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Ben Knight
03-31-2009, 10:32 AM
Some thoughts on the media coverage of TFC fans - and an appeal for self-policing to weed out the railing throwers.

http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/03/31/both-sides-of-the-story/

Lucky Strike
03-31-2009, 10:52 AM
It's so unfortunate that I had to spend an hour ripping Wheeler for his text, and not as much time praising this one. Supporter groups do know what needs to be done, the problem we have is that the media all too often sensasionalize (I don't have to explain that to you - you know what it's about better than most of us) things. It's much faster to write an all-encompassing article slamming everyone and branding them hooligans than it is to find these people and take action.

If we could take action to sanction the rail-throwers before anyone had a chance to write about it, we would be praised for our action. But because this is not possible (it takes less time to write a piece, than it does to travel back to Toronto from Columbus), we will invariably get those persons after all this negative press, by which time it'll be too late. All people will see is that we had to be told to self-police, when we know this ourselves. Problem is, there are a lot of people who'd rather just criticize because it's easy and ignore the fact that finding these people will take at least a few days.

Mark in Ottawa
03-31-2009, 10:54 AM
"Can we all just do a slightly better job of protecting the fun? It would make it a whole lot easier for the media – and the Columbus cops – to single out the dangerous idiots from the vast majority of benign, happy ones."

^^ What he said !

King Jeff
03-31-2009, 10:58 AM
If I ever see another article mentioning Bob McCown and Barbarez in the same sentence, I'll eat my hat.

Nice job, Ben.

Wagner
03-31-2009, 11:04 AM
If I ever see another article mentioning Bob McCown and Barbarez in the same sentence, I'll eat my hat.

Nice job, Ben.

LOL...i thought you were joking...

Great Article Ben.

Now we just need Mr. Paul to stick up for us....
The Sun is a sponsor of TFC...he should maybe put a little pressure on them.

Snoop
03-31-2009, 11:06 AM
As always Ben, you state your thoughts eloquently and address the heart of the issue. You are not making excuses for the bad apples, at the same time you don't cast the blame on the majority of our traveling support.

I don't understand why you have not been asked to join all of these on-air debates. Could it be that you would add some reality and facts to Toth's and Wheeler's uninformed accusations.

Criticism from you, Ben, would be taken seriously by the RPB's because you are unbiased and well-informed. Criticism from those two schmucks just incites anger.

sulfur
03-31-2009, 11:23 AM
I'm terribly disappointed in the article. It's unbiased. It admits a lack of knowledge. It doesn't really go out of its way to bash anyone (except media folk).

Who the hell does the author think he is?

Media shouldn't write like that!

Duh.... of course I'm kidding. Great article Ben! :)

Barbarez
03-31-2009, 11:46 AM
Mr. Knight I dare you to stop being so paranoid and go back to writing half-assed player/game reviews.

Barbarez

MartinUtd
03-31-2009, 11:48 AM
Mr. Knight I dare you to stop being so paranoid and go back to writing half-assed player/game reviews.

Barbarez

Just curious (as you were named one of the extremes) what would you ideally like to see out of the media coverage of TFC?

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 11:54 AM
Just curious (as you were named one of the extremes) what would you ideally like to see out of the media coverage of TFC?

I know what I'd like. Analysis of the players, the team, and the league - with insight over and above the casual poster on this board, given that's what Ben does for a living. I'd like to see the kind of insight that we are supposed to get out of someone with media credientials. I praised Ben for a half decent analysis of the Columbus game, and now he's gone right back to square 1.

Naturegirl
03-31-2009, 11:57 AM
Well Done Ben and thankyou. It's now our job to make it right and pray to god that when i call all the clubs for our away tickets i don't a denial.

Barbarez
03-31-2009, 11:58 AM
First of all, this isn't TFC media coverage, Mr. Knight is glorifying hooliganism and encouraging it actually. By recognizing all the smoke, fights and other bullshit in his worthless article what do you think Mr. Knight is accomplishing? Douchebags are gonna read his drivel and gloat then do it again to see what Mr. Knight's and others reaction will be. Have you not learned anything from the British and their way of fighting this kinda crap Mr. Knight?

Naturegirl
03-31-2009, 11:59 AM
Mr. Knight I dare you to stop being so paranoid and go back to writing half-assed player/game reviews.

