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denime
03-31-2009, 05:37 AM
Mornin'


TFC players weigh in on needs of national squad
Big-name coach, better funding essential for future success, pair say
Daniel Girard

The last time Canada was looking for a new men's soccer coach, Dwayne De Rosario pushed for the hiring of Brazilian Rene Simoes.
But in the end, the board of the Canadian Soccer Association didn't hire the man who led Jamaica to an unlikely appearance in the 1998 World Cup, apparently because he wanted to bring in his own support staff and that was too expensive.
So, Canadian Dale Mitchell got the job in May 2007. He led the team to a 0-4-2 record in the semifinals of CONCACAF World Cup qualifying last fall and was fired on Friday.

Read More (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/610841)


Reds seeing fortunes change in 2009
TFC working to leave behind late-game woes of last season.

TORONTO -- Toronto FC was plagued by a number of bad breaks at the end of games last season that turned wins into draws and draws into losses. Against Columbus last Saturday, however, this late-game misfortune turned into Miss Fortune, as this time it was TFC who benefitted from a costly error by the opposition. A Dwayne De Rosario free kick in the 84th minute sailed into the Columbus penalty and was met by Crew defender Gino Padula. When Padula leapt into the air for a header, however, the ball struck his head at just the right angle to bounce backwards and off and under the bar of the Columbus goal.

Read More (http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090330&content_id=233142&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)


The crowd goes wild
Some TFC fans arrested, Tasered, after game in Columbus, Ohio
By LANCE HORNBY (lance.hornby@sunmedia.ca)

They are the "12th man" for Toronto FC, the big reason the team found instant fan appeal and why BMO Field is the place to be for a memorable game experience.
But some TFC supporters gave themselves and the club, a black eye in Columbus, Ohio on Saturday with behaviour that led to brawls, police stun guns and even condemnation from Toronto fans who were at the 1-1 game against the hometown Crew.
"My information is that as fans were leaving, several fights broke out in the parking lot and the special duty officers had to request assistance," Rich Weiner, public information officer with the Columbus Police Department, said yesterday.

Read More (http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2009/03/31/8946131-sun.html)


Simply embarrassing
TFC fans involved in Columbus ruckus not hooligans, just idiots hopped up on liquid courage
By GARETH WHEELER (gareth.wheeler@suntv.canoe.ca)

At a time Toronto FC fans should be celebrating the team's promising start to the season, they get a black eye for behaviour off the field.
A small group of so-called Toronto FC "fans" among the 2,000 travelling supporters embarrassed the city and the soccer club Saturday, getting into altercations with Columbus Crew fans and police.
Let's be clear: The majority of supporters were well-behaved, passionate and in Columbus for the right reasons.

Read More (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/othersports/2009/03/31/8946366-sun.html)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/) :)

(lance.hornby@sunmedia.ca)

Wagner
03-31-2009, 05:49 AM
Was Gareth Wheeler at the Game?
Use of Anonymous quotes?
Then I realized...it was posted in the Sun...and it didn't matter anymore.

And good work by Jack trying to get our side out there.
Although those "journalists" seemed to have had their minds made up before they even wrote that piece.
I'd like to invite them to come on a road trip with us.

GBV
03-31-2009, 06:13 AM
Breakfast Television just showed the taser youtube vid.

CoachGT
03-31-2009, 06:56 AM
Funny, I know a large number of the RPB folks and guys from other supporters groups stayed in the stadium chanting well after the game ended, and many watched John Carver's press conference on the big screen behind us. From there, most walked out right onto the awaiting buses. We could see from above that there were a few altercations, but where the two groups met together coming from a common stairwell. The stadium was pretty much empty except for us when I left.

The sensationalism is pretty disappointing. There's probably as much happens in the stands at the average large sporting event but doesn't get reported on, whether it is at a college football game, pro hockey game, pro football game or any other sport, whether in Canada or the US.

Jack
03-31-2009, 06:57 AM
Wow. Disappointing article from Gareth, calling out our charter like that with very little knowledge of what we do.

He asked me about our discipline and he asked me if we had ever kicked any members out for a breach of discipline. Frankly, that's none of anyone's business but our own.

Lot's of conjecture, but little knowledge of how the group works.

Gareth, it's disappointing that you choose to drag our name through the mud like that and associate our actions with the actions of a few idiots.

CoachGT
03-31-2009, 07:00 AM
Jack, good on ya for the quotes you did provide. I just hope the "story" doesn't become bigger.

No mention anywhere of Jimmy B becoming the first player on TFC over 5000 minutes, huh?

JonO
03-31-2009, 07:05 AM
The most ridiculous point from the Wheeler article:

Fans fight at other sporting events. The popular comparison around these parts is a Buffalo Bills game. That comparison's unfair. Fights at Bills games happen between individuals and/or small groups.

When TFC is travelling en masse by the hundreds, an all-for-one mentality takes over.
There was no all-for-one mentality resulting in a mob melee, as he seems to suggest. Rather it was fights between individuals and small groups - the exact same thing he admits happens at Bills games. The comparison is thus completely fair.

The only all-for-one mentality that I saw was support for the team. There were far more people having friendly chats with Crew fans that drunken idiots provoking fights.

And lastly, although I won't promote fighting, why does everyone seem to forget that it takes two to tango. The crew fans seem to be getting a pass from everyone for some unknown reason...

scooter
03-31-2009, 07:05 AM
mornin all

never mind the press bullshit they need to sell papers

4 MORE SLEEPS

Fort York Redcoat
03-31-2009, 07:07 AM
This is an outrage (monocle falling out)! I mean Gareth, if you're going to quote from the message board then use the poster's boardname!

SUNZ BLAMZ INTERWEBZ!

Oblio2
03-31-2009, 07:14 AM
Honestly.....Im sick of this shit.
being from England I have had to deal with "Hooligan" references since I moved to canada in 93......Poeple still make comments and now, because of a) pathetic, armchair journalism and b) a few knob gobbling drunk, 18 year old retards....I have to do it again.

These "Journalists" should actually report what really happened. Douchebags!

