Our real game support... (a Columbus review)

[FluSH]

First of all, I'm not going to talk about the sour events that took place on Saturday. Enough has been said, and it has been blown way out of proportion.

Now, I do want to touch on our REAL support.

Like most affiliated supporters (RPB, NEE, etc..) I've been to many TFC roadtrips, and in terms of chanting, this weekend was one of the worst.

What I saw was a lot of first time roadtrippers, friends of friends just looking to party, and people more interested in binge drinking and smoking w33d than actually supporting the team.

When we warm-up and lead chants at tailgates, it's done for a reason - to get you ready for the match. Last Saturday, it had to be the worst chant taligate experience in my history of supporting Toronto FC. People were more interested with drinking, chit chatting, and/or goofing around with a stupid soccer ball than actually trying to learn the lyrics of our chants.

The result:

We were cradling 1-3 chants throughout the whole game. It was truly embarrassing.

If you feel like binge drinking, smoking dope, or goofing off... go somewhere else and don't come to the tailgate. This is not Wasaga beach.

We were a stronger unit at Kansas city with 150 supporters than we were at Columbus with 2000. 5 different handycap chants being started by different people is not my idea of organized support. It's a freaking mess.

There were at least 3 times that Crew supporters were louder than us with chants... and the reason was because they were all united. We were left flatfooted not knowing what to do.

It was pitiful.

Unless we are allowed to bring a megaphone to a stadium, I don't think I will be attending anymore Supporter + Casuals roadtrips. If you are going to do your own thing then there is no need to sit with us (RPB, NEE, etc..) or beside us at games... it's that simple.

-FluSH

P.S. A big kudos to NEE. Without you guys there I think I would have walked out of the "bologna" of a supporter section...

[AL-MO]

I didn't think it was that bad, but I was also at the bottom with all of the drums so I guess I really could tell at times.

EDIT: Yeah RPB and NEE have been working together great at the first couple away games. The biggest thing was having the drums together in my opinion.

[FluSH]

it was horrible... we did more rotation of chants and sounded better with 150 in Kansas, with 200 in Chicago... etc etc

[James Oliphant]

Sounded pretty good to me...but what do I know. I'm not "affiliated".

[AL-MO]

Sounded pretty good to me...but what do I know. I'm not "affiliated".

I don't think he is referring to you James. ;)

[Sonny Cheeba]

i wasn't there. but from what i've seen on youtube so far follows what flush wrote. seven nation army couldn't even be followed cohesively.

but there must be more vids to come, i'm optimistic.

were any of the more "complex" chants done.

[RedRum]

I didn't think it was that bad either, but then again I was standing behind Al-Mo.

[James Oliphant]

I don't think he is referring to you James. ;)

I'm just saying, I don't think it's the disaster FluSH is making it out to be.

But with his attitude toward me, my opinion is bound to be moot in his eyes.

[FluSH]

Sounded pretty good to me...but what do I know. I'm not "affiliated".

well if you know more than 6 chants then I could care less if you are in a SG.

P.S. this is not to bash on those who like to drink, as I know King Dave can drink like an elephant... however the differance is that KD still chants and knows the chants at the game.

[Get In There]

I hear ya but look at it this way...from a 'Supporters' perspective

We came with 19 - and yes, half were there for the party, as well as see the game/experience - but as last year a few were converted and lost their voices (props to "who needs a bail out" chant from one of them)- and like this year these will be the guys invited back.

You want to get more out of casual fans at our house, yes, scalper purchasers, have them get into it 'proper'?

This is a very good way.

And of course - police your own no issues from us

B

[Sonny Cheeba]

sounds like a larger version of 112 last season, a few people in the front follow, but closer to the back you've only got peppered people who know and follow the chants when they can hear them.

i think flush is more just pissed that rather than joining in on the chants at the tailgate, people got hammered and didn't really give a fuck.

[ginkster88]

I met some of you briefly on Saturday... I had put back a few drinks before the game, but I was very disappointed with the attitude of the supporters around me... not singing at all, just standing and sipping their beers while giving me a slightly bemused look, and not even trying to follow along or learn the words. It was quite disappointing, it felt somewhat like the midfield seats at BMO, except they were standing because they had to.

[FluSH]

i think flush is more just pissed that rather than joining in on the chants at the tailgate, people got hammered and didn't really give a fuck.

It wasn't just the tailgate... I went over to the east to conduct chants that were beign led by the middle and it was difficult to get everyone together.

The only chant that I can recollect (there might have been one or two more) that was truly united by the entire group was Dichio24

[colman1860]

The only chant that I can recollect (there might have been one or two more) that was truly united by the entire group was Dichio24

...with added dichios. I'm with you entirely on this subject - the worst is when people who have 3+ beers in them start idiot chants like "Fuck you Columbus [clap clap, clap clap clap]" and it drowns out an actual cohesive chant which shows some creativity.

Why can't we bring megaphones? And why don't we have Capos?

[MUFC_Niagara]

FluSH...it was even worse on right flank. Everytime I tried to get a song going people looked at me like I was retarded. From what I heard it was like this in New York as well. At the tailgate the guys beside where we parked were funneling beers before the game! Not to mention after the game me, Jack, and Canadian_Bhoy tried to get the Hey Columbus, keep the trophy glistenin song going and exactly what you are saying happened.

[Bars92]

may I suggest the use of "songs" over chants?

[tlear]

I also agree with "Get in There".. there were 7 of us except me and a friend it was everyone's first road trip (3 of us ended up outside the gate before the game ended with you btw :) ), but people tried and did alright I thought.

edit were right in the center though, so maybe chants were going better there

[adamdz]

I don't know why but I heard "tfc, tfc, tfc, tfc" quite a bit...

I feel more or less the same way. Although I was more or less in the center so it sounded ok to me, but I could hear that we weren't in sync all the time. After seeing some videos, I could see that it wasn't all peachy, since I could hear chants in the center, and people either a) not being in sync, or b) doing their own thing.

It also kind of got under my skin that people weren't participating during the tailgate, since I am sure many people didn't know much past the most common 5 or so chants.

[Ladies Love Julius James]

FluSH...it was even worse on right flank. Everytime I tried to get a song going people looked at me like I was retarded. From what I heard it was like this in New York as well. At the tailgate the guys beside where we parked were funneling beers before the game! Not to mention after the game me, Jack, and Canadian_Bhoy tried to get the Hey Columbus, keep the trophy glistenin song going and exactly what you are saying happened.



Brutal eh. You tried that Dichio song when you seen him ready to come on and people downright refused to sing it. People just dont like chanting and rather fuck off and do other things

[egoodwin]

that is exactly why Columbus wasn't on my list this year...

I hate these huge road trips

I prefer the 100 or so people roadtrips, where it's all dedicated supporter group members there, where everyone is on the same page is chanting and everything, just like DC, and NE... except NE would have been so much better had I not lost my voice at half time... nothing is worse than being at a road game when everyone around you is on a roll with the chanting and you can hardly make a noise

I think from now on to avoid the messed up chants, supporter groups should demand their away sections to be pure supporter groups, not random stragglers... for chanting cohesion and accountability... if person x from Toronto wants to go to DC or Columbus or what not, go ahead they're welcome to come, but they won't be in the supporter groups section unless they are on the SGs lists...

[ginkster88]

The right side was pathetic. I was to the left for the first half, which was okay, and then I moved to the right after half (found people I met at the tailgate) and it was even worse... after the goal and the ensuing scrum I ended up in the middle, where it sounded great, but upon watching some videos it is clear that there was little overall cohesiveness.

[Suds]

It wasn't just the tailgate... I went over to the east to conduct chants that were beign led by the middle and it was difficult to get everyone together.

The only chant that I can recollect (there might have been one or two more) that was truly united by the entire group was Dichio24

I can understand your frustration ... I was in 114 and watched you busting your ass to get people on that side to sing in unison with the supporters in the middle ... a number of us were doing our best to match you and get others around us to join ... it just sucked we were still so outnumbered by people either not interested in signing/chanting or at least not as a collective group.

your hard work does not go unnoticed or appreciated ...

[Get In There]

I also agree with "Get in There".. there were 7 of us except me and a friend it was everyone's first road trip (3 of us ended up outside the gate before the game ended with you btw :) ), but people tried and did alright I thought.

edit were right in the center though, so maybe chants were going better there

We were in the far right - 113 right down front.

Another cool thing was that twice, buds ran into friends in the stands they didn't know were big TFC fans.....good time reunion singing.

B

[billyfly]

I'm guilty of being hammered but I was still singing.

[Get In There]

I can understand your frustration ... I was in 114 and watched you busting your ass to get people on that side to sing in unison with the supporters in the middle ... a number of us were doing our best to match you and get others around us to join ... it just sucked we were still so outnumbered by people either not interested in signing/chanting or at least not as a collective group.

your hard work does not go unnoticed or appreciated ...

From 113s perspective we sang what we heard..I think it's due to the park, our positioning and the simple nature of sound waves.

Dichio worked because even the casual knew when that was..even if they might not have know all the words at first.

Comes with time...growing pains

IMHO

B

[el rojo fanatico]

may I suggest the use of "songs" over chants?
Most here would love that but when we can't get people to even chant...good luck on getting them to sing.
Flush was over on the right trying to get anybody to pick up chants and it was useless. Even when we did the bounce, I could only see the few of us that were in the rows right around the drum getting into it. In KC we had the supporters all on the same page and it was one of the best atmosphere's we have had on the road ( up there with Montreal). What I don't get is the "joke" some on road think away support is. To me, it is MORE important to be on your game when you are away from home

[OneLoveOneEric]

can I make a sort of silly suggestion?
I find the unintuitive naming of the chants really confusing. I know them all by sound, and sing them at the games, but "the bounce", "forza", "massive", etc are useless descriptors for people that aren't "in the know". This could be intentional, but if it isn't I suggest that more self-explanatory names would help chant knowledge spread.
Only my opinion.

[tlear]

Yeah.. coordinating this many people without bullhorns is a pain.. also many people were interested but their voices gave out I think. Also jumping and chanting is draining without much practice people were probably exhausted pretty fast.. I thought it was MUCH better then last year in Columbus though, maybe because were on the right side that time.

[BFin]

I thought it was fine.
As did my lack of a voice now.
To each their own.

[Jeff s]

I might be off topic a bit,
I wasnt there, but sadly I can see where your coming from Flush. I find this to be a problem in our section, WITHOUT the casuals. To many people standing around having a drink, taking no part of the action.

What suggestions do you guys have to get these guys involved?

Also to keep everyone on the same page, if megaphones are allowed on away trips, you should take it for any game possible. Which btw, are we, or any other supporters group getting a new megaphone that can actually be.... well heard?

Also maybe convince these guys and all supporters to stay after the match, and practice during a reserve match.


supporter groups should demand their away sections to be pure supporter groups, not random stragglers.
Fully agree. I remember watching a Pacos vs Braga match, Braga fans were the away team and they separated the casual fans and the ultras in the away section. I dont see it all that often in Portugal, but I did like how Braga managed to do that. The casuals were sitting and the ultras were next to them doing their thing. Thats how it should be.

[tfctillidie]

i hope the home opener will be a different story

[ginkster88]

Home opener will be:

T-F-C T-F-C T-F-C one third of the time, This Is Our House (clap clap clap clap clap) another third, and sitting on of hands by 90% of BMO when the bunker does a more elaborate song for the other third.

