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James Oliphant
03-22-2009, 01:03 AM
This is an idea I've been mulling over for a while now, and the longer I mull, the bigger the project gets.

What's the goal? For the Toronto FC Wiki to become THE place to go for historical data on Toronto FC.

Imagine every player ever on the Toronto FC roster categorized by what years they played, how many goals they scored, and which club they went to after TFC (if any).

Imagine every goal recorded and categorized such that if you wanted, you could see how many goals TFC have scored in the 89th minute in their history.

Imagine having every result in TFC's history at hand and easily searchable by competition, date, or opponent.

That's the goal. I want the Toronto FC Wiki to be the most comprehensive databank for TFC history.

Of course, this project is a pretty large undertaking, so I'll need some serious help.

What I need, first of all, are a few people who are familiar with MediaWiki (the platform used by Wikipedia) so we can set some standards for pages and categories. After we've come up with those standards, we'll open things up to a larger group of people so we can get the massive amounts of data entered into the system.

I'd like to get started on this as soon as possible, so if there's anyone out there who's familiar with Wikipedia or other sites using the MediaWiki software, please contact me in this thread, by PM, or by email at:
james@gotorontofc.com

Thanks in advance!

Terry
03-22-2009, 01:20 AM
I'm not sure about setting up pages and stuff, but I'd be willing to help with information.

dantdot
03-22-2009, 01:30 AM
I've revamped the TFC article recently, including merging the footnotes into references, god, that was a bitch but I'm not familiar with making wikis themselves. There is also a lot of this stuff on Wikipedia already, detailed records for the 07 and 08 seasons but I can help out if needed.

Jack
03-22-2009, 08:50 AM
James, check in with The Professor here on this site.

He's a historian, I believe, and I think he might be interested in something like this.

rocker
03-22-2009, 09:01 AM
there are pages for TFC seasons on Wikipedia.. I find them hard to find off the main page though. But they have added details.

Shakes McQueen
03-22-2009, 09:03 AM
I'm not "opposed" to this idea, but I'd personally just prefer to see our Wikipedia entries expanded, including entries for all of the players.

- Scott

Jack
03-22-2009, 09:05 AM
I'm not "opposed" to this idea, but I'd personally just prefer to see our Wikipedia entries expanded, including entries for all of the players.

- Scott
I don't see any reason why we can't do both, Scott.

I don't think Wikipedia would let us go as in-depth as James is intending here.

Shakes McQueen
03-22-2009, 09:15 AM
I don't see any reason why we can't do both, Scott.

I don't think Wikipedia would let us go as in-depth as James is intending here.

Of course - I don't think there's nothing wrong with the idea, or anything like that.

Wikipedia typically actually prefers expanded articles, to short stubs. Their one big problem, are the content moderators that police it, and their subjective (and often ridiculous) definitions of what is an acceptable entry to the database.

As an example, the recent kerfuffle in which Sam Cronin's entry was removed because he had yet to play an MLS game, despite the fact that he was a 1st round MLS draft pick.

- Scott

FCBarcelona
03-22-2009, 09:26 AM
This is an idea I've been mulling over for a while now, and the longer I mull, the bigger the project gets.

What's the goal? For the Toronto FC Wiki to become THE place to go for historical data on Toronto FC.

Imagine every player ever on the Toronto FC roster categorized by what years they played, how many goals they scored, and which club they went to after TFC (if any).

Imagine every goal recorded and categorized such that if you wanted, you could see how many goals TFC have scored in the 89th minute in their history.

Imagine having every result in TFC's history at hand and easily searchable by competition, date, or opponent.

That's the goal. I want the Toronto FC Wiki to be the most comprehensive databank for TFC history.

Of course, this project is a pretty large undertaking, so I'll need some serious help.

What I need, first of all, are a few people who are familiar with MediaWiki (the platform used by Wikipedia) so we can set some standards for pages and categories. After we've come up with those standards, we'll open things up to a larger group of people so we can get the massive amounts of data entered into the system.

I'd like to get started on this as soon as possible, so if there's anyone out there who's familiar with Wikipedia or other sites using the MediaWiki software, please contact me in this thread, by PM, or by email at:
james@gotorontofc.com

Thanks in advance!
======
wow yoor creatin a monster here :)

but good luck

Don Julio
03-22-2009, 01:42 PM
This is a pretty good idea, and just in time that it's not an impossible task to go back and fill in the historical data.

