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TFC OZZ
04-05-2009, 09:02 AM
All I can say is I'm unhappy with the way the team played, I am angry at the officiating, but I am disgusted at the treatment of Carver by some fans in 123.

Chants such as "you don't know what you're doing", and "Go back to Newcastle" were sung, and I was flat out outraged. I see no benefit to those kinds of remarks, and I also think it's silly to suggest he leave after a single loss this season. The last thing we need at this club is the instability of losing our manager.

He picked the same team that I would have picked (i'm undecided on the velez/Harmse issue) and I don't feel like he deserved anything like what he got. Being a supporter is about helping the team, and making them better at the games. It's fine to be critical and scrutenize them afterwards, but definitely NOT AT THE GAME.

Am I the only person that feels this way?

-Geoff

McBrace
04-05-2009, 09:06 AM
All I can say is I'm unhappy with the way the team played, I am angry at the officiating, but I am disgusted at the treatment of Carver by some fans in 123.

Chants such as "you don't know what you're doing", and "Go back to Newcastle" were sung, and I was flat out outraged. I see no benefit to those kinds of remarks, and I also think it's silly to suggest he leave after a single loss this season. The last thing we need at this club is the instability of losing our manager.

He picked the same team that I would have picked (i'm undecided on the velez/Harmse issue) and I don't feel like he deserved anything like what he got. Being a supporter is about helping the team, and making them better at the games. It's fine to be critical and scrutenize them afterwards, but definitely NOT AT THE GAME.

Am I the only person that feels this way?

-Geoff

I'm with you...I don't believe it's fair to turn so Quickly after this result.. How soon People forget!:rolleyes:

Nuvinho
04-05-2009, 09:08 AM
sorry, but fans who do stuff like that, don't know Football!! period.

best line I heard from my section (108): "Ljungberg go back to Finland"......hahahaha!!!! I couldn't stop laughing.

ensco
04-05-2009, 09:10 AM
123 starts chants?

LucaGol
04-05-2009, 09:11 AM
I'm pretty sure John Carver is tough enough to deal with a few silly people shouting at him.

The man did manage in England after all.

Kooper
04-05-2009, 09:17 AM
Wow 2 days ago people were singing his praises and threatening Newcastle if they took him back. How quickly people forget. We lost to a team that has done very well and has won three straight for a reason.

Fans need to realize that teams win and lose. I guarentee that we will lose again by a margin of 2-0 or more and there will be idiots who will call for his head.

TFC OZZ
04-05-2009, 09:21 AM
123 starts chants?

My apologies, let me put it into perspective. 10-15 people sitting within 15 meters of Carver all yelling at the top of their lungs. My problem with this is despite the fact that (hopefully) many people don't feel this way, this is the message he is receiving from the fans, because they're the closest and loudest (because of the distance) to him. I got upset and yelled "trust in Carver" as a response, but I felt like it didn't do much good; you could clearly tell that he could hear them. The fact is not that I'm worried about the supporter's groups not supporting Carver, but the "part-time" fans who outnumber us in the stadium that need to learn their shit.

SoccMan
04-05-2009, 09:27 AM
The one thing that bothered me about the performance of the team yesterday was the way they played. They played ugly soccer, every goal kick, and everytime Sutton had the ball in his hands he booted the ball up the field. They never looked to build from the back by keeping the ball on the ground. Sometimes you have no other option but to play the ball in the air from the back, however, yesterday it seems everything went long in the air from the back. Moreover, you would of thought that after getting 4 points on the road in their first two games this team would have played with confidence and not come out flat. Look we have been crap the past two seasons and yesterday we played like the past two seasons and I'm sure fans left the stadium thinking oh oh nothing has changed after that performance, he we go again. Remember this is the MLS it should not take that long to build a decent team and after that performance even though it's just one game because of the past crap seasons people will already assume that nothing has changed, so who do you think some people will blame?

RedsYNWA
04-05-2009, 09:29 AM
If we have a worse season than last year Carver has to be fired PERIOD
I don't care if he is a nice guy yada yada let's judge by results

druid
04-05-2009, 10:02 AM
Not a fan of Carver. Didn't think we should give him another season as he was totally lost for most of the last one. Poor selection, tactics, and substitutions are common place.

No real point in chanting about him at this point of the season.

MrHawk
04-05-2009, 10:04 AM
Don't worry, soon as they start winning again, they will all jump on the Carver bandwagon.

