses in a local shitrag?

MLSE should be all over the star for that, regardless of the league and no mistake.

MLSE isn't the owner of TFC. Major League Soccer is.

Azerban
04-07-2009, 12:49 AM
I think Hitler was similarly blessed.

http://xs138.xs.to/xs138/09152/n613526455_1872195_5876905.jpg
In this picture, Cathal Kelly prepares his latest article for print.

MUFC_Niagara
04-07-2009, 01:54 AM
http://xs138.xs.to/xs138/09152/n613526455_1872195_5876905.jpg
In this picture, Cathal Kelly prepares his latest article for print.

I think calling him a Nazi is a little offside.

nfitz
04-07-2009, 07:29 AM
I think calling him a Nazi is a little offside.It would indeed - given that he was referring to the supporters clubs as "firms", many of which traditionally are neo-nazi, or at least very right-wing (the kind of right-wing that makes Harper look like a socialist).

pekduck
04-07-2009, 07:45 AM
Shit. Now the guys at work are joking with me that im part of the hooligan redpatch boys. Thanks alot Kelly. FUck you Catheter.

same here, from some one who never watched soccer but reads the star, lol

fortunately, we have RPB members and TFC SSH at work, out numbered them and truth got preserved

Mars
04-07-2009, 08:37 AM
Just called TheStar's circulation department and canceled my subscription. Gave them a detailed description of my reasons, which first and foremost stem from their continued denigration of RPB and soccer fans in general. Gave her specific quotes, and said that while I otherwise appreciate their coverage in other areas, I can nolonger in good concious continue to support their newspaper.

Lip service or not, she said that every incidence like this gets reported. Hit back where it hurts, their wallet.

FluSH
04-07-2009, 08:49 AM
double standards
anti-soccer media

Just because Cathal Kelly covered the Euros it doesn't mean he's not part of the anti-soccer movement here in Toronto.

His Trash Articles play on the anti-soccer audiance.

Toronto_Bhoy
04-07-2009, 09:01 AM
Lip service or not, she said that every incidence like this gets reported. Hit back where it hurts, their wallet.

That's the spot, Mars!

How many RPB's bought last Thursday's Sun for the TFC supplement?

I certainly didn't…

pekduck
04-07-2009, 09:02 AM
double standards
anti-soccer media

Just because Cathal Kelly covered the Euros it doesn't mean he's not part of the anti-soccer movement here in Toronto.

His Trash Articles play on the anti-soccer audiance.

I could careless of his intention/motivation/lack of competency or whatnot.

The bottom line is that it is creating prejudice from other people who are not soccer supporters and killing the support of this sport in Canada.

Most people who don't understand the sport and has no interest in it are making fun of us, compounding the negative images and causes the sport to lose potential fans.

Suds
04-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Just called TheStar's circulation department and canceled my subscription. Gave them a detailed description of my reasons, which first and foremost stem from their continued denigration of RPB and soccer fans in general. Gave her specific quotes, and said that while I otherwise appreciate their coverage in other areas, I can nolonger in good concious continue to support their newspaper.

Lip service or not, she said that every incidence like this gets reported. Hit back where it hurts, their wallet.

I applaud you for your conviction.

Heathen
04-07-2009, 09:18 AM
That's the spot, Mars!

How many RPB's bought last Thursday's Sun for the TFC supplement?

I certainly didn't…

Yes, especially in these times papers need all the subscriptions they can get, I'm cancelling mine once I have time to call them.
I think the News section guys on this board should refuse to link or paste any Star articles, if they haven't already

DOMIN8R
04-07-2009, 09:30 AM
Just called TheStar's circulation department and canceled my subscription. Gave them a detailed description of my reasons, which first and foremost stem from their continued denigration of RPB and soccer fans in general. Gave her specific quotes, and said that while I otherwise appreciate their coverage in other areas, I can nolonger in good concious continue to support their newspaper.

Lip service or not, she said that every incidence like this gets reported. Hit back where it hurts, their wallet.

I did the same 3 months ago in the last round of I hate Catheter threads.

FluSH
04-07-2009, 09:41 AM
Just called TheStar's circulation department and canceled my subscription. Gave them a detailed description of my reasons, which first and foremost stem from their continued denigration of RPB and soccer fans in general. Gave her specific quotes, and said that while I otherwise appreciate their coverage in other areas, I can nolonger in good concious continue to support their newspaper.

