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Calvin
03-29-2009, 01:21 AM
I think TFC will have their hands full at home next week.

In their first 2 games this team has beaten the top team in the west and the MLS cup finalist convincingly.

I don't know how many of you have watched this team play but they are the top team in the league right now. 6 points. This is no fluke this is an incredibly talented club.

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20090329&content_id=232211&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

Sab0tage
03-29-2009, 01:22 AM
Well, Red Bulls were awful and RSL didn't generate much in the first half. But yeah, they are a good side.

If Montero continues to play this way, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Europe in the summer before next season begins.

UltraSuperMegaMo
03-29-2009, 01:33 AM
I’m really looking forward to seeing them. They’re quickly becoming my second favourite MLS team. They’ve got a number of players I’m looking forward to seeing.

I think they’re going to hit the wall a little playing their first game on the road, however. Conversely, I expect TFC to raise their game at home. Couldn’t really ask for a better team to open the season against.

Cashcleaner
03-29-2009, 01:44 AM
^ Seattle is certainly looking like interesting opposition for us next week and I think they could cause some problems. Coming off a win in KC and draw against Columbus is gonna be good for us, though.

Dunkers
03-29-2009, 02:20 AM
Montero is a menance on the field, but when RSL got physical with him, he seemed to disapear for a bit, but then out of no where stuck from 30 some odd yards...

Ljundberg did not look special at all, him and Montero were bumping into each other alot

Le Toux is very speedy, gotta watch out for that

Jaqua seems like an opertunistic big man, he is no DD though

Keller, the old man is 39 and wearing what appeared to be track pants...but he got the job done (threw the ball 3/4 the length of the feild)

Alonso (one of the cubans who defected durring olympic qualifing) likes to get in on the action alot, 3 assist already. Its good to see one of these guys carve out a career in North America

Going to be a tuff match on saturday! ALLEZ LE ROUGE!

Jeff s
03-29-2009, 02:28 AM
Meh, we're gonna face an away Seattle team, could be very different.

Btw, NY gave them the win on the first game, and I actually felt that todays score was a little flattering. RSL controlled most of the game. Especially in the second half.

LucaGol
03-29-2009, 08:21 AM
hmmm ... I wonder if teams were afraid of facing us away in year 1

djking2
03-29-2009, 08:35 AM
Who's afraid to face Seattle?

tfc007
03-29-2009, 08:36 AM
Yes,we need a monteiro like player,the more i see vitti, not to impressed with him,I think we need a big time striker (DP).Next week at the home opener vitti will be riding the pine again watch.

gtaguy
03-29-2009, 09:44 AM
i think montero should be the DP in seattle.. I hope the league does whatever they can to keep him in the mls. This kid is making a big impact i think the whole league is starting to take notice..

we defintely have our hands full next weekend . the goal he scored last night was another long distance strike that sailed right over the keepers head. It appears that he can score from any distance.

I wish toronto could get a player as quality as montero.. I am not impressed with vitti in any way.. I really don't see what carver or mojo see in him.. I guess only time will tell.

Roogsy
03-29-2009, 09:54 AM
This is what you get when you decide to sign a solid DP-type player. I know we have DeRo but to really dominate, I think we need to use the DP slot.

And of course...needless to say, get a CB.

Fushida
03-29-2009, 10:11 AM
Yes,we need a monteiro like player,the more i see vitti, not to impressed with him,I think we need a big time striker (DP).Next week at the home opener vitti will be riding the pine again watch.

Interesting you should say that... how many times HAVE you seen Vitti? Once? Twice? How do you judge someone based on that? Sheesh... give the boy a chance ffs.

Re: Montero, for all we know this is just a bit of hot form.. remember Amr Zaki this year in the premiership? He was the hottest thing around come December, and where is he now? Riding the bench. Let some MLS defences adjust to Montero then we'll see how good he is.

rocker
03-29-2009, 10:30 AM
I agree with some of the points in the thread about Montero disappearing when he faced physicality. Olave nailed his head into the sideboards at one point (got a yellow) and just stood over him like a boxer after a knockout. After that point Montero was invisible for about 30-35 minutes. RSL really dominated from about the 40th to the 70th, but just couldn't score. Then when RSL forgot about it and backed away from him, he blasted a shot from far out into the net.

So TFC need to monitor him at all times, and not be afraid of being physical (although it seemed the ref yesterday had his eyes glued to Montero to make sure he wasn't roughed up).

I also think both RSL and NYRB didn't test Keller enough. He's gonna make the easy saves, so you need to pepper him with shots and not try to make the perfect shot (as RSL tried on different occasions. Dichio would probably be useful in this regard to disrupt both their defense and the tall Keller.

I'll be curious to see how Seattle deals with their first road game. they've been home now for a while, and look comfortable at home, particularly with the great crowd energy supporting them. Now they have to take the first of many long flights across the continent into a hostile environment.

Lastly, while I would like to have "our own Montero" as someone suggested above, it's not like it's that easy to find a 21 year old like him. 13 other MLS teams didn't sign him either, and 13 other MLS teams don't have players like him. It's a unique situation... and if he does keep doing well, they will lose him soon guaranteed. Would we prefer good players who will stick around for years (De Ro) or great players who will only stopover for a short while?

Kickit09
03-29-2009, 10:30 AM
remember, we won our first 2 games at home last season too and went unbeaten in 9 home games untill it all started to go horribly wrong. seattle still hasnt played a game on the road so its way too early to tell how good seattle really is.

MartinUtd
03-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Two words:

Hull City

olegunnar
03-29-2009, 11:16 AM
They've done a good job of scoring early in both their games. That let them set the tone and let them hit back on the counter.

I wonder what they'll look like playing from behind....we'll find out on Saturday.

Oldtimer
03-29-2009, 11:32 AM
I'm worried about facing Seattle.

It's clear that this is not an expansion team. Having a base of 7 players from their USL side (and they deliberately signed some MLS-quality players during that final year) has given them a tremendous advantage over a team that starts from scratch. We'll probably see a similar effect with VAN and Portland when they come in.

They are a little thin as far as depth, but they are more like year 2 TFC, with a Montreal quality defense, plus a DP added. A very dangerous team, I expect them to make the playoffs. Saturday's game? Seattle will score a couple against us. It will depend on us penetrating a very good defense and scoring more than they will to win. Personally, I'm expecting a tie.

LucaGol
03-29-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm worried about facing Seattle.

It's clear that this is not an expansion team. Having a base of 7 players from their USL side (and they deliberately signed some MLS-quality players during that final year) has given them a tremendous advantage over a team that starts from scratch. We'll probably see a similar effect with VAN and Portland when they come in.

They are a little thin as far as depth, but they are more like year 2 TFC, with a Montreal quality defense, plus a DP added. A very dangerous team, I expect them to make the playoffs. Saturday's game? Seattle will score a couple against us. It will depend on us penetrating a very good defense and scoring more than they will to win. Personally, I'm expecting a tie.

1. Hurtado and Marshall is better than our current defense.

2. I don't remember us having any explosive players like Freddy Montero, Steve Zakuani and Sanna Nyassi in our 2nd year.

3. Kasey Keller is already the league's best shot stopper. We had Kenny Stamatopolous and Srdjan Djekanovic manning the nets for most of our 2nd year.

4. They actually do have depth ... several serviceable MLS quality players are available off the bench ... Ianni, Vagenas, Sturgis, Wahl, one of Nyassi or Zakuani when Ljungberg's fully fit.

5. Oh ya ... they weren't cheap enough to spend money on a DP ... and surprise ... it hasn't handicapped them in their ability to put what is apparently one of the best team's in the league already (albeit only judging them form preseason and 2 regular season games)


Seattle is more like a year 6 TFC.

Yohan
03-29-2009, 12:11 PM
Saw Seattle game last night and was pretty impressed actually. Defensively you can expose them but generally well organized. Likes to counterattack really fast, using fullbacks running on the flanks.
Midfield was solid. Alonso is a real deal DM. And enough depth in mid. And didnt look out of place without Ljungberg playing. Ljungberg is still not match fit so he'll probably be a sub next game.
Montero has bunch of tricks but physical play will keep him honest.