We really need to make TFC Ankle Supports for all the bandwagon jumpers. That can really hurt sometimes.

TFC HSV
04-05-2009, 10:14 AM
All I can say is I'm unhappy with the way the team played, I am angry at the officiating, but I am disgusted at the treatment of Carver by some fans in 123.

Chants such as "you don't know what you're doing", and "Go back to Newcastle" were sung, and I was flat out outraged. I see no benefit to those kinds of remarks, and I also think it's silly to suggest he leave after a single loss this season. The last thing we need at this club is the instability of losing our manager.

He picked the same team that I would have picked (i'm undecided on the velez/Harmse issue) and I don't feel like he deserved anything like what he got. Being a supporter is about helping the team, and making them better at the games. It's fine to be critical and scrutenize them afterwards, but definitely NOT AT THE GAME.

Am I the only person that feels this way?

-Geoff


Wasnt there but people actually said that? thats pretty sad

Calvin
04-05-2009, 10:24 AM
123 starts chants?
1,2,3 4 your mother is a dirty whore.

Bobo
04-05-2009, 10:30 AM
Not a fan of Carver. Didn't think we should give him another season as he was totally lost for most of the last one. Poor selection, tactics, and substitutions are common place.

No real point in chanting about him at this point of the season.

Agreed, I don't see much that suggests he is a quality tactician. When TFC wins, its because our players are on not because of our superior style of play. Tactically we're second best most games. Because he's a sound dude, people are quick to overrate him. As I said elsewhere, he offers little more than Mo did on the field. I'll still chant his name because I like him and I keep waiting to be proven wrong but its been over a full year and I haven't seen much at all.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 10:48 AM
While most of you who don't have me on your ignore list know that I think Carver is a worst coach then Mo ever was, I still would never stand up in a middle of a game and throw him under the bus. The man deserves respect because he is passionate about this team and he means well. In fact, I think he would make an incredible Assistant Coach, someone who is there to rally the troops with his passion.

FluSH
04-05-2009, 10:52 AM
It's pathetic to do this to our own team during the game.... you wanna go off on the coaching fine... do it after the game or on the boards. But at the game?!?! that's some childish bullshit right there...

just fucking sad.

Bobo
04-05-2009, 10:55 AM
While most of you who don't have me on your ignore list know that I think Carver is a worst coach then Mo ever was, I still would never stand up in a middle of a game and throw him under the bus. The man deserves respect because he is passionate about this team and he means well. In fact, I think he would make an incredible Assistant Coach, someone who is there to rally the troops with his passion.

I've been hoping for a demotion to assistant for a long time, but no way he'd take to that.

While I'll agree that jeering Carver is stupid, the same can be said for Velez, a passionate guy who gets it a million times worse.

dantdot
04-05-2009, 10:58 AM
Sure, some of these people are clueless but I understand their frustration after seeing the 100th long ball into the wind.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 11:00 AM
I've been hoping for a demotion to assistant for a long time, but no way he'd take to that.

While I'll agree that jeering Carver is stupid, the same can be said for Velez, a passionate guy who gets it a million times worse.

Yeah I completely agree. I feel bad for any of our players or coaches when they get booed off the field or when they are getting harrassed from our own fans. Duing the game, we need to be behind the team 100%. Hell, it's a simple matter of respecting other human beings.

Rhapido
04-05-2009, 11:28 AM
There are some people out there that think because they paid for their ticket, they have the right to sh*t on the coach or the players at any point in time. Certainly not behaviour that falls within my definition of a "supporter" or even a "fan". Turns my stomach, actually. But I'm not surprised. Look around you and you'll see that respect and loyalty are in short supply these days.

Dub Narcotic
04-05-2009, 11:33 AM
Carver is never afraid to slam players, referees, the league, and so forth. I'm sure he can handle a taste of his own medicine. Every other manager has to face this kind of thing, I don't see why Carver should be immune. It's not like he's ever been successful here.

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 11:41 AM
Carver is never afraid to slam players, referees, the league, and so forth. I'm sure he can handle a taste of his own medicine. Every other manager has to face this kind of thing, I don't see why Carver should be immune. It's not like he's ever been successful here.