[tfctillidie]

Home opener will be:

T-F-C T-F-C T-F-C one third of the time, This Is Our House (clap clap clap clap clap) another third, and sitting on of hands by 90% of BMO when the bunker does a more elaborate song for the other third.

sad but true...I was on west side of BMO trying to get everyone to chant along with whatever the bunker is chanting so we can get the whole west side and hopefully gets carried through out but only a handful participated and one lady told me sit down :mad:

[Ratven]

I think like everything coming out of Columbus, Flush is exaggerating a bit. I would've agreed with him immediately after the game to be honest... but I talked to a number of Columbus fans who sat at midfield, and they all told me that we were quite a bit louder than the Nordecke, which was very loud when I heard them through our own chants.

Honestly I was very frustrated, I was surrounded by a lot of drunk guys that didn't know what the hell was going on and weren't interested in participating at all... on top of that various sections weren't joining in and doing their own thing, as well as I couldn't even hear Jack and crew a few rows below me because of ambient noise.

But if we were loud, then it can't be all that bad, regardless if the number of chants wasn't as diverse. The more people involved, the simpler the chants have to be. I would've loved to see Sloop TFC, or a bunch of the other new ones, but there's no chance with a majority of new people. I did have a few good rounds at the hotel with TFC Niagara though :)

Either way, yeah, I wouldn't expect much from the giant road trips... that's why I prefer the smaller ones.

[Blazer]

^ Tell her that her padded sofa at home is more comfortable than her plastic seat at BMO and that she should stand and support if/when in attendance, otherwise she should fuck off and park her ass back home.

[el rojo fanatico]

Yeah.. coordinating this many people without bullhorns is a pain.. also many people were interested but their voices gave out I think. Also jumping and chanting is draining without much practice people were probably exhausted pretty fast.. I thought it was MUCH better then last year in Columbus though, maybe because were on the right side that time.
Come on bro, what are we all seniors? You don't need a megaphone to look somebody straight in the eye and get them to pick up a song but too many people will just look away. It just shows a lack of understanding of the purpose of away support

[smeghead]

One of the reasons why i didnt go, as well as money shortage. And why i wont go to NY.I wonder if our home game tailgate is gonna be as boring as alot of last years was. It turned into just some social chat area and food court. Tried some chanting and everyone just looking at you funny.

[Manutd #1]

I am not sure what is going on her, alot people here are very disappointing almost sounding as though they are better then others and it is their team and unless you know every chant from every group your less of a fan. I was in section 113 I agree there wasn't many great chants but everyone was loud and I saw someone dunno who he was leading the chants as best he could and the majority of the people were at least trying to follow along, but I mean if you do not know the chant your not going to learn it in 2 seconds. Maybe there needs to be a better way to get the word out, i am not sure what that is but the newspaper thing got organzied very well and was done by almost all.

what bugs me is the people saying basically if you dont know all the chants dont come, you think because you learn all the chants your a bigger or better fan, that is not true I do not know every chant but i was paying attention to people trying to lead and I lost my voice does that make me less of a fan, i travelled 7 hours just like many others not just to party ( i can do that in to anytime) but to support my team.
and to say people who aren't in your opinion real supporters should sit away from the fans is just narrow minded so because someone doesnt know all the chants and doesnt come to every outing they should sit with columbus fans and not fellow tfc fans common guys how bout we try to figure out a way to make casual fans get it more, and not try to alienate people from the group.

sorry for rambling on just some of the things on here are a little off, i mean tfc and supports of tfc are still pretty new it will take time for complete unity. Also not sure who recorded the game but watching it on tv was amazing the game sounded like a european game great atmosphere i think it is amazing that over 1500 people travel over 500 miles to see a game

[Corcai]

I agree with Flush, the first match I brought the wife to was the 4-0 win over Dallas FC. Granted we did not have the chants down pat but we caught on pretty quick.

It's not like we had to ignore the run of the match, Flush and 112 made it pretty easy to watch the match and sing our lungs out.

It's been 2 1/2 years of those willing to lead chants vs those who would just like to start an "ARGOOOS" chant at their first match.

It's been debated before, but for fucks sake, what if for one match everyone got on the same page for chants?

P.S I was watching the Columbus game from home and coordinated or not, you guys/gals were F**king awesome.

[alexintoronto]

There are people who don't like big flags waving the whole game, don't like smoke, don't like singing/chanting the whole game - who simply don't like that style of support. There are others who embrace it and think it should be taken to another level. Why cause friction by trying to force these two groups into one area?

2 separate areas is the best option.

[michal]

hi guys, I wouldn't like to cut in (though I am), but I have a question in need for a fast response, cause my curiosity is reaching limits. I've seen some photos from Columbus and noticed you did kind of "newspaper" performance. Could you tell what it was and where it came from?
cheers

[alexintoronto]

hi guys, I wouldn't like to cut in (though I am), but I have a question in need for a fast response, cause my curiosity is reaching limits. I've seen some photos from Columbus and noticed you did kind of "newspaper" performance. Could you tell what it was and where it came from?
cheers

It was more interesting than watching the cup presentation:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=11405

[ginkster88]

There are people who don't like big flags waving the whole game, don't like smoke, don't like singing/chanting the whole game - who simply don't like that style of support. There are others who embrace it and think it should be taken to another level. Why cause friction by trying to force these two groups into one area?

2 separate areas is the best option.

Great point. I'm young and full of piss and vinegar and I love the flags and smoke and mayhem, but I can definitely understand why others might not.

[Manutd #1]

I agree with Flush, the first match I brought the wife to was the 4-0 win over Dallas FC. Granted we did not have the chants down pat but we caught on pretty quick.

It's not like we had to ignore the run of the match, Flush and 112 made it pretty easy to watch the match and sing our lungs out.

It's been 2 1/2 years of those willing to lead chants vs those who would just like to start an "ARGOOOS" chant at their first match.

It's been debated before, but for fucks sake, what if for one match everyone got on the same page for chants?

P.S I was watching the Columbus game from home and coordinated or not, you guys/gals were F**king awesome.

yea i totally agree with you it would be crazy if everyone in the crowd sang like manutd sings glory glory man united or liverpool sings never walk alone, but i think we need to find away that everyone even casual fans can get into it. Just a thought for home games it may be stupid but im trying to think outside the box would there be a way to but on the big board at the end of the game some song/chant the whole crowd could see and sing together? i could have sworn i saw this at a Liverpool game(could be wrong) anyway just a thought in stead of complaining what can make it better, because the more fans the better for everyone.

P.s. dichio chant sounded amazing on TV it may not have sounded great at teh stadium(i thought it was good) but on tv is was great just made me proud man

[michal]

It was more interesting than watching the cup presentation:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=11405

thanks, been pretty blind not to notice that thread. Great job anyway, I mean - For the MLs ;)

[el rojo fanatico]

How about some of these "casual" supporters reach out to us and try to pick up on what other supporters are doing. I know we try every match to include as many supporters into the atmosphere but it takes SOME effort on their part.
Again, away support is special ( I care less whats happens at BMO, there are 20,000 of us) we are surrounded by the home support and it is the whole point to make your presence felt if not to try to out duel the home supporters. I can't see supporters travelling all the way to a road game just to watch it? I can do that at home. You go on away trips to bring every ounce of support you can and leave it all at the ground

[Cristiano14]

I was there, but not in the supporters sections, I was more towards the middle. So I had more of a third party view of the whole thing.
If you were unfamiliar with the supporters groups and the chants, then it would seem like we did a pretty decent job. But if you know the chants and are used to the good support then it looked pretty bad, there really was only a few very basic chants done all game. Unfortunately, many of the great more complex chants that I've seen made in other threads, were not done at all. The bailout chant wasn't bad though. Also there were a few times where chanting was either non existant or very low, and sadly the columbus supporters started "we chant hear you" chants which was pretty sad.
Huge respect to whoever put together the newspaper tifo it looked very impressive.
Also the smoke looked pretty cool for a bit, but it really got out of hand.
Anyway, when a huge roadtrip like this gets a lot of publicity a ton of people who are just looking to screw around, get wasted etc. will always come.

[ilikemusic]

I wont say anything more than, this thread is exactly why I choose not to 'align' myself with any supporters groups.

[Manutd #1]

i actually was in the middle of the stadium for last years 1st game with columbus and yes there were more peopl but watching the south section after about th 65 min was bad, they were quiet almost asleep, i am not sure why im sure it was "casual fans" right, or maybe the fact thart tfc was playing like crap but i know even some random tfc fan was yelling at the south section(he was definatly drunk) about them being so quiet and whether your winning or losing u stand up proud. I am not sure what happned there but this year the atmosphere was great

[Suljazz]

Honestly I was very frustrated, I was surrounded by a lot of drunk guys that didn't know what the hell was going on and weren't interested in participating at all... on top of that various sections weren't joining in and doing their own thing, as well as I couldn't even hear Jack and crew a few rows below me because of ambient noise.
\


Me and my friends were sitting directly behind you at the game, i hope that the "ambient noise" or the "drunk guys that didn't know what the hell was going on" are not references to how my friends or i supported the team this weekend.

Furthermore on this take, I went down to Columbus with a great group of guys from k-w, one of them who is not RPB, a few of us who have been to a handful of games at BMO, and a few very loyal seasons tickets holders and long time RPB members. This was the second Columbus trip for a few of us, and like last year which was my first TFC experience, I had an absolute blast.

I had a blast getting drunk as fuck, singing and chanting my ass off, and really enjoying getting away to support the club that i have supported since that first trip to Columbus. All of us, and I can support this based on our seven person van ride home, sang our voices off to the point that we could barely speak the next morning and were chewing on Halls to salvage whatever was leftover from our vocal chords from saturday afternoon.

Was the group disorganized in the chants on saturday? I say not any more disorganized as it sounds at BMO... No. I say if you walked away from Columbus and feel disappointed with the support that TFC fans showed, or disappointed with the experience you had in Columbus, then I feel bad for you. The argument that smaller roadtrips have seemed more organized and the chanting was more cohesive is silly to entertain... BMO seats over 20,000 FANS, and to think that magically the stadium will shrink or be filled with just the "DIE HARDS" or the "ORGANIZED CHANTERS", or to think that road trips would be remedied by not allowing non-registered supporters to join is just foolishness... it will stunt the growth of the group, and not allow the group to tap into those minds that are just getting turned onto the the RPB, the TFC, and soccer in Canada as a whole.

thats all i got.

[james]

You know what we were dam loud, but i couldnt here half the chants Flush was trying to start because everyone around was screamming and yelling. The problem isnt that we arent loud, the problem is we aren;t loud together.

if anyone saw the game on TV you can only here TFC fans singing a few times. We had a few moments early in the game and at the 24th minute. But from like the 25th till the 83rd minute all you can here is Columbus fans singing much louder then us because you can actually here what columbus is singing, where all we are doing is screamming and yelling and cant make out what we are singing. Then you could here us when we scored and a bit at the end. But Columbus fans were louder and more organized for like 90% of that game.

Problem that TFC fans have had from day 1 is why the fuck are people always singing like 3 different songs at the same time. This goes for home and away games. If Columbus can do it why the fuck cant we?