It'll be different for Seattle on the road. Seattle upsetting Toronto is not out of question but I dont think Seattle will be as effective as they are at home.

Seattle is bit of one trick pony at this point. Ljungberg was injured and havent fully integrated into the squad so Seattle relies on Montero to make things happen.

We'll see what happens on Sat

Oldtimer
03-29-2009, 12:42 PM
1. Hurtado and Marshall is better than our current defense.



Disagree about the defense.

Seattle's defense looks good for 2 reasons:

(1) Their offense is so strong, it relieves the defense of some of their duties.

(2) Their defense holds it's shape well (much like Montreal).

I don't think there is a lot of talent there, (Marshall certainly wasn't brilliant for us), it just looks good because of those two factors.

bhoybobby
03-29-2009, 12:46 PM
Letting Marshall go was a mistake, we didn't improve on what we had with him, so why????

Pachuco
03-29-2009, 12:55 PM
Disagree about the defense.

Seattle's defense looks good for 2 reasons:

(1) Their offense is so strong, it relieves the defense of some of their duties.

(2) Their defense holds it's shape well (much like Montreal).

I don't think there is a lot of talent there, (Marshall certainly wasn't brilliant for us), it just looks good because of those two factors.

Marshall was great for us. We miss him terribly at this point. Seattle had a lot of defending to do yesterday because RSL had decent ball posession.

I can see some people on here eating their words, specially those that tried to convince me Seattle was no better then TFC's first year team ;)

ExiledRed
03-29-2009, 12:56 PM
Disagree about the defense.

Seattle's defense looks good for 2 reasons:

(1) Their offense is so strong, it relieves the defense of some of their duties.

(2) Their defense holds it's shape well (much like Montreal).

I don't think there is a lot of talent there, (Marshall certainly wasn't brilliant for us), it just looks good because of those two factors.

At times Marshall was brilliant for us, and like you say, with a strong offense defenders have some relief, which our defence didnt get much of the last two seasons. Marshall was an enforcer for Seattle last night, and guess what, out of 38 MLS goals, none have been against Seattle.

In fact you hit the nail right on the head. Having a strong offense, is as good as having another defender, which is why fixating on a CB for the DP role is so short sighted, and why picking on our defenders for last seasons mistakes was absurd, when our offense was the real problem.

I'm with Bobby, losing Marshall was a bad mistake.

ExiledRed
03-29-2009, 01:01 PM
Seattle is bit of one trick pony at this point. Ljungberg was injured and havent fully integrated into the squad so Seattle relies on Montero to make things happen.

We'll see what happens on Sat

It's a great trick that, maybe we should learn it.

How does it go, you dominate opposing teams, deny them space, wait for them to commit and then burst out at them from nowhere scoring beautiful goals while keeping a clean sheet.

It's a bit of a multi faceted trick, but I guess it's 'one' trick.

ensco
03-29-2009, 01:37 PM
Letting Marshall go was a mistake, we didn't improve on what we had with him, so why????

I'm guessing it was the cap. He makes almost exactly what Serioux makes.

Which brings me back to something I'm going to start harping on - where did the Edu money go? We got $3.3 million, of which 2/3 was supposed to be "reinvested" in the team (remember Mo wanted to use the money for installing grass?).

The razzle-dazzle around allocations etc is a shell game designed in part to make opaque the fact that a large part of these funds went to ownership, not to the team.

Beach_Red
03-29-2009, 01:43 PM
I'm guessing it was the cap. He makes almost exactly what Serioux makes.

Which brings me back to something I'm going to start harping on - where did the Edu money go? We got $3.3 million, of which 2/3 was supposed to be "reinvested" in the team (remember Mo wanted to use the money for installing grass?).

The razzle-dazzle around allocations etc is a shell game designed in part to make opaque the fact that a large part of these funds went to ownership, not to the team.

The cap, or some other backroom deal - it's crazy for us to think that what happens in these deals is transparent.

And yes, what about that Edu money? It does seem to have disappeared...

mjongstra
03-29-2009, 01:50 PM
Does anyone know if any of their supporters are coming to BMO?

Redpunkfiddle
03-29-2009, 01:53 PM
The cap, or some other backroom deal - it's crazy for us to think that what happens in these deals is transparent.

And yes, what about that Edu money? It does seem to have disappeared...

How about we at least bitch based on the facts. Do a search and you'll find a discussion of the Edu money, which is regulated by MLS- a portion to be used for allocation, a larger proportion to be used for improvement in team infrastructure (like grass for the field)- the later held in trust by the league.

How about calling out the risk of trading Marshall without having the new CB locked up (the one that has been 'on his way' for weeks)? That's a point of debate at least.

But no, the money has disappeard! Its a backroom deal!

ua-kozak_TFC
03-29-2009, 01:58 PM
Yea those who are still playing down Seattle's team. I don't know what to say... they clearly are a great team... not only they kept a clean sheet on both matches more importantly THE WAY they played the game... everytime they had the ball you could feel the momentum.. felt like they could score at will... They have a great offensive power plus their defence is pretty tight that makes them, a very dangerous and strong club...I unfortunately don;t see the ease in transition and the good ball control in TFC that i saw in seattle last night....

I said it before the season started and i say it again. They are the team to beat this season ...Sad thing is they are the expansion team. You don;t have to wait 5 years.. to build a team that can play soccer...

Canadian Blue
03-29-2009, 01:59 PM
I think Seattle will be a good game but if JC assigns Cronin/Robbo to man mark Montero I think we will be fine.

SilverSamurai
03-29-2009, 01:59 PM
I wouldn't be too worried. They play well at home, but their's a reason BMO is considered the most hostile ground in MLS.
It wasn't given the name "fortress" for nothing...

Also I think it's going to be safe to say that 6+ months w/o a game at BMO the crowds are going to be into it.
Let the streamers fly. lol

TFC win. 2-1.

Inklink
03-29-2009, 02:10 PM
OT: I love Seattle's field. And those electronic ad boards.

Back on topic: GET A CB! :o

Seattle was cutting their opponents apart in their first two games. Monterro's scary.

tfctillidie
03-29-2009, 02:27 PM
The East is still tougher...(except that Shiite team Red Bulls) lol

Keegan
03-29-2009, 04:16 PM
Montero is a menance on the field, but when RSL got physical with him, he seemed to disapear for a bit, but then out of no where stuck from 30 some odd yards...

Ljundberg did not look special at all, him and Montero were bumping into each other alot

Le Toux is very speedy, gotta watch out for that

Jaqua seems like an opertunistic big man, he is no DD though

Keller, the old man is 39 and wearing what appeared to be track pants...but he got the job done (threw the ball 3/4 the length of the feild)

Alonso (one of the cubans who defected durring olympic qualifing) likes to get in on the action alot, 3 assist already. Its good to see one of these guys carve out a career in North America

Going to be a tuff match on saturday! ALLEZ LE ROUGE!

If you mean he is a lot better than DD I agree.

I thought Ljunberg looked as good as you can expect for a guy who has just come off surgery and started training. Playing a debut after an injury I thought he looked really good. He is not going to take over games like De Rosario or Montero but he will be a solid player here like Darren Huckerby.

Beach_Red
03-29-2009, 04:28 PM
Yea those who are still playing down Seattle's team. I don't know what to say... they clearly are a great team... not only they kept a clean sheet on both matches more importantly THE WAY they played the game... everytime they had the ball you could feel the momentum.. felt like they could score at will... They have a great offensive power plus their defence is pretty tight that makes them, a very dangerous and strong club...I unfortunately don;t see the ease in transition and the good ball control in TFC that i saw in seattle last night....

I said it before the season started and i say it again. They are the team to beat this season ...Sad thing is they are the expansion team. You don;t have to wait 5 years.. to build a team that can play soccer...

A few posts before yours, Oltimer posted:

It's clear that this is not an expansion team. Having a base of 7 players from their USL side (and they deliberately signed some MLS-quality players during that final year) has given them a tremendous advantage over a team that starts from scratch.

