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Toronto_Bhoy
03-31-2009, 11:05 AM
TFC supporters need to get thicker skins. This crying and whining after every negative article or radio piece is ridiculous…toughen up!

The two articles in today’s SUN by Lance Hornby and Gareth Wheeler are both viable forms of journalism. One deals with facts based on events and one on is opinion based on facts. They are two completely different stories, one reports…one editorializes.

Hornsby’s article is based on facts as he has found them.

Answer true or false to the following statements made in the Hornby article:


Fights broke out in the parking lot
Officers had to request assistance
Some people were tasered
Some were arrested
At least a couple were taken to jail
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below
Some bleacher seats damaged.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers


Hornsby is “reporting” based on information he has gathered…did these events happen…yes or no?

I wasn’t in Columbus but based on what I’ve read on this site from “first hand accounts” by those who were, by viewing the game on TV and internet video, even I can verify most of the above as “true”.

Lance goes on to quote Jack, I assume verbatim. That’s journalism.


Wheeler’s article is an editorial…his opinion.

His article is also based on fact, however, he states his personal opinion on those facts, some of which I totally agree with when you answer true or false:


It is embarrassing
It is just idiots hopped up on liquid courage
The majority of supporters were well behaved
The police and security aren’t free of blame
People got tasered! That’s serious.
They’re not hooligans…they’re idiots


The issue I have with Wheeler is positioning the Red Patch Boys as being responsible for the behaviour of TFC supporters. By quoting Jack/RPB in his editorial turns the focus on our group which was really unfair, like we control the actions of TFC fans. We are only responsible for our own and we have DO measures to deal with those in “our” group who decided to venture beyond the club rules.

Oh, and Jack is correct in stating (and I paraphrase), “Gareth, how we discipline our own is none of your fucking business!”

We DO need to self-police…if any RPB’s were part of the problems “reported” on the weekend…they don’t deserve to be members! And for those who ignore or turn a blind eye to RPB’s who engage in these activities…you too, are members we don’t need.

Guys, get use to this kind of media and roll with it. Supporters around the world have…time for us to do the same.

Marc"2L"
03-31-2009, 11:34 AM
Pretty much, but the problem is that these incidents are already impacting other things.

For example, we're not allowed flags and what not in Columbus (if we ever went back).

Naturegirl
03-31-2009, 11:42 AM
got ya but its still hard to be scewered like that after all the hard work and more fun and good times were had than bad shit. Alot of crew fans partied with us and where respectful as we were to them, why was that not mentioned? other than the railing being thrown, which wasn't rpb, last year was worse. Alot more pepper spraying went on last year than this year.
my skin is tough but that doesn't mean i should ignore him. He disses my peeps, i want to ban, write him, and stand up for whats right in the supporters groups. Make sure the good gets out there as well.

Super
03-31-2009, 11:46 AM
Who cares what the media has to say about us. I don't really get the point of any of this. What, are we looking for a great review on how we support our team?

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 11:46 AM
TB, There is nothing whiney about standing up for yourself and insisting on fair reporting. That is all.

And no..."some" were not arrested. One arrest on the TFC side.

That makes a story?

If you are ok with slanted reporting...by all means, feel free to sit down and be quiet. The rest of us won't let our good names be trampled through the mud by a bunch of tabloid hacks pretending to be journalists.

Were you there? Where is this "disrespect" to the US anthem coming from? I was in the middle of it and saw none of it. Did you?

As for wanting a positive review of us. I don't care about that. Carver and the team's appreciation is all I need. But dammit if I am going to do absolutely nothing wrong and then have a douchebag like Wheeler try to make me feel guilty for something I don't need to feel guilty about. And if I want to rant and tell him to piss of...that is my right.

BFin
03-31-2009, 11:52 AM
I give a rats ass.
So should you.
If you don't give a rats ass about your reputation thats fine, but when it is being painted as a red patch boys trip, and red patch boys fault you're god damn right I care.
Instead of questioning us as to why we care about being painted with an unfair hand...look at yourself and think of why you don't care that you're being portrayed as a thoughtless drunk there to fight.

ginkster88
03-31-2009, 11:54 AM
It's just frustrating when the facts are misrepresented. Think about the facts that were featured in both articles. The focus on the negativity casts the entire event in a shadow, and the motivation of the journalists responsible is clear: to create a story and controversy, to get some attention.

Imagine if they each wrote: "Toronto FC Fans go to Columbus and By and Large Everything was Fine."

That's a headline we'd never see, due to the media's penchant for sensationalism. However, that headline is a better representation of the actual events. I guess to be a journalist you have to be able to create a problem out of thin air, which is pretty fucking rich if you ask me.

BFin
03-31-2009, 11:57 AM
hahah with the deletion of the other two posts I now look like an over zealous anger machine due to my response.

Fort York Redcoat
03-31-2009, 11:57 AM
Who cares what the media has to say about us. I don't really get the point of any of this. What, are we looking for a great review on how we support our team?


Agreed. You don't. I'm happy that you do not take offence when someone turns what was a great weekend into something negative for listeners. I'm glad you have a thicker skin.

It's a forum. People bitch on forums. You don't agree and that's O.K. but a trip this big gets more attention and more traffic (and "whining") than usual. It's not the first time.

Don Julio
03-31-2009, 11:58 AM
Yeah, stupid media, sensationalizing everything!