We seriously gotta work something out to find a way to get people to sing together, this disorganized chanting is nothing new.

[Whoop]

The most frustrating part was one song was started at the bottom and others at the top of 115-116 started their own thing.

It could have been and should have been way better. Too many people treating the road trip like it was spring break.

Smaller road trips it is.

[Pachuco]

I can appreciate you guys wanting better support from people that go down, but for me it's enough that they put on a red jersey and make the never ending trip to Columbus. That in itself is supporting the team. Some people don't like to chant, some people get too drunk by the time they get there. Oh well, they're still supporting the team by being there. The alternative is to have reds spread out all over the stadium, that can't possibly be the better option?

Again, I understand the dissapointment, but not everybody who makes the trip is a hard core supporter. You're efforts Flush probably didn't go to waste, I'm sure you may have turned some part time supporters into hard core supporters, so in time it will get better I'm sure. Right now the team is new, and alot of people are still discovering "how" to be a supporter.

[cmonyoureds]

i drank before the game, during and after, probably far too much for one day
that does not make me "not a supporter"
i drank from that funnel with people i'd never met before, who treated me like an old buddy 'cause i wore red.
that does not make me "not a supporter"
i sang my ass off and participated in about 80% of the songs/chants. because that is less than 100%
that does not make me "not a supporter"

if i wanted to control the actions of everyone around me, make sure everyone was on MY page, and only had fun how i wanted them too,
does that make me a supporter?

[Yalomed]

I don't know. I streamed it so to me you guys sounded pretty good even though the playbook I agree, was pretty thin. If it's the aim to have the majority of the whole end like in Columbus singing in unison then I think there needs to be more resources commited by the SGs than just 1 dude going nuts. Have 2 or 3 capos in total trying to capture all the scattered voices in the area who know the songs but are simply drowned out because of lack of organization.

Again I wasn't there but if I was I'd definitely be pissed too if I wasn't sitting near you because I've been on roadtrips like Chicago last July and Montreal, much smaller, where I drank and sang my ass off. What else am I going to do there take pictures so I can download them onto Facebook? It's crazy. Whatever, fans who think they're at a Leafs game you can never avoid. If singing in unison is such an issue then I think there needs to be some structure in place to facilitate such a large group when presented with such.

[Troll]

i drank before the game, during and after, probably far too much for one day
that does not make me "not a supporter"
i drank from that funnel with people i'd never met before, who treated me like an old buddy 'cause i wore red.
that does not make me "not a supporter"
i sang my ass off and participated in about 80% of the songs/chants. because that is less than 100%
that does not make me "not a supporter"

if i wanted to control the actions of everyone around me, make sure everyone was on MY page, and only had fun how i wanted them too,
does that make me a supporter?


I have to agree with this 100%. Some of you guys need to get a grip. If I go down with some guys who are casuals, but enjoy the game day experience, put their gear on and take in the atmosphere should I ask them to sit on the other side of the section? Not a fucking chance.

And comparing the organization of their smaller supporters groups to ours when we're the ones travelling seems like comparing apples to oranges.

[Jack]

The thing is, for me, I know it can be frustrating, but little by little, more of these people will "get it" and start to learn the songs and chants. If you're not there to help them learn, Flush, then you're doing the support for your team a disservice, in my eyes. If you really want to give your all for TFC, then putting up with people not knowing the chants for the few gold nuggets you will find amongst them should be just one more thing you do as a supporter. 9 of 10 might think you're crazy, but one of them might be the next Flush ;)

[adamdz]

Flush, people like you help others see the light, Jack is right. If I hadn't gone to Columbus last year, I probably wouldn't be here today. I wrote up a whole rant about what pissed me off in Columbus, but in the end everyone makes up their own mind about what they are gonna do, just have to accept that and go with it. Just wish there were less drunk dbags trying to start the same 2 songs for 90 minutes (even when they sing them wrong).

[james]

I don't know. I streamed it so to me you guys sounded pretty good even though the playbook I agree, was pretty thin. If it's the aim to have the majority of the whole end like in Columbus singing in unison then I think there needs to be more resources commited by the SGs than just 1 dude going nuts. Have 2 or 3 capos in total trying to capture all the scattered voices in the area who know the songs but are simply drowned out because of lack of organization.

Again I wasn't there but if I was I'd definitely be pissed too if I wasn't sitting near you because I've been on roadtrips like Chicago last July and Montreal, much smaller, where I drank and sang my ass off. What else am I going to do there take pictures so I can download them onto Facebook? It's crazy. Whatever, fans who think they're at a Leafs game you can never avoid. If singing in unison is such an issue then I think there needs to be some structure in place to facilitate such a large group when presented with such.

i think we need more capos. Flush cant do it all himself. That said i dont know if i could be that guy, but maybe some other people could. Ive seen videos of some clubs in europe where they got like 6 capos behiond the net communicating to each other what song to sing next and then sending that message to each section in front of them. Gets everyone on the same page.

but ya i dont know, just throwing ideas out there.

[Ratven]

Me and my friends were sitting directly behind you at the game, i hope that the "ambient noise" or the "drunk guys that didn't know what the hell was going on" are not references to how my friends or i supported the team this weekend.



Are you the guy that spilled like 3 drops of beer on me and then apologized a million times for it? The time you spent apologizing could have been spent chanting and singing!!!

:D

I'm just messing around, no I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the 3 rows or so in front of me, where no one was chanting, or chanting something completely different, one dude kept turning around, looking up at you guys or the scoreboard and drunkenly pointing for no reason... etc. I actually really enjoyed you being there, because you knew all the words and were singing the whole time.

[Detroit_TFC]

I was over in 116/far right section. I literally could not make out a lot of the chants. I could hear the drum fine but even the section next to us sounded like mumbles. There were more than one occasion were we clearly doing a different chant than the other sections. It made me cringe.

I know it may be a level of organization beyond our capacity but for these big contingent trips, we really need a capo in each section calling out the chant, keeping people coordinated, calling out the slackers (Boris did this with gusto in KC and it helped), etc.

The thing that really pissed me off during the game was all the people hanging out along the top railing, treating it like the beer garden. IMHO that just signaled a sense of disinterest. Why travel 7 hours then treat it like you're going to the mall? Sorry to vent but this has been on my mind since Saturday.

Having got my bile out, I want to thank the away team for the hard work in putting this and all away trips together. It's a gigantic task.

[RedWookie]

Re: Learning the chants;

I think Flush(?), is making a songbook. When it comes out, take it to BMO and see if they will print copies and include them in the programs or just hand them out so everybody has a chance to follow along.

[Cashcleaner]

that is exactly why Columbus wasn't on my list this year...

I hate these huge road trips

I prefer the 100 or so people roadtrips, where it's all dedicated supporter group members there, where everyone is on the same page is chanting and everything, just like DC, and NE... except NE would have been so much better had I not lost my voice at half time... nothing is worse than being at a road game when everyone around you is on a roll with the chanting and you can hardly make a noise

I think from now on to avoid the messed up chants, supporter groups should demand their away sections to be pure supporter groups, not random stragglers... for chanting cohesion and accountability... if person x from Toronto wants to go to DC or Columbus or what not, go ahead they're welcome to come, but they won't be in the supporter groups section unless they are on the SGs lists...

I think I gotta agree with most of what you're saying. I went to KC and had the time of my life - mostly because I knew that the people in front, behind, and on each side were going to put a good effort into supporting the team. Sure enough, even with two hundred or so TFC supporters we totally killed the opposition in Kansas.

As for Columbus, I took a pass on it this year because I knew the guys like you, me, and most of the others here would only be part of the minority. I understand that our primary reason for going on any road trip is to show our support and sing and cheer for the boys, but I'm honest enough to say I go for the overall good times and fun to be had with my fellow supporters in the stands and outside the park.

[Cambridge_Red]

I agree with you Flush but lets remember the positives here.. RPB + NEE = WIN the unity was sick and will only get better. This is our third year and we are getting better and better. Yes it sucks having tourists but thats the way it is and we have to be able to get these people motivated enough to sing with us. We can't get too ahead of ourselves either were still years away from Barra Brava IMO so lets keep focused and not get too frustrated with a few tenderbreasts who refuse to sing.

Just my $.02

[grimm]

My throat is still fubar. However, I still like the full look of that south end with the casual fan, who probably dropped an avg of $350 to come and watch the club. I'm not bothered by either view. I do think that all those people who showed up should be appreciated and not shunned. Just my opinion, but I don't think anyone is in the wrong, n'or do I see it as a loss.

[grimm]

I love seeing my favorite band in a club with hardcore fans, but there are plus' to an arena show.


The Hip- btw :drinking::yum::canada:

[FluSH]

I think like everything coming out of Columbus, Flush is exaggerating a bit. I would've agreed with him immediately after the game to be honest... but I talked to a number of Columbus fans who sat at midfield, and they all told me that we were quite a bit louder than the Nordecke, which was very loud when I heard them through our own chants.

Honestly I was very frustrated, I was surrounded by a lot of drunk guys that didn't know what the hell was going on and weren't interested in participating at all... on top of that various sections weren't joining in and doing their own thing, as well as I couldn't even hear Jack and crew a few rows below me because of ambient noise.

But if we were loud, then it can't be all that bad, regardless if the number of chants wasn't as diverse. The more people involved, the simpler the chants have to be. I would've loved to see Sloop TFC, or a bunch of the other new ones, but there's no chance with a majority of new people. I did have a few good rounds at the hotel with TFC Niagara though :)

Either way, yeah, I wouldn't expect much from the giant road trips... that's why I prefer the smaller ones.

This is exactly why I was frustrated... those who were at Kansas city know how much better and unified we were. Beign loud with "TFC clap clap clap..." is not what supporter groups going on their 3rd season should be proud of.

[FluSH]

You know what we were dam loud, but i couldnt here half the chants Flush was trying to start because everyone around was screamming and yelling. The problem isnt that we arent loud, the problem is we aren;t loud together.


Thank You

[KdotOdot]

Fact of the matter is that 200 supporters will sound better than 2000 casuals.

3 SGs peppered into a sea of casuals.

Rojo said it best, these people have to reach out to us and want to belong, not just look at us as a party monster running wild.

I'll say it again and again until my throat is fucking sore. What do we expect when we don't have a SINGLE MAIN SG.

I know I know it'll take some time but if the SGs aren't supporting the All for One attitude themselves how can we expect a bunch of lush drunks to follow along.

[Heathen]

I agree with you to a degree Flush, our fans weren't as loud or coordinated as I'd expected and for all the same reasons mentioned elsewhere but there is one thing I think you should consider. Instead of locating yourself in the middle of the mob why don't you go to the back of the section, its a lot easier to hear and follow someone singing from behind than someone facing you trying to battle against all the noise already going toward the pitch.

[Brooker]

when all is said and done, i have nothing but respect for the people who went down.

1,500ish traveling supporters is fucking fantastic.... especially in this league.

now, bring on Seattle!

[denime]

Fact of the matter is that 200 supporters will sound better than 2000 casuals.

3 SGs peppered into a sea of casuals.

Rojo said it best, these people have to reach out to us and want to belong, not just look at us as a party monster running wild.

I'll say it again and again until my throat is fucking sore. What do we expect when we don't have a SINGLE MAIN SG.

I know I know it'll take some time but if the SGs aren't supporting the All for One attitude themselves how can we expect a bunch of lush drunks to follow along.


BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Say what you want, but until we have one main SG, we will always have same problems.

What we need is at least a name for TFC supporters, instead of TFC Supporters United, etc.
RPB is not representing TFC supporters, nor U-sector or NEE. These SG’s represent themselves as individual groups doing their own thing and than we wonder why we can’t get unison and unity in the stands.

That we can get unity was clearly shown with Newspapers Tifo, it was kept in members’ only forums, communicated and organized very well between SG’s representatives, executed like no other tifo before.

So, yes we can ;) work together when we put our own agendas behind and look at the big picture called TFC Supporters ALL for ONE!!

We need main SG as umbrella for all existing SG's that represents TFC Supporters, even though RPB, NEE, U-Sector, etc. have different approach how to run their own group, on a game day we go out to support TFC as ONE SG (name it however you want).

[Stencils]

I think some supporters should try attending a match while 'dry' and see if they still enjoy it. I feel like that's a good test of whether or not you actually want to be a part of things or are just interested in getting drunk.

[Blazer]

^ here here...

[Shaughno]

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Say what you want, but until we have one main SG, we will always have same problems.

What we need is at least a name for TFC supporters, instead of TFC Supporters United, etc.
RPB is not representing TFC supporters, nor U-sector or NEE. These SG’s represent themselves as individual groups doing their own thing and than we wonder why we can’t get unison and unity in the stands.

That we can get unity was clearly shown with Newspapers Tifo, it was kept in members’ only forums, communicated and organized very well between SG’s representatives, executed like no other tifo before.

So, yes we can ;) work together when we put our own agendas behind and look at the big picture called TFC Supporters ALL for ONE!!

We need main SG as umbrella for all existing SG's that represents TFC Supporters, even though RPB, NEE, U-Sector, etc. have different approach how to run their own group, on a game day we go out to support TFC as ONE SG (name it however you want).


I think some supporters should try attending a match while 'dry' and see if they still enjoy it. I feel like that's a good test of whether or not you actually want to be a part of things or are just interested in getting drunk.


Both of you, bang fucking on. Personally, I can admit I do like to get drunk at SOME games, but usually road trips rather than home games. Most home games I'm as sober as a :stogey: can get. :lol: I don't buy beer in the stands at BMO, but that's my choice.

The Cauldren, Section 8, etc. Those are similar templates to what we could aim for in Unity. Having all the supporters on the same page on game day, regardless of which group they belong to. Two weeks in a row now, I've seen RPB and NEE get along better in the stands than I've ever seen. Nobody was trying to 'start their chants' or refusing to sing someone elses songs. It was pure unity and it showed, especially in KC.

Untill we have that kind of bond with all the supporters at BMO, we won't be able to see the improvement we WANT to see.

My $0.02 for what it's worth.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

"Say what you want, but until we have one main SG, we will always have same problems."



cant argue with that!

[brad]

Home opener will be:

T-F-C T-F-C T-F-C one third of the time, This Is Our House (clap clap clap clap clap) another third, and sitting on of hands by 90% of BMO when the bunker does a more elaborate song for the other third.

To be fair - there are people in the rest of the stadium that do want to join in on these songs, the bunker doesn't hold them long enough for them to catch. I sit with a fairly large group of people that fall into this category. By the time we've picked up what you are signing, you've moved on.

Sound does not travel well in BMO.

[brad]

Re: Learning the chants;

I think Flush(?), is making a songbook. When it comes out, take it to BMO and see if they will print copies and include them in the programs or just hand them out so everybody has a chance to follow along.

Won't work. I've seen song sheets handed out at BMO for TFC, I've seen it done at Canada games. Didn't work in either case. People will join when properly lead by example, not because someone handed them a song sheet.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Flush you said it. Bullhorn. You were holding chants long enough for all sides to catch on but they were doing their own songs because they didn't have the patience to listen for 2 seconds...

[Fort York Redcoat]

Won't work. I've seen song sheets handed out at BMO for TFC, I've seen it done at Canada games. Didn't work in either case. People will join when properly lead by example, not because someone handed them a song sheet.

Yes and No. It won't get them to sing but it will get those who want to sing to sing properly. Don't be dissing the work if it gets more people to play.:canada:

[brad]

Yes and No. It won't get them to sing but it will get those who want to sing to sing properly. Don't be dissing the work if it gets more people to play.:canada:

I have lots of people in my section that want to and do sing. We do tend to do the standards though like "When the Red's Go Marching In", "7 Nation Army", "Dichio24", that sort of thing. When song sheets got passed out during a TFC game, they got thrown on the ground and people sung the ones they knew.

[BuSaPuNk]

Yeah without pure unison it won't happen to the standards that we want. As far as Tourists, I came with three. And I think we now have about 2 that are really intrested in getting invovled. Just something that we still need to proactively get more membership and people invovled. If we could get the supporters groups to agree to a standardized list of chants and songs and not do our own thing it would go along way to getting the whole group together in the stands.

[Torcida]

if person x from Toronto wants to go to DC or Columbus or what not, go ahead they're welcome to come, but they won't be in the supporter groups section unless they are on the SGs lists...
So you want to me join a SG or I'm not allowed in the supporters section at away trips anymore? I'm not going to join a SG, don't question the support of non- SG members please.

[daner90]

I have to agree with Flush on this one and that was my last trip to C-bus

I stood section 114 and 115 and it was a mess, despite the best efforts of Jack, Boris and Flush nothing was working and most people could care less someone was trying to get chants going...

[KdotOdot]

So you want to me join a SG or I'm not allowed in the supporters section at away trips anymore? I'm not going to join a SG, don't question the support of non- SG members please.

Since most away support is composed of SGs you should try to join in. Without the SGs it would be you and 3 friends. All support is appreciated as long as it's support and not drunken silence.

[T-Bird]

I watched at home and I thought you guys sounded pretty good...I agree that the variety was definately not there. From what I could hear, the same chants were being repeated and it got a little annoying to listen to atfer a while.

I don't know if blaming people who are not affiliated with a supporters group is the right thing to do though. Everyone has a right to be there and as a member of the RPB's I don't even know all the new chants yet...I haven't heard any of them...but I also haven't been to a game yet...so...my fault...I guess.

[Ratven]

I think some supporters should try attending a match while 'dry' and see if they still enjoy it. I feel like that's a good test of whether or not you actually want to be a part of things or are just interested in getting drunk.

I think this is the overriding problem.. and especially with Columbus.

[Pookie]

Re: Learning the chants;

I think Flush(?), is making a songbook. When it comes out, take it to BMO and see if they will print copies and include them in the programs or just hand them out so everybody has a chance to follow along.

I would suggest a series of YouTube(esq) videos and/or mp3 downloads would help.

The "Gameday" page on TFC website has links to both player and team chants but they are from season 1 and don't include any of the newer ones.

If you really want a chant to gain traction throughout the stadium, people need to come to the match with it already in their heads.

Use the medium available to reach a broader audience and I think you'll have more success.

[Phil]

I think some supporters should try attending a match while 'dry' and see if they still enjoy it. I feel like that's a good test of whether or not you actually want to be a part of things or are just interested in getting drunk.

I am going to agree to this as well. It really should sort peoples feelings out on wether they are there for the team, or just the party. It was pretty evident that a lot of people wanted the party last weekend.

[olegunnar]

Hard to blame them 100% though since it's pretty obvious a lot of people are getting conflicting messages.

What does it mean to be a supporter? For those new to it, they get stories of tailgates, pubnights, "I'm better than you because I went on a road trip"

Rarely...especially if they only come here...do they get the message that it's more than that.

By the standards set here...the casuals did their job...they went on a road trip and they got stupid drunk.

[Stencils]

I am going to agree to this as well. It really should sort peoples feelings out on wether they are there for the team, or just the party. It was pretty evident that a lot of people wanted the party last weekend.

Doesn't BMO already have to do a dry event this year? I think I heard it was going to be a Lacross game or something other than a TFC match.

I'm starting to think maybe instead they should actually do this for a TFC match. Saaaaaay maybe the Columbus @ TFC game? It would certainly get a message across. And that will likely be a match covered by the media with a little more focus so it would send a message to them as well.

[ginkster88]

Supporter: you know (most of) the songs, you want to learn new songs, you sing the songs, you know the players on the team, you take an active interest in how the team fares throughout the season, you attend the games that you can.

That's what I would consider a supporter.

[Jack]

I think there are probably a lot of people who want to do their own thing, but I also think there are probably a lot of people who want to participate and join in.

Perhaps it's better to bring them along. Yes it's easy to get 200 people on the same page, but it's AWESOME to get 1000 people on the same page. It takes a lot of time and effort.

We need to take charge of these situations. If we've got song sheets, we hand them out in the sections, we put a capo on each section in a big trip like this and hand out songsheets and get people going. If the majority don't get going, there should be a solid number who do. Each trip like this will bring more and more people into it and, as Cambridge_Red said, eventually we'll get to the level of having more and more people singing, but we can't get ahead of ourselves.

There is no way I'd rather see 100 supporters on a road trip than 1000. But to work towards a unified 1000 is not the work of 3 years, it's the work of 10 or more.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Doesn't BMO already have to do a dry event this year? I think I heard it was going to be a Lacross game or something other than a TFC match.

I'm starting to think maybe instead they should actually do this for a TFC match. Saaaaaay maybe the Columbus @ TFC game? It would certainly get a message across. And that will likely be a match covered by the media with a little more focus so it would send a message to them as well.

Disagree with the principle. Agree with your sentiment.

A ban wouldn't effect my attendance but i hate the fact I'm being deprived for the actions of someone else.

[brad]

I would suggest a series of YouTube(esq) videos and/or mp3 downloads would help.

The "Gameday" page on TFC website has links to both player and team chants but they are from season 1 and don't include any of the newer ones.

If you really want a chant to gain traction throughout the stadium, people need to come to the match with it already in their heads.

Use the medium available to reach a broader audience and I think you'll have more success.

The club did this at one point - I just looked back through my email, and this is a quote from the official email that came shortly before the start of the 2008 season





Learning the chants, songs and cheers with our video on www.torontofc.ca (http://mlsefans.com/index.cfm?n35167s1370c1085110t1380o4686), which teaches you using subtitles and action demonstrations straight from the crowd at BMO Field

[Pookie]

The club did this at one point -



Wouldn't hurt to do it again... with an updated list of songs/chants that are new. Even if the club didn't do it, make it available here (and on other supporter sites).

Song sheets are one thing. Seeing/hearing it done is another. I think the latter is more powerful as you get a sense as to the tempo, etc.

Don't forget that there are new "supporter" sections this year. There will be quite a few that want to participate but may not know the lyrics.

[brad]

Wouldn't hurt to do it again... with an updated list of songs/chants that are new. Even if the club didn't do it, make it available here (and on other supporter sites).

Don't forget that there are new "supporter" sections this year. There will be quite a few that want to participate but may not know the lyrics.

I agree with this, and I'm all for doing whatever to get more people singing.

However, my experience sitting in a non-supporters section that is fairly willing to sing along and make noise is that they will follow along with the rest happily, but I doubt there is too much interest to learn things on their own time.

Obviously, dealing with supporter sections vs. non-supporters sections are two different things.