I agree with the Carver never being succesful here, but there's a time and a place to discuss that. You don't see Carver throwing guys under the bus in the middle of the game, or Carver turning around to the fans and saying your chants sound horrible today in the middle of a game. Game time is time to support the team. I mean, what happens if we turn around and score 3 goals in the last 5 minutes, what do those fans say then? turn around and start chearing?

TFC OZZ
04-05-2009, 01:58 PM
My problem is not whether or not he should be scrutinized, it's when and where. Down 2-0 at home, you do not sing negative chants towards your own team, it doesn't help our cause. We should get behind them, when they need us the most.

MUFC_Niagara
04-05-2009, 03:07 PM
Wow 2 days ago people were singing his praises and threatening Newcastle if they took him back. How quickly people forget. We lost to a team that has done very well and has won three straight for a reason.

Fans need to realize that teams win and lose. I guarentee that we will lose again by a margin of 2-0 or more and there will be idiots who will call for his head.

You mean we don't win every game and don't play well in every game! This is nonsense.....Carver has to go! Unless we win next week. :rolleyes:

ilikemusic
04-05-2009, 03:18 PM
There are some people out there that think because they paid for their ticket, they have the right to sh*t on the coach or the players at any point in time. Certainly not behaviour that falls within my definition of a "supporter" or even a "fan". Turns my stomach, actually. But I'm not surprised. Look around you and you'll see that respect and loyalty are in short supply these days.

Anybody who payed $200 to watch that shit has the right, nay, the obligation, to yell whatever the fuck the on-field performance deserves.

They arent sitting in the $20 supporters section. They paid out the ass to watch an amateur soccer team play the most pathetic game in franchise history and have every right to take out their frustrations on the person orchestrating that performance.

It was one of the ugliest games i've ever had the misfortune of watching this team play. It was absolutely pathetic from start to finish.


Carver is never afraid to slam players, referees, the league, and so forth. I'm sure he can handle a taste of his own medicine. Every other manager has to face this kind of thing, I don't see why Carver should be immune. It's not like he's ever been successful here.

Exactly. I still dont understand where Carver got all this good will from and I still cant comprehend the 'In Carver We Trust' slogan. What the fuck does anybody trust Carver for? His impeccable MLS track record?

And ya, Carver is a big boy. Im sure he can handle some abuse. And if he cant, then this team is even more fucked than anyone can imagine.

Dirk Diggler
04-05-2009, 04:20 PM
Even though I don't completely agree with the manner in which those guys chose to criticize Carver, I'm content with the fact that there are some guys letting him know that his days of getting a free ride based on his geordie accent maybe numbered. If there are people making banners like "In Carver We Trust" for very little reason, I'm glad that there are people on the other end of the spectrum as well.

ensco
04-05-2009, 07:40 PM
What a bunch of ignoramus fans we have here in Toronto. Can you imagine that a football team's fans would ever start a chant that would criticize a coach in game? Why don't our fans know football etiquette?

Um, maybe because, in fact, this comes with the territory and goes on every day?

I found these in 30 seconds, there were dozens more....

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/overseas/spain/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=international_feed/09/01/12/SOCCER_Spa-Atletico_Madrid.html&TEAMHD=spain
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article3108479.ece
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_6645354
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/oct/03/match.derbycounty
http://www.indiaabroad.com/sports/2006/aug/17china.htm

Jack
04-05-2009, 07:49 PM
Even though I don't completely agree with the manner in which those guys chose to criticize Carver, I'm content with the fact that there are some guys letting him know that his days of getting a free ride based on his geordie accent maybe numbered. If there are people making banners like "In Carver We Trust" for very little reason, I'm glad that there are people on the other end of the spectrum as well.
What does his accent have to do with anything? :noidea:

Rawkus_420
04-05-2009, 07:49 PM
Its cause more than half the people at these games , no little to nothing about the sport....I overheard many comments throughout the game that made me laugh, like whos this #10 on seatle? hes awesome hahaha...he is a great player, but I mean c'mon...and then I overheard ppl commenting on the play, passes, runs ,etc....they dont know fuck all....its probably these same types of people that are treating carver this way.....for them its just a place to be heard because nobody care sto hear them elsewhere...they learn a tidbit of knowledge, like carver used to be at newcastle, and they run with it...I dont know why, but if you're going to do that shit, STAY HOME, we are better off having empty seats instead of asshole fans!

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 07:58 PM
What a bunch of ignoramus fans we have here in Toronto. Can you imagine that a football team's fans would ever start a chant that would criticize a coach in game? Why don't our fans know football etiquette?