Toronto Gunner
03-31-2009, 07:21 AM
I don't like that they portray the fans as bloody-thirsty groups that wanted to kill one another. Here's two nice videos of TFC fans and Columbus fans 'enjoying' each others company:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/video/video.php?v=159444045496&oid=2220320022

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=159444045496&oid=2220320022#/video/video.php?v=159444815496&oid=2220320022

Not safe for work due to the appearance of some boobies...

alexintoronto
03-31-2009, 07:21 AM
The big joke is the condemnation is mainly from people posting based on what they heard who weren't even in Columbus. The "journalists" sensationalizing this to sell papers - were any of them in Columbus ?

boban
03-31-2009, 07:26 AM
Was Gareth Wheeler at the Game?
Use of Anonymous quotes?
Then I realized...it was posted in the Sun...and it didn't matter anymore.

And good work by Jack trying to get our side out there.
Although those "journalists" seemed to have had their minds made up before they even wrote that piece.
I'd like to invite them to come on a road trip with us.
I just saw Wheeler's Grill Room.
Wow it was pretty bad. Makes the person who hasn't been to a game not want to come as he suggests its mayham in the stands.

Mark in Ottawa
03-31-2009, 07:28 AM
Hmm... "some trouble after the game", "a few arrests", "not sure if they were Canadian or American"...

A YouTube Video as a "source" with no context to go with it...

Isn't tabloid journalism a total waste of space?

Waggy
03-31-2009, 07:29 AM
Guys, look. Obviously, this is what clownumbus wanted (some big press). It'll make the next game much more of an event locally for em, and maybe it'll help them sell some tickets and merch. As well as be a huge boost to their supporters section. All of us who were there know what happened, next time we just need to insist on several things from columbus on the condition of us not going otherwise.

1) A seperate tailgate section that doesn't involve us walking through their crowd to get to the bus, or piss.
2) Reassurances about the structural integrity of the south end (if even 1 bench had collapsed, thats 10 people potentially going to the hospital)
3) An escort out of the stadium, after they clear the columbus fans. We have no problem celebrating the win anyways, we'll just make it 20-25 min instead of 10-15.

Toronto fans shouldn't ever be used as marketting pawns again

bgnewf
03-31-2009, 07:30 AM
Wheeler is assuming a lot here:

1) The "perps" were RPB, or for that matter affiliated with a supporters group.

2) The "Perps" deserved the treatment they got from Columbus Police.

Two significant errors there that he bases his entire piece on. When will the general Toronto media get the fact supporters groups do indeed self police. When will the media get the fact that not every TFC fan is U Sector, RPB, Ultra or NEE?

And perhaps more importantly when will the Toronto media get that the kind of extra cirriculars that sometimes happen at TFC matches are often tame compared to Blue Jay's, Buffalo Bills or Maple Leafs games? This hooligan by association shit has to fucking stop. It is wrong at best and lazy journalism at worst.

Technorgasm
03-31-2009, 07:31 AM
I knew it. Like a pack Of raneous dogs the shit stain journos
Jump on the minor troubles like we put a thick steak in a pirranha tank

Townie fuck dbags




BMO ONLY MOMENTS AWAY.........

Go crazy!! And remember to......... EAT IT

Krasno.pL.
03-31-2009, 07:31 AM
Wheeler's a douche

GBV
03-31-2009, 07:32 AM
front-page pic on today's sun is from youtube of fan getting tasered.

Oldtimer
03-31-2009, 07:32 AM
So... I guess we can "unban" the Post, since they did not do any negative reporting this time around, but only reported on the team's results and the turnout. I think the angry response last time taught them a lesson.

Eastend
03-31-2009, 07:32 AM
Was Gareth Wheeler at the Game?
Use of Anonymous quotes?
Then I realized...it was posted in the Sun...and it didn't matter anymore.

And good work by Jack trying to get our side out there.
Although those "journalists" seemed to have had their minds made up before they even wrote that piece.
I'd like to invite them to come on a road trip with us.

Actually, it does matter. Perception is everything. If we are perceived as hooligans, then in the eyes of the not so educated, we are hooligans.

I know I am tired of this shit, as I'm sure all of you are. I hate it when I get that call from a friend who is not a football fan and they start on me saying I'm part of this and part of that, it just pisses me off.

I think a lot of this same behaviour happens in other N.A. sports but because this is football/soccer if gets reported differently and we get this label.

Thank you to the hand full of idiots from both sides for this undeserved and unrequired attention.

Thank you Toronto Sun and all media for getting the story and all the facts straight. Well done.

p.s. On a final note, I like how the Sun allows for comment on each article like all the other papers in town do.

GBV
03-31-2009, 07:35 AM
So... I guess we can "unban" the Post, since they did not do any negative reporting this time around, but only reported on the team's results and the turnout. I think the angry response last time taught them a lesson.

to suggest it shouldn't be reported is a more than a little ignorant.

TFC Tifoso
03-31-2009, 07:39 AM
Guys, look. Obviously, this is what clownumbus wanted (some big press). It'll make the next game much more of an event locally for em, and maybe it'll help them sell some tickets and merch. As well as be a huge boost to their supporters section. All of us who were there know what happened, next time we just need to insist on several things from columbus on the condition of us not going otherwise.

1) A seperate tailgate section that doesn't involve us walking through their crowd to get to the bus, or piss.
2) Reassurances about the structural integrity of the south end (if even 1 bench had collapsed, thats 10 people potentially going to the hospital)
3) An escort out of the stadium, after they clear the columbus fans. We have no problem celebrating the win anyways, we'll just make it 20-25 min instead of 10-15.

Toronto fans shouldn't ever be used as marketting pawns again

Or just boycott that garbage dump turned into a city....let them rot with their shitty attendance....we don't need to add to it.

Wagner
03-31-2009, 07:40 AM
After the previous poster mentioned that Gareth does the "Grill Room"...(anyone in Media, please post the ratings...should be hilarious)...
That Douche goes to a LOT of TFC games.
He often hangs in the Special Needs seating in the south End.
Wow...I hope he likes his lifetime sentence of "who-are-yas" at BMO.

