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View Full Version : Carolina Cup Verdict: A reality check



mastermixer
03-14-2009, 06:41 PM
First off, I just want to say what a great site this is for getting some good discussion on the Reds, none of my friends are fans so I don't get the opportunity to discuss TFC with anyone, so I come here to get my fix.

Having said that, before this tourney started, based on many discussions on here overall I think our (okay...my) impression of this team was unrealistically high. Are they an improvement over year 1 and 2? Absolutely! But I think this Carolina thing helped give us a good perspective of the season to come. I would rather have lower expectations and be satisfied, than have super high expectations and be devistated everytime we lose a game or two.
Don't get me wrong, just because they lost today it does not mean I have lost an ounce of hope they will be making a big dent in the post season this year.
7 days and 1 hour till KC!!!

Pachuco
03-14-2009, 06:44 PM
Are we better then last year? YES. and probably for only 1 reason, DERO.

On the other hand, our defense is worst then last year. I said this the day Marshall was traded. Many of you thought he was a pilon, and now you are all seeing how valuable he was to this team. Our defense is going to struggle severly this year. Brennan and Wynne are looking awefull because they don't have a solid CB to step up and run the defense.

Brooker
03-14-2009, 06:48 PM
not much of a reality check. we did well... but not great.

just what i expected.

Stryker
03-14-2009, 06:49 PM
I was thinking a month ago we were a defender away from challanging for the supporters shield. Now I see just how much my head was in the clouds.
Having watched all the games I think our entire back line needs to be scraped.
Velez, Harmse, Wynne and yes.. even Brennen. If you want to build a winner then fuck sentiment. Sell Wynne ASAP to the highest bidder and trade/buy a whole new back line from there.
I think we'll make the playoffs, but I can't see us going any further as we stand now.

wzhxvy
03-14-2009, 06:53 PM
Brennan did not impress me today...I have to admit...but will reserve judgement for the time being...

twistedchinaman
03-14-2009, 06:53 PM
When we're on a high, the blemishes aren't as clear. When the blinders are off then those blemishes look...well, atrocious...

We can still be a playoff team, but we need more pieces. We can't paint another puzzle piece out of nothing or leave the picture blank and call it art. It ain't gonna happen.

ginkster88
03-14-2009, 07:04 PM
DP central defender is what I would like to see. Maybe trade for/buy a winger to upgrade over Ricketts; I think Vitti and Dichio should start as well.

ExiledRed
03-14-2009, 07:07 PM
We played the same line up for three games, three days apart.

I think that's a bit daft really, we have at least some depth, and the guys looked tired on wednesday, exhausted today. More rotation was needed this week, and maybe a bit more liberal subbing too.

Defence wouldnt be caught out of position so much, if the forwards and mids would stop passing the ball to the other team, seriously.

rocker
03-14-2009, 07:09 PM
we're better than DC but not up to the level of RSL (at least based on a very limited sample). Is that a shame? Is that awful? nope (not unless DC turns out to be the worst team in the league! ;)

We won 2-1, 2-1, and lost 2-1. Respectable scores given two of those games we were down 10 men.

I certainly wouldn't look ahead to supporters shield while still in March. If you did, and this is a reality check, I guess that's a good thing. But TFC did win 2 of 3 and looked better than last year at this time. Improvement is always good.

Yohan
03-14-2009, 07:14 PM
we're better than DC but not up to the level of RSL (at least based on a very limited sample). Is that a shame? Is that awful? nope (not unless DC turns out to be the worst team in the league! ;)

We won 2-1, 2-1, and lost 2-1. Respectable scores given two of those games we were down 10 men.

I certainly wouldn't look ahead to supporters shield while still in March. If you did, and this is a reality check, I guess that's a good thing. But TFC did win 2 of 3 and looked better than last year at this time. Improvement is always good.
Yes but certain standards should be met.
Backline getting shredded like today is not good. Even during DC game backline looked wobbly at times.

Dunkers
03-14-2009, 08:13 PM
to make things clear, RSL is going to own the west, i dont think they have lost a game all preseason, they are really looking strong so far (yes its preseason). If i had to pick a team from the west to win the supprots shield, it would deffiantly be them, Morales was second in assists last year, to that guy from the KKKrew. Beckerman will unload his cannon of a shot from anywhere, Will Johnson has some solid potential (2008 goal of the year, with a little help from us here)

So if we lost 2-1 to a team that is top of their class in the west, im not too upset, we had our chances and didnt finish, and it really doesnt change my outlook on the season, we can hang with the best teams in the leauge, and we showed that with 10 men today

poppamidnight
03-14-2009, 08:24 PM
Today just gave me ammo for my arsenal

I've been saying this for two month now:

HARMSE is not starter-worthy....

I can't count how many people on these boards have tried to say that Harmse 'developed' (or had the potential to develop) into a STARTER-QUALITY CB!!!!

Honestly - I've been taught you always tell the truth, and let rip on somebody if they spread false/misinformed information

I've bit my tounge for a while, out of a courtesy to fellow RPB, but if ANYONE tries to tell me Harmse is starter quality I will no longer shrug it off

It is complete and utter stupidity to try and claim such a thing,
and you should be accountable for your beliefs if you say such a thing....