Um, maybe because, in fact, this comes with the territory and goes on every day?

I found these in 30 seconds, there were dozens more....

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/overseas/spain/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=international_feed/09/01/12/SOCCER_Spa-Atletico_Madrid.html&TEAMHD=spain
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article3108479.ece
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_6645354
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/oct/03/match.derbycounty
http://www.indiaabroad.com/sports/2006/aug/17china.htm

Ensco, while I agree with you on a lot you say lately, I can't agree here. Do you know how many cars are stolen in a day? Doesn't mean it makes it right for the next thief to steal the next car.

Look, believe me, I think the fans have every right to be pissed. My neighbour scalped tickets for him and his son at 80bucks a piece in the 200 level. Partly because I encouraged him to go watch a game live. He has all the right in the world to be pissed off and I'm fucking embarassed, but I'm not sure disrespecting someone personally is the right thing to do (he obviously has more class then that and I'm sure he took no part in the Carver bashing).

What did Carver ever do to any of these fans that was intentional? How did he ever disrespect these fans on a personal level? It's simple, treat people the way you would expect others to treat you, learned that in Grade 1 I think.

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 07:59 PM
So instead of chanting and singing to help spur on the team, these douchebags were riding Carver during the game?

What fabulous support!

And Dirk...if someone is going to criticize Carver for the sake of criticizing, what exactly does it do? Singing "you don't know what you are doing" 3 games into the season with a 1-1-1- record is stupidity in my opinion.

NateDoGG
04-05-2009, 08:01 PM
its clear carver does not like barret, and is playing favs......

OHARARULES
04-05-2009, 08:06 PM
I don't like that fans chant negative shit at our coach. BUT... maybe its time we as Torontonians change our attitude towards management of any of the Toronto sports teams? After all I have been waiting my whole life for the Leafs to win the Stanley Cup. Just like most leaf fans, win or lose I won't stop going to TFC games and I won't ever stop believing in them. BUT maybe spooking the coach with unhappy fans is not a bad idea. Winning is a priority. The team, looked like shit the last 2 games. Is it a bad idea to let him know how you feel? I wouldnt have chanted at him but I am not disgusted by it. I didnt hear the chant I sit in 222 so it wasn't like the stadium heard it. Maybe some of the players deserved some of that medicine as well. Chanting negatively at the game especially one that we played poorly in probably helps. Carver certainly seemed upset with the way the guys played and maybe some of what he heard from the near by crowd fueled him a bit.


All I can say is I'm unhappy with the way the team played, I am angry at the officiating, but I am disgusted at the treatment of Carver by some fans in 123.

Chants such as "you don't know what you're doing", and "Go back to Newcastle" were sung, and I was flat out outraged. I see no benefit to those kinds of remarks, and I also think it's silly to suggest he leave after a single loss this season. The last thing we need at this club is the instability of losing our manager.

He picked the same team that I would have picked (i'm undecided on the velez/Harmse issue) and I don't feel like he deserved anything like what he got. Being a supporter is about helping the team, and making them better at the games. It's fine to be critical and scrutenize them afterwards, but definitely NOT AT THE GAME.

Am I the only person that feels this way?

-Geoff

s2cazz
04-05-2009, 08:08 PM
It's pathetic to do this to our own team during the game.... you wanna go off on the coaching fine... do it after the game or on the boards. But at the game?!?! that's some childish bullshit right there...

just fucking sad.
might as well put on opposing teams scarves...

"Never let anyone outside the family know what you are thinking."

lol

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2009, 08:17 PM
I don't like that fans chant negative shit at our coach. BUT... maybe its time we as Torontonians change our attitude towards management of any of the Toronto sports teams? After all I have been waiting my whole life for the Leafs to win the Stanley Cup. Just like most leaf fans, win or lose I won't stop going to TFC games and I won't ever stop believing in them. BUT maybe spooking the coach with unhappy fans is not a bad idea. Winning is a priority. The team, looked like shit the last 2 games. Is it a bad idea to let him know how you feel? I wouldnt have chanted at him but I am not disgusted by it. I didnt hear the chant I sit in 222 so it wasn't like the stadium heard it. Maybe some of the players deserved some of that medicine as well. Chanting negatively at the game especially one that we played poorly in probably helps. Carver certainly seemed upset with the way the guys played and maybe some of what he heard from the near by crowd fueled him a bit.