[bdiddy]

From being in 119 at Crew Stadium, i did not see 1 person who was trying to lead any type of chang/song. This was my first road-trip as i finally have a bit of money to go on them now.

We tried to listen to what was going on in the middle sections, but there was too much ambient noise to really understand what was going on. Once people caught onto the chants on the sides.

Most away trips will probably be small because of the travel time/cost, but it seems like slowly your getting more and more each year. With that you'll get more leaders who know the songs and how to lead them. This will help with future larger away trips.

Personally i'm getting tired of "Nous Chanton les rouge Allez", and i'm definitely looking forward to new ones.

[BoobsFC]

I may not be affiliated or experienced on these road trips, hell I don't even have seasons.

But one thing I do know is that when it came time to chant I did, until I could no longer make a sound because my vocal cords were shot.

I may be a n00b like Flush is implying that there were a lot of this trip, but I was signing my heart out and was constantly givin a thumbs up from my capo in 118 after he realized that I would listen for his instructions and then help him get a chant started.

I thought the support was pretty good considering many people were running on a lack of sleep (I was awake for 39 hours at game time) and pretty drunk/exhausted.

[Nomad]

Nobody's calling out "n00bs" or people who gave it their all. People are calling out others who came down and don't try and don't care.

[SuperTCP]

I was there with 7 of my friends, 1/2 of which were "causuals". Sure we were drinking and kicking a ball around during the tailgate but I provided all the guys with the song sheets prior, and we chanted alot on the way to Columbus. And all 8 of us were chanting at full force during the whole game.

I don;t think it was that bad, but the chanting did die down alot during the 1st part of the 2nd half, then picked up in the last 10-15mins.

[KrazyKanadian]

Okay, I think we've beaten the horse enough on who is a supporter and who isn't. Let's focus on what we can do to fix it.

The area immediately around the drum was great, but the farther away you got, the more disorganized things were. I saw Flush on the right, Workie on the left, and Zack even farther left, and all of them were trying their hardest. I know people want to join in, but if they don't know the words, they can't. If we have people who do know the songs coordinating with the drummers, and hold the chants long enough for people to pick up on them, it will work. My voice doesn't carry well, even when belting it out, but I managed to hold Forza on my own at one point until the drummers realized it was still going and got banging away again. Little things like that can really help.

We don't need a single capo for a little area, we need several spread out in the group and looking at each other while helping the people in their area. A simple look and mouthing of the words is really effective.

[Cambridge_Red]

Both of you, bang fucking on. Personally, I can admit I do like to get drunk at SOME games, but usually road trips rather than home games. Most home games I'm as sober as a :stogey: can get. :lol: I don't buy beer in the stands at BMO, but that's my choice.

The Cauldren, Section 8, etc. Those are similar templates to what we could aim for in Unity. Having all the supporters on the same page on game day, regardless of which group they belong to. Two weeks in a row now, I've seen RPB and NEE get along better in the stands than I've ever seen. Nobody was trying to 'start their chants' or refusing to sing someone elses songs. It was pure unity and it showed, especially in KC.

Untill we have that kind of bond with all the supporters at BMO, we won't be able to see the improvement we WANT to see.

My $0.02 for what it's worth.

I agree for away games unity is key, at home we're so far apart and adding more opinions together might just complicate matters. So for the road yes at BMO not so much :) Though in the southend I totally think one SG would probably increase the overall atmosphere and chant/song co-ordination.

[Marc"2L"]

I'm not going to lie. Being away from Toronto it's hard to keep up with what we're singing . Occasionally I'll see one or two threads about songs that I'll learn but I never know if they actually take off or not.

Hate to say this, but is there anyway we could do an "song of the week" type deal.
One song, every week, over and over until we all hate it. By then, we should all know it. I'm talking threads of people just singing it. Remember when everybody first learned the shite bulls song? How many threads were filled with us just proclaiming their shite-ness?

[Carefree]

I think there are probably a lot of people who want to do their own thing, but I also think there are probably a lot of people who want to participate and join in.

Perhaps it's better to bring them along. Yes it's easy to get 200 people on the same page, but it's AWESOME to get 1000 people on the same page. It takes a lot of time and effort.

We need to take charge of these situations. If we've got song sheets, we hand them out in the sections, we put a capo on each section in a big trip like this and hand out songsheets and get people going. If the majority don't get going, there should be a solid number who do. Each trip like this will bring more and more people into it and, as Cambridge_Red said, eventually we'll get to the level of having more and more people singing, but we can't get ahead of ourselves.

There is no way I'd rather see 100 supporters on a road trip than 1000. But to work towards a unified 1000 is not the work of 3 years, it's the work of 10 or more.
Thank you Jack for being the voice of reason on this thread.

This bullshit attitude of "I'm a better supporter than you" displayed by Flush and countless others in this group is exactly the reason why I'm reluctant to join a SG. These people have such a simplistic "you're either with us or against us" view, where supporters are either die-hard ultras who live for the team or fairweather casuals who know nothing about the game and only show up to get drunk.

What about those of us somewhere in the middle? I'm not a season ticket holder, but I went to eight games at BMO last year, and I went to Columbus this weekend for my first away game. I don't know all the songs, but I am learning little by little. Sometimes I sing, sometimes I get up to yell encouragement to one of our players or an insult to the ref after a bad call, and sometimes I just feel like sitting down and watching the game.

My point is that people like me want to be part of the experience, and one day I may become an ultra, but the confrontational attitude that the so-called "real" supporters who think they're better than me and want to relegate me to the boring sections of the stadium are a real turn-off. Developing a good support base takes time. For fuck's sakes people, the team is only two years old! How can you expect people who, until two years ago only gave a casual glance at World Cup results to develop undying passion for a new team overnight? I'm confident that your vision of a football game in Toronto will eventually happen, but you have to let these things evolve naturally rather than forcing the issue.

In the meantime, if people want to go to Columbus to get drunk and see what this soccer thing is all about, just let them and worry about doing your own thing.

[Sonny Cheeba]

same thing will be said again and again until all those who want to sing are able to do so in the same section. when that happens, our singing at home and on the road will change drastically.

one SG will help, but as far as singing and chanting, that will only help on the road where we can potentially organize groups of supporters into the same section.

[Red Rat]

Thank you Jack for being the voice of reason on this thread.

This bullshit attitude of "I'm a better supporter than you" displayed by Flush and countless others in this group is exactly the reason why I'm reluctant to join a SG. These people have such a simplistic "you're either with us or against us" view, where supporters are either die-hard ultras who live for the team or fairweather casuals who know nothing about the game and only show up to get drunk.

What about those of us somewhere in the middle? I'm not a season ticket holder, but I went to eight games at BMO last year, and I went to Columbus this weekend for my first away game. I don't know all the songs, but I am learning little by little. Sometimes I sing, sometimes I get up to yell encouragement to one of our players or an insult to the ref after a bad call, and sometimes I just feel like sitting down and watching the game.

My point is that people like me want to be part of the experience, and one day I may become an ultra, but the confrontational attitude that the so-called "real" supporters who think they're better than me and want to relegate me to the boring sections of the stadium are a real turn-off. Developing a good support base takes time. For fuck's sakes people, the team is only two years old! How can you expect people who, until two years ago only gave a casual glance at World Cup results to develop undying passion for a new team overnight? I'm confident that your vision of a football game in Toronto will eventually happen, but you have to let these things evolve naturally rather than forcing the issue.

In the meantime, if people want to go to Columbus to get drunk and see what this soccer thing is all about, just let them and worry about doing your own thing.

You, when all this drunken fools start falling off the wagon you will be there to fill the gap. Ignore them for now...

[BFin]

What the fuck is a sounder?

[Sonny Cheeba]

Seattle is located on Puget Sound.... so they are Sounders, like New York Islanders are Islanders.

[BFin]

Finally!
Needed you during our bus 1 discussion, no one knew the real answer.

[AL-MO]

Thank you Jack for being the voice of reason on this thread.

This bullshit attitude of "I'm a better supporter than you" displayed by Flush and countless others in this group is exactly the reason why I'm reluctant to join a SG. These people have such a simplistic "you're either with us or against us" view, where supporters are either die-hard ultras who live for the team or fairweather casuals who know nothing about the game and only show up to get drunk.

What about those of us somewhere in the middle? I'm not a season ticket holder, but I went to eight games at BMO last year, and I went to Columbus this weekend for my first away game. I don't know all the songs, but I am learning little by little. Sometimes I sing, sometimes I get up to yell encouragement to one of our players or an insult to the ref after a bad call, and sometimes I just feel like sitting down and watching the game.

My point is that people like me want to be part of the experience, and one day I may become an ultra, but the confrontational attitude that the so-called "real" supporters who think they're better than me and want to relegate me to the boring sections of the stadium are a real turn-off. Developing a good support base takes time. For fuck's sakes people, the team is only two years old! How can you expect people who, until two years ago only gave a casual glance at World Cup results to develop undying passion for a new team overnight? I'm confident that your vision of a football game in Toronto will eventually happen, but you have to let these things evolve naturally rather than forcing the issue.

In the meantime, if people want to go to Columbus to get drunk and see what this soccer thing is all about, just let them and worry about doing your own thing.

FluSH was just a bit frustrated, didn't have the greatest weekend.

When you are trying to lead chants, and people just give you a blank stare, it is kind of discouraging. Our songs/chants are not that difficult anyways.

This isn't about who is a real supporter or not, its when you are on the road with us, we want you to participate and we want to HEAR you.

[MisterMacphisto]

This bullshit attitude of "I'm a better supporter than you" displayed by Flush and countless others in this group is exactly the reason why I'm reluctant to join a SG.

I think anyone who takes Flush's post as being about who is a better supporter has completely missed the point.

We're not inventing the wheel when it comes to what being a supporter of a football club is. Either you are there because you want to be a supporter of Toronto FC or you are not. RPB, U-Sector, NEE are supporters groups.

I'm a relatively new football supporter, and I've never met a fellow "veteran" supporter who has faulted me for my learning curve as long as the effort is there. Nobody is faulting anyone for having a learning curve. But the effort has to be there.

I'm not trying to put words into Flush's mouth, but I thinks it more about trying to bring us to our A game and getting the support and effort that is needed. Its not about who's a better supporter.

[Carefree]

FluSH was just a bit frustrated, didn't have the greatest weekend.

When you are trying to lead chants, and people just give you a blank stare, it is kind of discouraging. Our songs/chants are not that difficult anyways.

This isn't about who is a real supporter or not, its when you are on the road with us, we want you to participate and we want to HEAR you.
I understand what he's trying to do, and from his point of view I can see how it can get frustrating, but his approach -- giving orders like a drill sargent and chastising people for not following them -- is not conducive to winning new fans over.

I get the same attitude at the stadium when I sit in one of the non-supporters sections. You see two or three people trying to get chants going, and when the crowd doesn't respond they start insulting everyone, calling us "corporate fans" or something to that effect. I love the team, and I want to get into it, but I'm not going to fake passion when it isn't there.

Just be patient and people will come over.

[Pookie]

Has there been any thought towards how the new "supporters" sections will be organized to support the chants coming from the south end? (specifically, 110, 111 and 119)?

