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Rawkus_420
04-05-2009, 07:57 PM
Yes the sounders did seem too dominate the play from a control of the game perspective....they were much better at keeping the ball on the ground then we were...and then stringing a couple of passes together.

When (the very few times) that TFC got more than 2 passes together, it created chances....its the passing game that got us, it was brutal. The balls always came way too late, aplayer would make a decent run, but by the time it was spotted by his teammate with the ball, they had no choice but back track their run to receive a pass, we need to be sharper in that aspect with earlier passes, play the man into space to force their palyers to shift, we made it too easy for them.

I thought defensively we were ok, except for two breakdowns on which both times they finished their chances...other than that they had no other clearcut chances.

On the bright side....Barrettt and PAblo Vitti could have won the game for us. That goal that got called back was not offisde......KEller got saved by his defender when barretts shot was cleared off the line...and then Keller made a great save on Vitti's volley.

We had more clearcut goal opportunities...just the finishing wasnt there....The sounders finished their chances and that was the difference.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:02 PM
Yes the sounders did seem too dominate the play from a control of the game perspective....they were much better at keeping the ball on the ground then we were...and then stringing a couple of passes together.

When (the very few times) that TFC got more than 2 passes together, it created chances....its the passing game that got us, it was brutal. The balls always came way too late, aplayer would make a decent run, but by the time it was spotted by his teammate with the ball, they had no choice but back track their run to receive a pass, we need to be sharper in that aspect with earlier passes, play the man into space to force their palyers to shift, we made it too easy for them.

I thought defensively we were ok, except for two breakdowns on which both times they finished their chances...other than that they had no other clearcut chances.

On the bright side....Barrettt and PAblo Vitti could have won the game for us. That goal that got called back was not offisde......KEller got saved by his defender when barretts shot was cleared off the line...and then Keller made a great save on Vitti's volley.

We had more clearcut goal opportunities...just the finishing wasnt there....The sounders finished their chances and that was the difference.

The goal that got called back was because of a foul. A well deserved foul on Dichio. I guess that's why people keep saying that we got robed. At the stadium I wasn't sure what happened, when I got home, it was clear it was called back because of a foul on Dichio.

T_Mizz
04-05-2009, 08:03 PM
Plus Brennan's meg was phenominal

Rawkus_420
04-05-2009, 08:04 PM
Plus Brennan's meg was phenominal

agreed ...first prize!


We saw what we need to work on....but there were some bright spots too!

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:05 PM
The goal that got called back was because of a foul. A well deserved foul on Dichio. I guess that's why people keep saying that we got robed. At the stadium I wasn't sure what happened, when I got home, it was clear it was called back because of a foul on Dichio.

If you think that was the only instance we got "robbed" then you didn't rewatch the game. There were several.

Rawkus_420
04-05-2009, 08:07 PM
The goal that got called back was because of a foul. A well deserved foul on Dichio. I guess that's why people keep saying that we got robed. At the stadium I wasn't sure what happened, when I got home, it was clear it was called back because of a foul on Dichio.

Im going to watch the replay now, I caught the quick replay on the bigscreen at the game...I havent been in the mood yet to watch my tape replay.

My above rant was based on my observations at BMO, I should have mentioned that lol:canada:

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:09 PM
If you think that was the only instance we got "robbed" then you didn't rewatch the game. There were several.

I was referring specifically to the goal that got called back which Rawkus mentioned in his post. NOTHING ELSE. You might want to try re-reading my post next time.

Oh, and get off this shit that we would've won with a proper ref. the calls were hurrendous both ways. The ref didn't put the ball in the net for Seattle either.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:11 PM
Im going to watch the replay now, I caught the quick replay on the bigscreen at the game...I havent been in the mood yet to watch my tape replay.

My above rant was based on my observations at BMO, I should have mentioned that lol:canada:

Yeah I was of the same opinion until I watched it last night. I watched it without volume though, I'm curious to hear what Nigel had to say about it. I had people over and didn't want to turn it up. But the ref seemed to point at the spot where Dichio pushed the guy. That's the way it looked to me anyways.

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2009, 08:11 PM
One thing I want TFC to improve at this season, and perhaps it's too much to demand of MLS-caliber players, is combination passing.

When a TFC player has the ball, there rarely seems to be a game plan formulating around him - even just simple one-two passes are rare.