He's right. Seattle's doing a good job and that's good for the league, but let's not get carried away.

What I really want to know is, with all this money the expansion teams are paying to get into the league, when will the salary cap be raised?

Yohan
03-29-2009, 04:34 PM
What I really want to know is, with all this money the expansion teams are paying to get into the league, when will the salary cap be raised?

Even with a $1 million in salary cap raise, that's what 16million bucks in increased cost. Combined with seeing how many teams are actually making a positive profit, plus recession, I dont think MLS is going to go for significant raise in salary cap anytime soon.

The expansion fees aren't going to come in forever. Once no more expansion fees, then what?

Ron Manager
03-29-2009, 04:44 PM
I'm guessing it was the cap. He makes almost exactly what Serioux makes.

Which brings me back to something I'm going to start harping on - where did the Edu money go? We got $3.3 million, of which 2/3 was supposed to be "reinvested" in the team (remember Mo wanted to use the money for installing grass?).

The razzle-dazzle around allocations etc is a shell game designed in part to make opaque the fact that a large part of these funds went to ownership, not to the team.

I seem to recall that out of the 3.3 million, only $500 000 could be used as allocation money (ie players) The rest had to go into other aspects of the club (facilities, academy, coaching staff etc.) Hence, all the talk about getting grass etc.

ua-kozak_TFC
03-29-2009, 06:22 PM
A few posts before yours, Oltimer posted:

It's clear that this is not an expansion team. Having a base of 7 players from their USL side (and they deliberately signed some MLS-quality players during that final year) has given them a tremendous advantage over a team that starts from scratch.

He's right. Seattle's doing a good job and that's good for the league, but let's not get carried away.

What I really want to know is, with all this money the expansion teams are paying to get into the league, when will the salary cap be raised?

according to the official website it;s 6 yet only 2 players are in the actual team that plays every week...subs included.
The point i am trying to make is this. I think that seattle did an more than excellent job at putting the squad together...(my opinion will stand even if we beat them next week) They are playing better than TFC has ever played, i think that not a lot of people can deny that. While we still have have BIG problems in year 3... even defense asside...

I am not convinced with the wings... rohan great personallity... but is not an effective midfielder. on the left side we have problems as well...
we pretty much got the same problematic team as last year +DERO(and vitti) although dero is an ENOURMOUS plus, but the core of the team is still just as bad as last year

LucaGol
03-29-2009, 06:30 PM
It's a great trick that, maybe we should learn it.

How does it go, you dominate opposing teams, deny them space, wait for them to commit and then burst out at them from nowhere scoring beautiful goals while keeping a clean sheet.

It's a bit of a multi faceted trick, but I guess it's 'one' trick.

I love this post ....

bhoybobby
03-29-2009, 06:33 PM
We're a much better squad than last year. The only thing I'm disappointed in is Rohan Ricketts still being way over rated & Serioux replacing Marshall. That & the fact interbational duties may bite our arses again

Oldtimer
03-29-2009, 07:37 PM
according to the official website it;s 6 yet only 2 players are in the actual team that plays every week...subs included.


7 according to the Direct Kick announcers.
Maybe the website is old, or they got it wrong.
Moot point. They needed 6 or 7 less players, yet got a full expansion draft and allocation like a team that had to start from scratch. So they are NOT a new team.

ensco
03-29-2009, 08:31 PM
I seem to recall that out of the 3.3 million, only $500 000 could be used as allocation money (ie players) The rest had to go into other aspects of the club (facilities, academy, coaching staff etc.) Hence, all the talk about getting grass etc.

You forgot players.

Per Goff, when discussing the Altidore transfer: The team gets most of the fee (but not all, the league keeps either a third or a quarter, depending on which source you read), but only 500k can be spent on the cap. The rest can be spent on a DP, the youth system, or "club related expenses."

Based on what we know, MLSE swallowed $2.8 million of the $3.3 million.

stretchthetruth
03-29-2009, 08:49 PM
pfffff fuck seattle... the honeymoon ends next weekend.

LucaGol
03-29-2009, 09:03 PM
You forgot players.

Per Goff, when discussing the Altidore transfer: The team gets most of the fee (but not all, the league keeps either a third or a quarter, depending on which source you read), but only 500k can be spent on the cap. The rest can be spent on a DP, the youth system, or "club related expenses."

Based on what we know, MLSE swallowed $2.8 million of the $3.3 million.

Bella vita ... this MLS thing just keeps getting better and better for Anselmi and the boys.

Redcoe15
03-29-2009, 09:38 PM
Yeah, they look good in their pointyball stadium. But wait 'till they they go on the road for the first time and play on BMO Field facing an impressive TFC in their home debut in front of a jacked up crowd screaming their lungs off. I expect the Sounders to add some brown to their green and blue unis. :canada: :D

S_D
03-29-2009, 09:47 PM
You forgot players.

Per Goff, when discussing the Altidore transfer: The team gets most of the fee (but not all, the league keeps either a third or a quarter, depending on which source you read), but only 500k can be spent on the cap. The rest can be spent on a DP, the youth system, or "club related expenses."

Based on what we know, MLSE swallowed $2.8 million of the $3.3 million.

just as an FYI

MLS holds onto the cash in trust to prevent teams from just pocketing the cash. When they are ready to spend it on the things you listed above, MLS releases the bucks. I assume that there is some sort of approval system in place i.e. the team has to tell MLS what they are spending it on.

Shakes McQueen
03-29-2009, 11:57 PM
Seattle looks good, but still too early to judge how well they will do this season.

- They haven't played an away game
- They haven't endured significant injuries yet
- Defenses will start to figure out Montero and Jaqua

I actually hope they do well, because that will mean they beat some of our conference rivals, which helps us.

- Scott

ensco
03-30-2009, 06:34 AM
just as an FYI

MLS holds onto the cash in trust to prevent teams from just pocketing the cash. When they are ready to spend it on the things you listed above, MLS releases the bucks. I assume that there is some sort of approval system in place i.e. the team has to tell MLS what they are spending it on.

I mean no disrespect, but could you source this comment please?

Shakes McQueen
03-30-2009, 06:55 AM
I mean no disrespect, but could you source this comment please?

My understanding was the same as S_D's. TFC FO has to get approval from MLS, for whatever they spend the money on. It ensures that money spent sending players out of the league, get's spent upgrading the league in some small way.

Can't be bothered to find a source for that. I'll leave it to someone less lazy. :D

- Scott

Still Kicking
03-30-2009, 07:24 AM
We're a much better squad than last year. The only thing I'm disappointed in is Rohan Ricketts still being way over rated & Serioux replacing Marshall. That & the fact interbational duties may bite our arses again
I agree that we are a better squad than last and Ricketts is a puzzle. When he needed to shine in Columbus, he had nothing. Respectfully disagree about Marshall vs Serioux, I think Serioux wins on age, offensive talent (passing the ball, throwing the ball), defensive determination and leadership. The Serioux I saw in Columbus was bossing around Velez and taking charge of the back. Pair him with a strong CB signing and TFC will be set. I am pleased that Tyrone Marshall is having a great time in Seattle. He served Toronto well and is having his last hurrah. A year or two or five from now TFC may still have Serioux...

maninb
03-30-2009, 09:43 AM
"They are the team to beat this season"???? LOL!

That's based on 2 games...one against a crap NY team and a mediocre RSL team...both at home....get real!

Fort York Redcoat
03-30-2009, 09:56 AM
RSL are no mugs right now. Seattle is a top team right now. We'll see how long they can maintain the success. Toronto has a test on their hands but they are a better team than last year that are not playing their best yet. Saturday we'll do our part and they should do theirs.

Pachuco
03-30-2009, 10:06 AM
"They are the team to beat this season"???? LOL!

That's based on 2 games...one against a crap NY team and a mediocre RSL team...both at home....get real!

That's a real intelligent post :rolleyes:.

Angelo1405
03-30-2009, 10:25 AM
those electronic ads are sexy. every team should have one

S_D
03-30-2009, 10:45 AM
I mean no disrespect, but could you source this comment please?