Heathen
03-31-2009, 11:59 AM
Let's be absolutely honest about this TB, if the same events had happened at a Leafs game in Buffalo or Ottawa it wouldn't have made the front page. The Old school sports media has been jonesing to trash soccer in this city, that's what pisses us off.

billyfly
03-31-2009, 11:59 AM
http://www.thestar.com/article/610092

Makes no mention of any trouble. It took (over) 2 days for anything to trickle out thanks to YouTube.

Ratven
03-31-2009, 12:01 PM
We absolutely did nothing of the sort to the US anthem, in fact the stupid COLUMBUS supporters chanted "USA, USA" through the first 1/4 of the US anthem.

They didn't HAVE to call for backup, they did... because the one small scuffle there was due to poor security coordination and leading us both out the same exit apparently qualified as a mass riot where they needed to call in dozens of squad cars and a helicopter. The only thing actually coming out of it is one guy getting tackled by 9 cops AND tasered while he was on the ground.

Was there damage to the stadium? Other than the railing being ripped out by some drunk guys, not really. There may have been some bent seats or benches, but that's because they were shitty aluminum benches and there were 2000 enthusiastic people jumping and cheering... clearly built for soccer moms that Columbus can't even draw to games.

What kills me is that having 2000 people show their support for the team on the road like that is SUCH an amazing story. The unity, the passion, the pride in being Canadian and the fact that we're all showing the MLS how it's done are all things that the media could latch on to and report and draw a lot of attention and ratings. However their clear agenda shows through when they ignore all of that and instead falsely report the very few negatives by blowing them up out of proportion.

I agree with others as well, I would actually rather they spend more time reporting on actual TFC, and not so much on the fans. I don't need to pat myself on the back for going and supporting my team. Report soccer like you report other sports.

Bluenose13
03-31-2009, 12:05 PM
What I saw.....

Fights broke out in the parking lot - A minor scuffle at the exit gate
Officers had to request assistance - Was not required but they did
Some people were tasered - Some no....1 yes
Some were arrested - Some no.....1 yes
At least a couple were taken to jail - couple no...1 yes
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs - Yep
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem - People were silent & respectful
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines No...but they were tossed out of the supporters section.
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below - This did happen.
Some bleacher seats damaged. Didn't see any but we were jumping & singing for 90 minutes so it's possible but not done on purpose.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers - It was used at the gate during the 1 scuffle & wasn't needed

billyfly
03-31-2009, 12:06 PM
When I read Toronto-Bhoy's post all I could think of was the Berenstain Bears "He or She"

We'll jump and dig and build and fly
There's nothing that we cannot try.
We can do all these things, you see,
Whether we are he or she!

https://www.inspire4less.com/productimages/9780679894261.jpg

Ratven
03-31-2009, 12:07 PM
http://www.thestar.com/article/610092

Makes no mention of any trouble. It took (over) 2 days for anything to trickle out thanks to YouTube.


Here's the problem as well, and it all comes back to ratings. This is an incredible article, covers the game, gives a nod to the fans, nothing sensational about it. However, no one cares about this article, I found myself skimming through it because it was linked here, but otherwise didn't really care because I was there and I know what happened.

The other articles however, are getting hits left right and center from everyone here because they're outraged. So not only will the Sun and whoever else keep putting those out because it's obviously working and drawing people to their paper, but it gives little incentive to the Star to continue putting out proper factual reports, and start sensationalizing themselves.

TFC Via Buffalo
03-31-2009, 12:14 PM
Were you there? Where is this "disrespect" to the US anthem coming from? I was in the middle of it and saw none of it. Did you?



The only disrespect I heard during the anthem were people talking during it. I wanted to say something to them(but didn't because I was just trying to have a good time) because, even at Sabres games, I sing "O'Canada" and have tons of respect for your anthem as much as mine. I just want the same respect shown. You don't even need to sing it, just shut up for a minute while it's played. Alot of you guys do sing the US anthem, and that is awesome and appreciated.

egoodwin
03-31-2009, 12:26 PM
Funny thing is that on Sunday the Sun ran a piece and contest on p2 proclaiming how TFC fans were the best in
TO

Toronto_Bhoy
03-31-2009, 12:27 PM
Here's the problem as well, and it all comes back to ratings. This is an incredible article, covers the game, gives a nod to the fans, nothing sensational about it. However, no one cares about this article, I found myself skimming through it because it was linked here, but otherwise didn't really care because I was there and I know what happened.

The other articles however, are getting hits left right and center from everyone here because they're outraged. So not only will the Sun and whoever else keep putting those out because it's obviously working and drawing people to their paper, but it gives little incentive to the Star to continue putting out proper factual reports, and start sensationalizing themselves.

BINGO!

Whoop
03-31-2009, 12:28 PM
The only disrespect I heard during the anthem were people talking during it. I wanted to say something to them(but didn't because I was just trying to have a good time) because, even at Sabres games, I sing "O'Canada" and have tons of respect for your anthem as much as mine. I just want the same respect shown. You don't even need to sing it, just shut up for a minute while it's played. Alot of you guys do sing the US anthem, and that is awesome and appreciated.

I remember at the start of the anthem some tried to sing over it or tried to mock it but we're quickly "told" to be quiet.

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 12:30 PM
What I saw.....