Instead, we either employ the now infamous "hoof and pray" strategy, or we use a couple of direct passes, followed by a (usually bad) attempt at one "grand gesture" pass. What I mean by that, is that we will go for some impossible through ball into heavy traffic, or an equally impossible cross into traffic. We don't "earn" space for the forwards, by spreading out the opposing defense with lots of good lateral ball movement.

Players like Amado, DeRo, and Pablo could probably net all kinds of goals, if we would just do the necessary work around them, in order to give them space to work.

Agree? Disagree?

- Scott

LucaGol
04-05-2009, 08:15 PM
One thing I want TFC to improve at this season, and perhaps it's too much to demand of MLS-caliber players, is combination passing.

When a TFC player has the ball, there rarely seems to be a game plan formulating around him - even just simple one-two passes are rare.

Instead, we either employ the now infamous "hoof and pray" strategy, or we use a couple of direct passes, followed by a (usually bad) attempt at one "grand gesture" pass. What I mean by that, is that we will go for some impossible through ball into heavy traffic, or an equally impossible cross into traffic. We don't "earn" space for the forwards, by spreading out the opposing defense with lots of good lateral ball movement.

Players like Amado, DeRo, and Pablo could probably net all kinds of goals, if we would just do the necessary work around them, in order to give them space to work.

Agree? Disagree?

- Scott

I strongly agree.

We rarely if ever have long spells of possession in the opposition half ... (and this wasn't just yesterday). Our attack relies on wing play ... and poor wing play at that. Usually our attack motions consist of funneling the ball to the flanks and crossing the ball into the area. This usually takes 2 or 3 passes. It's all too impatient for me.

As you said ... we have to earn the space, wait for the holes to open up, more off the ball movement, one touch passing, varying the points of attack.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:18 PM
One thing I want TFC to improve at this season, and perhaps it's too much to demand of MLS-caliber players, is combination passing.

When a TFC player has the ball, there rarely seems to be a game plan formulating around him - even just simple one-two passes are rare.

Instead, we either employ the now infamous "hoof and pray" strategy, or we use a couple of direct passes, followed by a (usually bad) attempt at one "grand gesture" pass. What I mean by that, is that we will go for some impossible through ball into heavy traffic, or an equally impossible cross into traffic. We don't "earn" space for the forwards, by spreading out the opposing defense with lots of good lateral ball movement.

Players like Amado, DeRo, and Pablo could probably net all kinds of goals, if we would just do the necessary work around them, in order to give them space to work.

Agree? Disagree?

- Scott

Yeah I completely agree. Although I must say, I don't see much of that in the entire league. Yesterday Seattle did it to us consistently, which is what made it even more embarassing.

I think combination passing is really what makes a great team. Look at all the good teams in Europe. They move into open space and their players pass the ball without ever even having to look at where the player is. They just have this instict about their own team and their trust their players will be in the right spot.

The day I see that in MLS, is the day I'll be shoked though :)

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:19 PM
I was referring specifically to the goal that got called back which Rawkus mentioned in his post. NOTHING ELSE. You might want to try re-reading my post next time.

Oh, and get off this shit that we would've won with a proper ref. the calls were hurrendous both ways. The ref didn't put the ball in the net for Seattle either.

Name an instance where his stupidity cost Seattle a goal. Because it did for Toronto. And if you can't name an instance...your point becomes worthless.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:22 PM
Name an instance where his stupidity cost Seattle a goal. Because it did for Toronto. And if you can't name an instance...your point becomes worthless.

So how about you name 2 instances where the play cost us a goal directly? I'm not the one claiming we lost because of the ref. It's your burden to proove buddy. For fuck sakes Carver of all people said 100 times in the post game interview we didn't lose because of the ref. Now I invite you to go rewatch the game.

LucaGol
04-05-2009, 08:26 PM
Honestly, even if reffing decisions did cost a goal, two goals ... so what ... we still played extremely poorly.

A tie would have left me with the same bad feeling I had after the Columbus game. (A point is ok ... but there are greater issues.)

I realize that you can't always play pretty soccer and have to grind out results ... but these are supposedly professionals out there who don't even seem to be able to pass a soccer ball correctly. (let alone trap, cross or shoot the ball)

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:26 PM
I did. The Vitti goal is one definite instance. Several corners that we deserved are other opportunities. Even the Rohan PK, which may or may not have been deserved but funny how that call doesn't go in our favour. And definitely, DEFINITELY the red that should have been awarded.