Chanting that Carver should go back to England, because we are having a rough go in our third game of the season, is disgraceful. It's not like we were even 0-0-2 going into the game.

- Scott

Dirk Diggler
04-05-2009, 08:18 PM
So instead of chanting and singing to help spur on the team, these douchebags were riding Carver during the game?

What fabulous support!

And Dirk...if someone is going to criticize Carver for the sake of criticizing, what exactly does it do? Singing "you don't know what you are doing" 3 games into the season with a 1-1-1- record is stupidity in my opinion.

First of all, I did say that I don't agree with the stuff those guys were chanting. The only thing that I agreed with was the fact that there are guys willing to publicly criticize him, which off sets the guys willing to publicly praise him for very little reason.

In addition, he has been here for a little over 3 games now. I'm not going to stop counting last year as a failure for him and the entire team in general just because it was his first year here. Managers in the football world have been given the axe in a far shorter period of time.

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:21 PM
And what a brilliant move that has always shown to be.

As for willingness to publicly criticize him...I see no reason to praise something for the sake of someone's willingness to do it. Only whether it is appropriate, deserved or worth doing.

Dirk Diggler
04-05-2009, 08:27 PM
The positive that I'm taking out of it is the fact that there are people out there who, unlike Leafs fans and such, are not afraid to bash the management and the FO if they feel as if they are getting short changed with the quality of play they paid good money to see. We don't need to be corporate lap dogs to be supporters of the team. As ensco has pointed out already, those guys were hardly the first in the world to bash the manager of their football club.

napoli73
04-05-2009, 08:28 PM
Makes you wonder if these are the same "fans" that give all the rest of the supporter a bad name ie. beer throwers! I must say Carver is a very passionate person but something is definitely wrong with his tactics and team preparation.

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:29 PM
So for the sake of proving we are not corporate lapdogs, let's praise people who show ignorance and acute inability to support the team when they are needed. Excellent. I want in.

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2009, 08:31 PM
Roogsy is on the warpath today! :D

- Scott

Dirk Diggler
04-05-2009, 08:41 PM
So for the sake of proving we are not corporate lapdogs, let's praise people who show ignorance and acute inability to support the team when they are needed. Excellent. I want in.

You can think what ever you want. I'm just glad that there are people out there who don't come on this board and provide us with their game day itinerary seeking our approval as to whether they are true supporters or not. They spent good money on their tickets. They don't have to wave the "In Carver We Trust" flag to be a supporter. Within a reasonable bound, they are free to do whatever they want ... and criticizing an under performing manager is definitely within those bounds (although, as I've already said before, I don't agree with chants like go back to England).

Pachuco
04-05-2009, 08:44 PM
You can think what ever you want. I'm just glad that there are people out there who don't come on this board and provide us with their game day itinerary seeking our approval as to whether they are true supporters or not. They spent good money on their tickets. They don't have to wave the "In Carver We Trust" flag to be a supporter. Within a reasonable bound, they are free to do whatever they want ... and criticizing an under performing manager is definitely within those bounds (although, as I've already said before, I don't agree with chants like go back to England).

ThisDirk speaks the truth. Carefull though, not waving the Carver flag will be held against you in anything else you say around here ;)

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:45 PM
Held against you how? Asking you to be accountable and back up your point?

OMG...the injustice. The inhumanity. :rolleyes:

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2009, 08:46 PM
You can think what ever you want. I'm just glad that there are people out there who don't come on this board and provide us with their game day itinerary seeking our approval as to whether they are true supporters or not. They spent good money on their tickets. They don't have to wave the "In Carver We Trust" flag to be a supporter. Within a reasonable bound, they are free to do whatever they want ... and criticizing an under performing manager is definitely within those bounds (although, as I've already said before, I don't agree with chants like go back to England).

But... then... you're arguing a point that has nothing to do with this thread. The thread isn't about people having the audacity to form their own opinions - it's about a group of nitwits that were chanting at Carver, telling him to go back to England.

If you also agree that such actions are uncalled for, then there is no argument.

- Scott

H Bomb
04-05-2009, 08:53 PM
people talk like the fans bitching means anything at all when it comes to wins....who are these leafs fans who just accept losses....you think they aren't pissed? you think they dont bitch?...I have a huge amount of respect for leafs fans because they haven't won for forty years and they still support their team.

