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View Full Version : Ryan Macleod (TFC Academy) Plays for T&T



DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 08:41 PM
http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090316&content_id=226285&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

I'm really starting to believe that TFC will only elevate the CMNT through marketing and that's it. This really offends me as a supporter

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 08:55 PM
How so man we still have a few kids on our own U-17 team

Pachuco
03-16-2009, 08:57 PM
I'm confused. The article suggests he's from Trinidad. What's the problem?

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 08:59 PM
We should be developing players for Canada not T&T. Would you be okay with us developing Jamaican and Trini players and having the rest Canadian? This isn't a stepping stone for every immigrant in Toronto to go play for their country of heritage

Shakes McQueen
03-16-2009, 08:59 PM
Yeah, I'm confused as to what the problem is as well.

If anything, this is great for TFC's Academy - one of it's members got selected for a national team.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
03-16-2009, 09:01 PM
We should be developing players for Canada not T&T. Would you be okay with us developing Jamaican and Trini players and having the rest Canadian? This isn't a stepping stone for every immigrant in Toronto to go play for their country of heritage

You seem to have misunderstood the point of a club academy. The idea is to groom players for Toronto FC, not the CMNT.

This kid is playing for his country, in addition to being an academy member with us. I still don't get what the problem is.

- Scott

Pachuco
03-16-2009, 09:01 PM
We should be developing players for Canada not T&T. Would you be okay with us developing Jamaican and Trini players and having the rest Canadian? This isn't a stepping stone for every immigrant in Toronto to go play for their country of heritage

WHAT? Last time I checked the name of the Academy was TFC Academy. NOT Canada Academy. Dude, we are developing players for Toronto FC, that's all that matters here. If Canada benefits then great, but that is not the role of TFC Academy.

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 09:03 PM
He's Canadian with Trini roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFC_Academy

I think they're two in the same. What's lacking every time we go to the draft? Good young Canadian players. So we should be developing those. There are roster restrictions in this league that would benefit by developing our own. Ryan Macleod would count as a Canadian because he's a Canadian. I do care about the state of football in Canada and want to progress. TFC is part of that and has a responsibility to develop players for Canada

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:05 PM
True there are so many examples of this from all over the world even a ton of CMNT players did this overseas: David Edgar, Asmir Begovic, Simeon Jackson, even the best Canadian Player JDG

Ron Manager
03-16-2009, 09:05 PM
I fail to see a problem. I don't really care what country he plays for, so long as the Academy is producing good players for TFC. Canadian content is a fringe benefit.

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:06 PM
He's Canadian with Trini roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFC_Academy
Do you know that for sure because the wiki article is very unreliable for this sort of thing?

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:09 PM
PS we've still got players like Ashtone Morgan, Garrett Cyprus, Jonathon Lao, Brennan McNicholl, and Allando Matheson, point being: buck up there, sport

Shakes McQueen
03-16-2009, 09:11 PM
He's Canadian with Trini roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFC_Academy

You got that from a little flag next to his name in Wikipedia?

It says he's been called up by T&T twice in the past, meaning even if you're right, he wouldn't have the option to play for Canada.

We also have no idea if Canada ever even asked him to play in the first place.

The point of TFC Academy is to train players for TFC, not to advertise or supply players to the CMNT. That's their responsibility.

This is a great thing for TFC.

- Scott

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 09:11 PM
You know what, I'm wrong. I get really pissed over people selecting other countries over Canada. Its a sore point with me. The role of TFC is to win games. Thats all. It has no responsibility to Canada. All it is a place to organization that provides winning football. It has nothing to do with Canada.

Who knows...Allando Matheson might be plucked by Jamaica, like they're doing with Hoillet

rocker
03-16-2009, 09:11 PM
the fact that McLeod is playing for trini does not mean TFC is not producing Canadian players. He's just 1 guy on a team packed to the max with Canadians. TFC recently had 3 canadians on one of the teen national teams.

If the point is that TFC Academy should not allow non-canadians to play then that's another question altogether. I think you go for the best players who want to be with TFC Academy, regardless of nationality, or whether or not mom and dad have citizenship of another country.