Barbarez


aaahhh barbie barbie!!! allow us some good press please lol we need it at the moment....and i still luv ya...wanker :D ;) c ya for a beer on saturday.

trane
03-31-2009, 12:06 PM
He names Barbarez. That is classic. I had to read it twice to see if I had missed read it.

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 12:07 PM
Just curious (as you were named one of the extremes) what would you ideally like to see out of the media coverage of TFC?

Cover the Game not the crowd.

period. end of convo.

FYI

You think I like inhaling a pack full of matches with every single smoke bomb? Fuck no, But it looks cool as shit. So I'm going to keep going with it.

MartinUtd
03-31-2009, 12:21 PM
Yeah fair comment.
No press is better than bad press.

Blizzard
03-31-2009, 01:19 PM
Cover the Game not the crowd.

period. end of convo.

FYI

You think I like inhaling a pack full of matches with every single smoke bomb? Fuck no, But it looks cool as shit. So I'm going to keep going with it.

He's a blogger. You want game reports, go to the regular media. Blogs are opinion pieces.

B

denime
03-31-2009, 01:33 PM
Hay Barbie next time we go there we will give them a little bit of this.

First they stopped the game:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gsEMeKvVR0I&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gsEMeKvVR0I&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

and than their team scores 3 goals in 12 minutes,that's how you make away game to have home filed advantage :)

PS Commentator is fucking crazy,I wish we have someone with this kind of passion covering our games.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CjcwtjdQbdI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CjcwtjdQbdI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Cheers

nfitz
03-31-2009, 02:06 PM
You think I like inhaling a pack full of matches with every single smoke bomb? Fuck no, But it looks cool as shit. So I'm going to keep going with it.So let me get this straight - Red Patch Boys are condoning the use of smoke bombs?

Rudi
03-31-2009, 02:09 PM
So let me get this straight - Red Patch Boys are condoning the use of smoke bombs?
How did you come to this conclusion?

nfitz
03-31-2009, 02:13 PM
How did you come to this conclusion?Perhaps I totally misread that, but KdotOdot said
But it looks cool as shit. So I'm going to keep going with it. I assumed he meant throwing smoke bombs ... perhaps I'm just totally missing something ...

TFCREDNWHITE
03-31-2009, 02:36 PM
Cover the Game not the crowd.

period. end of convo.

FYI

You think I like inhaling a pack full of matches with every single smoke bomb? Fuck no, But it looks cool as shit. So I'm going to keep going with it.

+1!

Thank You. I fully agree.

Smoke bombs don't hurt anybody and they look cool as shit!

Phil
03-31-2009, 02:49 PM
So let me get this straight - Red Patch Boys are condoning the use of smoke bombs?


Guys are allowed to have their own opinions without it being the stance of the group.

LondonToffee
03-31-2009, 02:50 PM
Two things need to be done going forward.

1. The idiots who do stupid, dangerous or illegal things at matches need to have their privileges to attend matches revoked. It is not too difficult to identify and ban people from attending through the use of CCTV and keeping the front offices league-wide abreast of the situation.

2. MLS needs to learn a lesson from the rest of the world on how to handle away support and crowd control.

Those two things will solve 99.9% of the problems.

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 02:55 PM
What problems?

maninb
03-31-2009, 02:58 PM
+1!

Thank You. I fully agree.

Smoke bombs don't hurt anybody and they look cool as shit!


What he was saying was the smoke bombs LEAD to flares....and you're wrong...smoke hurts people with breathing conditions...

SilentSam
03-31-2009, 03:06 PM
+1!

Thank You. I fully agree.

Smoke bombs don't hurt anybody and they look cool as shit!

I disagree. I like to watch the football game, not smoke.

Naturegirl
03-31-2009, 03:06 PM
What problems?


lmao aaahhh

denime
03-31-2009, 03:11 PM
Two things need to be done going forward.

1. The idiots who do stupid, dangerous or illegal things at matches need to have their privileges to attend matches revoked. It is not too difficult to identify and ban people from attending through the use of CCTV and keeping the front offices league-wide abreast of the situation.

2. MLS needs to learn a lesson from the rest of the world on how to handle away support and crowd control.

Those two things will solve 99.9% of the problems.

I really hope they will,than we will be able to do like the guys from my last post,just 6 posts above yours.
Hint: first youtube video ;)

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 03:15 PM
LOL C'mon. People are acting like smoke bombs are going off throughout the whole 90 minutes not just for 3-5.