Fights broke out in the parking lot - A minor scuffle at the exit gate
Officers had to request assistance - Was not required but they did
Some people were tasered - Some no....1 yes
Some were arrested - Some no.....1 yes
At least a couple were taken to jail - couple no...1 yes
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs - Yep
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem - People were silent & respectful
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines No...but they were tossed out of the supporters section.
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below - This did happen.
Some bleacher seats damaged. Didn't see any but we were jumping & singing for 90 minutes so it's possible but not done on purpose.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers - It was used at the gate during the 1 scuffle & wasn't needed


QFT!!!!!

TFC Via Buffalo
03-31-2009, 12:31 PM
I remember at the start of the anthem some tried to sing over it or tried to mock it but we're quickly "told" to be quiet.

I know. Like with the rest of the fall out from this weekend, it's always the minority that gets noticed, not the majority.

smeghead
03-31-2009, 01:18 PM
A little snippet on city tv about the tasering. they are sensationalizing it pretty good. kinda sad.

Don Julio
03-31-2009, 01:19 PM
Supporters play events down, press plays them up. What a shock.

All supporters would do well to avoid taping and photographing trouble, and then posting on the web, and then posting links all over the place. This story is three days old. It is the supporters groups that have promoted the story.

ensco
03-31-2009, 01:19 PM
Why bother going back to Columbus anytime soon?

It's only one hour further to Chicago, 2 hours further to NY or Boston.

Which of these cities would you rather see?

T-Bird
03-31-2009, 01:21 PM
Despite all of this new negative media attention I still think you guys should be proud of yourselves and there are many Torontonians that are STILL proud despite this attention.

While watching the game the commentators took every chance they could to comment on how impressed they were with all of the support and even mentioned a few of the groups by name. I have since spoken with friends, family and co-workers who all know I am a huge fan of the game and they continue to comment on how great our fans are and because of the support you have all shown our team I am constantly asked by those who know nothing about football if I can get them seats so that they can experience the awesome atmosphere.

It is unfortunate that we have people in this city who are avid about bringing us down and giving us a bad name but in retaliation to their negativity we need to continue to have a positive attitude. I for one see this is an opportunity for us to prove them all wrong and go out and cheer even louder and harder...if that's even possible.

So keep your heads held high, your flags waving and your unsurpassable support at a fever pitch!

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 01:22 PM
I doubt we are going back. On the TFC side, we have a bitter taste in our mouth. And those hicks are too scared to have us back. They already said if we go back, no banners and flags.

Really?

Nice knowing ya Columbus, you won't be seeing my money anymore.

maninb
03-31-2009, 01:23 PM
"I wasn’t in Columbus but based on what I’ve read on this site from “first hand accounts” by those who were, by viewing the game on TV and internet video, even I can VERIFY most of the above as “true”."

"VERIFY'????? I call BULLSHIT on this....I was at the game and most of what BOTH of those 'journalists' said is complete fabrication, neither of them were there either...You are welcome to your 'opinion' but if it turns out it's a crock of sh*t, expect to be called out on it!

BuSaPuNk
03-31-2009, 01:24 PM
I doubt we are going back. On the TFC side, we have a bitter taste in our mouth. And those hicks are too scared to have us back. They already said if we go back, no banners and flags.

Really?

Nice knowing ya Columbus, you won't be seeing my money anymore.

Me as well. Wonder how they will react when 2000+ fans don't come and pump extra money into there economy.

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 01:31 PM
I doubt we are going back. On the TFC side, we have a bitter taste in our mouth. And those hicks are too scared to have us back. They already said if we go back, no banners and flags.

Really?

Nice knowing ya Columbus, you won't be seeing my money anymore.

I was pretty sure I wasn't going back BEFORE the weekend. I am now definitely not going back.

No flags, or banners? EAT IT Columbus, you aren't getting the $$$ from our 2000 supporters.

zamperina
03-31-2009, 01:32 PM
Our group talked about not going back either because of all the bullshit security. talking with some locals this happens everytime Ohio State Football plays so the cops are just conditioned from those experiences...

MFBODD
03-31-2009, 01:34 PM
This is turning into a sitcom episode where each charater reflects on their version of what happened.

Shit happens at sporting events.

Fort York Redcoat
03-31-2009, 01:35 PM
I was pretty sure I wasn't going back BEFORE the weekend. I am now definitely not going back.

No flags, or banners? EAT IT Columbus, you aren't getting the $$$ from our 2000 supporters.

Yeah we'll see next time. You don't want to see JC shush those bastards again?

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 01:36 PM
Of course we're going back.

We just like to say we're not. But at the end of the day it IS the cheapest TFC away there is.

God help us.

Ratven
03-31-2009, 01:40 PM
Of course we're going back.

We just like to say we're not. But at the end of the day it IS the cheapest TFC away there is.

God help us.

Until Montreal.

Bars92
03-31-2009, 01:46 PM
I'm going next year for sure!

Red CB Toronto
03-31-2009, 01:52 PM
The Star article from Sunday's paper is a great example of a who, what, where, when facts only gamer article. It was written by a writer not from Toronto who more or less would not know all the back story.

Douglas B. McIntyre, the writer is a free lancer that the Star used to save money, it meant not having to send one of their own down. He is a good footy writer having done stuff in the past for the New York Times, but most likely he is getting paid in the area of $100, maybe more to write a straight recap.