Pachuco
03-16-2009, 09:12 PM
He's Canadian with Trini roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFC_Academy

I think they're two in the same. What's lacking every time we go to the draft? Good young Canadian players. So we should be developing those. There are roster restrictions in this league that would benefit by developing our own. Ryan Macleod would count as a Canadian because he's a Canadian. I do care about the state of football in Canada and want to progress. TFC is part of that and has a responsibility to develop players for Canada

You're argument is suggesting we should only be developing Canadian players in the Academy. Do you really want to put this club at a complete handicap? The big clubs in the world have no problem bringing 12 year olds from other countries to develop them. So I don't see why we should. This isn't the Canadian Soccer Association's Academy, they are not one in the same.

Fine that you want Canadian Soccer to grow, and it's a benefit to have an Academy in Toronto, but at the end of the day, why should MLSE be investing in kids for the Canadian national team? it just makes no sense.

Shakes McQueen
03-16-2009, 09:13 PM
You're argument is suggesting we should only be developing Canadian players in the Academy. Do you really want to put this club at a complete handicap? The big clubs in the world have no problem bringing 12 year olds from other countries to develop them. So I don't see why we should. This isn't the Canadian Soccer Association's Academy, they are not one in the same.

Fine that you want Canadian Soccer to grow, and it's a benefit to have an Academy in Toronto, but at the end of the day, why should MLSE be investing in kids for the Canadian national team? it just makes no sense.

Pretty much agreed.

- Scott

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 09:20 PM
That I would totally oppose if we brought in players from other countries in to the Academy. At least the MacLeod is Canadian. I would totally oppose bringing in players abroad and replacing local guys. Am I the only one with this outlook?

Is club more important the country?

H Bomb
03-16-2009, 09:21 PM
^^ that's like asking which kid you love more. TFC owes nothing to CMNT, and vice versa. TFC academy should attract the best, regardless of origin, or any other archaic nationalistic viewpoint.

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 09:23 PM
Sorry, did you just call my patriotism an archaic nationalistic viewpoint. I want to be clear on this. I don't mind people opposing my views and opinions but I do take offense when you start in with these comments

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:25 PM
I'm not too sure we should be reading much into this whole Mcleod T&T situation as I'm pretty sure he'd be able to play for Canada its just that he was probably asked by T&T first, but Digz brings up a good point in how Canada has always had a rich tradition of atheletes with choices to make, from Hargreaves to De Guzman to Mark Boswell (High jumper born in the caribean but repping Canada) to of course Donovan Bailey, we seem to be a great place to come for athletes I suppose, my fear is that we don't get too many kids deciding that playing for the CSA is too much of a dead end street and instead play elsewhere.

H Bomb
03-16-2009, 09:26 PM
to add full context. i think that anyone, who thinks anyone deserves anything based on the landmass they were squeezed out on, is wrong.

Pachuco
03-16-2009, 09:26 PM
That I would totally oppose if we brought in players from other countries in to the Academy. At least the MacLeod is Canadian. I would totally oppose bringing in players abroad and replacing local guys. Am I the only one with this outlook?

Is club more important the country?

Ok maybe you'll see it if I pose it this way. TFC in 5 years gets an opportunity to bring in a future south american star. For whatever reason, this 14 year old decides he wants to come to Toronto (parents are moving here and he wants to be close to them). He's highly regarded as the next Leo Messi. Are you telling me you would oppose him coming because he's not Canadian?

This is not about Club before Country. This is the club's investment and therefore it should benefit the club first. The day the CSA decides to invest in a real system then you'll start to see players being developed for Canada.

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:27 PM
^^ that's like asking which kid you love more. TFC owes nothing to CMNT, and vice versa. TFC academy should attract the best, regardless of origin, or any other archaic nationalistic viewpoint.
That post started off great (asking which kid you love more lol) then took a turn:(

Azerban
03-16-2009, 09:27 PM
If he has a Canadian passport, he's Canadian in terms of MLS roster rules, which in the context of it being a TFC academy, is the absolute best you could hope for. I'm sure we'd all love it if maple syrup and Bryan Adams ran through the blood of each of the kids on the team, but it's not going to happen, and it's not the point of the institution. It's to develop players for TFC. Full stop.

Shakes McQueen
03-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Is club more important the country?

To the TFC Academy? Absolutely. And that is what I want from the TFC Academy.

The point of TFC Academy is not for MLSE to spend money doing the CSA/CMNT's job for them. I want our academy to find and groom great players, no matter where we find them. It will always have somewhat of a Canadian bias, by virtue of being in Canada anyway.