Lip service or not, she said that every incidence like this gets reported. Hit back where it hurts, their wallet.

I applaud you sir, if I had a Star Subscription I would do the same. Every bit of support matters... even if it's just one cancelled subscription... it matters to us.

tfcleeds
04-07-2009, 09:47 AM
Cancelled my Star subscription yesterday...

In fairness, their new beat writer for TFC, Daniel Girard, is pretty good, but it doesn't make up for the fact that Catheter still has a job with them.

FluSH
04-07-2009, 09:49 AM
^^^

woooot

I think we need to start a thread and a tally of all supporters who have cancelled their Star Subscription and have made note to their reps as to why.

gmacpheetfc
04-07-2009, 09:52 AM
Oh Cathal Kelly, is Fucking SHITE
Oh Cathal Kelly, is Fucking SHITE
Oh Cathal Kelly, is Fucking SHITE
Oh Cathal Kelly, is Fucking SHITE
Oh Cathal Kelly, is Fucking SHITE

(What kinda name is CathaL???)

GingerNinja
04-07-2009, 09:54 AM
If there is one thing I have learned in dealing with TFC, it's that the relationship with the league is...unique. And complicated.

Given that history...I am wiling to give them the benefit of the doubt.

So are you saying that the league hates TFC and does everything it can to hinder them, including following the NBA's example of telling the refs how to skew their calls to get a desired outcome?

tfcleeds
04-07-2009, 10:10 AM
Toronto Star, Toronto Sun, National Post...geez, not too many papers left that haven't dragged TFC or RPBs name through the mud at one time or other. I guess I should think about subscribing to the Globe?

What happens if the Globe writes an article that paints TFC or its supporters in an unfair light? Eye and NOW don't cover sports as far as I can recall...

Suds
04-07-2009, 10:14 AM
Toronto Star, Toronto Sun, National Post...geez, not too many papers left that haven't dragged TFC or RPBs name through the mud at one time or other. I guess I should think about subscribing to the Globe?

What happens if the Globe writes an article that paints TFC or its supporters in an unfair light? Eye and NOW don't cover sports as far as I can recall...


If an article is fair, balanced, and accurate I'll have no issue with it.

bgnewf
04-07-2009, 10:21 AM
What is it going to take in Toronto, and in North America for Soccer to be treated the same as every other sport out there?? No better or no worse, just fairly???

The only single difference between MLS and any other major sports league in North America is the organized soccer supporters culture. The "Firm" or "hooglian" moniker is lazy journalism at best and slander at worst when the implication is that there is organized violence at soccer matches between supporters clubs. Having identifiable supporters groups makes it unfortunately easy for lazy hacks like Kelly to make the leap to hooglianism.

I think we are at the point now where the team itself needs to intercede and get the message out there to the general public that there is no culture of hooglianism at TFC and frankly we deserve nothing less from them on this.

For two seasons MLSE has marketed its team not on the on field results but on the game day experience that we are a large part in creating. Frankly the team owes us. They owe us to the point that I frankly am suprised that they have not leveraged their contacts with the media to at least try and dispel some of the myths out there about hooglianism in general and TFC Supporters culture in particular.

You out there Paul Bierne???

Sonny Cheeba
04-07-2009, 10:27 AM
Cancelled my Star subscription yesterday...

In fairness, their new beat writer for TFC, Daniel Girard, is pretty good, but it doesn't make up for the fact that Catheter still has a job with them.

i haven't had a subscription for a couple of years now....


I only miss it for garage sale listings in the summer, but now we've got Kijiji and Craigslist.

Newspapers are going down the can.

we've got Denime for our morning news.

K1nG
04-07-2009, 10:40 AM
Cathal Kelly reminds me of the journalist from the last season of The Wire. Essentially he wrote lies and used non existant annonymous sources. I am not surpised that he writes for the Star, a paper that allows a Liberal Party campaign strategist to write an article bashing the Conservatives. Unbiased? Credible? I think not. I wouldnt even use the Star in my birdcage.

K1nG

Sullivan
04-07-2009, 11:01 AM
I think this clown might live in Guelph.
The picture looks so much like one of my sister's neighbours.
I know my brother-in-law thinks the neighbour in question is a total pric to boot.