I personally know almost nothing about Wiki, but most of the people I've seen learn and use it at work are hardly clever, so I think we could just hit the ground running. What we really need is, as you said, a proper flow to the content to make it easily usable and searchable. The first step is to identify what kinds of things people would be using it to look up. What questions will they ask?

James Oliphant
03-22-2009, 02:13 PM
I don't see any reason why we can't do both, Scott.

I don't think Wikipedia would let us go as in-depth as James is intending here.

Indeed...the idea here is to create a database that would be worthy of a sports statistician, where you can easily find the most minute details. Games won with a goal in the last 5 minutes, for example.

And from what I can tell, that's do-able with MediaWiki's software.


This is a pretty good idea, and just in time that it's not an impossible task to go back and fill in the historical data.

I personally know almost nothing about Wiki, but most of the people I've seen learn and use it at work are hardly clever, so I think we could just hit the ground running. What we really need is, as you said, a proper flow to the content to make it easily usable and searchable. The first step is to identify what kinds of things people would be using it to look up. What questions will they ask?

The key seems to be categorization. How deep do we go?

For player pages, I'd like to get down to the level where we categorize by each club the player has played for (and plays for after TFC), as well as milestones for goals (5, 10, 20 in a season, 50 career), assists, sending-offs...that sort of thing.

As for results pages, categorization by competition (MLS, Canadian Championship, Club World Cup... ;)), month the game was played in, holiday weekend games, margin of victory/loss (games won by two goals, for example), night games, afternoon games...really getting down to the fine details.

mlsintoronto
03-22-2009, 02:24 PM
wow - this is a pretty major undertaking...not bad given they began with the drunken ramblings of a TFC supporter in a post-win haze....

James Oliphant
03-22-2009, 02:37 PM
^
I am having second thoughts... ;)


(no I'm not)

Red CB Toronto
03-22-2009, 02:46 PM
I would make a seperate TFC history website, have linked off here or GoTorontoFC, I think a site with every box score, game ,player etc listed in detail would be great. Having worked in sports pr I know what it takes to bring in a whole bunch of info together from several different sources and make it into one. It can be time consuming but a lot of fun, would love to help out in any way.

Ron Manager
03-22-2009, 03:36 PM
I really like the sound of this, but it would have to be a huge team effort. I would be willing to help.

James Oliphant
03-22-2009, 03:43 PM
Thanks to everyone who's offered help so far. I've made contact with a couple folks who have a working knowledge of the software itself, which I installed on the GoTFC server last night.

Now, it's a matter of getting it set up such that we have all the resources we need to put what we want on it.

So let's talk about that....from a data standpoint, what does everyone want to see on there? Are we all interested in the level of detail I mentioned in earlier posts?

Ideas, please. :)

MrHawk
03-22-2009, 04:11 PM
I've designed (errrr written) some Wiki code before, so I can definitely help out.

phonzo
03-22-2009, 05:56 PM
I have OCD when it comes to formatting and making sure things are consistent..it's extremely annoying :). I've worked on creating IT standards before so I don't mind helping out with any process development, standardization, design documentation that has to be done...I can contribute some technical knowledge to if needed though I've never worked with wiki's but psh how hard can it be with google at your fingertips :)

Canadian Blue
03-22-2009, 08:42 PM
this sounds like a project that shouldn't be wated on wikipedia....maybe TFC would be interested on addin to their site or we could add it to the RPB site

phonzo
03-22-2009, 09:38 PM
this sounds like a project that shouldn't be wated on wikipedia....maybe TFC would be interested on addin to their site or we could add it to the RPB site

I think the idea is to use the technology that powers wikipedia rather then update wikipedia itself. Though both can easily be done :)

James Oliphant
03-22-2009, 11:29 PM
Wikipedia won't allow for the kind of depth I'm looking to get. That's why I've installed MediaWiki on the GoTFC server...so we can set up the Toronto FC Wiki there.

CBlake and phonzo, I"ll be sending you a PM soon. Thanks guys. :)

James Oliphant
03-23-2009, 02:14 AM
Over the next couple of days, I'll be creating a couple of VERY basic pages for us to get working on.

The first will be a complete list of players who were or are playing for TFC - including those who never played a game for us (the Will Hesmer list, which was until last month known as the Adrian Serioux list). If they were ever property of Toronto FC with a valid MLS contract, they go on the list. Names only on this page...we'll build separate, fully-detailed pages for each player after the templates are built.