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 03:16 PM
What he was saying was the smoke bombs LEAD to flares....and you're wrong...smoke hurts people with breathing conditions...

the same way marijuana leads to heroin. I get it.

ensco
03-31-2009, 03:23 PM
PS Commentator is fucking crazy,I wish we have someone with this kind of passion covering our games.

Cheers

he sounds like he's had about 8 million cigarettes, and electroshock therapy

Carts
03-31-2009, 03:24 PM
LOL C'mon. People are acting like smoke bombs are going off throughout the whole 90 minutes not just for 3-5.

I just wish those 3-5 minutes weren't while Sutton was in our end...

I'd say its not the best thing to toss them into the box, while he's trying to keep us in a 1-0 game...

The ones in the crowd, probably don't affect him that much - but the ones that landed in the box - they cause a distraction, and the slightest distraction can lead to a goal against...

Carts...

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 03:29 PM
Look I'm not saying that tossing shit at Greg was suppose to happen. I'm making a general statement about smoke shows.

Shit got out of hand but Greg sucked t up like a fucking professional and future TFC legend he is.

nfitz
03-31-2009, 03:39 PM
Guys are allowed to have their own opinions without it being the stance of the group.Surely someone advocating throwing smoke bombs that make it more difficult for our own keeper should be censored by the group!

Pookie
03-31-2009, 03:40 PM
Smoke bombs - flares - small explosions at critical points during the match... that was the escalation in Italy circa 1980... is that the goal here?

The funny thing is that MLS is played predominantly in the USA, a culture that takes a pretty hard look at anything with the word "bomb" in it. Even mentioning that word in an airport can get you put away with no trial date in your near future.

So, yeah.. go for your anarchy and enjoy the fruits of your labour. I'll take your tickets.

cementhead
03-31-2009, 03:41 PM
Anyone who throw a guardrail my way again is go to get a boot in the ass!Second there was someone that was going to burn a Columbus scarf in front of me and I told him to get loss.Oh and thank for all the smoke bombs and the flare that land beside.

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 03:42 PM
yes yes you're right because I was advocating throwing smoke at our own keeper.

Jack..Roogsy...shutter..PARKDALE.....ANYBODY!!!!!

STOP ME BEFORE I ADVOCATE SINGING IN DERO'S EAR DURING A CORNER KICK!!!

I...can't...help...myself....ARGH!!

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 03:44 PM
Smoke bombs - flares - small explosions at critical points during the match... that was the escalation in Italy circa 1980... is that the goal here?

The funny thing is that MLS is played predominantly in the USA, a culture that takes a pretty hard look at anything with the word "bomb" in it. Even mentioning that word in an airport can get you put away with no trial date in your near future.

So, yeah.. go for your anarchy and enjoy the fruits of your labour. I'll take your tickets.

You want to take care of this KDot? ;)

alexintoronto
03-31-2009, 03:49 PM
No one threw anything at Sutton on purpose.

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 03:50 PM
BAHAHAHHAHA.

He has a point. Security in Columbus, Montreal, Chicago, New York, Boston, L.A., Seattle, Utah, Vancouver(2011), houston, Kansas, will all have the power to take my TFC season tickets if I set off smoke in their stadiums.

I hear it is possible. Pookie said it so he knows it's real.

JonO
03-31-2009, 03:57 PM
yes yes you're right because I was advocating throwing smoke at our own keeper.

Jack..Roogsy...shutter..PARKDALE.....ANYBODY!!!!!

STOP ME BEFORE I ADVOCATE SINGING IN DERO'S EAR DURING A CORNER KICK!!!

I...can't...help...myself....ARGH!!
:rofl:

Dude... keep it coming...

Pookie
03-31-2009, 03:58 PM
BAHAHAHHAHA.

He has a point. Security in Columbus, Montreal, Chicago, New York, Boston, L.A., Seattle, Utah, Vancouver(2011), houston, Kansas, will all have the power to take my TFC season tickets if I set off smoke in their stadiums.


Ahh, sheltered world. Clearly, never in the history of football violence have "ultras" been restricted from travelling as a result of their actions on the road.

Clearly, never in the history of the United States have they ever looked even slightly disapprovingly upon a person bringing fireworks/explosives into a crowded venue.

Clearly, though BMO has a policy around the use of smoke bombs/fireworks and flares, they would never choose to enforce it despite the widespread public opinion against this. MLSEL does not exist to make a profit and appease sponsors/community.