Covlad
04-07-2009, 11:01 AM
it's not important who it was, and it doesn't really matter.

The purpose of my original post was just to let you know that from talking to Cathal personally and getting to know him, I can attest to the fact that he is a genuine soccer fan and, whether right or wrong, he honestly believes what he writes and doesn't print stuff just to cause an uproar.

Again, that's not to suggest I agree with him all of the time, or even on this matter about the perceived fan problem.

I just wanted to bring some balance to the discussion and stick up for him a bit - probably because of my "if-you-can't-say-anything-nice-don't-say it" upbringing.

John


You are joking right????

Roogsy
04-07-2009, 11:13 AM
^^^

woooot

I think we need to start a thread and a tally of all supporters who have cancelled their Star Subscription and have made note to their reps as to why.


Agreed. Let's motivate people to cancel their Sun and Star subscriptions and when they do, to explain the reason why.

Sullivan
04-07-2009, 11:29 AM
Yup.
Next time the telemarketers disturb me at dinner offering a freebie I'll sign on and then dump it after a week.

s2cazz
04-07-2009, 11:58 AM
I think calling him a Nazi is a little offside.
But isn't it ok to declare your own personal opinion as fact without and facts or evidence to support you?

That the lesson I'm learning through all of this.

/sarcasm

ensco
04-07-2009, 12:00 PM
MLSE isn't the owner of TFC. Major League Soccer is.

Ths distinction is irrelevant for this purpose. MLSE operate the team. They are management and best situated to understand the facts.

Pookie
04-07-2009, 12:11 PM
^ I think the issue is that he took some evidence and tried to spin a story in a way which was unfair.

As many in this thread have mentioned, there have been some idiotic things that have happened at games. There are a handful of incidents you can point to that did happen. Beer has been thrown at games. Fights have happened and 1 guy was arrested.

I'd wager there were more incidents at the Jays last April (or maybe this April if things continue). But that's where his sensationalism and spin doctoring comes in.

Take issue with that. Attack the points. Be the better man.

To paint him as a Nazi is offensive and possibly slanderous.


... as a side note, I wonder how come they don't publish the name of the guy that got arrested? Seems to me in every crime they say "so and so was arrested for..." yet in this one, it's "TFC Fans..."

Guess that doesn't spin as well.

Oldtimer
04-07-2009, 12:16 PM
MLSE owns half of TFC, the league owns the other half.

s2cazz
04-07-2009, 12:16 PM
/sarcasm
must have missed this part
I mean calling the man a Nazi with absolutely no evidence to back it up is a bit riduculous... I just see the irony in the fact that thats pretty much what he did on the whole racism issue

ExiledRed
04-07-2009, 12:19 PM
To paint him as a Nazi is offensive and possibly slanderous.



Lets nip this in the bud on behalf the righteous.

My comment in no way paints Cathal as a nazi.

I was pointing out that despite Hitler's gifts of language, public speaking and self belief, he was still a genocidal bastard.

ergo

Despite Cathy's good turn of phrase, descriptive prose and belief that what he writes is factual, he is still an untalented hack.

Azerban's photo was humourous and satirical, and is hardly an allegation that CK is a nazi. get over it people.

nfitz
04-07-2009, 12:24 PM
(What kinda name is CathaL???)Gaelic. As a name, I think it is quite cool!

ensco
04-07-2009, 04:53 PM
Lets nip this in the bud on behalf the righteous.

My comment in no way paints Cathal as a nazi.

I was pointing out that despite Hitler's gifts of language, public speaking and self belief, he was still a genocidal bastard.

ergo

Despite Cathy's good turn of phrase, descriptive prose and belief that what he writes is factual, he is still an untalented hack.

Azerban's photo was humourous and satirical, and is hardly an allegation that CK is a nazi. get over it people.

Apparently Stalin was a good dancer. Maybe all dancers are communist murderers?