No disrespect taken. Knowing MLSE we all are pretty sceptical about them when it comes to money :D

I wish I had kept all of the links to the info I dug up when putting the TFC - Picks/Trades/Int Slots/Allocations (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4655) thread together.

I started doing it a bit later on but the information is correct. If I come across the link to the info I will send it to you by PM and update the above thread as well.

One question though that remains (and I asked about it in the thread but nobody found the answer) is that can they use the funds to replace already existing expenditures, thereby pocketing the cash that was originally earmarked for the existing expenditures out of the TFC budget.

rocker
03-30-2009, 11:07 AM
here's the source on the use of the transfer fee requiring approval from MLS.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/08/19/edusigns-grass.html

remember that TFC did not own Maurice Edu's contract. It was owned by MLS and thus TFC never directly received any of the money from the transfer. So the assumption that TFC just "pocketed" the money wouldn't make sense, theoretically.

on any transfer, the money goes straight to the MLS bank account. MLS is the only authority to then decide where that money goes. As the above article notes, Mojo has to make a proposal to the MLS board on what to do with the money.

nimamalek
03-30-2009, 11:17 AM
RSL was the better team by far, and the second goal came on a break and it was a mistake by the keeper. I think if we can finish our chances then we should be fine. They've never played away from home, it should be interesting to see how they play on the road.

rocker
03-30-2009, 11:29 AM
RSL was the better team by far,.

agreed. Seattle really didn't get much going in the game, beyond the opening 10-15 minutes. They just "took their chances" as the Brits say.

RSL dominated that second half... but they didn't have someone highly skilled in finishing to make it count.

trane
03-30-2009, 11:29 AM
Clearly they are a far supperior team then we were in our first season. Their managemnt shuold be congratulated, but lets not crown them MLS champs quite yet. give them 10 games , and we will see how they look then.

LucaGol
03-30-2009, 11:35 AM
RSL was the better team by far, and the second goal came on a break and it was a mistake by the keeper. I think if we can finish our chances then we should be fine. They've never played away from home, it should be interesting to see how they play on the road.

The first half was actually dominated by the Sounders. Zakuani and Jaqua should have netted insurance markers after the opening goal.

The second half was tilted in favour of RSL ... Keller had a big part to play in keeping the clean sheet no doubt. Above all else, beating Keller should be our main concern. He won't be intimidated by some silly little streamers.

The fact that it's the first road game will be a challenge for them but two things that won't work in our favour against the Sounders that works tremendously against other teams is:

a) The playing surface

b) The atmosphere (in terms of size not hostility ... obviously that will be different)

Both of which Seattle is already used to.

rocker
03-30-2009, 11:40 AM
Seattle got off to a great start.. first 25 minutes. but after that they slowed down considerably. Zakuani's and Jacqua's chances were early in the game.
From about the 30th minute to near the end, it was all RSL in possession.
Montero's goal in the second half was completely against the run of play. And RSL dominated possession in the second half... it was wave after wave of RSL coming forward.

here's will johnson's take on the game

http://www.mls-daily.com/2009/03/growing-up-on-kop-8.html

ExiledRed
03-30-2009, 12:01 PM
^^ Yeah right, RSL was the better team, Montero's goal was a fluke and Seattle are mediocre. It's a miracle that Seattle have two clean sheets and the biggest goal advantage in the league, because they are an expansion side and will inevitably underperform the rest of MLS.

Ok Rocker. Gotcha.

How about I increase the stakes on that bet.

Seattle is a top 4 team this year, or $40? take it?

Pachuco
03-30-2009, 12:11 PM
Seattle got off to a great start.. first 25 minutes. but after that they slowed down considerably. Zakuani's and Jacqua's chances were early in the game.
From about the 30th minute to near the end, it was all RSL in possession.
Montero's goal in the second half was completely against the run of play. And RSL dominated possession in the second half... it was wave after wave of RSL coming forward.

here's will johnson's take on the game

http://www.mls-daily.com/2009/03/growing-up-on-kop-8.html

So what's your point? that Seattle wasn't deserving of the win because RSL dominated the second half? Sorry to break it to you, unless you score goals you don't deserve to win. Seattle won 2-0, both goals were in the run of play, so there are no excuses. Oh, and if RSL dominated as much as you say they did (I saw the game and disagree) then you have to give your props to Seattle's defense for holding strong. Either way you look at it, you are simply trying to make excuses for Seattle's win. Why not just own up and say you under-estimated how good they would be?

Frank Costanza
03-30-2009, 02:47 PM
Hello Red Patch boys, frank costanza here, one of the most die hard TFC fans on earth, glad to be chatting with ya'll

How about Seattle FC(sounders) I thought this would be a team that would sit at the bottom of the whole league with Sj and Dallas Fc, and they have surprised many with 2 wins in their first 2 matches. Of course their first road game will be made quite tough by the best fan base in all of mls, the best fan base in all of sports.
Those who were tough on Vitti, i think we didnt really see the best of what he has yet, mainly cause we were missing some additonal speed in the midfield, when amado comes back and carl takes care of the backend, dewayne wont have to be playing as much 2 way and we can see vitti getting deep feeds.
How do you guys feel about Marco velez replacing Kevin Harmse in the back????? not just cause of the penalty but i saw some sloppy play from harmse in both matches gives me the idea he thinks he is untouchable not this yr not with our depth

mighty_torontofc_2008
03-30-2009, 03:02 PM
At times Marshall was brilliant for us, and like you say, with a strong offense defenders have some relief, which our defence didnt get much of the last two seasons. Marshall was an enforcer for Seattle last night, and guess what, out of 38 MLS goals, none have been against Seattle.

In fact you hit the nail right on the head. Having a strong offense, is as good as having another defender, which is why fixating on a CB for the DP role is so short sighted, and why picking on our defenders for last seasons mistakes was absurd, when our offense was the real problem.

I'm with Bobby, losing Marshall was a bad mistake.

Marshall was a great player for TFC and yes we should have Kept him,
TFC must have a replacement coming in once the euro/s.american season ends...maybe use Robbo at the back to shore up the defence.

jloome
03-30-2009, 03:09 PM
Seattle got off to a great start.. first 25 minutes. but after that they slowed down considerably. Zakuani's and Jacqua's chances were early in the game.
From about the 30th minute to near the end, it was all RSL in possession.
Montero's goal in the second half was completely against the run of play. And RSL dominated possession in the second half... it was wave after wave of RSL coming forward.

here's will johnson's take on the game

http://www.mls-daily.com/2009/03/growing-up-on-kop-8.html

Despite the critics, this is pretty accurate. RSL did control the pace of most of the game. But it was pretty bogged down in the midfield, with neither team creating much.

Exiled, he said it was against the run of play, not that it was lucky. How does simply stating what the game stats bear out equate to dissing Seattle somehow, or not appreciating that they're a good team?

Real Salt LakeSeattle Sounders FC Total Shots:13/12 Shots on Goal:5/4 Total Saves:2/5 Fouls:14/13 Offsides: 0/0 Corner Kicks:12/8

It's a shame they don't keep time of possession in MLS, since RSL got the better of that, too.

Face it: Seattle IS a good team. But they're not an MLS-dominant team, they're a decent MLS team with one player who can dominate the whole league.

Is that enough to finish top four? Probably, yeah. It might even be enough to win the title and for Montero to break Roy Lassiter's 27-goal season record, since I can't see him averaging much under a goal a game.

But it's not a black and white equation. Most things never are.

ensco
03-30-2009, 03:21 PM
here's the source on the use of the transfer fee requiring approval from MLS.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/08/19/edusigns-grass.html

remember that TFC did not own Maurice Edu's contract. It was owned by MLS and thus TFC never directly received any of the money from the transfer. So the assumption that TFC just "pocketed" the money wouldn't make sense, theoretically.

on any transfer, the money goes straight to the MLS bank account. MLS is the only authority to then decide where that money goes. As the above article notes, Mojo has to make a proposal to the MLS board on what to do with the money.