LondonToffee
03-31-2009, 01:52 PM
I'm going next year for sure!

Why wait until then? We're going back in July.

And in response to the articles, soccer is an easy target for lazy sensationalistic journalists. Some stuff happened in Columbus, nothing remotely close to what happens at your average NFL game, but some journalist knows that all soccer fans fight at games and so he's got another easy story and can check out of work at 2 PM again to go down to the pub. It's the same with the lazy journalists in the US who make fun of the NHL's attendance problems while ignoring the fact that they're drawing better than the NBA on average.

Don't like it? Don't read the Sun. People in Liverpool still are maintaining a boycott after what the British version of the Sun printed after Hillsborough and the paper has lost millions because of it. Complaining won't make them reconsider anything, but an organized boycott that hits them in the wallet sure will.

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 01:55 PM
I'm going next year for sure!

Were you there this year?

RedRum
03-31-2009, 02:00 PM
It makes me sad to hear you guys say you wont go back.

At the end of the day it's about supporting your team and each other. Forget about their shit security, cops, FO, and classless supporters. In the scheme of things they are just bumps in the road.

Cashcleaner
03-31-2009, 02:03 PM
I think I sorta get what Toronto Bhoy is saying. I do think we're getting painted in a negative light mostly because its soccer and people just expect hooliganism from it, but we're no angels either. Let's own up to the fact that some idiot did throw a railing over the stadium ledge. Some Toronto fans did go out of their way to instigate fights. Not everyone was involved, but some were. Personally, I think that a lot of what's been reported has been blown out of proportion, but in some ways our response has been as well and calling people out publicly doesn't help our argument. We seem to be constantly dredging up the subject when really we should just let things lie.

Bars92
03-31-2009, 02:05 PM
Were you there this year?

Nope. I'm a broke student right now, but July sounds about right:D

brad
03-31-2009, 02:07 PM
Of course we're going back.

We just like to say we're not. But at the end of the day it IS the cheapest TFC away there is.

God help us.

Philadelphia should be a cheaper option next year, I would think

Ratven
03-31-2009, 02:07 PM
I think I sorta get what Toronto Bhoy is saying. I do think we're getting painted in a negative light mostly because its soccer and people just expect hooliganism from it, but we're no angels either. Let's own up to the fact that some idiot did throw a railing over the stadium ledge. Some Toronto fans did go out of their way to instigate fights. Not everyone was involved, but some were. Personally, I think that a lot of what's been reported has been blown out of proportion, but in some ways our response has been as well and calling people out publically doesn't help our argument.

I agree with this. But it all comes down to proper training of security. I think the actual supporters groups should want to work with security both here and abroad as much as possible to make sure this stuff is taken care of, because you can only self police so much and within your own group, and even that people have problems with. Security definitely needs to be aware and on board to prevent this stuff from happening.

The railing throwing incident is inexcusable, because quite frankly it could've killed someone.

james
03-31-2009, 02:09 PM
who gives a shit what the news papper said. Some you guys worry to much, always just exspecting to here reports how great supporters we are. With so much good you always got to take a bit of bad along with it to. And calling the news papper and complain doesnt make things better. They put this shit in the papper to get peoples attention, and get popular hits. If everyone just ignores this shit then they stop writting about it.

Cashcleaner
03-31-2009, 02:10 PM
^^ Yeah, it really looks like the Columbus security guys dropped the ball again on this. They need to be more surgical in their actions. There's no need to move on a group of 20 guys if only 1 or 2 are causing a problem.

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 02:12 PM
Philadelphia should be a cheaper option next year, I would think

DUDE

DUDE!!!

You wanna talk riots and hooliganism wait till these mongrels join the league. Personaly I can't wait.

james
03-31-2009, 02:19 PM
i think we should stopping posting these threads about every negative thing that shows up in the papper! It just creates people getting all worked up and worried and start bitching about it and calling news writters to bitch at. So what some shit did happen, then things got taken out of proportion in articles but thats news papper articles for you. Read and forget about it and get on with your day!!!:D

brad
03-31-2009, 02:24 PM
DUDE

DUDE!!!

You wanna talk riots and hooliganism wait till these mongrels join the league. Personaly I can't wait.

I'm not talking about Hooliganism, I'm talking about which trip will be the cheapest.

james
03-31-2009, 02:28 PM
I'm not talking about Hooliganism, I'm talking about which trip will be the cheapest.

i think philly is over hyped about there fans. They do a few things in the passed and they are forever known as crazy mad fans.

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 02:29 PM
Nope. I'm a broke student right now, but July sounds about right:D

Count on it being nothing like this past weekend.

Whoop
03-31-2009, 02:34 PM
Meh.

Rather save money for New England and/or Seattle trip.

EAT IT Columbus!

billyfly
03-31-2009, 02:37 PM
Count on it being nothing like this past weekend.


You're correct Al-Mo. One of the main reasons I went was I had a feeling that this weekend would never be repeated (or at least not for a while).

Ratven
03-31-2009, 02:38 PM
Meh.

Rather save money for New England and/or Seattle trip.

EAT IT Columbus!

I would LOOOOVE to see 2000 go to Seattle, but it's not going to happen for a long time.