H Bomb
04-07-2009, 05:39 PM
Maybe all dancers are Facsist murderers?

fixed
;)

Corcai
04-07-2009, 07:47 PM
Yeah Cathal is a Gaelic name, Many of whom represent the name much better than him

MUFC_Niagara
04-07-2009, 07:56 PM
must have missed this part
I mean calling the man a Nazi with absolutely no evidence to back it up is a bit riduculous... I just see the irony in the fact that thats pretty much what he did on the whole racism issue

I'm not defending the guy at all because he's a twat. Just sayign we should stay away from Hitler and Nazi references as it can be turned against us.

s2cazz
04-07-2009, 07:58 PM
I'm not defending the guy at all because he's a twat. Just sayign we should stay away from Hitler and Nazi references as it can be turned against us.
kudos

Phil
04-07-2009, 07:59 PM
I'm not defending the guy at all because he's a twat. Just sayign we should stay away from Hitler and Nazi references as it can be turned against us.


Agreed, lets use some common sense here guys.

I am not happy with the words he put out there but drawing comparisons with that stuff is wrong.

ExiledRed
04-07-2009, 08:07 PM
I stand by my comment, it's perfectly valid and doesnt at all state that Kelly is a nazi or comparable to one in any way. It merely illustrates the unimportance of his qualities against his flaws.

Does this board have to be diluted for the lowest common denominator, just in case those who arent that smart, or have language difficulties, misunderstand something?

s2cazz
04-07-2009, 08:13 PM
I stand by my comment, it's perfectly valid and doesnt at all state that Kelly is a nazi or comparable to one in any way. It merely illustrates the unimportance of his qualities against his flaws.

Does this board have to be diluted for the lowest common denominator, just in case those who arent that smart, or have language difficulties, misunderstand something?
I agree with you , however...prying eyes man...prying eyes

besides just because he pulls comments out of his ass with absolutely no proof (racism) doesn't mean we should stoop to his level

Azerban
04-07-2009, 08:14 PM
Does this board have to be diluted for the lowest common denominator, just in case those who arent that smart, or have language difficulties, misunderstand something?

um yes

Chevy
04-07-2009, 08:14 PM
What does denominator mean? :)

EENIE MAN
04-07-2009, 09:06 PM
heard a few disses toward TFC supporters the other morning on the EDGE 102.1 morning show. calling us "douche bags"....coming from the worlds largest douche himself , i took it with a grain of salt. needless to say; last time i listen to that show again......TFC!

s2cazz
04-07-2009, 09:16 PM
heard a few disses toward TFC supporters the other morning on the EDGE 102.1 morning show. calling us "douche bags"....coming from the worlds largest douche himself , i took it with a grain of salt. needless to say; last time i listen to that show again......TFC!
I can live with people calling me names. I can live with people talking shit about the teams, SG's and sport in general. That is there opinion and thats ok, they are allowed to have one. Its the unsubstantiated allegations of violence and hooliganism that really make me mad... its when you state your opinion as if it were fact that is wrong. if he had evidence of racism amonst are fans and SG's I would applaud him for calling those people out. He generalized a group of people with absolutly no evidence to support what he was saying. If anyone were to do the same toward any race or ethnicity it would be racism which would be wrong... we may not be a single race of people but we as fans have all been generalized into racist violent thugs who go to games to vandalize property and start fights and to me that is even more disgusting than the behaviour described!

EENIE MAN
04-07-2009, 09:32 PM
no doubt. but just another example of shit journalism that other media feed off of and spread the negativity about somthing they read about just to fill time and stir shit. again everyone is tittled to thier oppion , but to generalize is ignorant .IMO.

Blizzard
04-07-2009, 09:33 PM
What does denominator mean? :)

It's an Arnold Schwarzenegger film I do believe. :D

Oblio2
04-07-2009, 09:34 PM
I got called a "fucking FC Hooligan" again today...by a fucking Blue Jay fan.
Fucking a-holes...this media bullshit sucks.

FluSH
04-07-2009, 09:38 PM
I got called a "fucking FC Hooligan" again today...by a fucking Blue Jay fan.
Fucking a-holes...this media bullshit sucks.