How is chanting negative stuff at Carver helpful? How does it support the team? How does it make a difference on the field? How does it make fans enjoy the game more? Sure you can think it, and talk to your friends about it. But as fans at the stadium its our job to support, and while there are many different types of support, negative chants are never one of them.

BTW, I'll have my "In Carver We Trust" flag at the game next week

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 08:59 PM
people talk like the fans bitching means anything at all when it comes to wins....who are these leafs fans who just accept losses....you think they aren't pissed? you think they dont bitch?...I have a huge amount of respect for leafs fans because they haven't won for forty years and they still support their team.

How is chanting negative stuff at Carver helpful? How does it support the team? How does it make a difference on the field? How does it make fans enjoy the game more? Sure you can think it, and talk to your friends about it. But as fans at the stadium its our job to support, and while there are many different types of support, negative chants are never one of them.

BTW, I'll have my "In Carver We Trust" flag at the game next week

QFFT

Dirk Diggler
04-05-2009, 09:06 PM
No one said its helpful ... although it does show to the FO that there are people who are not willing to take it as it is.

The point is that if you're paying good money to see your team, you have a right to voice your opinion if you're feel as if you're getting ripped off. The typical Leafs fan (within ACC) differs because the result is secondary to most. I hardly imagine them giving enough care about the the poor quality of play to actually criticize the coach. To be honest, after waiting the entire off-season in hopes that the team might have made huge strides and then seeing what we saw yesterday, it took quite a bit for me not to boo them off the pitch at the end of the game.

ensco
04-05-2009, 09:13 PM
Ensco, while I agree with you on a lot you say lately, I can't agree here. Do you know how many cars are stolen in a day? Doesn't mean it makes it right for the next thief to steal the next car.

Look, believe me, I think the fans have every right to be pissed. My neighbour scalped tickets for him and his son at 80bucks a piece in the 200 level. Partly because I encouraged him to go watch a game live. He has all the right in the world to be pissed off and I'm fucking embarassed, but I'm not sure disrespecting someone personally is the right thing to do (he obviously has more class then that and I'm sure he took no part in the Carver bashing).

What did Carver ever do to any of these fans that was intentional? How did he ever disrespect these fans on a personal level? It's simple, treat people the way you would expect others to treat you, learned that in Grade 1 I think.

Pachuco. Respect for your thoughts also. But....

It's not remotely comparable to stealing a car. Free speech is legal. Anyone can dissent without being disloyal.

Fans have every right to get on any player or coach at the stadium. Not in a personal way, of course.

Away from the pitch, btw, I agree with you - that's terrible.

It's all about the context. Right now, Carver still enjoys majority support. So opposing him seems "classless". But when the time comes that he doesn't, there'll be RPB banners and chants calling for his head. It won't seem "classless" then. You can bet on it.

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2009, 09:15 PM
No one said its helpful ... although it does show to the FO that there are people who are not willing to take it as it is.

The point is that if you're paying good money to see your team, you have a right to voice your opinion if you're feel as if you're getting ripped off. The typical Leafs fan (within ACC) differs because the result is secondary to most. I hardly imagine them giving enough care about the the poor quality of play to actually criticize the coach. To be honest, after waiting the entire off-season in hopes that the team might have made huge strides and then seeing what we saw yesterday, it took quite a bit for me not to boo them off the pitch at the end of the game.

Based on what? Leafs fans drove Brian McCabe out of town. They got Paul Maurice and JFJ canned. And that was last season alone.

The list of personnel and players driven out of Toronto by media and fan outcry, is a long list, for better or worse.

This idea that Leafs fans just roll over for management every season, is a myth that started because Leafs fans still support their team, despite not winning the Cup in over 40 years. Some people equate that to being lapdogs. Those people are morons.

Criticizing your team is a sacred right as a fan. But there is a time and a place for it - not sitting behind Carver at our home opener, when we are facing our first loss of a season we are three games into. Just like booing a 22 year old Leafs prospect in Justin Pogge, because he's had a rough night in goal playing for a bad team, is asinine.

- Scott

Bars92
04-05-2009, 09:36 PM
Unless we can get Lawrie Sanchez, I'm sticking by Carver.

Roogsy
04-05-2009, 09:41 PM
Based on what? Leafs fans drove Brian McCabe out of town. They got Paul Maurice and JFJ canned. And that was last season alone.