The second will be a rundown of the results from all the meaningful games TFC have played thus far (i.e. MLS and CCL fixtures...we can add the smaller stuff later). Date, teams and scores only on this one. Again, we'll build full-on pages for each of these games later.

These two pages will act as a kind of launching pad for the rest of the information, and will give us some idea of what's been worked on and what still needs to be built as we go along with getting the Wiki ready for a full launch.

Those who have volunteered to help, please start thinking about these two pages. Maybe compile some lists of your own which you can then copy to the wiki.

The results will be easy to find. Shameless plug, I know, but GoTFC has become a pretty decent resource for all that stuff, as we've kept the box score links in our schedule/fixture pages. The official site only keeps the recap links.

The player info might get a bit trickier as we get down to the more obscure names...the ones on the Hesmer List, for example. I think with a combined effort from 10-15 people building the list, we should do well.

The only games where we need box scores are the away games against Montreal and Vancouver...reason being that MLSnet was not involved in those game. I'd imagine it has something to do with those games not being played in MLS grounds. If anyone can find those, that'd be a huge help.

Cheers, and I'll be contacting the volunteers soon with the initial pages.

Edit: Almost forgot...if you're still interested in volunteering, by all means...we'll take the help! :)

phonzo
03-23-2009, 12:07 PM
Sounds good James,

I'll try to whip some stuff together and perhaps some sample articles from other wiki's (lostpedia is always well structured there are a few others).

James Oliphant
03-23-2009, 05:38 PM
PM sent to the data entry volunteers.

James Oliphant
03-25-2009, 04:14 AM
Just a quick update...

We're starting to make headway on the hierarchy of pages as well as their layouts. Things are looking very promising on this rather daunting task. Big thanks to everyone involved for really throwing themselves into it. Some great ideas have emerged from early discussions.

And again, we could always use more help, especially when it comes to formatting/templating of pages.

TFC John
03-25-2009, 05:08 AM
Before this project gets too far down the road, can I request that you also track the officials that have refereed TFC games, if that is possible. I foresee this wiki will be a place were fans go to gain information to support or disprove all kinds of trivial arguments on the interwebs. Since so many of us complain about the quality of officiating in MLS it would be good to have some actual facts to refer to.

For instance, which referee has given the team the most cards? Which linesman has called the most offsides against the team? How many goals have been called back and why? These are questions that need answers in the minds of nit-pickers like myself.

Although I cannot offer any valuable help, I do promiss to examine your work closely and to draw erroneous conclusions from it.

James Oliphant
03-25-2009, 05:51 AM
Before this project gets too far down the road, can I request that you also track the officials that have refereed TFC games, if that is possible. I foresee this wiki will be a place were fans go to gain information to support or disprove all kinds of trivial arguments on the interwebs. Since so many of us complain about the quality of officiating in MLS it would be good to have some actual facts to refer to.

For instance, which referee has given the team the most cards? Which linesman has called the most offsides against the team? How many goals have been called back and why? These are questions that need answers in the minds of nit-pickers like myself.

Although I cannot offer any valuable help, I do promiss to examine your work closely and to draw erroneous conclusions from it.

With any luck, all that information will end up in the wiki pages, John. The officials are listed in the box scores, and we have all but a couple of those (Canadian Championship away games) archived. It's just a matter of deciding how deeply we want to delve into that information.

While we probably won't go as far as creating individual pages for referees (at least not initially), we'll try to find a way to categorize games by the referees who oversaw them. That'll give you the ability to compile your own such statistics.

CoachGT
03-25-2009, 06:49 AM
This may also be a place to archive the photos of scarves by all of the supporters groups.

Mark in Ottawa
03-25-2009, 07:36 AM
This may also be a place to archive the photos of scarves by all of the supporters groups.
And maybe a banner archive of past efforts.

James Oliphant
03-25-2009, 07:59 AM
Both good thoughts, but for now we're concentrating on the players and results. Once we get those up and running to everyone's satisfaction, we'll start looking at other applications for it. :)

drewski
03-25-2009, 08:08 AM
i've done a tiny bit of work editing/creating wiki pages and i'd like to learn more so I'd be down for helping. I can also help collect & sort data, like box scores, refs, etc