Ratven
03-31-2009, 02:41 PM
Watch for our little 3000 supporter road trip record to be broken when Portland gets into the MLS and Seattle people only have to drive less than 3 hours and not across an international border to see a game against their ACTUAL bitter historical rival.

Don Julio
03-31-2009, 02:44 PM
I would LOOOOVE to see 2000 go to Seattle, but it's not going to happen for a long time.

God willing it could happen a mere 8 months from now!

trane
03-31-2009, 02:45 PM
If they organize Seatle I am going.

jloome
03-31-2009, 02:47 PM
TFC supporters need to get thicker skins. This crying and whining after every negative article or radio piece is ridiculous…toughen up!

The two articles in today’s SUN by Lance Hornby and Gareth Wheeler are both viable forms of journalism. One deals with facts based on events and one on is opinion based on facts. They are two completely different stories, one reports…one editorializes.

Hornsby’s article is based on facts as he has found them.

Answer true or false to the following statements made in the Hornby article:


Fights broke out in the parking lot
Officers had to request assistance
Some people were tasered
Some were arrested
At least a couple were taken to jail
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below
Some bleacher seats damaged.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers


Hornsby is “reporting” based on information he has gathered…did these events happen…yes or no?

I wasn’t in Columbus but based on what I’ve read on this site from “first hand accounts” by those who were, by viewing the game on TV and internet video, even I can verify most of the above as “true”.

Lance goes on to quote Jack, I assume verbatim. That’s journalism.


Wheeler’s article is an editorial…his opinion.

His article is also based on fact, however, he states his personal opinion on those facts, some of which I totally agree with when you answer true or false:


It is embarrassing
It is just idiots hopped up on liquid courage
The majority of supporters were well behaved
The police and security aren’t free of blame
People got tasered! That’s serious.
They’re not hooligans…they’re idiots


The issue I have with Wheeler is positioning the Red Patch Boys as being responsible for the behaviour of TFC supporters. By quoting Jack/RPB in his editorial turns the focus on our group which was really unfair, like we control the actions of TFC fans. We are only responsible for our own and we have DO measures to deal with those in “our” group who decided to venture beyond the club rules.

Oh, and Jack is correct in stating (and I paraphrase), “Gareth, how we discipline our own is none of your fucking business!”

We DO need to self-police…if any RPB’s were part of the problems “reported” on the weekend…they don’t deserve to be members! And for those who ignore or turn a blind eye to RPB’s who engage in these activities…you too, are members we don’t need.

Guys, get use to this kind of media and roll with it. Supporters around the world have…time for us to do the same.

That's a nice sentiment, TB, but as someone who has worked as a journalist and editor for some 20 years, the reporting on this incident -- while typical for sports -- was woefully substandard.

Simply quoting someone from each side may technically constitute balance, but it does not equate to doing your job. Actually verifying your source information takes more than that.

Yes, much of what has been reported has some validity. But it was reported without respect to a) context. three arrests out of 15,000 people is not a riot or b) quality control. Multiple journalists actually quoted internet posters without even getting their real names. And there is no impartial observer sourcing, for the most part.

Don't confuse "the bare minimum" with "doing their job."

Naturegirl
03-31-2009, 03:16 PM
You know it KDot. All hell will break loose when they join and it will not be pretty most times. lol bring it on. then maybe they will leave TFC fans alone for once lol here's hoping that all supporters groups around the league can keep things in a positive light as we are the ones helping to progress the league and the fan base. We bring the atmosphere, hopefully in a good way....most times :)



DUDE

DUDE!!!

You wanna talk riots and hooliganism wait till these mongrels join the league. Personaly I can't wait.

a_billi
03-31-2009, 03:21 PM
I give a rats ass.
So should you.
If you don't give a rats ass about your reputation thats fine, but when it is being painted as a red patch boys trip, and red patch boys fault you're god damn right I care.
Instead of questioning us as to why we care about being painted with an unfair hand...look at yourself and think of why you don't care that you're being portrayed as a thoughtless drunk there to fight.

Why do you care what people think of Toronto supporters. Do you go to support TFC or or just to make friends and tell the world how "classy" you are. Fuck what they say who cares its the media they overhype everything. And everyone knows of 2000 people drunks go to a sporting event a fight or two is bound to happen. Some of you chicken little's are quite comical, you would choose to be presented as angels and "classy" fans in the media than support your own team. Who gives a fuck what they think so relax a little you wont be winning a noble prize anytime soon. And dont worry im sure the Columbus fans are still waiting for you to show them around the city and trade scarves. In conclusion FUCK WHAT THEY THINK ITS ALL ABOUT SUPPORTING TFC.
Some of you need to grow a pair, you guys are acting like 12 year old girl scouts if i brought my 13 year old cousin to the game he would been more manly then some of you.

Whoop
03-31-2009, 03:21 PM
Philly cheesesteaks!

james
03-31-2009, 03:24 PM
Guys, get use to this kind of media and roll with it. Supporters around the world have…time for us to do the same

So very true. So lets stop complainning. This is not the first or will it be the last time we have made the news for minor trouble casued at TFC games.