Thank You Cathal... Than You Whealer...

anti-soccer
anti-supporter

EENIE MAN
04-07-2009, 09:41 PM
I got 2 thumbs up from some young lads on the steeet today (i was wearing my gear) and the dude at the liqor store called me a "hooligan" , then smilled and said " see ya saturday ....TFC!" I smilled back and said "TFC" . Thumbs up. we know who we are are.

mighty_torontofc_2008
04-07-2009, 09:48 PM
John,
Cathal is not football friendly he is so negative as is most of TO's sports media towards the sport...living here in Brantford and a STH for TFC for the first 3 years i had my RPB scarf on today...and a few people remarked...are you part of the bunch that rioted in Columbus? like WTF? i asked where they got info like that and the Star
name was mentioned along with a few local TV stations like city tv..I was not in Columbus, and just because im a member of the RPB, because of people like Cathal,
sports fans assume just because i am a RPB memeber we started something down
there..like its pretty sad when people read this and assume most TFC fans are drunken idiots ready to fight ever game.

nfitz
04-08-2009, 06:29 AM
There's a correction in today's Star on page A2 regarding Sunday's article, noting that the claims that MSLE were concerned about racial abuse were untrue, and that it was MLS that had such concerns, but not in Toronto.

And a good letter to the editor as well.

Chevy
04-08-2009, 06:44 AM
Fantastic. Great letter too!

RedWookie
04-08-2009, 06:55 AM
anybody read about the jays home opening? it was pretty much "fan throws a ball" the end.

no mention of the fights that broke out, or even of the guy puking on another guy. I guess baseball is the golden child here in Toronto.

alexintoronto
04-08-2009, 09:05 AM
News correction for April 8
Apr 08, 2009 04:30 AM

An April 5 article on the behaviour of Toronto FC soccer fans incorrectly stated that Maple Leaf Sports executives are concerned about the racial abuse of a player last season. In fact, it is executives of Major League Soccer who are concerned with that racial abuse incident. That incident did not involve any players or fans of Toronto FC, which is owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

http://www.thestar.com/Corrections/article/615421

alexintoronto
04-08-2009, 09:08 AM
I was alarmed to see soccer "hooliganism" on your front page when there is really no cause for concern.
Cathal Kelly reports a single arrest in Columbus in a game attended by 16,000 people, mostly young men. Surely the low arrest rate indicates exceptionally good behaviour.
He also bemoans the plastic cups and paper streamers thrown in the home match against Seattle. I was there, in the south end, and did see one beer cup being thrown. Security responded quickly and effectively, identifying and removing the culprit to universal approval. Kelly also criticizes the amount of beer being drunk, yet acknowledges this causes no more trouble than at the Air Canada Centre.
Hooliganism in England, invoked by Mr. Kelly, consisted of large, organized gangs of violent thugs terrorizing town centres and local populations. Their behaviour often resulted in serious damage, injury, or death.
To compare that to the infectious enthusiasm of 20-something Canadian youths throwing streamers does a terrible disservice to the passion and commitment that has made TFC the success it is.
Ivan Lewis, Toronto

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/615262

Roogsy
04-08-2009, 09:14 AM
Great friggin' comment.

GabrielHurl
04-08-2009, 11:21 AM
The main site references Kelly today as "the city's favourite doom merchant"

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/fans/blogs/kick_about/

Oblio2
04-08-2009, 11:42 AM
"the city's favourite doom merchant" = "Douchebag"

King Jeff
04-08-2009, 11:50 AM
News correction for April 8
Apr 08, 2009 04:30 AM

An April 5 article on the behaviour of Toronto FC soccer fans incorrectly stated that Maple Leaf Sports executives are concerned about the racial abuse of a player last season. In fact, it is executives of Major League Soccer who are concerned with that racial abuse incident. That incident did not involve any players or fans of Toronto FC, which is owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

http://www.thestar.com/Corrections/article/615421

Wow, that is an incredibly backhanded correction. It makes it sound like racism is a league-wide issue. No expression of apology or regret, either. :noidea:

Jack
04-08-2009, 11:54 AM
Wow, that is an incredibly backhanded correction. It makes it sound like racism is a league-wide issue. No expression of apology or regret, either. :noidea:
The correction sounds right to me.

The article implied there was a link with TFC supporters and racism. The correction says this isn't true and it has nothing to do with TFC fans or MLSE.