- Scott

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:28 PM
BTW I don't mean to be a downer but this is all extremely useless to even think about discussing until the MLS changes it's stupid rules governing the academies

Azerban
03-16-2009, 09:29 PM
also patriotism and nationalism is a tool of the ruling classes, to distract the commoners from real and everyday social injustices with petty tribal conflicts

hurfdeedurf

Shakes McQueen
03-16-2009, 09:29 PM
If he has a Canadian passport, he's Canadian in terms of MLS roster rules, which in the context of it being a TFC academy, is the absolute best you could hope for. I'm sure we'd all love it if maple syrup and Bryan Adams ran through the blood of each of the kids on the team, but it's not going to happen, and it's not the point of the institution. It's to develop players for TFC. Full stop.

Exactly. Artfully said, hahaha. :D

- Scott

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:30 PM
If he has a Canadian passport, he's Canadian in terms of MLS roster rules, which in the context of it being a TFC academy, is the absolute best you could hope for. I'm sure we'd all love it if maple syrup and Bryan Adams ran through the blood of each of the kids on the team, but it's not going to happen, and it's not the point of the institution. It's to develop players for TFC. Full stop.
You can't tell me it's not worth fighting for,
You can't tell me its not worth dying for:canada::D

Pachuco
03-16-2009, 09:31 PM
You can't tell me it's not worth fighting for,
You can't tell me its not worth dying for:canada::D

LOL - that's funny

H Bomb
03-16-2009, 09:31 PM
also patriotism and nationalism is a tool of the ruling classes, to distract the commoners from real and everyday social injustices with petty tribal conflicts

hurfdeedurf


see...this boy knows.....he knows

Azerban
03-16-2009, 09:32 PM
You can't tell me it's not worth fighting for,
You can't tell me its not worth dying for:canada::D

everything i do should be our you'll never walk alone and anyone who says different can jump in the lake

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:33 PM
Didn't realize what a part Bryan Adams played in my genetics until just now, who said you don't learn useful stuff on message boards:canada:

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 09:37 PM
Ok maybe you'll see it if I pose it this way. TFC in 5 years gets an opportunity to bring in a future south american star. For whatever reason, this 14 year old decides he wants to come to Toronto (parents are moving here and he wants to be close to them). He's highly regarded as the next Leo Messi. Are you telling me you would oppose him coming because he's not Canadian?

This is not about Club before Country. This is the club's investment and therefore it should benefit the club first. The day the CSA decides to invest in a real system then you'll start to see players being developed for Canada.

That's a hypothetical situation that really won't exist for the MLS unless it significantly changes its financial model. I'm dealing with the here and now. For instance, the Sanyang guy is playing for our academy until he turns 18. I have no problem with that as he is guaranteed a senior spot. I have a problem with displacing Canadian talent out of the squad because it serves TFC to have Canadian players. Roster restrictions have hampered TFC because there are not a lot of quality affordable Canadians, hence we have Harmse in the lineup (he's improved but...not enough). Also, Canadian players have more loyalty to TFC. DeRo and Serioux were traded to TFC due inpart from players' desire to play for TFC.

As for H-Bomb...your an instigator. Nothing more. If you want to pray on one man's love for his country to start a fight, you won't find a dance partner over the internet.

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 09:40 PM
I for one think the academies of Vancouver and TFC should be allowed special privliges because of the thinner talent pool, for example we should be able to sign unlimited players whenever we want (it will realistically only be a few anyway)

H Bomb
03-16-2009, 09:41 PM
dude...jesus come on....it has nothing to do with "loving your country" I'm a proud Canadian...But I believe in human rights, not human rights for Canadians. And within that I believe every human should be judged on their merits, and their merits only. So if trini footballing kid over here is better than canadian footballing kid over there, then we take the trini.

So consider your country love prayed on?

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 09:43 PM
I think it was the archaic nationalist view point or whatever land mass you were squeezed out on comments...not your view point on the topic.

Azerban
03-16-2009, 09:48 PM
they were valid points

football is a global economy and if you're restricting yourself based on the cool picture on peoples passports you're only handicapping yourself

if the csa wants to set up a canada only academy that's more their domain and completely their choice to do so but i don't see that happening anytime soon

expecting a corporation to fix the national team is unrealistic

H Bomb
03-16-2009, 09:50 PM
ohhhhh, you thought I was trying to be an asshole. I wasn't...just talk like that on the internet. I do think most forms of nationalism are archaic, but I also think being an Aston Villa supporter in next to insanity...

pick your poison really

DigzTFC!
03-16-2009, 09:55 PM
Right then, so if the TFC Academy only produced international (non CMNT) players that were successful in the MLS then the academy would have served its purpose.