So he goes to the games, enjoys them...but then stabs us in the back, runs our name through the mud...what a judas.

in case you don't know...it's this guy:
http://suntv.canoe.ca/thumbs/thegrillroom_thumb_gareth.jpg

Nice Journalism...using Youtube, Hear say, and internet message boards. Your journalism prof would be proud.

Mark in Ottawa
03-31-2009, 07:42 AM
to suggest it shouldn't be reported is a more than a little ignorant.
Agreed that it needs to be reported about but a few facts would be nice!

Oblio2
03-31-2009, 07:42 AM
After the previous poster mentioned that Gareth does the "Grill Room"...(anyone in Media, please post the ratings...should be hilarious)...
That Douche goes to a LOT of TFC games.
He often hangs in the Special Needs seating in the south End.
Wow...I hope he likes his lifetime sentence of "who-are-yas" at BMO.

So he goes to the games, enjoys them...but then stabs us in the back, runs our name through the mud...what a judas.

in case you don't know...it's this guy:
http://suntv.canoe.ca/thumbs/thegrillroom_thumb_gareth.jpg

Nice Journalism...using Youtube, Hear say, and internet message boards. Your journalism prof would be proud.

A solid "Wheeler is Wanker" chant wouldn't go a miss

Shaughno
03-31-2009, 07:48 AM
I don't like that they portray the fans as bloody-thirsty groups that wanted to kill one another. Here's two nice videos of TFC fans and Columbus fans 'enjoying' each others company:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/video/video.php?v=159444045496&oid=2220320022

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=159444045496&oid=2220320022#/video/video.php?v=159444815496&oid=2220320022

Not safe for work due to the appearance of some boobies...


:rofl: Yes Deniz and Harris. Now that's typical Toronto behaviour. :D

CoachGT
03-31-2009, 07:51 AM
to suggest it shouldn't be reported is a more than a little ignorant.

I think the point is that if you are going to report, then make sure your facts are straight, not one sided. Stuff about the anthems???? I was proud to sing ours as loud as we did, and we certainly were respectful of the US anthem. During the game, both supporters groups brought it, and there was very little "negative" chanting - once or twice we all laughed at the yellow football team and could you hear Columbus sing, but nothing more than that - stuff you'd hear in our own pitch.

Not everyone is in one of the supporters groups, and it is much easier to get tickets in Columbus than it is at our own pitch, so there are a lot of fans that go there that aren't affiliated with any group.

But the problem is that if you report the truth, it isn't anywhere as interesting as reporting sensationalism!

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 07:55 AM
Disappointed in Wheeler to say the least. He has written some relatively insightful articles on TFC in the past.

That said, this is the first time he's made it that far up the sports pages in his life. He sold his soul for greed - I hope it bites him in the arse

GabrielHurl
03-31-2009, 07:56 AM
The most ridiculous part of the "article"


Supporters' clubs also should consider making trips accessible to only season-ticket holders and club members.

Yeah right :rolleyes:

KRO
03-31-2009, 07:57 AM
We can scream "foul" all we like about this slanted journalism but if some of our 'fans' hadn't ripped off railings and tossed them, broken seats and towel holders and thrown smoke bombs at our own goalkeeper then they would have nothing to write about. I was at the game and was amazed at the number of fans around me who did not see our goal and didn't realise we had scored for about 30 seconds. These are not real supporters. We have to find a way to weed out these numbskulls for away trips.

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 07:58 AM
The most ridiculous part of the "article"



Yeah right :rolleyes:


that's awesome, now people that can't catch games at BMO, can't catch them on the road either

MisterMacphisto
03-31-2009, 08:12 AM
Wheelers article should be titled, "Wheeler not a real journalist, just a tabloid blogger." Basing your article on "facts" from a Youtube video and a random poster on a public message board?

*SIGH* I don't even want to waste my time posting about this, its hopeless.

There are real stories to be talked about... One being how utterly incompetent and over-reacting Columbus security are.

At every away game I have been to, at some point supporters groups get close to each other and we chant at each other. Its fun, and security is usually there letting us do our thing and after 10 minutes or so, we move on. I was doing the same after the Columbus game, just chanting and waving my scarf. Columbus police guy walks right up to me completely expressionless, no warning or anything and pepper sprays me, then starts screaming at me. WTF?

After game I am in parking lot playing soccer waiting for shuttle to come. In between, I'm actually picking up some garbage and throwing it in trash. Bunch of cops come and start yelling at us to get out. I calmly explain that we are waiting for our shuttle to pick us up and that we are just playing soccer. Cop keeps screaming at me to get out. I again explain that in order to leave, I need the shuttle I am waiting for to pick me up.

Anyways... last time I ever go to Columbus with their Gestapo.

And wheeler, you better where earplugs the next time you come to BMO.

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 08:12 AM
Pedula = Goal of the Week

tlear
03-31-2009, 08:13 AM
Another moron "journalist" to add to my "do not add to the traffic" list

Oblio2
03-31-2009, 08:15 AM
Sunshine Girl...MOOSE KNUCKLE!!!!
:)

Parkdale
03-31-2009, 08:20 AM
wait...... what people post on our message board is newsworthy?


I guess it's a double edged sword being the most recognized supporters group.

koryo
03-31-2009, 08:22 AM
I went to journalism school (some 15 years ago mind you) and in those days fabrication was frowned upon - generally regarded as unethical.

It's the sort of yellow rubbish Wheeler put out this morning that made the decision to walk away from that line of work a very easy one.

ps: Wheeler's column amounts to slander, in that he's directly linking this group with the everything that transpired in Columbus. Lodging a formal complaint with the OPC isn't a bad idea.

mr k
03-31-2009, 08:28 AM
Agree Wheeler & Hornsby's pieces are simply shoddy piece of journalism - basically on par with bloggers with their references to youtube videos, forum postings and unnamed sources. Except that some of the bloggers were at the match while these 2 boobs weren't.

But this is the Sun - basically Canada's version of the National Enquirer with Sun tv being a complete waste of bandwidth.