[LUFC]

I was in 113 and it was empty in places! if u want ppl to sing together send ppl who are big in the RPB'S and put them in each sction out front so u guys can get everyone singing together instead of individuals who are tsart to say TFC or w/e(kinda like coaching the crowd) and then it gets more ppl going becuase im offended by what u said me my dad n both my guest were singing our hearts out everyone sounded great!... hell my dad started a chant and it was his 2nd time at a game!

[LUFC]

And a 3 hour tailgate wtf do u expect? its 3 hours of nothing to do but drink and chat!, if u want everyone to chant gte a fucking speaker and mic and call everyone over and start it up. dont just stand in circle with the drum get control and call ppl over, it was my 1st trip and 1st time being with the RPBs and we didnt kno wat to do, u coulda asked whoas a 1st timer and wat not and shwon them the ropes. not everyone knos wat to do.

[Carefree]

I think anyone who takes Flush's post as being about who is a better supporter has completely missed the point.

We're not inventing the wheel when it comes to what being a supporter of a football club is. Either you are there because you want to be a supporter of Toronto FC or you are not. RPB, U-Sector, NEE are supporters groups.

I'm a relatively new football supporter, and I've never met a fellow "veteran" supporter who has faulted me for my learning curve as long as the effort is there. Nobody is faulting anyone for having a learning curve. But the effort has to be there.

I'm not trying to put words into Flush's mouth, but I thinks it more about trying to bring us to our A game and getting the support and effort that is needed. Its not about who's a better supporter.
Maybe you need to read his post again.


If you feel like binge drinking, smoking dope, or goofing off... go somewhere else and don't come to the tailgate. This is not Wasaga beach.


If you are going to do your own thing then there is no need to sit with us (RPB, NEE, etc..) or beside us at games... it's that simple.

Sounds pretty clear to me.

You say "Nobody is faulting anyone for having a learning curve. But the effort has to be there" and that's sensible enough, but who's to judge what effort is good enough? The best way to get people to participate is to do your own thing and let everyone see how awesome it is, and eventually they will join you. but that will never happen if you ruin their game-day experience by insulting them for not being good enough of a supporter.

[FluSH]

Thank you Jack for being the voice of reason on this thread.

This bullshit attitude of "I'm a better supporter than you" displayed by Flush and countless others in this group is exactly the reason why I'm reluctant to join a SG. These people have such a simplistic "you're either with us or against us" view, where supporters are either die-hard ultras who live for the team or fairweather casuals who know nothing about the game and only show up to get drunk.


How did you ever get this "I am better... than you attitude" is beyond me? I could care less if you are in an SG or if anyone joins a SG... I said it on the first page to James O...

If you know at least 5 different chants... then it shows you are trying. But if people are coming to roadtrips just to party then I don't want to be beside you... I'll party after the game... there is no need to get stupid drunk before when we are trying to vocally support our team.

[FluSH]

And a 3 hour tailgate wtf do u expect? its 3 hours of nothing to do but drink and chat!, if u want everyone to chant gte a fucking speaker and mic and call everyone over and start it up. dont just stand in circle with the drum get control and call ppl over, it was my 1st trip and 1st time being with the RPBs and we didnt kno wat to do, u coulda asked whoas a 1st timer and wat not and shwon them the ropes. not everyone knos wat to do.

Well now you know.

[FluSH]

I understand what he's trying to do, and from his point of view I can see how it can get frustrating, but his approach -- giving orders like a drill sargent and chastising people for not following them -- is not conducive to winning new fans over.


I'm personally not here to win new fans... that's for TFC FO. (and they are doing a great job).

I'm here trying to make the best supporters visually and vocally.

[AL-MO]

but his approach -- giving orders like a drill sargent and chastising people for not following them -- is not conducive to winning new fans over.



I don't remember anyone giving orders like a drill sergeant on Saturday. Several individuals from all of the SG's have over the past couple years become song/chant leaders. (Zac in U-sector, FluSH and Jack in RPB, and various people in NEE) They yell something out, the rest of the crowd responds. Pretty straight forward.

[Carefree]

I don't remember anyone giving orders like a drill sergeant on Saturday. Several individuals from all of the SG's have over the past couple years become song/chant leaders. (Zac in U-sector, FluSH and Jack in RPB, and various people in NEE) They yell something out, the rest of the crowd responds. Pretty straight forward.
I was referring to his tone and attitude in the first post of this thread. I've never met him in person and wouldn't have recognised him if I saw him on Saturday.

[Carefree]

I'm personally not here to win new fans... that's for TFC FO. (and they are doing a great job).

I'm here trying to make the best supporters visually and vocally.
I see. So basically you want to make sure everyone turns into a clone of yourself. Good job sport.

[flatpicker]

I see. So basically you want to make sure everyone turns into a clone of yourself. Good job sport.


chill... the folks who make an effort to coordinate songs in the stands are doing a tough job, and they do it for the good of the team.

[AL-MO]

I see. So basically you want to make sure everyone turns into a clone of yourself. Good job sport.

WEAK.

We put in hours on this stuff. All we ask for is for everyone to particpate and respond.

[Shaughno]

I see. So basically you want to make sure everyone turns into a clone of yourself. Good job sport.


Dude, if you don't want to support the team by singing and whatnot, that's fine. But this is a SUPPORTERS message board. Don't go raising a stink when someone from the banners and chants team tries to get people rallied to *gasp* SUPPORT THEIR FUCKING TEAM. :rolleyes:

It's not about being 'better' supporters than anyone else, it's about being better supporters then anywhere else in the league, North America for that matter. If you don't strive for success you sure aren't going to fucking achieve it now are you?

[Jack]

Trust me, no one wants to clone Flush!!! :D

[el rojo fanatico]

I'm personally not here to win new fans... that's for TFC FO. (and they are doing a great job).

I'm here trying to make the best supporters visually and vocally.
Is this not why we join a supporters group in the first place?

[Carefree]

Dude, if you don't want to support the team by singing and whatnot, that's fine. But this is a SUPPORTERS message board. Don't go raising a stink when someone from the banners and chants team tries to get people rallied to *gasp* SUPPORT THEIR FUCKING TEAM. :rolleyes:

It's not about being 'better' supporters than anyone else, it's about being better supporters then anywhere else in the league, North America for that matter. If you don't strive for success you sure aren't going to fucking achieve it now are you?
I'm all for rallying people to support the team, and you guys do a fantastic job with the banners, chants, tifos, etc., not to mention the logistics involved with organizing a large-scale road trip. Where I have a problem is when you start chastising people for not reacting the way you want them to. That's when the "I'm a better supporter than you" attitude comes out. You want people to participate, so let them get involved at their own pace.

[KdotOdot]

1% Avatars for all that fit the bill.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2554/1jpgm.png

[FluSH]

Is this not why we join a supporters group in the first place?

some people don't believe so...

I'm speechless at this guy carefree... I think next game we'll all just chill do our thing and play with a beachball... let the banners paint themselves, and do whatever heatlh care chant, suit there it is chant they want... let's just shutdown the whole thing...

[Shaughno]

I'm all for rallying people to support the team, and you guys do a fantastic job with the banners, chants, tifos, etc., not to mention the logistics involved with organizing a large-scale road trip. Where I have a problem is when you start chastising people for not reacting the way you want them to. That's when the "I'm a better supporter than you" attitude comes out. You want people to participate, so let them get involved at their own pace.

Flush's frustration comes from the fact that even people who went to KC and had no prior away game experience, were able to join in on even the most difficult chants we attempted. Then the following week we're in Columbus and people are more concerned with having a chat, drinking their beer and not even attempting to sing or CLAP! If you don't poke and prod people will just stand around, for lack of a better term, with their dick in their hands.

[BFin]

I'm all for rallying people to support the team, and you guys do a fantastic job with the banners, chants, tifos, etc., not to mention the logistics involved with organizing a large-scale road trip. Where I have a problem is when you start chastising people for not reacting the way you want them to. That's when the "I'm a better supporter than you" attitude comes out. You want people to participate, so let them get involved at their own pace.
It's been said many times...he was venting a bit of frustration.
We have all at one time or another gotten overly heated on this board.
The fact of the matter is, that the section I was in (little hazy on the number) was not that loud until Flush came over and got a little bit of something going. He was trying to support the team through chanting, and was frustrated when it didn't happen.
If you want to organize it, then you should be reaching out to someone to volunteer your time to coordinate chants. With the time investment Flush puts into these things I think you too would be quite frustrated if the result was not up to snuff for you.

That being said, I personally had no problem with the chanting, as I previously stated.

[Boris]

Flush's frustration comes from the fact that even people who went to KC and had no prior away game experience, were able to join in on even the most difficult chants we attempted. Then the following week we're in Columbus and people are more concerned with having a chat, drinking their beer and not even attempting to sing or CLAP! If you don't poke and prod people will just stand around, for lack of a better term, with their dick in their hands.

we had this talk on the way home...sadly every prediction we had...was right

[FluSH]

I'm all for rallying people to support the team, and you guys do a fantastic job with the banners, chants, tifos, etc., not to mention the logistics involved with organizing a large-scale road trip. Where I have a problem is when you start chastising people for not reacting the way you want them to. That's when the "I'm a better supporter than you" attitude comes out. You want people to participate, so let them get involved at their own pace.

Listen you and I go to games for two different things...

This is what I go to games for:

ful38E9tnJc

This is what others go to games for:

YXfOSXsOhKk

The Velcro guy above is cool and all, but I don't want him beside me during games if he can't keep up... cause you are ruining my in game experience... you might as well go sit somewhere else, and we'll party afterwards. Do you understand?

[Bluenose13]

I think anyone who takes Flush's post as being about who is a better supporter has completely missed the point.

We're not inventing the wheel when it comes to what being a supporter of a football club is. Either you are there because you want to be a supporter of Toronto FC or you are not. RPB, U-Sector, NEE are supporters groups.

I'm a relatively new football supporter, and I've never met a fellow "veteran" supporter who has faulted me for my learning curve as long as the effort is there. Nobody is faulting anyone for having a learning curve. But the effort has to be there.

I'm not trying to put words into Flush's mouth, but I thinks it more about trying to bring us to our A game and getting the support and effort that is needed. Its not about who's a better supporter.Exactly.......Well said.

[el rojo fanatico]

Dude, if you don't want to support the team by singing and whatnot, that's fine. But this is a SUPPORTERS message board. Don't go raising a stink when someone from the banners and chants team tries to get people rallied to *gasp* SUPPORT THEIR FUCKING TEAM. :rolleyes:

It's not about being 'better' supporters than anyone else, it's about being better supporters then anywhere else in the league, North America for that matter. If you don't strive for success you sure aren't going to fucking achieve it now are you?
That is the point, lets figure a way of making our next road trip even better. Part of that is trying to get better chanting/singing but it also means better tifos, flags etc.. The rest of the supporters in this league are watching us and learning quick. We saw this on Saturday and thats from a dead zone Columbus, imagine what the Timber Army and the Sons of Ben will get going

[Dave67]

The Velcro guy above is cool and all, but I don't want him beside me during games if he can't keep up... cause you are ruining my in game experience... you might as well go sit somewhere else, and we'll party afterwards. Do you understand?

Too fucking right!

[Shaughno]

we had this talk on the way home...sadly every prediction we had...was right

:( Sad part is, I don't even want to say I told ya so...


Listen you and I go to games for two different things...