I don't expect TFC to fix anything but their defense at the point let alone the national team.

Just out of curiosity if we're going with the business side of things, which do you think will grow the market (TV and merchandise) quicker. A CMNT appearance in the World Cup or TFC winning the MLS championship. While its doesn't guarantee more TFC fans from Canadian support it would probably help.

H-Bomb I do appreciate the clarification

H Bomb
03-16-2009, 10:01 PM
Well in this case the TFC academy would mean many naturalized prospects that would count as domestic under the MLS system. Meaning that while not helping the CMNT it would help TFC become stronger overall and win that Championship

Rudi
03-16-2009, 10:02 PM
Even the Whitecaps Academy, the same program that many on the Voyageurs board slobber over, has players from other nations within theirt ranks. I believe they have a current Jamaican U-20 international, plus a handful of players from other countries.

But the lion's share of the players will always be from the BC area, because of obvious reasons. The same would be true of TFC's academy.

Isn't the point of an academy to expose the kids to the highest level of training possible? Wouldn't that include having the best possible teammates to train with and against, day in and day out?

A good club academy will develop national team players for its country as a side effect of the main goal, which is to improve the club overall.

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 10:02 PM
You guys are waaaaay to polarized on this, there's a possibility for there to be a healthy balance of Canucks to foreigners, which at the moment is definitely leaning toward the Canucks side, this is the way Football works, Man U's academy I'm sure has a much higher foreigners to Domestic rate than we do, and those foreign players are every bit as important to the domestics who are in the academy, because they make the overall level better and push each other (including the domestics) to be better players, which will ultimately end up helping both TFC and the CMNT immensely.
PS Vancouver is the best academy in Canada and they still have quite a few foreigners (you bugger Rudi you beat me too it, it being every damn thing I said!:D)

Rudi
03-16-2009, 10:05 PM
(you bugger Rudi you beat me too it, it being every damn thing I said!:D)
LOL!

Great minds...

TFC07
03-16-2009, 10:06 PM
So what? He is playing for T&T's U-17. I believe there are 6 TFC kids playing for Canada's U-17. I am guessing that Macleod wasn't good enough for Canadian U-17 team so he decided to play for T&T's U-17 team.

T_Mizz
03-16-2009, 10:08 PM
So what? He is playing for T&T's U-17. I believe there are 6 TFC kids playing for Canada's U-17. I am guessing that Macleod wasn't good enough for Canadian U-17 team so he decided to play for T&T's U-17 team.
My thoughts exactly, we've got that entire list I made on the first page of this thread and probably more

Mark in Ottawa
03-17-2009, 06:38 AM
I do care about the state of football in Canada and want to progress. TFC is part of that and has a responsibility to develop players for Canada

Wrong! TFC is a professional football club who have a responsibility to develop players for the club. Full stop!

If it happens that they can attract good Canadian talent and help them develop all the better but they have no resposibility to the canadian national team. That is the CSA's job. One they have been failing at for years.

Oldtimer
03-17-2009, 07:14 AM
Even the Whitecaps Academy, the same program that many on the Voyageurs board slobber over, has players from other nations within theirt ranks. I believe they have a current Jamaican U-20 international, plus a handful of players from other countries.

But the lion's share of the players will always be from the BC area, because of obvious reasons. The same would be true of TFC's academy.

Isn't the point of an academy to expose the kids to the highest level of training possible? Wouldn't that include having the best possible teammates to train with and against, day in and day out?

A good club academy will develop national team players for its country as a side effect of the main goal, which is to improve the club overall.

I hope that TFC Academy will develop great players for the CMNT. That being said, having a few very good players with other nationalities will actually help advance that goal. The two go together.

TorontoBlades
03-17-2009, 07:28 AM
we're developing players for the club first and foremost

...and he can always pull a JDG2 later on in life, and say his time up our academy made him "feel" Canadian

Shaughno
03-17-2009, 07:49 AM
What's the name of the academy again?


Toronto FC Academy

Not the Canadian National Academy.

shaggingscot
03-17-2009, 10:06 AM
Good for the lad. How is our academy any different from that of Liverpool or Manchester United? It's about developing players for the first team.