Daveisonfire
03-31-2009, 08:29 AM
I've never prefered the Sun...now thanks to Gareth...I never will

Yohan
03-31-2009, 08:30 AM
It seems to be 'hooliganism' is the next target of toronto press mob mentality.

Remember the raves in the late 90s and early 2000 and how it got shut down due to negative press that fed on generalization, perception and prejudice?

Next thing you know, no more than 3 people gathering together without police permission.

T-Bird
03-31-2009, 08:31 AM
mornin all

never mind the press bullshit they need to sell papers

4 MORE SLEEPS

My thoughts exactly. It's sensationalist bullshit and we all know the media likes to focus on the negative.

Who cares what they say. We all need to stop being so sensitive. You guys were there, you saw what happened and you had a great time! Don't let a few douche bags trying make a buck ruin your memories and put a negative spin on your fun times! :)

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 08:37 AM
Yeah I'm cancelling my subsciption - the SSGs are the shits and now this. Waste of trees that paper

Parkdale
03-31-2009, 08:37 AM
it's a real shame because Gareth has been on a very pro-soccer stance lately.
He's even gone as far as to say that Hockey is no longer 'the average canadian's sport'.
Those are SERIOUS things to say if you work in the old boys club of sports reporting.

It's really a shame that instead of reporting on what he knows, he's going by hearsay.

Parkdale
03-31-2009, 08:39 AM
Remember the raves in the late 90s and early 2000 and how it got shut down due to negative press that fed on generalization, perception and prejudice?


and you remember how they were shut down? Paid duty officers!
The city said that raves could happen if you had 1 cop for
every 50 people at the party. For a big one like Better Days or Dose,
you'd end up needing anywhere from 50 - 100 officers.

Care to guess what it would cost to staff 100 paid duty cops (on overtime)?

Pigfynn
03-31-2009, 08:40 AM
Why did it take until Tuesday to write all this bullshit? Is it a case of we'll report on the game Monday and then drum up a bunch of sensationalist bullshit for a slow news day on Tuesday?

The front page of the SUN? really? wow!

Sad.

Yohan
03-31-2009, 08:43 AM
My thoughts exactly. It's sensationalist bullshit and we all know the media likes to focus on the negative.

Who cares what they say. We all need to stop being so sensitive. You guys were there, you saw what happened and you had a great time! Don't let a few douche bags trying make a buck ruin your memories and put a negative spin on your fun times! :)
unfortunately the avg hockey fans and other avg joes that dont know anything about footy and get their info from the media WILL get the perception that footy is only for hooligans and that RPBs and other supporter groups are troublemakers.

"It is easier to cope with a bad conscience than with a bad reputation"
- Nietzsche

Krasno.pL.
03-31-2009, 08:44 AM
"Care to guess what it would cost to staff 100 paid duty cops (on overtime)?"


^^ too much :D

keem-o-sabi
03-31-2009, 08:45 AM
well this will make you happy, today's coed girl (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/daily-snapshot-girls-2/)says she loves us RPB's... okay i was kidding, but she's yummy

T-Bird
03-31-2009, 08:46 AM
They just showed it on CP24...kind of stupid

Lucky Strike
03-31-2009, 08:48 AM
I'm very surprised and disappointed at Wheeler for this yellow journalism. Anonymous quotes from a forum, where the user names are themselves anonymous (as in, they are substitutes for our real names)? Come on, seriously? The article is full of opinion with no real substance and itís not even an editorial. And about the RPB not revealing who they banned or expelled, why does he feel he has a right to know? The threat of expulsion is not ďblindĒ as he suggests, itís very real for RPBs. Just because he feels he should be entitled to know and doesnít, doesnít make it blind. If he thinks so, heís lost all perspective, something essential for a journalist. Itís Wheeler who is simply embarrassing.

tfcleeds
03-31-2009, 08:48 AM
So, who's up for making a banner with a big FU for the Toronto Sun for Saturday?

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 08:50 AM
Gareth Wheeler should no longer be welcome to Shoeless Joe's while we are there before or after TFC games. That was a disgrace what he wrote. Not a single RPB was involved in the fracas and yet we are highlighted in his worthless article.

Piss off Gareth. Your crappy little show will get no coverage on this forum. Consider yourself banished to the level of "National Post". Dick.

nascarguy
03-31-2009, 08:50 AM
well this will make you happy, today's coed girl (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/daily-snapshot-girls-2/)says she loves us RPB's... okay i was kidding, but she's yummy
now that better:yum:

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 08:52 AM
I went to journalism school (some 15 years ago mind you) and in those days fabrication was frowned upon - generally regarded as unethical.

It's the sort of yellow rubbish Wheeler put out this morning that made the decision to walk away from that line of work a very easy one.

ps: Wheeler's column amounts to slander, in that he's directly linking this group with the everything that transpired in Columbus. Lodging a formal complaint with the OPC isn't a bad idea.


I hope the executive choose to consider this option. Or at the very least, complain to his bosses at the Sun. 2000 fans went down to Columbus...a handful got into problems. RPB has what, 500 paid members? And how may of those made the trip? So what proof is there that RPB had anything to do with with the jackasses that did start problems and what gives him the right to shine the light on us without any proof? Wheeler is personna non gratta for me. He'd better not show his face at Shoeless.

Yohan
03-31-2009, 08:53 AM
and you remember how they were shut down? Paid duty officers!
The city said that raves could happen if you had 1 cop for
every 50 people at the party. For a big one like Better Days or Dose,
you'd end up needing anywhere from 50 - 100 officers.

Care to guess what it would cost to staff 100 paid duty cops (on overtime)?
What annoyed me most was the tactics used by media and politicians to turn the public against raves and big parties in general

koryo
03-31-2009, 08:54 AM
I hope the executive choose to consider this option. Or at the very least, complain to his bosses at the Sun. 2000 fans went down to Columbus...a handful got into problems. RPB has what, 500 paid members? So what proof is there that RPB had anything to do with with the jackasses that did start problems and what gives him the right to shine the light on us without any proof? Wheeler is personna non gratta for me. He'd better not show his face at Shoeless.