Sorry Rocker, but that link is not a source for the definitive statement that MLS witholds the proceeds of the transfer fee.

S D, I hear you. Lots of respect for the effort you put into that thread

Conclusion: for a league that outlaws smoke bombs in the stands, they sure throw a few off the field.

ExiledRed
03-30-2009, 03:23 PM
The stats portray a fairly even game, but in my opinion Seattle were in control and never looked like they would concede. RSL threw everything at Seattle who quite calmly weathered the onslaught and countered effectively.

I watched the game too, and I never once thought that RSL looked like they would recover from the first goal, and I was right. They lost two goals to nothing, and that's the most important statistic of all.

Beach_Red
03-30-2009, 03:27 PM
Face it: Seattle IS a good team. But they're not an MLS-dominant team, they're a decent MLS team with one player who can dominate the whole league.


What was the story on him giong home just before the season started? Is everyone satisfied the whole story came to light?

ExiledRed
03-30-2009, 03:30 PM
btw Jloome, you can take that bet if Rocker wont.

Markham_RPB
03-30-2009, 03:31 PM
5 GF
0 GA
2 home wins....

They have yet to see how hostile BMO field is !

Yohan
03-30-2009, 03:34 PM
Face it: Seattle IS a good team. But they're not an MLS-dominant team, they're a decent MLS team with one player who can dominate the whole league.
possibly two.. can't forget Freddie

ensco
03-30-2009, 03:36 PM
btw Jloome, you can take that bet if Rocker wont.

Going 2-0 is less meaningful than going 0-2.

Going 2-0 doesn't necessarily mean you'll be great, but going 0-2 generally means you'll suck.

I wouldn't take the bet, though :)

On top of what's been said above, Ljungberg may be the best player to ever play in MLS. He's only two years removed from being one of the top players in the world. What if he gets going.....

ExiledRed
03-30-2009, 03:44 PM
Going 2-0 is less meaningful than going 0-2.

Going 2-0 doesn't necessarily mean you'll be great, but going 0-2 generally means you'll suck.

I wouldn't take the bet, though :)

On top of what's been said above, Ljungberg may be the best player to ever play in MLS. He's only two years removed from being one of the top players in the world. What if he gets going.....

Seattle didn't eke out these wins. They didn't have to fight hard for them, and they never looked like losing or tying either game.
Their on field product was instantly entertaining to watch, and their goals have been attractive goals. In their first two games in history, they have outscored every MLS team and conceded none.

Does that add some meaning to the 2-0 statistic?

ensco
03-30-2009, 04:18 PM
Seattle didn't eke out these wins. They didn't have to fight hard for them, and they never looked like losing or tying either game.
Their on field product was instantly entertaining to watch, and their goals have been attractive goals. In their first two games in history, they have outscored every MLS team and conceded none.

Does that add some meaning to the 2-0 statistic?

Yes. I only saw the highlights, but I rate RSL very highly. They were very unlucky against NY last year, and should have been in the MLS final. They'd have been the favorite in that game. Also....

(i) as an expansion team, SSFC have never played together and should have a greater rate of improvement than other teams do (remember us in May and June 2007, as compared to how we looked in our first three games?)

(ii) the Ljungberg factor, as above

(iii) They have a way-above-average GK. Unlike most MLS keepers, Keller doesn't need lessons on how to organize his defenders on set pieces.

I wouldn't take the bet.

trane
03-30-2009, 04:20 PM
At the very end, at the begining of this season, I got pissed at Marshall due to an interview in which he seemed more concerned about the LA/Beckham/Milan saga, rather then on TFC, that ticked me off, and I said that he shuold be moved. But trufully I found that, while far from perfect he has been our most consistent defender in our time here. However, at the time I also though we would be bringing in to CBs.

Dirk Diggler
03-30-2009, 06:31 PM
I wasn't really a huge fan of Marshall but I would've liked to see Mo somehow manage to keep him and Serioux on the backline, rather than the Serioux + some shitty guy rotation that we have going on right now.

ua-kozak_TFC
03-30-2009, 08:40 PM
Seattle didn't eke out these wins. They didn't have to fight hard for them, and they never looked like losing or tying either game.
Their on field product was instantly entertaining to watch, and their goals have been attractive goals. In their first two games in history, they have outscored every MLS team and conceded none.

Does that add some meaning to the 2-0 statistic?
THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone with a brain and an objective eye on this board...

Thus far seattle has shown that they are a better team in the first year than TFC in their third. I base my desicion on game play alone....If some people are not men enough to admitt it then i am sorry for them...

ensco
03-30-2009, 08:54 PM
THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone with a brain and an objective eye on this board...

Thus far seattle has shown that they are a better team in the first year than TFC in their third. I base my desicion on game play alone....If some people are not men enough to admitt it then i am sorry for them...


As Chinese premier Chou En Lai said, when asked in 1976 about the lessons of the French Revolution....

"It's probably too soon to say".

ua-kozak_TFC
03-30-2009, 09:02 PM
As Chinese premier Chou En Lai said, when asked in 1976 about the lessons of the French Revolution....

"It's probably too soon to say".
i feel pretty confident that at the end of the season my opinion will stay the same...i don;t need 5 years to judge a team.

Yohan
03-30-2009, 09:02 PM
THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone with a brain and an objective eye on this board...

Thus far seattle has shown that they are a better team in the first year than TFC in their third. I base my desicion on game play alone....If some people are not men enough to admitt it then i am sorry for them...
Seattle has been building up to join MLS ever since they were announced to be a team.

Hence why in their finals years they stocked up on talents like Le Toux, Nyassi, Scott, Alonso.

SEATTLE IS NOT A BRAND NEW TEAM LIKE TFC WAS!

ExiledRed
03-30-2009, 10:02 PM
Seattle has been building up to join MLS ever since they were announced to be a team.

Hence why in their finals years they stocked up on talents like Le Toux, Nyassi, Scott, Alonso.

SEATTLE IS NOT A BRAND NEW TEAM LIKE TFC WAS!

I'll concede this point, but like you say, Seattle did everything they could to make sure they started with a team that could not only compete, but compete well. They got a DP, scouted excellently and stocked up on talent. It's obvious to me that the sounders priority has been success on the pitch.

I feel that the on field product was less of a concern to MLSE, they simply needed a team that could exist in MLS. They concentrated on the supporters and the chip butties and the atmosphere and whatever would raise their profile as the cool ticket in Toronto. Case in point, Anselmi stated on TV that the reason we didnt have a DP was because we'd already sold our tickets.... need I say more?

Yohan
03-30-2009, 10:07 PM
I'll concede this point, but like you say, Seattle did everything they could to make sure they started with a team that could not only compete, but compete well. They got a DP, scouted excellently and stocked up on talent. It's obvious to me that the sounders priority has been success on the pitch.

I feel that the on field product was less of a concern to MLSE, they simply needed a team that could exist in MLS. They concentrated on the supporters and the chip butties and the atmosphere and whatever would raise their profile as the cool ticket in Toronto. Case in point, Anselmi stated on TV that the reason we didnt have a DP was because we'd already sold our tickets.... need I say more?
-TFC did not have have a scouting infrastructure. These things take time to build. Seattle on the other hand, have existed for a long time, and albeit in USL, have probably developed a scouting system for a while
-TFC in year one had to scramble to find players. Because of the domestic player rule, TFC basically signed any half decent Canadian who could kick a ball and hoped for the best. Hence why we got stuck with players like Reda, Braz and Canizalez while Seattle with US domestic pool has better options to sign players (and they signed wisely)
Even with a shite team, TFC was pretty competitive for a while, before the injury bug and lack of depth killed season 1
-DP has not proven to guarantee success in MLS. It remains to be seen whether Ljungberg will be a success, or will he be another Denilson

I feel like same argument gets repeated all over and over and over...