And perhaps you should re-read my posts as well. I never said we lost because of the ref. Only that he sucked and made TFC's job to get back in the game all that much harder. That is not the job of the ref. The goals we let in were purely our fault and yes we must be accountable. But adding to the burden should be something we all should be upset about. It's supposed to be an even playing field.

Let me know when you have rewatched the game without this Carver axe you've been grinding since last year.

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:27 PM
Honestly, even if reffing decisions did cost a goal, two goals ... so what ... we still played extremely poorly.

A tie would have left me with the same bad feeling I had after the Columbus game. A point is ok ... but there are greater issues.

I realize that you can't always play pretty soccer and have to grind out results ... but these are supposedly professionals out there who don't even seem to be able to pass a soccer ball correctly. (let alone trap, cross or shoot the ball)

I don't disagree.

But we did play well enough to stay in the game and perhaps save a point from it and having a ref stand in our way shouldn't be something we excuse nor forgive.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:31 PM
I did. The Vitti goal is one definite instance. Several corners that we deserved are other opportunities. Even the Rohan PK, which may or may not have been deserved but funny how that call doesn't go in our favour. And definitely, DEFINITELY the red that should have been awarded.

And perhaps you should re-read my posts as well. I never said we lost because of the ref. Only that he sucked and made TFC's job to get back in the game all that much harder. That is not the job of the ref. The goals we let in were purely our fault and yes we must be accountable. But adding to the burden should be something we all should be upset about. It's supposed to be an even playing field.

Let me know when you have rewatched the game without this Carver axe you've been grinding since last year.

Dude, not even you understands what your argument is here. Did you mix this up with the Carver thread or something? We are talking about the fucking ref. haha, this is too funny.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:35 PM
I don't disagree.

But we did play well enough to stay in the game and perhaps save a point from it and having a ref stand in our way shouldn't be something we excuse nor forgive.

Complaining about the ref in a game where we played discustinngly bad is like telling on your mommy when your sister hit you back after you hit her first ;)

Detroit_TFC
04-05-2009, 08:44 PM
The original post pinpoints the thing bothering me the most - the passing game.

In KC the passing game was there. It was beautiful. In Columbus, not as much, and yesterday, it was gone. I thought for sure that due to the weather conditions they would pursue the game on the ground. It seemed like they tried but people just weren't in the right position.

Frustrating.

Dirk Diggler
04-05-2009, 08:44 PM
I don't want to get drawn into this debate again but you guys might want to watch the replay on the Vitti "goal". To say that it was a definite goal would be quite the bold statement considering how the two defenders and Keller let up after they heard the whistle.

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:46 PM
Complaining about the ref in a game where we played discustinngly bad is like telling on your mommy when your sister hit you back after you hit her first ;)

Worst

Comparison

Ever

Fine...excuse the refs. On top of the league not holding them accountable, now the fans won't as well. THat's how they will get better. Sure.

marshall_law
04-05-2009, 08:56 PM
bottom line: there's nothing that we can do about the officiating in this league. it's awful, everybody knows that. but, to try and pin yesterday's loss in any way on the ref is absurd. the way that i look at it is like this: "bad" calls aside (however you want to define that), would you be happy with the way that toronto performed yesterday?

my answer would be a resounding "no." they weren't just flat - they were technically poor. how is it that you have a team of "professionals" resorting to long ball in absolutely atrocious weather? they should - they have to - know better. c'mon, this is basic stuff that we're talking about here.

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 09:00 PM
The loss is on the team. Let me make that clear.

But when a team is playing poorly...the last thing we need is bad refereeing. If we are going to lose, I want to lose fair and square and not lose against 11 Seattle players plus 1 player in yellow.

Pachuco
04-06-2009, 09:04 AM
The loss is on the team. Let me make that clear.

But when a team is playing poorly...the last thing we need is bad refereeing. If we are going to lose, I want to lose fair and square and not lose against 11 Seattle players plus 1 player in yellow.