That's just it. He has neither Accuracy nor Fair Comment on his side. That equals slander.

jrey
03-31-2009, 08:55 AM
The most ridiculous part of the "article"



Yeah right :rolleyes:

Yeah -- don't see that one working. People will just go their own way.

Parkdale
03-31-2009, 08:56 AM
What annoyed me most was the tactics used by media and politicians to turn the public against raves and big parties in general


it wasn't hard to turn public opinion against it. most people don't understand dancing, and they certainly don't want kids out all night.

also, one look at a hullabaloo crowd would want me to go for the 'nuclear option'

T-Bird
03-31-2009, 09:04 AM
If you all have such a huge problem with the reporting tell them the real story...who knows, maybe they will show up on Saturday to meet the "scary, violent hooligans" we all are.

now@cp24.com

I submitted my comments.

Yohan
03-31-2009, 09:07 AM
it wasn't hard to turn public opinion against it. most people don't understand dancing, and they certainly don't want kids out all night.

also, one look at a hullabaloo crowd would want me to go for the 'nuclear option'
god i hate sheep mentality among the masses

Don Julio
03-31-2009, 09:09 AM
Seems to me he was very careful to point out that it was isolated, and even that it wasn't likely members of a supporters group. I don't see a reason for the uproar - because he questioned the ability of the groups to self police? Well, so have a lot of members on here.

If you don't want people sensationalizing the issues at these events, stop sensationalizing it yourselves. Posting fucking Youtube videos and everybody and their mother listing every altercation they saw in Columbus all over the boards, then * wink wink * not mentioning the names of people that are involved. You wonder why they don't think the self policing is working.

These things are the cause of this, not Wheeler.

Don Julio
03-31-2009, 09:09 AM
If you all have such a huge problem with the reporting tell them the real story...who knows, maybe they will show up on Saturday to meet the "scary, violent hooligans" we all are.

now@cp24.com

I submitted my comments.

Wtf? You're all concerned with accurate reporting then you make up some quote in your post?

Redcoe15
03-31-2009, 09:25 AM
How many think Bobo McClown will jump all over this cover story and milk this as another example of why soccer and its fans sucks? :prrr:

T-Bird
03-31-2009, 09:32 AM
Wtf? You're all concerned with accurate reporting then you make up some quote in your post?

i'm not making up a quote...it's sarcasm

Lucky Strike
03-31-2009, 10:02 AM
Sadly, the Wheeler text was posted at The Footy Blog, to which I wrote the following:

I knew about Gareth Wheeler's article before it was posted and I am very disappointed with him. He has typically been very pro-football and has helped grow the sport in Canada and for that, he deserves credit.

Unfortunately, this “text” is of very poor quality and is a quintessential example of yellow journalism (if you can still use that term for an online publication). It is littered with opinion and facts are unfortunately missing. And those things which are presented as facts are misconstrued. Take Wheeler’s questioning of the Red Patch Boys accountability: he says there is none (or that it is blind, to use his words), because he was denied access to a list of people that have been expelled/barred. Just because he can’t see it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Supporter groups are like a close-knit family and if suddenly you’re cast out because of something you did or said, the whole family knows about it and no doubt you would feel shamed. Imagine what you would feel like if the club you loved shunned you and you were no longer able to support it.

Furthermore, he goes on to anonymously quote forum posters, on which these users have screen names that stand in for real names! Essentially, Wheeler is using a doubly anonymous “source” for his article.

I personally (and I make the claim for no one else) am led to believe there was damage to Crew stadium based on three pictures of a handrail being picked up and thrown (although I’m curious how people – even 100 of them - managed to shear off a metal construction). That seems to be true and no one I’ve spoken to has denied that so far (based on the available pictures). Nor do I feel it necessary to automatically blame the police by saying “they should have kept both sets of fans apart” even though such a measure would no doubt have greatly helped. Nor am I blaming Columbus, even though based on their behaviour last year, I could probably get away with it.

I hope I’m getting the message across that I’m not looking to wrongfully deflect any of the blame away from TFC supporters to hide what happened. But I will not stand by and stay silent over false accusations and sloppy journalism. I’ve already covered his doubly anonymous forum source, I now move on to the YouTube video. I’ve watched it and it seems pretty straightforward: a TFC fan is tackled by at least 5-6 officers and tasered for what seems like an eternity. So Gareth Wheeler, is it truly serious? Maybe it is, I don’t know, I wasn’t a witness. But if you weren’t standing next to the melee either, how can you proclaim it was serious? Did you speak to the officer(s) involved in the arrest of this person? Did you obtain context on what happened? No? Then how can you say it was serious? Again without attempting to blame others, is it not possible the police were wrong or overly aggressive? It happens all around the world; police officers are people just like us. Some of them can be bribed as you see in some poorer countries, others can get excessive like the officers in Los Angeles from years back. They can also genuinely make a wrong decision, as some people would argue our venerable RCMP has. Mistakes can happen anywhere and until you speak directly with the officers involved, how can you say it was serious, appropriate, or even that they got the right guy? I’m not claiming any sort of police conspiracy by saying this, but are such mistakes in the realm of possibility? Absolutely. I like to think they are rare, but they are definitely possible. And using a YouTube video as source material doesn’t reflect highly on you. What if someone writes a paper using Wikipedia as a source? Would you take them seriously?
I like to think I have good literary skills, but they’re inadequate to make the following seem like I’m not trying to shift the blame onto others: Did altercations break out? Certainly, but it requires someone with whom to have an altercation – an opponent if you will. Of course, it’s inexcusable and the Red Patch Boys make it a policy to not advocate violence, as per its recent statements. Wheeler points out that the vast majority of fans on both sides were well-behaved, which is good because it’s true. But then he proceeds to tear those same people apart and tarnish their reputation without being properly sourced. It’s as bad as if I were to claim that blacks are X, Y and Z and therefore they are unruly people. But that’s okay, I’m allowed to say that off the top of my head because I have many black friends. Just like my fictitious example, it’s a lousy excuse/disclaimer and I see right through it.