It remains to be seen whether Vancouver will suffer same problem as TFC yr 1, but with an existing structure and system in place, Shitecraps should have an easier time. However, it'll be a tug of war between Vancouver and Toronto over domestic Canadian talent

Pigfynn
03-30-2009, 10:12 PM
Exiled,

I honestly appreciate when a post is well thought out and concise. I love and respect the close involvement of Paul et al, but I remain cautious and sometimes suspect of the true motivations of the powers that be.

We have all heard the "we are in this to win" speech from tons of sporting organizations before.

james
03-30-2009, 10:13 PM
well us supporters gotta step it up a notch to cheer are boys on and show Seattle fans that BMO still has the best atmosphere in MLS!

S_D
03-30-2009, 10:17 PM
Yes. I only saw the highlights, but I rate RSL very highly. They were very unlucky against NY last year, and should have been in the MLS final. They'd have been the favorite in that game. Also....

(i) as an expansion team, SSFC have never played together and should have a greater rate of improvement than other teams do (remember us in May and June 2007, as compared to how we looked in our first three games?)

(ii) the Ljungberg factor, as above

(iii) They have a way-above-average GK. Unlike most MLS keepers, Keller doesn't need lessons on how to organize his defenders on set pieces.

I wouldn't take the bet.

haha neither would I. I watched almost the entire game and RSL got owned and I think that they are a pretty good team. It will take a little while for teams to learn what Seattle does to create an effective counter. RSL certainly disrupted their team when they played with more grit but didn't really keep it up. They gave Seattle way too much space in the midfield and paid for it.

I think Seattle's first 11 is quality. What remains to be seen is how their depth works out for them when they get the injuries and slew of games during the USOC.

Pachuco
03-30-2009, 10:42 PM
haha neither would I. I watched almost the entire game and RSL got owned and I think that they are a pretty good team. It will take a little while for teams to learn what Seattle does to create an effective counter. RSL certainly disrupted their team when they played with more grit but didn't really keep it up. They gave Seattle way too much space in the midfield and paid for it.

I think Seattle's first 11 is quality. What remains to be seen is how their depth works out for them when they get the injuries and slew of games during the USOC.

Actually, their first 13 are quality as far as we know. Nyassi didn't even play last game and to me he looked amazing in the first game. Ljunberg is playing as the 12th man right now. Beyond that, I have no idea how their depth is but god damn they look good. I think I will run around BMO field 15 times if we beat Seattle. I can't wait for this match.

EvanVidinu
03-30-2009, 11:06 PM
5 Goals For..Yes
0 Goals Against..Yes
6 Points...Yes
2 Wins Out Of 2 Games...Yes

But have they played at BMO?! NO!!!
STREAK IS GOING TO END SATURDAY GUYS!!!!!!
AS SOON AS THEY STEP ONTO THE FIELD, THEY WILL SHIT THEIR PANTS AND GO RIGHT BACK INTO THE LOCKER ROOM!
TFC BABY!

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-30-2009, 11:34 PM
Seattle got off to a great start.. first 25 minutes. but after that they slowed down considerably. Zakuani's and Jacqua's chances were early in the game.
From about the 30th minute to near the end, it was all RSL in possession.
Montero's goal in the second half was completely against the run of play. And RSL dominated possession in the second half... it was wave after wave of RSL coming forward.

here's will johnson's take on the game

http://www.mls-daily.com/2009/03/growing-up-on-kop-8.html

you , sir are just jealous of the New Colombian talent named Montero :hump:

rocker
03-30-2009, 11:48 PM
you , sir are just jealous of the New Colombian talent named Montero :hump:

you sir, aren't watching the whole 90 minutes ;)

I'll let it go tho.. you've got a big crush on Montero... it's so cute.
I bet you're planning to move to Seattle and stop supporting TFC ;)

H Bomb
03-30-2009, 11:55 PM
i feel pretty confident that at the end of the season my opinion will stay the same...i don;t need 5 years to judge a team.

you might need more than 3 hours though

ua-kozak_TFC
03-31-2009, 05:11 AM
you might need more than 3 hours though
3 hours is more than enough...to scout any team or player. If you watched the fullgames that seatle played you know that unless....somehow all the players are gone because of some serious infectious disease or soemthin.... Seattle will dominate this year with flying colours...


you sir, aren't watching the whole 90 minutes ;)

I'll let it go tho.. you've got a big crush on Montero... it's so cute.
I bet you're planning to move to Seattle and stop supporting TFC ;)

Yea god forbit a TFC fan states that a team in the MLS is playing well... because he wouldn;t be a REAL FAN...
A REAL TFC fan is someone who...
DOesn;t question COaches' desicions...
Thinks that every players on TFC is the best player ever...
thinks MOJO is like Wegner and SirFerguson combined when it comes to scouting players...

Oldtimer
03-31-2009, 05:36 AM
3 hours is more than enough...to scout any team or player. If you watched the fullgames that seatle played you know that unless....somehow all the players are gone because of some serious infectious disease or soemthin.... Seattle will dominate this year with flying colours...


You know, you're right... and I'm really impressed with how Hull City is in 3rd place in the Premiership this year,,, :rolleyes: oh wait! It changed during the year?

Shakes McQueen
03-31-2009, 05:48 AM
You know, you're right... and I'm really impressed with how Hull City is in 3rd place in the Premiership this year,,, :rolleyes: oh wait! It changed during the year?

Pretty much the perfect response, haha.

Hull City started off like a whirlwind, then as teams got wise to their style and strategy, and their momentum slowed, and they lost a man or two to cards or injuries, they began a steep slide down the table. It took more than two games to figure them out, too.

I doubt Seattle will face quite the same fate (since, for starters, they aren't REALLY an expansion side), but I'm also not ready to crown their asses after two strong performances at home.

Let's see how they respond to adversity when they go down a goal in a game for the first time, or when they lose a player or two to injury, or when they don't have a friendly crowd at their back, or when they go on their first win-less streak for a few weeks. If in 10 weeks or so, they are still easily top of the table in the West, I will gladly say they are a real threat for MLS "domination".

But for now, that's a lot of questions they have yet to answer in two weeks.

- Scott

ensco
03-31-2009, 07:35 AM
What a great home opener opponent.

Oldtimer
03-31-2009, 07:44 AM
Montero was a gift to Seattle, and is responsible for most of their success so far. FWIW, he was scouted by the league, and Seattle got him because of their place in the allocation table. It has nothing to do with their scouting (although they have a big one-up over TFC and RSL in their expansion year because of having their scouts already in place from their USL side).

Seattle got a DP-quality player without needing to use a DP slot.

I compare Montero to JP Angel. Angel tore up the league at first, until teams figured out how to neutralize him.

A similar situation happened in the EPL when Hull was promoted. The team went on a tear until teams realized how to neutralize their attack. They were near the top of the table, now they might end up being relegated.

Similar situation happened with Montreal in the CCL. Eventually the Mexicans figured out how to take them out.

You can't judge a team by early results. I personally think that Seattle's depth is rather thin, and their attack a little one-dimensional. If Carver can figure out how to neutralize their attack (and the second half of the RSL-Seattle match gave a hint of that) then Toronto can pick up 1 or 3 points.

I would tend to place a bruiser (Harmse/Serioux) against Montero and push an attacking game to keep the ball in their end. Their defense hasn't been tested enough, and may yield to a strong DeRo/Guevara push. Beware of their counter-attack, which is fast. Expect a high-scoring game.

Football is a game of opinions, and I respect the various ones shared on this board, but you have to look a little below the surface to see what is really going on.

ua-kozak_TFC
03-31-2009, 08:03 AM
Montero was a gift to Seattle, and is responsible for most of their success so far. FWIW, he was scouted by the league, and Seattle got him because of their place in the allocation table. It has nothing to do with their scouting (although they have a big one-up over TFC and RSL in their expansion year because of having their scouts already in place from their USL side).

Seattle got a DP-quality player without needing to use a DP slot.

I compare Montero to JP Angel. Angel tore up the league at first, until teams figured out how to neutralize him.

A similar situation happened in the EPL when Hull was promoted. The team went on a tear until teams realized how to neutralize their attack. They were near the top of the table, now they might end up being relegated.

Similar situation happened with Montreal in the CCL. Eventually the Mexicans figured out how to take them out.