This is what I go to games for:

ful38E9tnJc

This is what others go to games for:

YXfOSXsOhKk

The Velcro guy above is cool and all, but I don't want him beside me during games if he can't keep up... cause you are ruining my in game experience... you might as well go sit somewhere else, and we'll party afterwards. Do you understand?

Makes for good video, but we're not trying to get on America's Funniest Home Videos here. We're supporting our team. We're making sure that when they feel down and out, they hear us, see us, and feel rejuvenated. Much like in Columbus. Out comes the smoke, less than a couple minutes later, goal.

THAT's why you're supposed to make the trip. Not to try and end up in the hospital with your stomach pumped.

[Darlofletch]

I've only just joined this site as I've been reading it a while and seems like a good place to get info and talk about the team etc.

I'm going to do my best to stay away from this type of thread though as I'm very much in agreement with carefree. Being told exactly what I have to do and when I have to do it if you want to be considered a real supporter is annoying as all hell.

I've got seasons in the west stand, I'll stand up when something exciting's happening, I'll cheer and sing sometimes when the game is suitably inspiring, but i do like to sit down, have a drink or two and watch the game.

That must mean I'm a casual soccer mom rather than a true fan, and it's that attitude that really annoys me, and no doubt my attitude annoys a lot of you, so that's why I'll stick to other threads.

Kudos to all of you that do put in the effort though, and especially to those who organise it, I certainly enjoy your efforts.

One question though, all this talk of having Capos in different sections, and song sheets. Is this not getting dangerously close to Cheerleaders and "make some noise" messages on the scoreboard at hockey/baseball games?

[Carefree]

1% Avatars for all that fit the bill.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2554/1jpgm.png
nice!!

[flatpicker]

... this is a SUPPORTERS message board.


That's it in a nutshell.

This forum is not here just so fans can get the latest news and rumours.

This forum is for a group of organised individuals to unify their efforts in support of Toronto.

It's fine if people choose not to get involved in supporter endeavours... but those people belong in the Big Soccer forum.

[KdotOdot]

I'm so serious dude. It's not even funny.

[Carter]

OIE

FluSH i got your back.

WE ARE THE 12th man on the field. PERIOD.

We are the voice in the stands filled with passion, pride and purpose for every minute of every game.

[Shaughno]

I've only just joined this site as I've been reading it a while and seems like a good place to get info and talk about the team etc.

I'm going to do my best to stay away from this type of thread though as I'm very much in agreement with carefree. Being told exactly what I have to do and when I have to do it if you want to be considered a real supporter is annoying as all hell.

I've got seasons in the west stand, I'll stand up when something exciting's happening, I'll cheer and sing sometimes when the game is suitably inspiring, but i do like to sit down, have a drink or two and watch the game.

That must mean I'm a casual soccer mom rather than a true fan, and it's that attitude that really annoys me, and no doubt my attitude annoys a lot of you, so that's why I'll stick to other threads.

Kudos to all of you that do put in the effort though, and especially to those who organise it, I certainly enjoy your efforts.

One question though, all this talk of having Capos in different sections, and song sheets. Is this not getting dangerously close to Cheerleaders and "make some noise" messages on the scoreboard at hockey/baseball games?

Listen, nobody is asking you to be a supporter. Nobody is saying if you aren't a supporter you shouldn't be there. What we're saying is, if you come to this board, a SUPPORTERS GROUP MESSAGE BOARD, expect that the supporters are going to talk about, propose and analyze ideas and events that have and will happen at games.

Don't like it? Fine, but don't bitch when someone from the BANNERS and CHANTS team asks people to step up their game. He's not talking about every single person at BMO. He's talking about those who claim to be supporters. If you want to be a supporter, bring your fucking 'A' game and show the team that you can match their passion on the pitch, with your passion in the stands.

Understand?

[olegunnar]

I'm going to do my best to stay away from this type of thread though as I'm very much in agreement with carefree. Being told exactly what I have to do and when I have to do it if you want to be considered a real supporter is annoying as all hell.

I've got seasons in the west stand, I'll stand up when something exciting's happening, I'll cheer and sing sometimes when the game is suitably inspiring, but i do like to sit down, have a drink or two and watch the game.

That must mean I'm a casual soccer mom rather than a true fan, and it's that attitude that really annoys me, and no doubt my attitude annoys a lot of you, so that's why I'll stick to other threads.



FYI
Supporter and Fan are not interchangable terms. They are very much different.

Sounds like you're a fan...that's great. Not a derogatory statement.

If you're going to be in a supporter's section (like the south stand in Columbus) then you're going to be expected to be a supporter. Hence Flush's issue with some people.

If you'd prefer to be a fan...great! there were plenty of empty seats in other sections for fans.

[Daveisonfire]

OIE

FluSH i got your back.

WE ARE THE 12th man on the field. PERIOD.

We are the voice in the stands filled with passion, pride and purpose for every minute of every game.

Agreed!

[olegunnar]

Maybe this thread is a sign that he Away Team should limit who it sells tickets too, rather than being a pseudo ticketmaster for everyone.

It'd be lost revenue, for sure, but it would probably be the best thing as supporters.

[MG42]

chill... the folks who make an effort to coordinate songs in the stands are doing a tough job, and they do it for the good of the team.

agree 100%, it takes balls

[ginkster88]

And you have got to be kidding about the cheerleaders/make some noise business. Capos/song sheets are to get everybody who wants to sing for 90 minutes on the same page, so that a group in one area won't be left behind by another one... cheerleaders/make some noise becomes necessary when nobody wants to do that and the arena/stadium would fall silent otherwise.

[GingerNinja]

This is what I go to games for:

ful38E9tnJc



Brings a tear to my eye.

Carefree, you clearly just don't get it. I'd suggest you take a break from this thread and maybe the board for a day and think about what everyone has said here.

[Suds]

I've only just joined this site as I've been reading it a while and seems like a good place to get info and talk about the team etc.

I'm going to do my best to stay away from this type of thread though as I'm very much in agreement with carefree. Being told exactly what I have to do and when I have to do it if you want to be considered a real supporter is annoying as all hell.

I've got seasons in the west stand, I'll stand up when something exciting's happening, I'll cheer and sing sometimes when the game is suitably inspiring, but i do like to sit down, have a drink or two and watch the game.

That must mean I'm a casual soccer mom rather than a true fan, and it's that attitude that really annoys me, and no doubt my attitude annoys a lot of you, so that's why I'll stick to other threads.

Kudos to all of you that do put in the effort though, and especially to those who organise it, I certainly enjoy your efforts.

One question though, all this talk of having Capos in different sections, and song sheets. Is this not getting dangerously close to Cheerleaders and "make some noise" messages on the scoreboard at hockey/baseball games?

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying you have to do exactly as the people in the supporters sections do. You choose the support TFC and that's awesome!! You have also chosen to enjoy your game-day experience in the west stand. That's cool ... there are many RPB's who are in other parts of the stadium and prefer that. (I don't sit in a designated Supports Group Section)

What people here are getting at is if you choose to sit in the Supporters Groups Section, or with them as in Columbus, then they would appreciate the effort to include yourself in the experience they are trying to bring to the game-day experience.

[Heathen]

You know I used to think along similar lines to Care Free, not wanting to be told what to and when to sing but I realize now that folks like Flush and the other 'capos' and drummers are a blessing. It doesn't mean you have to join in every song like a zombie, sing the songs you like keep quiet for the ones you don't (personally I detest TiOH) but anyone who calls themselves a supporter and still has a voice the day after the game is kidding themselves.

[Nomad]

1500 individuals doing their own thing, whenever they feel like it doesn't create atmosphere. If you like the support and atmosphere than be a part of it, not sitting on the sidelines and bragging to your friends later about how crazy is was when you did nothing to contribute to it.

Everyone is free to be an individual every other day, but for those 90 mins (+ injury :D ) we are there to be united and show everyone else why we are better than them.

To reiterate, no one is forcing anyone to do anything or saying others can't go on the road. But if you want to go on the road, do it on your own time. If you want a seat, find your own seat. If you don't want to participate, go over there. I'm not saying i ain't glad you're there, just please, don't get in my way.

I never noticed how bad it was in Columbus. In 115/116 down front is was top notch!!

[Phil]

Maybe this thread is a sign that he Away Team should limit who it sells tickets too, rather than being a pseudo ticketmaster for everyone.

It'd be lost revenue, for sure, but it would probably be the best thing as supporters.


There is no revenue from away games.

[FluSH]

I've got seasons in the west stand, I'll stand up when something exciting's happening, I'll cheer and sing sometimes when the game is suitably inspiring, but i do like to sit down, have a drink or two and watch the game.



...and one day, when I'm 75 and retire from the group I'll probably join you there. There is nothing wrong with this.

[Pookie]

Rather than drag on the Supporter vs Fan debate... on a practical note... has any thought been given as to how to integrate the new supporter sections (110, 111 and 119) into the mix?

Will those sections have a capo?

Have they organized around any group in particular? 127 is obviously going to go with NEE.

What of 119? Sure as heck hope they don't follow TRN.

Are 110 and 111 with the RPBs?

[Shaughno]

What people here are getting at is if you choose to sit in the Supporters Groups Section, or with them as in Columbus, then they would appreciate the effort to include yourself in the experience they are trying to bring to the game-day experience.


Yes!!! Yes!!!! YESSSSSS!!!!!

[alexintoronto]

Honest Question: Why does anyone want to be in a supporters section if they don't want to do what supporters do?

[RedWookie]

get loaded, is my assumption

[Suljazz]

Listen you and I go to games for two different things...

This is what I go to games for:

ful38E9tnJc



I really do agree that it would be awesome if all of BMO could be singing and chanting like that video of 112 shows... but even I can see in that passionate video is people in 113 arent doing it... and those at the top of 112 arent either. The argument i keep reading is that the KC trip was better and the chanting/singing was much more on point, fact of the matter is that if you are content with filling the stands with a small/exclusive group like in the Youtube video that jump and sing and chant and look organized, then be content with that.

its really feeling to me that if someone goes to BMO and dosent support the way you want them to, you would rather not be bothered with their type of support... you would rather they not come on road trips, and that you would rather have a much more exclusive group. I thought the main pre-requisite for being a Red Patch Boy was to support the Toronto Football Club with all you have, and not to make fellow group members feel less welcome if they chose to experience the game in a different way. Just for the record, I feel like I know the songs, know the game, am passionate about my support and aim to lose my voice at the end of each game... But I like to drink at the game, I think the two can go together if they come together responsibly.

[Shaughno]

its really feeling to me that if someone goes to BMO and dosent support the way you want them to, you would rather not be bothered with their type of support... you would rather they not come on road trips, and that you would rather have a much more exclusive group. I thought the main pre-requisite for being a Red Patch Boy was to support the Toronto Football Club with all you have, and not to make fellow group members feel less welcome if they chose to experience the game in a different way. Just for the record, I feel like I know the songs, know the game, am passionate about my support and aim to lose my voice at the end of each game... But I like to drink at the game, I think the two can go together if they come together responsibly.

Ivan, Flush is talking about when you're with the supporters, in the supporters section, etc. Not saying people shouldn't come on road trips, but if they are going to buy tickets through the supporters groups, they should at least be showing some effort, which a lot of people weren't from what I saw. You don't have to know the songs. Simple things like clapping to the beat of the drum, it shows initiative and effort. Standing there blank faced, beer in hand and not doing anything at all? That's not acceptable in the supporters section IMO.