And finally, something more minor but it speaks to the character and tone of this text, it has not even been proofread properly. Near the beginning of the article, one reads a sentence that begins with: “Youtube [sic] video's [sic] of a TFC supporter…”. Now it may seem trivial to harp on grammar/spelling, but if Gareth Wheeler can’t bother to properly review and proofread his text, how can we think that he’ll do the same with his sources?

Signed (with a real name): Guillaume Tremblay (aka. Lucky Strike).

boomcha
03-31-2009, 10:11 AM
Just saw this at the Toronto Star site.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/611015

Parkdale
03-31-2009, 10:13 AM
wow... good work Guillaume Tremblay.



ps. Aux Armes!

Fort York Redcoat
03-31-2009, 10:15 AM
Seems to me he was very careful to point out that it was isolated, and even that it wasn't likely members of a supporters group. I don't see a reason for the uproar - because he questioned the ability of the groups to self police? Well, so have a lot of members on here.

If you don't want people sensationalizing the issues at these events, stop sensationalizing it yourselves. Posting fucking Youtube videos and everybody and their mother listing every altercation they saw in Columbus all over the boards, then * wink wink * not mentioning the names of people that are involved. You wonder why they don't think the self policing is working.

These things are the cause of this, not Wheeler.

You are not a lot of people. You also do not seem to be a member.

loconet
03-31-2009, 10:16 AM
disgusting stuff

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 10:16 AM
Sadly, the Wheeler text was posted at The Footy Blog, to which I wrote the following:

I knew about Gareth Wheeler's article before it was posted and I am very disappointed with him. He has typically been very pro-football and has helped grow the sport in Canada and for that, he deserves credit.

Unfortunately, this ďtextĒ is of very poor quality and is a quintessential example of yellow journalism (if you can still use that term for an online publication). It is littered with opinion and facts are unfortunately missing. And those things which are presented as facts are misconstrued. Take Wheelerís questioning of the Red Patch Boys accountability: he says there is none (or that it is blind, to use his words), because he was denied access to a list of people that have been expelled/barred. Just because he canít see it, doesnít mean it doesnít exist. Supporter groups are like a close-knit family and if suddenly youíre cast out because of something you did or said, the whole family knows about it and no doubt you would feel shamed. Imagine what you would feel like if the club you loved shunned you and you were no longer able to support it.

Furthermore, he goes on to anonymously quote forum posters, on which these users have screen names that stand in for real names! Essentially, Wheeler is using a doubly anonymous ďsourceĒ for his article.

I personally (and I make the claim for no one else) am led to believe there was damage to Crew stadium based on three pictures of a handrail being picked up and thrown (although Iím curious how people Ė even 100 of them - managed to shear off a metal construction). That seems to be true and no one Iíve spoken to has denied that so far (based on the available pictures). Nor do I feel it necessary to automatically blame the police by saying ďthey should have kept both sets of fans apartĒ even though such a measure would no doubt have greatly helped. Nor am I blaming Columbus, even though based on their behaviour last year, I could probably get away with it.

I hope Iím getting the message across that Iím not looking to wrongfully deflect any of the blame away from TFC supporters to hide what happened. But I will not stand by and stay silent over false accusations and sloppy journalism. Iíve already covered his doubly anonymous forum source, I now move on to the YouTube video. Iíve watched it and it seems pretty straightforward: a TFC fan is tackled by at least 5-6 officers and tasered for what seems like an eternity. So Gareth Wheeler, is it truly serious? Maybe it is, I donít know, I wasnít a witness. But if you werenít standing next to the melee either, how can you proclaim it was serious? Did you speak to the officer(s) involved in the arrest of this person? Did you obtain context on what happened? No? Then how can you say it was serious? Again without attempting to blame others, is it not possible the police were wrong or overly aggressive? It happens all around the world; police officers are people just like us. Some of them can be bribed as you see in some poorer countries, others can get excessive like the officers in Los Angeles from years back. They can also genuinely make a wrong decision, as some people would argue our venerable RCMP has. Mistakes can happen anywhere and until you speak directly with the officers involved, how can you say it was serious, appropriate, or even that they got the right guy? Iím not claiming any sort of police conspiracy by saying this, but are such mistakes in the realm of possibility? Absolutely. I like to think they are rare, but they are definitely possible. And using a YouTube video as source material doesnít reflect highly on you. What if someone writes a paper using Wikipedia as a source? Would you take them seriously?
I like to think I have good literary skills, but theyíre inadequate to make the following seem like Iím not trying to shift the blame onto others: Did altercations break out? Certainly, but it requires someone with whom to have an altercation Ė an opponent if you will. Of course, itís inexcusable and the Red Patch Boys make it a policy to not advocate violence, as per its recent statements. Wheeler points out that the vast majority of fans on both sides were well-behaved, which is good because itís true. But then he proceeds to tear those same people apart and tarnish their reputation without being properly sourced. Itís as bad as if I were to claim that blacks are X, Y and Z and therefore they are unruly people. But thatís okay, Iím allowed to say that off the top of my head because I have many black friends. Just like my fictitious example, itís a lousy excuse/disclaimer and I see right through it.

And finally, something more minor but it speaks to the character and tone of this text, it has not even been proofread properly. Near the beginning of the article, one reads a sentence that begins with: ďYoutube [sic] video's [sic] of a TFC supporterÖĒ. Now it may seem trivial to harp on grammar/spelling, but if Gareth Wheeler canít bother to properly review and proofread his text, how can we think that heíll do the same with his sources?

Signed (with a real name): Guillaume Tremblay (aka. Lucky Strike).

Bravo LS. Bang on.

Suds
03-31-2009, 10:16 AM
Seems to me he was very careful to point out that it was isolated, and even that it wasn't likely members of a supporters group. I don't see a reason for the uproar - because he questioned the ability of the groups to self police? Well, so have a lot of members on here.