I do promise though not to ever scalp your tickets. They will be enjoyed

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 04:04 PM
Ahh, sheltered world. Clearly, never in the history of football violence have "ultras" been restricted from travelling as a result of their actions on the road.

Clearly, never in the history of the United States have they ever looked even slightly disapprovingly upon a person bringing fireworks/explosives into a crowded venue.

Clearly, though BMO has a policy around the use of smoke bombs/fireworks and flares, they would never choose to enforce it despite the widespread public opinion against this. MLSEL does not exist to make a profit and appease sponsors/community.

I do promise though not to ever scalp your tickets. They will be enjoyed

Have you ever seen anything at BMO close to the smoke in Columbus this past weekend?

KdotOdot
03-31-2009, 04:05 PM
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Clearly the away support in the MLS is equal to Ultras support all around Europe.
Clearly Craigs List might have tickets to the home opener and all future games.

Blizzard
03-31-2009, 04:13 PM
BAHAHAHHAHA.

He has a point. Security in Columbus, Montreal, Chicago, New York, Boston, L.A., Seattle, Utah, Vancouver(2011), houston, Kansas, will all have the power to take my TFC season tickets if I set off smoke in their stadiums.

I hear it is possible. Pookie said it so he knows it's real.

Remember. This is a single entity league. The league owns the majority of all the clubs. If they want to ban somebody, they can do it. MLSE owns less than half of TFC. If the league decided to go that route, they can do it.

Pookie
03-31-2009, 04:13 PM
In seriousness, nothing ever close to that which is why I'm curious as to why some would choose to support that on the road and appear to advocate for it at home. Quite frankly, I've seen worse fan behaviour at OHL playoff games lately.

---

Clearly, the level of "support" is not the same but actions may be. Clearly, all "ultras" in Europe have found ways around any imposed restrictions (including border crossings) and can move about, whenever and wherever they choose. No issues at all with entering stadiums.... ever.

Clearly, the one nuisance about these eventual seats will be the CCTV which is currently locked on that row and seat.

Dave67
03-31-2009, 04:19 PM
Remember. This is a single entity league. The league owns the majority of all the clubs. If they want to ban somebody, they can do it. MLSE owns less than half of TFC. If the league decided to go that route, they can do it.


They might be able to do it, they are in no way setup to enforce it. I mean they could take your seasons but in no way is this league set up to stop someone from entering a stadium... technology wise that is.

Blizzard
03-31-2009, 04:22 PM
They might be able to do it, they are in no way setup to enforce it. I mean they could take your seasons but in no way is this league set up to stop someone from entering a stadium... technology wise that is.

Yes, probably true.

Pookie
03-31-2009, 04:23 PM
They might be able to do it, they are in no way setup to enforce it. I mean they could take your seasons but in no way is this league set up to stop someone from entering a stadium... technology wise that is.

It doesn't have to be a stadium thing. They could restrict your travel in other ways.

Eg. You don't think that USA has the ability to restrict who enters their country?

nfitz
03-31-2009, 04:26 PM
He has a point. Security in Columbus, Montreal, Chicago, New York, Boston, L.A., Seattle, Utah, Vancouver(2011), houston, Kansas, will all have the power to take my TFC season tickets if I set off smoke in their stadiums.If your blitzed enough that you keep throwing smoke bombs at our own keeper - and/or can't figure out not to piss upwind - then hopefully one of your "friends" turns you season tickets over to the club, before you cost us a game!

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 04:34 PM
Okay this thread got really stupid, really quickly. Some people are worried the sky is falling.

For all of the people who are talking about season tickets being taken away, have you ever seen a display like this at BMO?

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 04:35 PM
The answer is NO! And there is a reason this was done on the road and not at BMO.

sulfur
03-31-2009, 04:36 PM
Season 1. Smoker on the field. Burning plastic turf.

It does appear that people have learned since. :)

Blizzard
03-31-2009, 04:39 PM
Season 1. Smoker on the field. Burning plastic turf.

It does appear that people have learned since. :)

Of course, smoke bombs wouldn't have burned the turf. Some idiots threw road flares if you'll recall.

AL-MO
03-31-2009, 04:43 PM
Season 1. Smoker on the field. Burning plastic turf.

It does appear that people have learned since. :)

Of course, and as Blizzard said above it was a road flare. But there has been nothing to the scale of what happened in Columbus at BMO.