So the loss yesterday wasn't fair? so in other words, we could have won with a better ref? clueless!!! Instead of holding the ref accountable why don't you try and hold the players or the coach accountable? After all, that's the only thing under TFC's control. They can't and won't control who the ref is for the rest of their existence. Unless you play in Italy of course.

fetajr
04-06-2009, 09:16 AM
One thing I want TFC to improve at this season, and perhaps it's too much to demand of MLS-caliber players, is combination passing.

When a TFC player has the ball, there rarely seems to be a game plan formulating around him - even just simple one-two passes are rare.

Instead, we either employ the now infamous "hoof and pray" strategy, or we use a couple of direct passes, followed by a (usually bad) attempt at one "grand gesture" pass. What I mean by that, is that we will go for some impossible through ball into heavy traffic, or an equally impossible cross into traffic. We don't "earn" space for the forwards, by spreading out the opposing defense with lots of good lateral ball movement.

Players like Amado, DeRo, and Pablo could probably net all kinds of goals, if we would just do the necessary work around them, in order to give them space to work.

Agree? Disagree?

- Scott

i agree 100%..

But who should be formulating and making sure those creative plays get executed? ... Carver and his staff? Carver is die hard red and his passion is admirable, but I am not sold on his game plan... .the worse being the offensive zone throw in's directly into the box as if we have Andy Koller playing for us..every fucking throw in is like that... :noidea:

Super
04-06-2009, 09:24 AM
I want to see how they play on Saturday. That's all I care about. Teams will often under-perform, but it's the good teams that are able to quickly correct themselves and give a strong showing to prove themselves after a bad game.

Let's give them time, and see what happens on Saturday. If our boys show up, fight hard, and bring home a win, then everything is great again. We lost one game in the first 3. Not that big of a deal. What's important is the moral of our team and their ability to bounce back. If they have that installed in them we'll do much better than last year - and that's a guarantee!

pubboy
04-06-2009, 09:35 AM
So the loss yesterday wasn't fair? so in other words, we could have won with a better ref? clueless!!! Instead of holding the ref accountable why don't you try and hold the players or the coach accountable? After all, that's the only thing under TFC's control. They can't and won't control who the ref is for the rest of their existence. Unless you play in Italy of course.

It shouldnt be either or. Yes, we played shit and should hold them accountable for that. I dont think anyone is denying how bad we were, but that shouldnt stop the poor officiating from being raised and them being held accountable also.

TFCREDNWHITE
04-06-2009, 09:43 AM
The goal that got called back was because of a foul. A well deserved foul on Dichio. I guess that's why people keep saying that we got robed. At the stadium I wasn't sure what happened, when I got home, it was clear it was called back because of a foul on Dichio.

I watched it live, and watched again when i got home from BMO, I don't think Dichio should have been called for a foul what-so-ever....

spark
04-06-2009, 01:23 PM
So the loss yesterday wasn't fair? so in other words, we could have won with a better ref? clueless!!! Instead of holding the ref accountable why don't you try and hold the players or the coach accountable? After all, that's the only thing under TFC's control. They can't and won't control who the ref is for the rest of their existence. Unless you play in Italy of course.

I don't think anyone is saying we would have won, but it would have been a different game. If some of those calls were different we could have clawed back for 1 point. Yeah we sucked, but so did that ref.

And think about this when talking about holding the players, not the ref responsible. Yes that is the only thing under their control and that is why you need competent refs. We could play the best game ever, but if a ref has it out for a team or is incompetent in making calls they have the power to dictate a game. I think we saw that in the second half.

Pachuco
04-06-2009, 03:10 PM
I don't think anyone is saying we would have won, but it would have been a different game. If some of those calls were different we could have clawed back for 1 point. Yeah we sucked, but so did that ref.

And think about this when talking about holding the players, not the ref responsible. Yes that is the only thing under their control and that is why you need competent refs. We could play the best game ever, but if a ref has it out for a team or is incompetent in making calls they have the power to dictate a game. I think we saw that in the second half.

We didn't play the best game ever. In fact, personally, we played the worst in TFC history. I say that because of the players we have on the team and the expectations we had playing our first home game. So, when we play the best game ever, and the ref costs us a win, I will be more then happy to slam the ref. Until then, I'll keep slamming our players and coach everytime they fail to come out and play and I freeze my ass off while paying for $12.50 beers.

So I get your point, I'm just of the opinion that it doesn't apply. We would never have tied the game with a good ref, and we played like shit so why bother complaining about it?