You can't judge a team by early results. I personally think that Seattle's depth is rather thin, and their attack a little one-dimensional. If Carver can figure out how to neutralize their attack (and the second half of the RSL-Seattle match gave a hint of that) then Toronto can pick up 1 or 3 points.

I would tend to place a bruiser (Harmse/Serioux) against Montero and push an attacking game to keep the ball in their end. Their defense hasn't been tested enough, and may yield to a strong DeRo/Guevara push. Beware of their counter-attack, which is fast. Expect a high-scoring game.

Football is a game of opinions, and I respect the various ones shared on this board, but you have to look a little below the surface to see what is really going on.
Montreal went out due to their mental break down... and not because teams eventually figuered out how to cancel them out ... They were on top for most of the game even in mexico...so i dont; think mexico figuered out how to cancel them out they just capitallized on Montreal's loss of focus in the last minutes of the match.

Just to clarify.
i am not saying that seatle will win ALL the games and will be untouchables for the whole season. We might even humiliate them next saturday because because they won;t be used to the abuse by the crowd..
What i am saying is that but i have no doubt that they will go far this season.... unless something major and unexpected happens. And like half the squad is injured ...
Their squad is solid...

Oldtimer
03-31-2009, 08:28 AM
I'll wait and see. I'm not ready to declare them a force.

After 5-6 games, we'll have a better idea how good Seattle is. At that point we'll know how much of an advantage it is to be a promoted USL side versus a from-scratch start-up.

ua-kozak_TFC
03-31-2009, 08:49 AM
I'll wait and see. I'm not ready to declare them a force.

After 5-6 games, we'll have a better idea how good Seattle is. At that point we'll know how much of an advantage it is to be a promoted USL side versus a from-scratch start-up.

That they had an advantage is obvious... to expect this from TFC on the first expansion year would be expecting too much... yet we are in 3rd year... If they do a better campain than us this year Wouldn't you think that perhaps TFC could be doing a better job at puttign a squad together... Time will tell and i hope i am wrong for the good of TFC...

Yohan
03-31-2009, 08:55 AM
That they had an advantage is obvious... to expect this from TFC on the first expansion year would be expecting too much... yet we are in 3rd year... If they do a better campain than us this year Wouldn't you think that perhaps TFC could be doing a better job at puttign a squad together... Time will tell and i hope i am wrong for the good of TFC...
you make it sound like putting together a squad in MLS is as easy as 2+2

Pachuco
03-31-2009, 12:15 PM
Seattle has been building up to join MLS ever since they were announced to be a team.

Hence why in their finals years they stocked up on talents like Le Toux, Nyassi, Scott, Alonso.

SEATTLE IS NOT A BRAND NEW TEAM LIKE TFC WAS!

Honestly I don't buy this argument. And most of what you say isn't true.

1. First of all, they have a new coach and basically a brand new starting 11. I think it's only Le Toux and Scott that have played so far that came from the USL team.
2. Le Toux was signed like 8 months before the Seattle MLS franchise was announced so it's really hard to say they were stocking up on talent for MLS when they didn't even know they were going to have a team in the MLS.
3. Scott was with the Sounders since 2002 so enough said there
4. Nyassi and Alonso were signed FOR the MLS franchise, nothing to do with the USL team. That's no different then us signing Reda and Braz for the TFC franchise. Oh wait, there's a difference ;) (in quality).
5. At the end of the day, it's a bunch of players from all over the place coming together to make a team. I will concede that having a scouting system in place is an advantage, however, it's not what you are trying to paint here. Do you think Ljunberg or Nyassi or anyone else for that matter signed with Seattle because they knew all about the USL team?
6. Did I forget to mention they have a hell of a minority owner who knows how to build a soccer franchise?

ExiledRed
03-31-2009, 12:47 PM
You know, you're right... and I'm really impressed with how Hull City is in 3rd place in the Premiership this year,,, :rolleyes: oh wait! It changed during the year?

This is poor.

Hull's first game: a scrappy 2-1 win over Fulham. Hardly the 3-0 execution Seattle performed on the shite.

The second game: a 1-1 draw to Blackburn, followed by a defeat to Swansea in the carling.

The third game: was a 5-0 Defeat to Wigan.

How are you comparing the two situations? Hull came into the premiership as a side that has been around for donkeys years and existed in the top flight many times. They began the season looking like a newly promoted side and are now in 13th place. They made third for a while, but nobody thought they could finish the season like that, least of all them.

Yohan
03-31-2009, 12:49 PM
Honestly I don't buy this argument. And most of what you say isn't true.

1. First of all, they have a new coach and basically a brand new starting 11. I think it's only Le Toux and Scott that have played so far that came from the USL team.
http://www.soundersfc.com/Team/Roster.aspx

Current Sounders squad that came from their USL squad
-Eylander, Graham, Le Toux, Levesque, Nyassi, Scott

Of those 6, 3 have seen first team action (Le Toux, Scott, Nyassi). The rest are currently depth players


2. Le Toux was signed like 8 months before the Seattle MLS franchise was announced so it's really hard to say they were stocking up on talent for MLS when they didn't even know they were going to have a team in the MLS.
I'll buy that for two cents. Maybe Le Toux was signed because they wanted to have a competitive team?
To me, it seems like Seattle GM did some homework getting a lot of talents, or spotting them to be signed at later date.


5. At the end of the day, it's a bunch of players from all over the place coming together to make a team. I will concede that having a scouting system in place is an advantage, however, it's not what you are trying to paint here. Do you think Ljunberg or Nyassi or anyone else for that matter signed with Seattle because they knew all about the USL team?
-I honestly dont know exactly what goes through Nyassi or Ljungberg's mind when they signed for Seattle.
-Again, Yank expansion team (and I use the term a bit loosely in this game) have an advantage when it comes to signing players due to domestic player rule.

Actually, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get at. (or my English is failing me again lol)


6. Did I forget to mention they have a hell of a minority owner who knows how to build a soccer franchise?
-You mean Drew Carey? Do you know exactly how much input he has in day to day operation, incl signing players? Isn't that a GM's job?

TorontoBlades
03-31-2009, 12:51 PM
Just saw your avatar Exiled. Have you ever made the trip to Hillsborough to the monument. A very sad place....the football side that plays there is sad as well, but for a different reason :)

ExiledRed
03-31-2009, 01:00 PM
Just saw your avatar Exiled. Have you ever made the trip to Hillsborough to the monument. A very sad place....the football side that plays there is sad as well, but for a different reason :)

No, I haven't been to Hillsborough since before the disaster. I was there about a year before when we beat Wednesday 5-1.

For me the stadium's name has become synonomous with the disaster and I feel bad for the Wednesday supporters having to live with that.

I'll change the avatar at the end of the month probably.

ensco
03-31-2009, 01:30 PM
Seattle are good. They may finish above us. For me it's 50/50 whether they're a top 4 club or not.

I'm rooting for them (not against TFC of course!)....

because they don't have a corporate owner, which is the death of sports in general, and has mostly been a real negative here in Toronto.

(Spare me the inevitable ingratitude post - I'm grateful to the taxpayers, who put up 80%+ of the combined cost of the stadium and team)

Pachuco
03-31-2009, 01:46 PM
http://www.soundersfc.com/Team/Roster.aspx

Current Sounders squad that came from their USL squad
-Eylander, Graham, Le Toux, Levesque, Nyassi, Scott

Of those 6, 3 have seen first team action (Le Toux, Scott, Nyassi). The rest are currently depth players

I'll buy that for two cents. Maybe Le Toux was signed because they wanted to have a competitive team?
To me, it seems like Seattle GM did some homework getting a lot of talents, or spotting them to be signed at later date.

-I honestly dont know exactly what goes through Nyassi or Ljungberg's mind when they signed for Seattle.
-Again, Yank expansion team (and I use the term a bit loosely in this game) have an advantage when it comes to signing players due to domestic player rule.

Actually, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get at. (or my English is failing me again lol)

-You mean Drew Carey? Do you know exactly how much input he has in day to day operation, incl signing players? Isn't that a GM's job?