Pookie
03-31-2009, 04:44 PM
The answer is NO! And there is a reason this was done on the road and not at BMO.

I think the reason that you are seeing a rise out of people is:

a) it appears that a few are advocating for the continued use of flares/smoke bombs

b) quite a few of us felt that it could have interferred with the outcome of the match...

c) we missed out on the playoffs by just 4 points and quite a few were handed away in the late stages of games

d) most fans have all been lumped in together, very negatively, in the local media

e) comments have been taken from this board and blogs to paint a very negative picture of something that the majority of us hold positive

f) some people, home and away, have real health issues with the use of them

The sky isn't falling. BMO is an incredibly safe place to watch a game. As I said above, I've experienced worse at OHL games.

Butwhen I see public comments about "how cool it looks" and apparent support for their continued use, I think it is my duty to stand up and be counted amongst the majority that see no place for this and would love to see tickets and travel priviledges revoked from wanna be Football Factory stars.

sulfur
03-31-2009, 04:46 PM
Of course, smoke bombs wouldn't have burned the turf. Some idiots threw road flares if you'll recall.
Ah, my bad. I couldn't remember what it was. Just the stupidity of it. :)

TFCREDNWHITE
03-31-2009, 05:24 PM
I disagree. I like to watch the football game, not smoke.

I was at the game, the smoke bombs was like 3-5 mins tops!!

Cry me a river...:rolleyes:

TFCREDNWHITE
03-31-2009, 05:32 PM
I think the reason that you are seeing a rise out of people is:

a) it appears that a few are advocating for the continued use of flares/smoke bombs

b) quite a few of us felt that it could have interferred with the outcome of the match...

c) we missed out on the playoffs by just 4 points and quite a few were handed away in the late stages of games

d) most fans have all been lumped in together, very negatively, in the local media

e) comments have been taken from this board and blogs to paint a very negative picture of something that the majority of us hold positive

f) some people, home and away, have real health issues with the use of them

The sky isn't falling. BMO is an incredibly safe place to watch a game. As I said above, I've experienced worse at OHL games.

Butwhen I see public comments about "how cool it looks" and apparent support for their continued use, I think it is my duty to stand up and be counted amongst the majority that see no place for this and would love to see tickets and travel priviledges revoked from wanna be Football Factory stars.


.....Cry me a river.... I was at the Columbus Game, and it was awesome! Like KDot and Al-Mo said it was done on the road for a reason!

You need to go back to your fantasyland of Rainbows, Lollipops and Unicorns...

It was a smoke bomb(s) for like 3-5 mins! Thats it!. Period. Get over it.

Workie
03-31-2009, 05:52 PM
.....

It was a smoke bomb(s) for like 3-5 mins! Thats it!. Period. Get over it.

That puts it just about right.

Face it we have known we couldn't be the golden fans for long. We have been getting set up to fail for ages. People have been just waiting to pounce when another group comes along.

Hell how many times have we asked NOT to be thrown DIRECTLY into the opposing fans after a game. Yet each time they are there waiting.

Nice article Ben I do wish you could have been there. It wound have been nice to have one Journalist to give an opinion of this from actual accounts. Regardless if we would have liked what we read, just one person stating what happened would have been nice.

Workie
03-31-2009, 05:56 PM
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Clearly the away support in the MLS is equal to Ultras support all around Europe.
.

LOL

Remind me not to be anywhere near you should you make that sarcastic point around Europe. :D

:drinking:

P.S. Reading this enjoying one of the Carlsburg ya left me.

backbeat
03-31-2009, 06:03 PM
FIFA Code of Conduct - There's a reason for it

4. Prohibited Items
Unless otherwise authorized by the FIFA World Cup Authorities in writing, Stadium Visitors and Accredited Persons are not permitted to use, possess, hold or bring into the Stadium the following Prohibited Items:


a) weapons of any kind;
b) anything that could be used as a weapon or to cut, thrust or stab, or as a projectile, in particular long umbrellas and other unwieldy implements;
c) bottles, cups, jugs or cans of any kind as well as other objects made from PET, glass or any other fragile, non-shatterproof or especially tough material or Tetrapak packaging, hard cooler boxes;
d) fireworks, flares, smoke powder, smoke canisters, smoke bombs or other pyrotechnics;

Pookie
03-31-2009, 06:45 PM
.....Cry me a river.... I was at the Columbus Game, and it was awesome! Like KDot and Al-Mo said it was done on the road for a reason!