I agree beer can be mixed, but people take it too far and are so drunk they don't know what's going on at the game. That's not cool.

[Carefree]

I thought the main pre-requisite for being a Red Patch Boy was to support the Toronto Football Club with all you have, and not to make fellow group members feel less welcome if they chose to experience the game in a different way.

Thank you. That's all I'm saying.

People seem to have misinterpreted what I meant when I said you should do your own thing. Of course having 1500 people acting independently would create a very poor atmosphere, but that's not going to happen. Out of those 1500, at least 1000 will sing, dance, jump and cheer in unison. Another 300 will watch and jump in from time to time, and maybe another 200 will be there just to watch and soak it all in. What's wrong with that? Personally, I would be one of the 300 who join in from time to time, but I wouldn't judge those who don't sing at all, just like I don't appreciate being judged by those who think I dont sing enough.

[The Kingpin]

I really do agree that it would be awesome if all of BMO could be singing and chanting like that video of 112 shows... but even I can see in that passionate video is people in 113 arent doing it... and those at the top of 112 arent either. The argument i keep reading is that the KC trip was better and the chanting/singing was much more on point, fact of the matter is that if you are content with filling the stands with a small/exclusive group like in the Youtube video that jump and sing and chant and look organized, then be content with that.

its really feeling to me that if someone goes to BMO and dosent support the way you want them to, you would rather not be bothered with their type of support... you would rather they not come on road trips, and that you would rather have a much more exclusive group. I thought the main pre-requisite for being a Red Patch Boy was to support the Toronto Football Club with all you have, and not to make fellow group members feel less welcome if they chose to experience the game in a different way. Just for the record, I feel like I know the songs, know the game, am passionate about my support and aim to lose my voice at the end of each game... But I like to drink at the game, I think the two can go together if they come together responsibly.

What a fantastic note - brilliant. Some individuals don't realise how polarising these type of statements are, they create even further dissent - And trust me, I know all about polarising. Somewhere Jack said it would/could take up to ten years to get things unified - I think it could be less if people started to open their arms to a different type of person. I'm not going to get embroiled in this debate, but some of the posts in this thread SCREAM of elitism, even secular considering the stance of a few.

[Shaughno]

Thank you. That's all I'm saying.



Directly quoted from the RPB Charter.

We are the voice in the stands
filled with passion, pride and purpose
for every minute of every game.

Which is exactly what I've been saying the whole time. We're looking for initiative, effort and some interest in supporting your team. If you aren't, you shouldn't be with the supporters, end of.

[Shaughno]

And on that bombshell, I'm getting the fuck out of this bullshit.

[Niall]

I sit in the supporters section. Have no affiliation to any supporter groups.

I do try to keep up with chants when I manage to get time from my schedule to do so.

The song sheet in my email before the Columbus game was a great tool to further my knowledge of the newer chants. I showed up at the tailgate not really knowing anyone outside of the 4 people I came down with. Asked for clarification on the rhythm from some of the more active supporters and started chanting from 2:30 until around 7pm.

It's not as if they are really that complicated. Most are based on melodies of famous songs.

Anyway it did seem to get a little sloppy as the game progressed. I taught my four friends to the best of my ability and they held strong.

A hearty thanks to those that helped me enjoy the day.

Partying and Supporting your team are not mutually exclusive. I enjoy a beverage or eight. But I also like to remember my time. Be responsible, walk out of the stadium without a voice and have stories to share the next day.

[Shaughno]

I sit in the supporters section. Have no affiliation to any supporter groups.

I do try to keep up with chants when I manage to get time from my schedule to do so.

The song sheet in my email before the Columbus game was a great tool to further my knowledge of the newer chants. I showed up at the tailgate not really knowing anyone outside of the 4 people I came down with. Asked for clarification on the rhythm from some of the more active supporters and started chanting from 2:30 until around 7pm.

It's not as if they are really that complicated. Most are based on melodies of famous songs.

Anyway it did seem to get a little sloppy as the game progressed. I taught my four friends to the best of my ability and they held strong.

A hearty thanks to those that helped me enjoy the day.

Partying and Supporting your team are not mutually exclusive. I enjoy a beverage or eight. But I also like to remember my time. Be responsible, walk out of the stadium without a voice and have stories to share the next day.

Beauty fucking post.

[AL-MO]

Funny I got into this debate on BigSoccer with Roc Le Douche. I was trying to explain when numbers start reaching 2000 and beyond that it becomes very hard to deal with.

He just took it as that I only wanted myself and my 30 buddies on the trip, which is total BS.

[flatpicker]

I don't see this discussion as containing "elitist" opinions Kingpin.

What folks are saying is this is a Supporters Group!
If you want to be a part of what supporter groups do, then welcome aboard!
If you just want to chill out, kick your feet up, have a beer and watch the game...
... that's fine, but that's not what Supporters Groups are for.

Enjoying soccer and staying up to date with the goings-on of TFC is terrific... but you can do that on the Big Soccer forum.
RPB, U-Sector, NEE... those are places for people to organise vocal and visual support of our team.

I don't see what the confusion and fuss is about!

[Carefree]

I'm not going to get embroiled in this debate...

That's too bad, this debate needs some reasonable people like you.

[Shaughno]

I don't see this discussion as containing "elitist" opinions Kingpin.

What folks are saying is this is a Supporters Group!
If you want to be a part of what supporter groups do, then welcome aboard!
If you just want to chill out, kick your feet up, have a beer and watch the game...
... that's fine, but that's not what Supporters Groups are for.

Enjoying soccer and staying up to date with the goings-on of TFC is terrific... but you can do that on the Big Soccer forum.
RPB, U-Sector, NEE... those are places for people to organise vocal and visual support of our team.

I don't see what the confusion and fuss is about!

It's elitest because he doesn't share the same opinion. Hey Flats, when was the last time we agreed on something? ;) Add another one to the list. :lol:

[tfcmanu]

This is the problem:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Carlsberg_beer.jpg

:drinking:

[Suljazz]

And on that bombshell, I'm getting the fuck out of this bullshit.

good on ya brother... and the thought that was noted above that it could take many more years to organize the group(s) i could not agree with more. In the mean time, as supporters lets all be patient with the support that is given, let the group create an identity... for one thing i am certain, BMO will never become as uptight and quiet as the ACC is during Leaf games.

[FluSH]

I thought the main pre-requisite for being a Red Patch Boy was to support the Toronto Football Club with all you have, and not to make fellow group members feel less welcome if they chose to experience the game in a different way.

Shaughno posted the RPB charter... which should be read by everyone being a member.

With that said, there is a reason why Parkdale doesn't have seats in the South End, and chose to have seats in a different section... and I respect his option for that... he is no lesser of a supporter by any means... what I'm saying is that if these massive roadtrips don't change and it becomes a clusterfc#k of different fans/supporters... I rather not go. and yes... Saturday was still terrible.

[AL-MO]

This is the problem:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Carlsberg_beer.jpg

:drinking:

Really? I thought it was the solution to all of life's problems! :lol:

[Suds]

^^

I agree .. Carlsberg is crap beer!! :D

[tfcmanu]

Shaughno posted the RPB charter... which should be read by everyone being a member.

With that said, there is a reason why Parkdale doesn't have seats in the South End, and chose to have seats in a different section... and I respect his option for that... he is no lesser of a supporter by any means... what I'm saying is that if these massive roadtrips don't change and it becomes a clusterfc#k of different fans/supporters... I rather not go. and yes... Saturday was still terrible.

Flush, I think you made a point about drinking too much, I agree people have to pace them selves we are not in High School when you over drink and make a fool of yourself and the same goes with Chanting and singing at a footbal game drinking causes fatigue and mumbling and basically what will happen NO SINGING AND CHANTING for some people who can't handel there alcohol. I seen this everywhere in our section in C-BUS at one point a couple of guys where chanting and making up there own words that pissed me off...Know your limits drink enough to have a good time after the game drown yourself in your favourite alcoholic beverage. :drinking:

[flatpicker]

Shaughno posted the RPB charter... which should be read by everyone being a member.

With that said, there is a reason why Parkdale doesn't have seats in the South End, and chose to have seats in a different section... and I respect his option for that... he is no lesser of a supporter by any means...

and the fact is, you don't have to sit in a supporters section to belong to a supporters group.

Someone like Parkdale may sit in the snooty prawn section ;) but he spends a lot of his time working for the RPB cause.

If you want to be a part of a Supporters Group... then contribute to the group.

[Suljazz]

Shaughno posted the RPB charter... which should be read by everyone being a member.

With that said, there is a reason why Parkdale doesn't have seats in the South End, and chose to have seats in a different section... and I respect his option for that... he is no lesser of a supporter by any means... what I'm saying is that if these massive roadtrips don't change and it becomes a clusterfc#k of different fans/supporters... I rather not go. and yes... Saturday was still terrible.

With all that said, I respect that you have a clear-cut opinion on Saturday and I do not aim to change your mind, I had lots of fun supporting the TFC and will do so forever. What I have taken offense to the most, and I dont not want this point to be lost with everything else I have said.. is this thread has taken on a very elitist perspective on supporting the club, a my way or the highway opinion and I really hope thats not the message people are being sent.

thats all.

[flatpicker]

^ as I said earlier... "my way or the highway" is not what this group is about.

What it is about, is contributing to the cause.

[Suljazz]

^ as I said earlier... "my way or the highway" is not what this group is about.

What it is about, is contributing to the cause.

well said.

[Carefree]

Good way to end the thread.

Thanks everyone for keeping it civilized, even though we seem to passionately disagree on this. I know I had to hit the Delete button a few times when writing my comments.

cheers!

[FluSH]

The End

[t-bag]

Well since the other one ended prematurely, I think I will try to start it up again, although this shit will be closed too I imagine.

Maybe the problem is that the new songs and chants that have been added (post-Chicago last season) are shit. The song to the tune of the ants go marching in is cringeworthy, as was the Carver themed winter wonderland. It would seem to me that everyone is trying too hard to sound like world beating supporters. Watch a game anywhere else in the world... nobody sings for 90 mins, and nobody has a collection of more than a few 'original songs' that nobody else sing. To get mad that we sang 3-4 of our more popular chants for the last 1/2 hour is fucked. Nobody pisses on West Ham for singing about bubbles too much, but if you watch them play you will realize its the only song they know outside of a few standard chants.

Who gives a fuck if our singing was not as good as it has been. We dont get points for it, and its not like anyone is out there saying "oh fuckin toronto, they only sing a few shitty chants." As far as most people were concerned we were there, we made noise, and we got a point on the road. Thats what the game is all about anyway - we are supposed to be there to support the team and get behind the players, not just sing and dance really nicely. Christ Ive been to games at Hampden where it is deafening for 90 mins, and Ive been there to hear a pin drop because people are too nervous to utter a noise.

Has anyone noticed that people who are ultra concerned with how the supporters look and sound are the same people who never comment on the actual game or the players. For those that did go and didnt meet the standards of the RPB choir - I hope you all had a good weekend away with your friends as that is what its all about. I know I did.

[H Bomb]

Just remember that this is a series of individuals on the board so there is no board mentality...after that, there is no reason to not constantly try to better ourselves in every way

[dantdot]

Nothing good can come of this thread.