The world of football is littered with youngsters playing in youth academies outside of their country of birth. The world of football is also riddled with footballers playing for national teams because of heritage and not actual birthplace.

To me it's a non-issue. Good for the lad himself and yes it brings some attention to the academy itself and might mean another promising player chooses to play for us at some point.

You're beef is with the CSA and not TFC. Until the whole thing is blown up and rebuilt properly then this will continue to happen and even then it still will based on where the player thinks he will get more games.

Love that you're passionate about the national team but your anger is misplaced.

Shway
03-17-2009, 02:07 PM
What's the name of the academy again?


Toronto FC Academy

Not the Canadian National Academy.


yea i think people are starting to forget the difference between the TFC Academy and then U-17 Candian National Team

Shway
03-17-2009, 02:15 PM
Good for the lad. How is our academy any different from that of Liverpool or Manchester United? It's about developing players for the first team.

The world of football is littered with youngsters playing in youth academies outside of their country of birth. The world of football is also riddled with footballers playing for national teams because of heritage and not actual birthplace.

To me it's a non-issue. Good for the lad himself and yes it brings some attention to the academy itself and might mean another promising player chooses to play for us at some point.

You're beef is with the CSA and not TFC. Until the whole thing is blown up and rebuilt properly then this will continue to happen and even then it still will based on where the player thinks he will get more games.

Love that you're passionate about the national team but your anger is misplaced.

very great point.
everyone wants to create a european club, thats what it takes

Rooney17
03-25-2009, 03:55 PM
lol i understand this is the TFC supporters club forum but okay ryan plays for tfc academy he is committed to them but at the same time he was asked by Trinidad to come out. Trinidad's soccer program isn't as good as Canada but they do have more success than Canada. Also, you're grown up in Canada but doesn't mean you drink maple syrup and eat timmies all the time. He was grown up listening to soca, eating trini food, etc. Playing for Trinidad is a big honour and it is his decision to which country he would play for. And another thing all you people bashing on him saying how Canada probably never asked him. Canada went to the academy picked the tallest kids and left. Ryan isn't a big as many of the players as stated by the academy coach. But when Canada heard of his performances with Trinidad they hoped on the wagon and called him straight away. Why the hell would you play for a country who didn't look at you the first time?!

-just my 2 cents

deschamp86
03-25-2009, 04:02 PM
There is a thread on this player over at the Voyageurs board. He was born and raised in Canada to Trini parents. He's fully Canadian, even plays soccer in Canada.

deschamp86
03-25-2009, 04:03 PM
lol i understand this is the TFC supporters club forum but okay ryan plays for tfc academy he is committed to them but at the same time he was asked by Trinidad to come out. Trinidad's soccer program isn't as good as Canada but they do have more success than Canada. Also, you're grown up in Canada but doesn't mean you drink maple syrup and eat timmies all the time. He was grown up listening to soca, eating trini food, etc. Playing for Trinidad is a big honour and it is his decision to which country he would play for. And another thing all you people bashing on him saying how Canada probably never asked him. Canada went to the academy picked the tallest kids and left. Ryan isn't a big as many of the players as stated by the academy coach. But when Canada heard of his performances with Trinidad they hoped on the wagon and called him straight away. Why the hell would you play for a country who didn't look at you the first time?!

-just my 2 cents

So I'm assuming you are a big fan of Hargreaves.

Rooney17
03-25-2009, 04:05 PM
in fact i am. it's soccer we're talking about here...it's about passion i don't know why everyone can't respect players' decisions especially when most people here are not as successful as them. it's their decision...everyone knows canada's style of soccer is soft.

Heathen
03-25-2009, 10:34 PM
How anyone can criticize TFC in anyway for this kid being picked for T&T U-17s is beyond me, what are they supposed to do dump him because he doesn't want to play for Canada?
Having said that the ongoing lack of loyalty to Canada of second and third generation immigrants is sad, whether Ryan McLeod is an example of that I've got no idea just saying.

T_Mizz
03-25-2009, 10:57 PM
^I'm ot too sure the complaint is dircted at TFC more just frustration at how Mcloed doesn't play for Canada

devioustrevor
03-26-2009, 12:40 AM
Is all this discussion a moot point? Is Ryan Macleod even good enough to play for Canada?