You need to go back to your fantasyland of Rainbows, Lollipops and Unicorns...

It was a smoke bomb(s) for like 3-5 mins! Thats it!. Period. Get over it.

If it is just a smoke bomb for 3-5 mins, try it at BMO and we look forward to seeing your tickets on the exchange.

Since you feel no issue with it being done on the road, please feel free to enjoy any of the consequences that being caught with explosive devices in a crowd of people will net you.

Phil
03-31-2009, 06:51 PM
Lets end the smoke comments now, it been debated to death. Everyone attending BMO knows the rules.

At the end of the day, some people like it some don't. Now lets get back to Ben's topic.

BakaGaijin
03-31-2009, 06:56 PM
FIFA Code of Conduct - There's a reason for it

4. Prohibited Items
Unless otherwise authorized by the FIFA World Cup Authorities in writing, Stadium Visitors and Accredited Persons are not permitted to use, possess, hold or bring into the Stadium the following Prohibited Items:


a) weapons of any kind;
b) anything that could be used as a weapon or to cut, thrust or stab, or as a projectile, in particular long umbrellas and other unwieldy implements;
c) bottles, cups, jugs or cans of any kind as well as other objects made from PET, glass or any other fragile, non-shatterproof or especially tough material or Tetrapak packaging, hard cooler boxes;
d) fireworks, flares, smoke powder, smoke canisters, smoke bombs or other pyrotechnics;


Don't they hand these out......(usually filled with adult beverages)by the thousands at BMO Field? :rolleyes:

sulfur
03-31-2009, 07:08 PM
Don't they hand these out......(usually filled with adult beverages)by the thousands at BMO Field? :rolleyes:
Not made of the materials listed about 10 words later they don't.

rocker
03-31-2009, 07:27 PM
jugs or cans of any kind



my girlfriend isn't allowed in then? geez, come on FIFA!

Workie
03-31-2009, 08:23 PM
If it is just a smoke bomb for 3-5 mins, try it at BMO and we look forward to seeing your tickets on the exchange.


Man where do you people come from?

Oh right.... I'm reading the interwebz......:drinking:

backbeat
03-31-2009, 09:05 PM
Lets end the smoke comments now, it been debated to death. Everyone attending BMO knows the rules.

At the end of the day, some people like it some don't. Now lets get back to Ben's topic.

Actually Ben's article is what i was referring to...and him - to quote from his article:

"Denial – alas – is a big part of all of this. My personal aversion to smoke dates back to the crushing remembered suffocating pain of an asthmatic childhood. But there’s a deeper point that’s going missing in this entire post-match debacle debate.

It’s not about the smoke. It’s about the flares that inevitably follow once a group of fans decide smoke is okay. Those are dangerous beyond words. That torrent of smoke in the south end on Saturday will – soon – produce flares. Escalation is a normal, predictable part of mob behavior, and everyone who’s quiet about it now will have been a consenting, contributing factor when something horrible finally happens

Folks, I get it. I’m part of it. I love it. If the hard-liners think I’m a wanker, I’ll take that as a compliment, thanks

Can we all just do a slightly better job of protecting the fun? It would make it a whole lot easier for the media – and the Columbus cops – to single out the dangerous idiots from the vast majority of benign, happy ones."

-Ben Knight

again FIFA bans them, Ben writes about it in his article as an issue, BMO bans them and not just for plastic turf - it is because they are dangerous or lead that way - period, full stop. there is no debate except here; and if we want to continue we'll end up not only in the press negatively but booted from stadiums.

nfitz
03-31-2009, 09:26 PM
It was a smoke bomb(s) for like 3-5 mins! Thats it!. Period. Get over it.You were throwing the things at our keeper - or at least slighly upwind of our keeper.

If you had to use them, why on earth didn't you use them during the first half, rather than risking having a goal scored against us?

mighty_torontofc_2008
03-31-2009, 09:36 PM
LOL C'mon. People are acting like smoke bombs are going off throughout the whole 90 minutes not just for 3-5.


they should not be going off at all!! people who throw these are CRIMINALS and should be dealt as such.

denime
03-31-2009, 09:40 PM
they should not be going off at all!! people who throw these are CRIMINALS and should be dealt as such.

And you are complete [.....] you fill between the brackets.
Hint genius is not the right answer.