DoubleUp
03-31-2009, 03:30 PM
Supporter groups will always get bad press because society and law enforcement kno that, these groups are direct opposition to authority, and in the day and age of brainless, mindless, spineless sheeple:sheep:. When push comes to shove taking on supporter groups is like walkin the ledge:hand:

Benficachop20
03-31-2009, 03:30 PM
who cares wat a bunch of leaf fans think, their just as bitter right now because the leafs are gonna be officially out soon. Who cares wat puck heads think, they don't like the sport so they look for the tiniest negativity and make it much bigger then it is. Lets go to the home opener and bring the house down!!!!

el rojo fanatico
03-31-2009, 03:36 PM
It makes me sad to hear you guys say you wont go back.

At the end of the day it's about supporting your team and each other. Forget about their shit security, cops, FO, and classless supporters. In the scheme of things they are just bumps in the road.
Amen!!!!! it can't be that easy to push us away from our club. I've been on every Cloumbus trip, even when we went down with only one bus for the second trip in our first year. Personally I love getting pissed at O' Saughnessys and seeing a Blue Jackets game but the ONLY reason I go is to support the Reds.

GBV
03-31-2009, 03:52 PM
TFC supporters need to get thicker skins. This crying and whining after every negative article or radio piece is ridiculous…toughen up!

The two articles in today’s SUN by Lance Hornby and Gareth Wheeler are both viable forms of journalism. One deals with facts based on events and one on is opinion based on facts. They are two completely different stories, one reports…one editorializes.

Hornsby’s article is based on facts as he has found them.

Answer true or false to the following statements made in the Hornby article:


Fights broke out in the parking lot
Officers had to request assistance
Some people were tasered
Some were arrested
At least a couple were taken to jail
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below
Some bleacher seats damaged.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers


Hornsby is “reporting” based on information he has gathered…did these events happen…yes or no?

I wasn’t in Columbus but based on what I’ve read on this site from “first hand accounts” by those who were, by viewing the game on TV and internet video, even I can verify most of the above as “true”.

Lance goes on to quote Jack, I assume verbatim. That’s journalism.


Wheeler’s article is an editorial…his opinion.

His article is also based on fact, however, he states his personal opinion on those facts, some of which I totally agree with when you answer true or false:


It is embarrassing
It is just idiots hopped up on liquid courage
The majority of supporters were well behaved
The police and security aren’t free of blame
People got tasered! That’s serious.
They’re not hooligans…they’re idiots


The issue I have with Wheeler is positioning the Red Patch Boys as being responsible for the behaviour of TFC supporters. By quoting Jack/RPB in his editorial turns the focus on our group which was really unfair, like we control the actions of TFC fans. We are only responsible for our own and we have DO measures to deal with those in “our” group who decided to venture beyond the club rules.

Oh, and Jack is correct in stating (and I paraphrase), “Gareth, how we discipline our own is none of your fucking business!”

We DO need to self-police…if any RPB’s were part of the problems “reported” on the weekend…they don’t deserve to be members! And for those who ignore or turn a blind eye to RPB’s who engage in these activities…you too, are members we don’t need.

Guys, get use to this kind of media and roll with it. Supporters around the world have…time for us to do the same.

great post.

GBV
03-31-2009, 03:57 PM
Yes, much of what has been reported has some validity. But it was reported without respect to a) context. three arrests out of 15,000 people is not a riot or b) quality control. Multiple journalists actually quoted internet posters without even getting their real names. And there is no impartial observer sourcing, for the most part.

Don't confuse "the bare minimum" with "doing their job."

call me naive, but i would like to believe the world is one where people not fighting, vandalizing or getting arrested is "understood" and doesn't need to constantly be pointed out.

i don't think anyone really thinks everyone (or even the majority, or even a lot) were/was involved in what happened.

and wheeler made a point of this too.

TFC RealDeal RPB
03-31-2009, 03:58 PM
I agree with this. But it all comes down to proper training of security. I think the actual supporters groups should want to work with security both here and abroad as much as possible to make sure this stuff is taken care of, because you can only self police so much and within your own group, and even that people have problems with. Security definitely needs to be aware and on board to prevent this stuff from happening.

Thats right on . Why did Columbus' supporter come all the way over to us ? Security needs to make them go out a diffent gate or our supporters stay in there seat's untill there fan are gone.


P.s i like how they chant U.S.A U.S.A and also put a X over our flag :canada:

TFCREDNWHITE
03-31-2009, 04:07 PM
What I saw.....

Fights broke out in the parking lot - A minor scuffle at the exit gate
Officers had to request assistance - Was not required but they did
Some people were tasered - Some no....1 yes
Some were arrested - Some no.....1 yes
At least a couple were taken to jail - couple no...1 yes
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs - Yep
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem - People were silent & respectful
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines No...but they were tossed out of the supporters section.
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below - This did happen.
Some bleacher seats damaged. Didn't see any but we were jumping & singing for 90 minutes so it's possible but not done on purpose.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers - It was used at the gate during the 1 scuffle & wasn't needed



Thank you!! This is exactly what happened!!!

billyfly
03-31-2009, 05:12 PM
What I saw.....

Fights broke out in the parking lot - A minor scuffle at the exit gate
Officers had to request assistance - Was not required but they did
Some people were tasered - Some no....1 yes
Some were arrested - Some no.....1 yes
At least a couple were taken to jail - couple no...1 yes
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs - Yep
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem - People were silent & respectful
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines No...but they were tossed out of the supporters section.
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below - This did happen.
Some bleacher seats damaged. Didn't see any but we were jumping & singing for 90 minutes so it's possible but not done on purpose.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers - It was used at the gate during the 1 scuffle & wasn't needed



This is exactly what I saw. Dead on Geoff.