The list of personnel and players driven out of Toronto by media and fan outcry, is a long list, for better or worse.

This idea that Leafs fans just roll over for management every season, is a myth that started because Leafs fans still support their team, despite not winning the Cup in over 40 years. Some people equate that to being lapdogs. Those people are morons.

Criticizing your team is a sacred right as a fan. But there is a time and a place for it - not sitting behind Carver at our home opener, when we are facing our first loss of a season we are three games into. Just like booing a 22 year old Leafs prospect in Justin Pogge, because he's had a rough night in goal playing for a bad team, is asinine.

- Scott

Wow.

Unbelievably well said. Every point.

I don't understand the sheer ignorance not to be able to see what poor form it was to boo Carver at the home opener or to applaud it in any way.

Rhapido
04-05-2009, 10:03 PM
Anybody who payed $200 to watch that shit has the right, nay, the obligation, to yell whatever the fuck the on-field performance deserves.

They arent sitting in the $20 supporters section. They paid out the ass to watch an amateur soccer team play the most pathetic game in franchise history and have every right to take out their frustrations on the person orchestrating that performance.

It was one of the ugliest games i've ever had the misfortune of watching this team play. It was absolutely pathetic from start to finish.

Sorry, man, but I just don't buy into this entitlement BS. They charge $200 for seats (and $20 for others) based strictly on where your seats are physically located in the stadium vis-a-vis the playing field. That's it. I'm sure the guys in the south end are much more emotionally invested in this team than any of the douches that sit in the prawn sandwich section sipping on their tiny plastic glasses of Merlot. This is sports, guys; sometimes, your team will win, sometimes, they're going to lose. Sometimes, they're gonna play their a$$es off -- they may win, but they may not; other times, they're gonna play flat and the outcome can be equally uncertain. If you want to pay $200 and be assured of a positive result, go watch Mamma Mia.

The team didn't play well yesterday - agreed. I don't think I'd call it their worst game in franchise history. How quickly do we forget some of the doozies they played in the first two seasons (do you remember the 4-0 spanking we got in Game 2 in Foxboro? What about the road game in KC last year where we didn't even register a shot on goal?). Yesterday, they were fairly even statistically with Seattle, cracked a couple off the woodwork and had one goal called back on a very questionable foul on Dichio, while Seattle on the other hand had two chances the whole game, both of which went into the net. But fine, home opener, improved line-up, De Rosario/Serioux homecoming, etc., etc., they should have done much better than they did. Still, they're sitting 1-1-1 after three games. Best start in franchise history. And now Carver's a bum (again)? "Go back to Newcastle!"??! Come on, give it a rest. Save some of that venom for later in the season when (if) the team misses the playoffs for the third consecutive time. In the meantime, support your team (and go watch Mamma Mia!).

Brooker
04-05-2009, 10:06 PM
^^^ +100

McHaggis
04-05-2009, 11:08 PM
I'll wait a little longer than our first loss of the season to start calling for the gaffer to be sacked...maybe after a third or fourth. (<;

VPjr
04-06-2009, 05:55 AM
Unless we can get Lawrie Sanchez, I'm sticking by Carver.

wow...you sure do like you Carver.

I'd gladly take one of 2 CSL coaches as a replacement for Carver...I don't need a big money Euro coach to make me happy. I want someone with experience as a manager (Carver was never more than a caretaker manager for a couple of sides...other than those brief spells, he was always an assistant and probably always would be an assistant).

I'm not a huge fan of shitting on carver or the team at the stadium but they were shit on Saturday so I can understand the frustration. I just finished watching the match online and it was awful. how much of it can be pinned on Carver, I don't know. I prefer to blame the players for Saturday's pathetic display. However, if he doesn't make some changes to the way the team is playing, then the blame goes back to JC and Mo.

I don't think it is a surprise to anyone to know that Carver is on thin ice this season. If he doesn't get the team turned around, he'll go back to being what I think he is most suited for (an assistant for an EPL or Championship side). In JC I most certainly do not trust but I hope he gets the team on the right path because I want my team to be successful. I would prefer to be wrong about him but I don't think I am.

trane
04-06-2009, 06:37 AM
For me everything about the squad including Carver is a question mark. I like what he has expressed as his vision, the team has too deliver. I will waite 10 games and if we do not have a winning record, meaning something like 4-3-3, or fifteen points I will start calling for great change.