1. Nyassi was signed by Sounders FC, not the USL team. He was then loaned out to the USL team since the MLS season hadn't started. Again, no different the TFC having the ability to sign a player before their MLS season started.

2. There is much more that goes into a soccer team then just getting 11 players on the field. The GM has had a big role to play, so has Drew Carey, they have different roles to perform. That's all I was saying about Drew.

3. All I am trying to get at is that most of the team is new and they are quite succesfull already. They obviously just did a much better job of forming a team then we ever did, that's all. People attribute that to them having a USL team, I attribute that to owners and management who know how to form a team. They deserve credit for what they've put together.

brad
03-31-2009, 02:11 PM
.
Their squad is solid...

There starting 11 is solid. Who do they have to go to when a couple of players are out?

ensco
03-31-2009, 03:09 PM
Anyone know why Montero wasn't even called up by the Coffee Makers for their WCQ games? Seems odd to me.

Blizzard
03-31-2009, 03:45 PM
No, I haven't been to Hillsborough since before the disaster. I was there about a year before when we beat Wednesday 5-1.

For me the stadium's name has become synonomous with the disaster and I feel bad for the Wednesday supporters having to live with that.

I'll change the avatar at the end of the month probably.

A good friend of mine, a Liverpool supporter, was at the disaster. He was located in the same stand, in the balcony behind the police-caused over crowded section.

He was helping pull people up out of that section to safety.

jloome
03-31-2009, 04:34 PM
Montero was a gift to Seattle, and is responsible for most of their success so far. FWIW, he was scouted by the league, and Seattle got him because of their place in the allocation table. It has nothing to do with their scouting (although they have a big one-up over TFC and RSL in their expansion year because of having their scouts already in place from their USL side).

Seattle got a DP-quality player without needing to use a DP slot.

I compare Montero to JP Angel. Angel tore up the league at first, until teams figured out how to neutralize him.

A similar situation happened in the EPL when Hull was promoted. The team went on a tear until teams realized how to neutralize their attack. They were near the top of the table, now they might end up being relegated.

Similar situation happened with Montreal in the CCL. Eventually the Mexicans figured out how to take them out.

You can't judge a team by early results. I personally think that Seattle's depth is rather thin, and their attack a little one-dimensional. If Carver can figure out how to neutralize their attack (and the second half of the RSL-Seattle match gave a hint of that) then Toronto can pick up 1 or 3 points.

I would tend to place a bruiser (Harmse/Serioux) against Montero and push an attacking game to keep the ball in their end. Their defense hasn't been tested enough, and may yield to a strong DeRo/Guevara push. Beware of their counter-attack, which is fast. Expect a high-scoring game.

Football is a game of opinions, and I respect the various ones shared on this board, but you have to look a little below the surface to see what is really going on.

Best post on Montero so far, except this part:
"I would tend to place a bruiser (Harmse/Serioux) against Montero..."

Montero would turn Harmse like a chicken on a spit. Serioux might -- might -- be able to mark him, but we need him in central defense, and we're a zonal team.

If we're going to try and man-mark him out of the game, it has to be a mid, which means it has to be Robinson (who is also the only guy we have pretty much guaranteed to be good enough to stay with him.)

Montero's danger isn't just his finishing; it's his lateral movement. He's very good at spotting lanes to move into that defenders won't be able to cover in time, giving him room to shape a shot. Harmse got absolutely ripped apart by Dane Richards' combo of speed and movement last year, and Richards isn't a patch on Montero.

"THE PAGE"
03-31-2009, 04:53 PM
i think their overhyped with being the new kid on the block and winning thier home opener. They will be overwhelmed in their 1st road game at BMO (toughest place in MLS to play) and then they may fall apart as the honeymoon ends. cmon its an expansion team! they will be lke Hull city's decline

gtaguy
03-31-2009, 05:20 PM
Anyone know why Montero wasn't even called up by the Coffee Makers for their WCQ games? Seems odd to me.


so far what i gathered was that the colombian wc squad had decent forwards and thereby allow montero time to adjust to his new group and surroundings. rest assured that he could be called up for the next round of qualifiers..

As for the comments about seattle not having experience in our fortress don't get me wrong when i say from fact that a few of these players have already played in quite a few hostile places so i don't buy this as a reason for them to fail. Keller has been around the block , lundberg also seen some crazy stadiums, and montero and hurtado have played in some really messed up stadiums in colombia. I know i have visited some stadiums in colombia and its not a pretty site during matches.
Also take note that sigi is not no middle of the class head coach he knows what to expect when he comes into bmo field and im sure hes prepping his club to expect the worst.. I hope they fail and that our defense holds them off although i fear a very ruff game is in store full of yellow and red cards..

last but not least what i have seen of seattle this season is that they are quick in thier movement of the ball.. they see a pass that can be done they do it.. I see toronto and they all want to run the extra step to better position themselves to pass..

Oldtimer
03-31-2009, 06:25 PM
Honestly I don't buy this argument. And most of what you say isn't true.

1. First of all, they have a new coach and basically a brand new starting 11. I think it's only Le Toux and Scott that have played so far that came from the USL team.

Their situation is no different than a team in a league with promotion/relegation that gets promoted. Of course you add talent (if you want to stay up) and upgrade the coach if need be. But make no mistake about it, you are not a new side. Here's what you've got:

(1) Established coaching networks. RSL & TFC had no scouting networks (unless you count Mo's agent for TFC).

(2) Established staff and facilities for physio, fitness training,etc. Remember how in year 1 we didn't have Paul Winsper, and several of our starting 11 were out? And don't get me started on Mo doubling as coach and GM.

(3) Some key players who know the ropes and have played in the city to integrate new players and make them feel at home. This builds chemistry quickly, and is a huge advantage.

(4) Club history to motivate the players and help attract new ones. A lot of players when offered a chance to play for TFC in year 1 turned it down flat (as in "WHO wants me to play for them?). It's only now that we can attract better players. A club history makes players want to honour the badge, like the players who played before.

Being a fan of latin football, I know you appreciate these things.


2. Le Toux was signed like 8 months before the Seattle MLS franchise was announced so it's really hard to say they were stocking up on talent for MLS when they didn't even know they were going to have a team in the MLS. They had a good idea and were willing to take the risk. I doubt you followed the USL-1 like I did. Players like Le Toux are not overly common in USL-1.


3. Scott was with the Sounders since 2002 so enough said there Doesn't prove the "stocking up" theory, but absolutely proves that there is an advantage in being promoted rather than being from scratch.


4. Nyassi and Alonso were signed FOR the MLS franchise, nothing to do with the USL team. That's no different then us signing Reda and Braz for the TFC franchise. Oh wait, there's a difference ;) (in quality).Proves the huge advantage of having an established scouting network.

If you're going to mention Reda and Braz, I'll have to mention that the excessive Canadian content rules in year 1 made the whole first year wasted as many of those Canadians were not MLS quality. The team we know now was only really started in year 2. Not Mo's fault at all, it's the CSA's and the league's (both of whom insisted on a high quota).




6. Did I forget to mention they have a hell of a minority owner who knows how to build a soccer franchise?I'll give you that one. Gotta love Drew as a football club owner. Beats many of the suits at MLSE any day.

Oldtimer
03-31-2009, 06:28 PM
Best post on Montero so far, except this part:
"I would tend to place a bruiser (Harmse/Serioux) against Montero..."

Montero would turn Harmse like a chicken on a spit. Serioux might -- might -- be able to mark him, but we need him in central defense, and we're a zonal team.

If we're going to try and man-mark him out of the game, it has to be a mid, which means it has to be Robinson You're probably right about Harmse. I observed, however, that Montero was cowed when physically challenged in the second half of the RSL game. So maybe Serioux would be better. Of course, hopefully Robbo will stop him before he get's to testing our shaky defenses.

RedTFC
04-02-2009, 02:36 PM
Come on now the y will wilt under the pressure and atmosphere of BMO. No chance for them, TFC undefeated after three, i say!