Chewy Unikronik
03-31-2009, 06:30 PM
All supporters would do well to avoid taping and photographing trouble, and then posting on the web, and then posting links all over the place. This story is three days old. It is the supporters groups that have promoted the story.
Thank you.

Toronto_Bhoy
03-31-2009, 08:16 PM
What I saw.....

Fights broke out in the parking lot - A minor scuffle at the exit gate
Officers had to request assistance - Was not required but they did
Some people were tasered - Some no....1 yes
Some were arrested - Some no.....1 yes
At least a couple were taken to jail - couple no...1 yes
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs - Yep
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem - People were silent & respectful
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines No...but they were tossed out of the supporters section.
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below - This did happen.
Some bleacher seats damaged. Didn't see any but we were jumping & singing for 90 minutes so it's possible but not done on purpose.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers - It was used at the gate during the 1 scuffle & wasn't needed


Okay, so the Hornby article isn't that far off.

Geoff, you know exactly where I'm going with this thread.

Fuck what the media say. This need that people have for "affirmation" from the mainstream just isn't important. I don't care about Wheeler, McCowan or Toth...their opinions don't matter to me (however, if it is to others, thats okay). The Italian, English and Scottish media crap all over supporters, tar them with the same brush and focus on the negative. Apparently we have the same problem. Let's get over it!

We, the TFC support, are extremely well respected by the Club, players and opponents, MLS front office and most teams around the league that only wish they had this kind of support.

Does any one really care about some ink stained hack or radio mouthpiece?

The best people to ensure the reputation of the TFC supporters are...TFC supporters...don't count on the media...they're too busy selling papers and ad airtime.

As soon as the term, "toughen up" is mentioned people go on the defensive...it doesn't mean lay down...it means we are going to be treated like supporters are around the world.

Just my opinion...

Bars92
03-31-2009, 08:22 PM
Do you think Rangers fans gave a crap when they wrecked Manchester and the BBC was chirping them??

Gixmo
03-31-2009, 08:22 PM
The only problem with all - I do not recall anything negative, inflammatory or disrespectful during the US anthem.. I just simply did not hear a whimper in our side. Sure, some people muttered a few words, but it was no different then a hockey game. The rest, is going to come with fame and fortune.

Either way, Maybe this can settle the 'Rivalry' debate.. :) Columbus is scared, we win by D-E-F-A-U-L-T....

I'll jump on the Bluenose bandwagon - That there is an accurate account of the events that occurred - Put that to print (Thanks Geoff, The tickets saved me at the border, Thank you!!!!!)

tfcmanu
03-31-2009, 09:27 PM
What I saw.....

Fights broke out in the parking lot - A minor scuffle at the exit gate
Officers had to request assistance - Was not required but they did
Some people were tasered - Some no....1 yes
Some were arrested - Some no.....1 yes
At least a couple were taken to jail - couple no...1 yes
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs - Yep
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem - People were silent & respectful
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines No...but they were tossed out of the supporters section.
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below - This did happen.
Some bleacher seats damaged. Didn't see any but we were jumping & singing for 90 minutes so it's possible but not done on purpose.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers - It was used at the gate during the 1 scuffle & wasn't needed
Bingo..Well Said!

james
03-31-2009, 09:37 PM
ya makes me kinda sad to when some you guys say you wont go back to Columbus jsut because a few comments were made about us in the papper. who cares, we gotta support TFC through thick and thin, and to me this was nothing.

jloome
03-31-2009, 09:49 PM
Okay, so the Hornby article isn't that far off.

Geoff, you know exactly where I'm going with this thread.

Fuck what the media say. This need that people have for "affirmation" from the mainstream just isn't important. I don't care about Wheeler, McCowan or Toth...their opinions don't matter to me (however, if it is to others, thats okay). The Italian, English and Scottish media crap all over supporters, tar them with the same brush and focus on the negative. Apparently we have the same problem. Let's get over it!

We, the TFC support, are extremely well respected by the Club, players and opponents, MLS front office and most teams around the league that only wish they had this kind of support.

Does any one really care about some ink stained hack or radio mouthpiece?

The best people to ensure the reputation of the TFC supporters are...TFC supporters...don't count on the media...they're too busy selling papers and ad airtime.

As soon as the term, "toughen up" is mentioned people go on the defensive...it doesn't mean lay down...it means we are going to be treated like supporters are around the world.

Just my opinion...

Well said. Sorry about that, I was mistakenly reading it as more of a pro-media thing, and the coverage was handled just atrociously by some.

torontocelt
03-31-2009, 10:09 PM
Do you think Rangers fans gave a crap when they wrecked Manchester and the BBC was chirping them??

I hope that most decent Rangers fans cared what people thought! What happened in Manchester was disgusting and dragged not only the name of Glasgow Rangers through the mud but it also damaged Scottish football as a whole and even the reputation of Scottish people. Watching a bunch of mindless idiots repeatedly kick a police officer over and over again while he was lying prone on the ground is not something I enjoyed watching and it must be said that I would say 99% of Rangers fans not only regretted the incidents but felt embarrassed that their club had been let down so badly by a bunch of drunk thugs.