RedRum
03-31-2009, 09:44 PM
You're wasting your time.
You're wasting your time.
Go solve a real crime
You're wasting you're time.

backbeat
03-31-2009, 09:53 PM
There is such a thing as time well wasted…..
In a way I could care less
My seats are mid-field –I like to watch the flow of the game
I do love the south end
I’d just hate it to be overly dictated to because the few didn’t get it
'cause you guys help to make it
But whatever, I’ll still watch the flow
And love it when my reds win….

cmonyoureds
03-31-2009, 10:03 PM
smoke was great
smoke

ensco
03-31-2009, 10:10 PM
There is such a thing as time well wasted…..
In a way I could care less
My seats are mid-field –I like to watch the flow of the game
I do love the south end
I’d just hate it to be overly dictated to because the few didn’t get it
'cause you guys help to make it
But whatever, I’ll still watch the flow
And love it when my reds win….

Holy smokes, that might be the top post of 2009 so far.
Is that iambic pentameter, or some sort of modified haiku?

cmonyoureds
03-31-2009, 10:10 PM
Ben's article pretty good, but why do we bother attempting to understand or take on the media? We all know if it "bleeds it leads". Or at least that's what the Channel 4 guys in Columbus told me while filming and laughing at the "crazies". Anyhow.....

smoke was great
smoke on field idiotic
railing that went over - deserving of whatever punishment they came up with
any other "vandalism" on grounds - unacceptable

the other half of the story

Columbus staff 50/50. Some perfectly pleasant, others, well direct quote "get your f** a** out of the stadium, I don't care whether you're doing anything or not" within sight and hearing of a family with kids to two supporters waiting for mess to stop before making their way out

Columbus police. 50/50. Some perfectly pleasant, others, well another direct quote "if there weren't so many f** cameras we could really show them how we take care of things here."

Pookie
04-01-2009, 07:27 AM
Man where do you people come from?

Oh right.... I'm reading the interwebz......:drinking:

Could you offer up any counter points or is that all you've got?

(reminder of the issues: safety and brilliance in distracting/impairing the vision of your keeper on a team that blew a number of games late last season)

KdotOdot
04-01-2009, 08:25 AM
Hey genius. THE SMOKE ON THE FEILD WAS AN ACCIDENT!!!! GET OVER IT!!

Look at Supporters ALL OVER THE WORLD that use smoke in their tifos. Are they all hooligans and reckless without regard for otherds safety?

Dude. It's obvious you're here to troll. If you don't want to follow along with the group you shouldn't be there...oh thats right..you weren't there!

Heathen
04-01-2009, 08:31 AM
The smoke was :cool: smoke and flares :cool::cool:

Pookie
04-01-2009, 09:38 AM
Hey genius. THE SMOKE ON THE FEILD WAS AN ACCIDENT!!!! GET OVER IT!!

Look at Supporters ALL OVER THE WORLD that use smoke in their tifos. Are they all hooligans and reckless without regard for otherds safety?

Dude. It's obvious you're here to troll. If you don't want to follow along with the group you shouldn't be there...oh thats right..you weren't there!

According to FIFA and BMO, yes they are reckless. Hence the ban.

Are the lighting of smoke bombs/flares by individuals in this case considered a TIFO? If you are claiming that the use of pyrotechnics in a crowd was a pre-planned, coordinated action... well, that's a pretty big can of worms that I'm not sure you want to open.

I am amazed that you don't get the correlation to your stance of support for this and the negative publicity that is going to result in the security measures you fear so much.

Look despite your personal tone in arguing, when all is said and done, we both support the same team. First pint is on me.

Jack
04-01-2009, 09:43 AM
Guys, the smoke debate is one that we've done over and over and 'round and 'round on this board.

There are people who are passionately against just as there are people who are passionately in favour. Neither side is going to win the argument.

alexintoronto
04-01-2009, 09:46 AM
If you aren't going to chant/sing, if you're going to complain about smoke, if you're going to complain about someone waving a flag the whole game - do you think you should be in the supporter's section on the road? Instead of complaining about all those things just sit somewhere else. = Everyone's happy.

denime
04-01-2009, 09:50 AM
If you aren't going to chant/sing, if you're going to complain about smoke, if you're going to complain about someone waving a flag the whole game - do you think you should be in the supporter's section on the road? Instead of complaining about all those things just sit somewhere else. = Everyone's happy.

Well, now I have to complain :)

I think someone waving a flag the whole game is not cool at all. :p