As for the apology, well...I wouldn't hold my breath for that.

nfitz
04-08-2009, 12:14 PM
I'm still in communication with the Ontario Press Council and the Toronto Star about the original article. I haven't had a response yet on my complaint (acknowledgements from both, and a tentative timeframe for a hearing). Though if they make a couple more corrections, then there will only be trivia to complain about. In particular the use of the word "firms" in application with Toronto supporters groups is ... well it's about the same as calling Toronto's newspapers mouthpieces of the communist party ... it's just so wrong it's weird ...

Has anyone else made a proper complaint, or has no one else gone further than cancelling a subscription (which while commendable - isn't what I want to do).

Mango Kid
04-08-2009, 08:31 PM
John,

I hope you read the Edmonton Sun piece:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/2009/04/01/8959101-sun.html



He said 2,000 in one sentence and 1,500 in the next? That son of a...! :D

FluSH
04-08-2009, 08:37 PM
I'm still in communication with the Ontario Press Council and the Toronto Star about the original article. I haven't had a response yet on my complaint (acknowledgements from both, and a tentative timeframe for a hearing). Though if they make a couple more corrections, then there will only be trivia to complain about. In particular the use of the word "firms" in application with Toronto supporters groups is ... well it's about the same as calling Toronto's newspapers mouthpieces of the communist party ... it's just so wrong it's weird ...

Has anyone else made a proper complaint, or has no one else gone further than cancelling a subscription (which while commendable - isn't what I want to do).

Thank you nfitz,

More action like this is needed... guess what I'm doing on good friday... I'll even complain to the Better Business Bureau if I have to becasue The Toronto Star is delivering FAKE goods. =P

s2cazz
04-08-2009, 09:11 PM
well then shame on the comment maker... I won't kill the messenger.
that seriously was a very stupid comment to make .. with or without the nightmare of controversy we are surrounded in right now...

congratulations in 6 words you managed to insult 2 groups of people

Mango Kid
04-08-2009, 09:14 PM
^ Could not agree more with you on that one, and translating it publicly was ill-advised in my book.

Frankly, I think there's far too much hate flying about right now. If we're not guilty of something, then let's not act the part either. Just my $0.02.

Roogsy
04-08-2009, 09:20 PM
It has been taken care of, let's move on guys.

s2cazz
04-08-2009, 09:22 PM
^ Could not agree more with you on that one, and translating it publicly was ill-advised in my book.

Frankly, I think there's far too much hate flying about right now. If we're not guilty of something, then let's not act the part either. Just my $0.02.
yeah there is far too much hate flying around right now...
the economy is in the toilet
tfc just lost
Columbus (need i say more?)
and to top it off dickholes like kelly and wheeler are printing lies and affecting lives and careers of honest people

Not to excuse the hate because it is absolutely unacceptable but this is definately a dangerous mix right now...

s2cazz
04-08-2009, 09:24 PM
It has been taken care of, let's move on guys.
good

Mango Kid
04-08-2009, 09:29 PM
Not this guy - my Toronto FC scarves (the ones I don't bring to games) remain proudly displayed in my office, alongside a dozen other scarves and the one guy who asked how I still have them displayed post-CBus with the "aren't I clever?" look on his mug was dealt with nicely. I'm in the investment game and said "hey, the markets have went for shit...are you still telling your clients to invest? At least there is substance to that story and not a flash in the pan."

Point for me.

s2cazz
04-08-2009, 09:48 PM
Atleast John's stopped defending this guy...Hopefully he's given up on him

sully
04-08-2009, 09:54 PM
Atleast John's stopped defending this guy...Hopefully he's given up on him

I can remember a debate we had with John last year over the name of the team..the old 'FC' debacle...I recall he gave into logic in the end when it was proposed that we call the CBC the 'BC' instead..

Blizzard
04-09-2009, 12:04 AM
I can remember a debate we had with John last year over the name of the team..the old 'FC' debacle...I recall he gave into logic in the end when it was proposed that we call the CBC the 'BC' instead..

I think we should start calling the Blue Jays the "B.J.'s". That might garner some sort of negative reaction.

Redcoe15
04-09-2009, 08:40 AM
I think we should start calling the Blue Jays the "B.J.'s". That might garner some sort of negative reaction.
+1 :thumbsup: :D

gmacpheetfc
04-09-2009, 08:59 AM
cathal kelly is a twat, cathal kelly is a twat
cathal kelly is a twat
cathal kelly is a twat
cathal kelly is a twat, cathal kelly is a twat