If you don't want people sensationalizing the issues at these events, stop sensationalizing it yourselves. Posting fucking Youtube videos and everybody and their mother listing every altercation they saw in Columbus all over the boards, then * wink wink * not mentioning the names of people that are involved. You wonder why they don't think the self policing is working.

These things are the cause of this, not Wheeler.

Well I'll have to respectfully disagree.

"But the answer surely isn't publicly saying the problems have been embellished.


The Red Patch Boys told Sun Media: "As per usual, the power of the Internet has caused what were really pretty minor incidents to be over-inflated in their importance."


People got Tasered! That's serious.


Where's the accountability?


The Red Patch Boys have a charter threatening expulsion for those engaging in violent and/or destructive activity. But when asked how many supporters have been banished, Sun Media was told this information is for only the group and its members.


Is the purpose of the charter to merely issue blind threats?"

I read this as an attack on the RBP, the way it manages the group, and the accountability of its membership. He provides no proof in this article that any member of this organization was involved in the incedents in Columbus yet he is quick to contiually use this organizations name throught this article.

What I see is a couple of cover-your-ass statements at the beginning of the article in a vain attempt to not point a finger at the supporters groups then go on to call them out.

Wagner
03-31-2009, 10:16 AM
wow... good work Guillaume Tremblay.



ps. Aux Armes!
yeah,
great work.
send it to the sun,.
hopefully they'll print it tomorrow.

Razcle
03-31-2009, 10:21 AM
I wounder if someone should post the whole article so that we deflect the number of hits the website gets. If this is slanted reporting we should somehow curb the amount of attention his webpage gets. Maybe that will change his tune.

trane
03-31-2009, 10:26 AM
I am offended.

Don Julio
03-31-2009, 10:27 AM
You are not a lot of people. You also do not seem to be a member.

Nope, not a member, and never pretended to be, nor am I anybody other than myself. uh?

Fort York Redcoat
03-31-2009, 10:29 AM
He had to use Youtube and Message Boards as sources. Who's in over his head?

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 10:29 AM
I am offended.

On the radio???

What a complete douchebag.

Lucky Strike
03-31-2009, 10:29 AM
yeah,
great work.
send it to the sun,.
hopefully they'll print it tomorrow.

Yeah, I might do that, though I'll wait until I get home simply because I don't want to use my federal government address at work (don't get access to Hotmail). What is the appropriate place to send them?

Red CB Toronto
03-31-2009, 10:47 AM
Does anyone know for a fact if he was or was not at the game? I for the most part have really enjoyed Gareth's colums. I think writers sometimes can take the smallest thread of a comment/quote/idea and run with in it, making it something way bigger than it really is. I would suggest most established journalist have been at fault of this at one time or another during their careers.

I do not know if he talked to someome or as some have suggested took a comment off a message board and passed it off as a direct quote, but none the less TFC coverage in this city has been pretty decent for where TFC stands in the sports and entertainment market in Toronto.

Gareth from everything I can gather has been quite fair when it comes to TFC and just because of one colum I my mind does not deserve to be thrown to the wolves.
The role of a columist is to provoke conversation and thought, the good ones get readers because even if they do not agree with what is being written all the time it can be an interesting read, one that will make you think.

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 10:50 AM
Provoke conversation should not include throwing people (and groups) under the bus unfairly, nor does it excuse the due diligence he should have exercised in doing his job. How can we ever trust him again? I can't. He is dead to me.

denime
03-31-2009, 10:53 AM
Well CBLake you will never again have the opportunity to enjoy Gareth's column on RPB board.:nono:
Links to his articles or columns will not be posted here anymore.We promoted his show and his writing ,not anymore.

:dita: Gareth :hump:

GabrielHurl
03-31-2009, 10:59 AM
Does anyone know for a fact if he was or was not at the game?

He said on the radio he wasn't - he was basing it on last years expereiences and rumours

jloome
03-31-2009, 11:02 AM
yeah,
great work.
send it to the sun,.
hopefully they'll print it tomorrow.

Nope. It's way over their 100-150 word max letter length.

Red CB Toronto
03-31-2009, 11:02 AM
Does anyone have idea if he was at the game and/or did he actually talk to someone for direct quotes, that will go a long way in determing his level of due diligence.

GabrielHurl
03-31-2009, 11:04 AM
Does anyone have idea if he was at the game and/or did he actually talk to someone for direct quotes, that will go a long way in determing his level of due diligence.

He said on the radio he wasn't - he was basing it on last years experiences and rumours

Red CB Toronto
03-31-2009, 11:06 AM
He said on the radio he wasn't - he was basing it on last years experiences and rumours

Sorry I forgot to refresh my browser and did not see your first post, thanks for the insight.

That

Red CB Toronto
03-31-2009, 11:07 AM
He said on the radio he wasn't - he was basing it on last years experiences and rumours

Sorry I forgot to refresh my browser and did not see your first post, thanks for the insight.

That changes my view on the quality of the article greatly.

MartinUtd
03-31-2009, 11:07 AM
Wow. Disappointing article from Gareth, calling out our charter like that with very little knowledge of what we do.

He asked me about our discipline and he asked me if we had ever kicked any members out for a breach of discipline. Frankly, that's none of anyone's business but our own.

Lot's of conjecture, but little knowledge of how the group works.

Gareth, it's disappointing that you choose to drag our name through the mud like that and associate our actions with the actions of a few idiots.

It almost seemed like he was under the impression that ticket distribution for away trips was the sole responsibility of RPB and that you as President has the final word on who gets to go and who doesn't

LdsUntdFC
03-31-2009, 11:17 AM
The most ridiculous part of the "article"



Yeah right :rolleyes:
Actually, GabrielHurl, many clubs back in the UK have gone a similar route. You have to apply as a travelling supporter and they check to see that your record is clean, that you aren't a know trouble-maker and they issue you travelling credentials. Doesn't sound too rediculous to me.

Wagner
03-31-2009, 11:19 AM
He had to use Youtube and Message Boards as sources. Who's in over his head?
Quote of the Day ^^^^^

InDa_110
03-31-2009, 11:23 AM
The people who are the only winners of all this b.s. are the Scalpers and the C.B.C. come Saturday.