What happened in Manchester and what happened in Columbus isn't even comparable. For what it is worth I would say that although a lot of people are angry at the press for their interpretation of what happened I am sure that a lot of people regret certain incidents which happened on Saturday. Incidents such as the railing being thrown by one idiot does not do the image of football and the football fan in general any good. For a sport that is trying to become established in North America all that incident did was reinforce the many prejudices that some North Americans have for the game. Many people do not want football to succeed in North America and football fans here should do everything they can to portray the sport in the best light possible and I am glad to say that the vast majority of TFC fans do this. Football however still needs all the help it can get to be successful in North America, what it doesn't need is a lot of negative press coverage for situations which were ultimately avoidable.

cmonyoureds
03-31-2009, 10:20 PM
What I saw.....

Fights broke out in the parking lot - A minor scuffle at the exit gate
Officers had to request assistance - Was not required but they did
Some people were tasered - Some no....1 yes
Some were arrested - Some no.....1 yes
At least a couple were taken to jail - couple no...1 yes
Some, but not all, were drunken boobs - Yep
(Some) were very disrespectful during the American anthem - People were silent & respectful
threw smoke bombs at the security guards on the sidelines No...but they were tossed out of the supporters section.
Part of a steel bleacher railing was pulled out by Toronto fans and thrown on a tent below - This did happen.
Some bleacher seats damaged. Didn't see any but we were jumping & singing for 90 minutes so it's possible but not done on purpose.
Mace or pepper spray was used to break up the scrappers - It was used at the gate during the 1 scuffle & wasn't needed


+1, most of which i saw first hand. Having said that, please don't take up journalism Bluenose, you'd never sell a paper with that attitude.

Bluenose13
03-31-2009, 10:28 PM
I hope that most decent Rangers fans cared what people thought! What happened in Manchester was disgusting and dragged not only the name of Glasgow Rangers through the mud but it also damaged Scottish football as a whole and even the reputation of Scottish people. Watching a bunch of mindless idiots repeatedly kick a police officer over and over again while he was lying prone on the ground is not something I enjoyed watching and it must be said that I would say 99% of Rangers fans not only regretted the incidents but felt embarrassed that their club had been let down so badly by a bunch of drunk thugs.

What happened in Manchester and what happened in Columbus isn't even comparable. For what it is worth I would say that although a lot of people are angry at the press for their interpretation of what happened I am sure that a lot of people regret certain incidents which happened on Saturday. Incidents such as the railing being thrown by one idiot does not do the image of football and the football fan in general any good. For a sport that is trying to become established in North America all that incident did was reinforce the many prejudices that some North Americans have for the game. Many people do not want football to succeed in North America and football fans here should do everything they can to portray the sport in the best light possible and I am glad to say that the vast majority of TFC fans do this. Football however still needs all the help it can get to be successful in North America, what it doesn't need is a lot of negative press coverage for situations which were ultimately avoidable.Excellent post !

Bluenose13
03-31-2009, 10:31 PM
+1, most of which i saw first hand. Having said that, please don't take up journalism Bluenose, you'd never sell a paper with that attitude.Haha.....Just don't tell Dan.......

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/611015

james
03-31-2009, 10:55 PM
I hope that most decent Rangers fans cared what people thought! What happened in Manchester was disgusting and dragged not only the name of Glasgow Rangers through the mud but it also damaged Scottish football as a whole and even the reputation of Scottish people. Watching a bunch of mindless idiots repeatedly kick a police officer over and over again while he was lying prone on the ground is not something I enjoyed watching and it must be said that I would say 99% of Rangers fans not only regretted the incidents but felt embarrassed that their club had been let down so badly by a bunch of drunk thugs.

It may be bad what Ranger fans did. But maybe its just me, but over the years i have seen so much from documentries about Argentina Hooligans, Italian, Ukrane and Poland and ive also seen every single Real Football Factory show and read books about Hooligans across Europe and have read quite alot of stuff about what goes on in Argentina. Stuff like Ranger fans kicking a cop is not even in comparrisom with what goes on in other countries, that incident doesn't really shine them in the light as the worst supporters around or make me think Scotland is a bad country casue of it. Thats almost minor incident compared to other stuff that goes on. But again that just me, maybe ive just herd to much to be suprised by anything in Soccer these days.

torontocelt
04-01-2009, 06:29 AM
Well is it right to judge one atrocity by another atrocity, an atrocity is still an atrocity no matter what way you look at it. Lets not forget also that some Rangers fans had running battles about with police in down town Manchester for several hours, destroying cars etc. I know that at least one opposing fan was killed, apparently being knifed just just outside the stadium. On top of that this largely kicked off because a tv broke in one of the designated watching areas outside the stadium. When someone came to fix and they were unable to do so some Rangers fans started to throw beer bottles at the guy.

I can honestly say that I myself have not seen footage as bad as what came out of Manchester for a very long time, way worse than the English at world cups throwing a few seats at opposition fans. Rangers already get a lot of bad press as do Celtic due to the religious aspects which in my opinion are a great burden to both clubs as it is used inappropriately so much. Rangers certainly did not need any of this bad press, neither did Scottish football. What should have been viewed as something which celebrated a success in Scottish football turned unto something that Scottish football would rather forget. Being Scottish myself I felt a great shame in watching some of my own countrymen do what they done as I am sure other Scots did also.