Thanks Geoff! Thanks RPB away team! For a great weekend!

I can only wonder how many people will now express interest in future trips?

Carts
03-31-2009, 11:24 AM
Well CITY just showed the youtube video...

Francis said quote "...I will be speaking to the person who shot that video later today, and he says its not what it seems..."

Lets hope the person who shot it does well in the interview... Calm, professional, polite...

Carts...

Wagner
03-31-2009, 11:26 AM
We don't want the facts to get in the way of a good story...
;)

GabrielHurl
03-31-2009, 11:26 AM
Actually, GabrielHurl, many clubs back in the UK have gone a similar route. You have to apply as a travelling supporter and they check to see that your record is clean, that you aren't a know trouble-maker and they issue you travelling credentials. Doesn't sound too rediculous to me.

Good for them

Marc"2L"
03-31-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm having this nightmare again where I'm constantly surrounded by people who lack proper thinking skills. Then I realize I'm awake and it starts all over again...

None of you guys of course, but it's hard hearing so many people say things that seem so short sighted and just plain wrong....

Naturegirl
03-31-2009, 11:34 AM
If you all have such a huge problem with the reporting tell them the real story...who knows, maybe they will show up on Saturday to meet the "scary, violent hooligans" we all are.

now@cp24.com

I submitted my comments.


sending my comments aswell. thanks t-bird for the link.

also, i do believe a wheeler banner is order :D along with a chant or two. If i run into him in the south i will glad walk up to him and make sure he gets my real name in full and my rank and then i will be a bad bad holligan and throw my beer in his face :D asswipe. anyonego an email address to his bosses that we can write a respectful letter too?

Roogsy
03-31-2009, 11:38 AM
Actually, GabrielHurl, many clubs back in the UK have gone a similar route. You have to apply as a travelling supporter and they check to see that your record is clean, that you aren't a know trouble-maker and they issue you travelling credentials. Doesn't sound too rediculous to me.

Vetting people who travel with us is not a problem I don't think. If it comes to that, I am sure the away team will look at it. But first, shouldn't we establish that the trouble-makers were within the RPB travelling group in the first place? All the trips I have been on, not once have I seen any problems among our travelling group.

Marc"2L"
03-31-2009, 11:39 AM
sending my comments aswell. thanks t-bird for the link.

also, i do believe a wheeler banner is order :D along with a chant or two. If i run into him in the south i will glad walk up to him and make sure he gets my real name in full and my rank and then i will be a bad bad holligan and throw my beer in his face :D asswipe. anyonego an email address to his bosses that we can write a respectful letter too?


there's only onnnneeeeee Connie ZimMA!:hurray:

LdsUntdFC
03-31-2009, 11:49 AM
Vetting people who travel with us is not a problem I don't think. If it comes to that, I am sure the away team will look at it. But first, shouldn't we establish that the trouble-makers were within the RPB travelling group in the first place? All the trips I have been on, not once have I seen any problems among our travelling group.

I was thinking more as a TFC policy rather than narrowed to individual supporters clubs. I would think those of us that abhor the actions of the few would welcome a policy that eliminates, or at least makes it more difficult for idiots to represent us and our team.

trane
03-31-2009, 11:57 AM
He had to use Youtube and Message Boards as sources. Who's in over his head?

I was going to say bang on, but you know me always trying to pass of as a brit, and I think that may be a brit prashe. So instead I will say you are quite correct sir. [ I hope that did not sound too British]

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 12:04 PM
I was going to say bang on, but you know me always trying to pass of as a brit, and I think that may be a brit prashe. So instead I will say you are quite correct sir. [ I hope that did not sound too British]

hehe

Shway
03-31-2009, 12:11 PM
my question is, why can't the Toronto newspapers stand up for the people of Toronto, just like Cumbus' papers do...
why cant the headlines be like Toronto FC Supporters Ambushed in Columbus, or Toronto FC Fans Scrutinized For a Late Goal.....

why does it have to be the FREAKING NEGATIVES FROM OUR OWN PEOPLE!!!!!!

LET COLUMBUS WRITE THAT, but no Canadians always bashing ourselves!!!

Shway
03-31-2009, 12:12 PM
This Is Fustrating To Read! From The Local Papers!

DRock
03-31-2009, 12:16 PM
I know the railing things can't be justified, but maybe one of the fights can:

If i'm not mistaken it's a crew fan who hits the TFC guy walking through the crowd, right at the 2:25, 2:26 mark, and then since they pounced on the TFC guy, other fans jumped in. I mean, it's pretty dumb to walk through their supporters, but they shouldn't have hit him. I may be wrong, but it sure looks that way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQjt56Ojlj8&NR=1

mighty_torontofc_2008
03-31-2009, 12:24 PM
Wow. Disappointing article from Gareth, calling out our charter like that with very little knowledge of what we do.

He asked me about our discipline and he asked me if we had ever kicked any members out for a breach of discipline. Frankly, that's none of anyone's business but our own.

Lot's of conjecture, but little knowledge of how the group works.

Gareth, it's disappointing that you choose to drag our name through the mud like that and associate our actions with the actions of a few idiots.


Gareth is so anti soccer...its unreal...and to blame all the good supporters down there and not call out the handfull of scumbags that are trying to runi the TFC image is unfair...good job jack for defending the good TFC supporters.

GabrielHurl
03-31-2009, 12:28 PM
Gareth is so anti soccer

no he's not - have you ever read any of his stuff before today? :rolleyes:

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 12:31 PM
^ I know that's the worst part. I think he just saw an opportunity to make an article that actually got attention and got him a decent spot in today's paper. I'm sure he loves soccer, just apparentyl not as much as his own career/agenda. Really, selfish of him and he'll see that once it's over -he'll be left back on the back pages, and the people that did read and support him are...now....gone

trane
03-31-2009, 02:18 PM
^ Yeah, I think you go that right, he saw an opportunity and he took it.

Northern Soul
03-31-2009, 10:23 PM
Wheeler's voice drives me up the wall. He sounds like he always has a cold. AND, he's an idiot.