By being accountable in this regards, I will see it as my duty to make sure everyone knows whoever may believe such a remark is a complete and utter moron

So please fellow RPB,
be realistic in your opinions

Harmse is shite and lets leave it at that -
if you tried to claim he couldh've changed, your an idiot, and the whole world just saw your "Iraq = Weapons of Mass Destruction" belief system

Derko
03-14-2009, 09:01 PM
Agreed Harmse is not a starter, what the fuck did he say to get sent off, sure it was a yellow card, but I expect you to keep your mouth shut and suck it up. Harmse is not very professional is he.

Shakes McQueen
03-14-2009, 09:07 PM
Today just gave me ammo for my arsenal

I've been saying this for two month now:

HARMSE is not starter-worthy....

I can't count how many people on these boards have tried to say that Harmse 'developed' (or had the potential to develop) into a STARTER-QUALITY CB!!!!

Honestly - I've been taught you always tell the truth, and let rip on somebody if they spread false/misinformed information

I've bit my tounge for a while, out of a courtesy to fellow RPB, but if ANYONE tries to tell me Harmse is starter quality I will no longer shrug it off

It is complete and utter stupidity to try and claim such a thing,
and you should be accountable for your beliefs if you say such a thing....

By being accountable in this regards, I will see it as my duty to make sure everyone knows whoever may believe such a remark is a complete and utter moron

So please fellow RPB,
be realistic in your opinions

Harmse is shite and lets leave it at that -
if you tried to claim he couldh've changed, your an idiot, and the whole world just saw your "Iraq = Weapons of Mass Destruction" belief system

Harmse played pretty well as a starter last season. He had a bad game. Brennan had a bad game too - is he starter-worthy to you? Serioux got a red card in our first match - is he starter-worthy to you?

It's pre-season - chill out.

Lastly, what is it with the fact that every post of yours, is always deriding others as morons for their opinions of players, or telling them they clearly don't watch the team?

So far we look much better than last season, and I'm confident that the boys will pick up the intensity once the meaningful games start. Some people just seem to be looking for a reason to declare that the sky is falling.

- Scott

mastermixer
03-14-2009, 09:39 PM
carver wasnt too happy with todays game either

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=434

"could've drove a bus between the back four"

Workie
03-14-2009, 09:48 PM
I have been forbidden to post my thoughts until I sober up!

Either way people aint gonna like them.

Granted it was nice getting to talk to the RSL players after the game.

Jack
03-14-2009, 09:54 PM
I agree with Poppamidnight. Harmse is not a starting centre back.

You can get away with a tug like that in the midfield, but not on the last man.

He's a bonehead.

Hell, even Velez is better than Harmse positionally. Anyway, I don't think it's the end of the world. RSL is the team that should have been in the final (but for two posts) rather than the Shite Bulls. They also ran right at Harmse in the first half, exposing him and exploiting our weak link, as a well-coached and well-organized team should do.

So we're not going to win the Supporters Shield, but we're going to be better. We're going to get into the playoffs and maybe do some damage there.

I still think we need that stud CB we've been chasing. But look around the league...how many are there?

rocker
03-14-2009, 09:59 PM
I agree with Jack... Harmse is no solution, but every team in MLS has somebody they'd love to replace.. but you have to live with it sometimes.

We could play a game at BMO where Harmse is a total liability, but then the opposition's striker is the next Jeff Cunningham, and it all evens out ;)

bribetaker
03-14-2009, 10:07 PM
Battery fan here. 1st off, Workie, what the fuck are you doing here? You should be banging brews in the 3 Lions!!! :drinking:

I have no dog in your MLS fight but I've adopted you. Calm down. Repeat after me. It's just "PRESEASON". Yes, it starts for real next week but it's a marathon, not a sprint. You're gonna do alright. Your boys have fight. You have fighting fans. :canada:

Parkdale
03-14-2009, 10:10 PM
You're gonna do alright. Your boys have fight

did someone bribe you into saying that? ;)

Workie
03-14-2009, 10:19 PM
Battery fan here. 1st off, Workie, what the fuck are you doing here? You should be banging brews in the 3 Lions!!! :drinking:

:canada:

True that Bro!

Hope to god we come back next year! Going to miss Ya'll and will see ya when the Battery Makes it up north.

bribetaker
03-14-2009, 10:24 PM
Mrs. BT had her way with me!!!

O ye of little faith.....

You looked pretty orgainzed the first 2, that counts for something. I don't know your roster but if people stay healthy and play consistent, that's what you do to get into the playoffs. It doesn't matter if you're 1st or last seed. Focus. Big picture. You don't have to be world beaters every match.

(& whether I'm compensated for my opinion is no bizness of yours!! :D)

Roogsy
03-14-2009, 10:25 PM
First - It has been well covered on this board, we have all been worried about our back four. I think this game was a painful example of what we will be experiencing the whole season if we don't have a stud CB in there by the start of the season, which is FAST approaching.

Second - I think we need to all check our expectations. This team is going to need some luck if in it's current form, we want to make the playoffs. We improved up front only to worsen at the back. Overall, we are slightly better, but not massively better.

Third - I was surprised at how well RSL played. I thought their run at the end of the season was a fluke. The preseason seems to be showing it may not have been. The regular season will prove whether or not it was but at the moment, it looks like RSL is going to make some noise.

Lastly - I want to state something that I felt last year and never vocalized. Carver needs to spend some time working with their players on their decision making. Not just making BETTER decisions, but also making them FASTER. They are far too hesitant, especially in the final third. They were last year and this preseason I have seen the same.

Address these issues and we can have a great year. Fail to address them and we are going to struggle again unfortunately.

RedsYNWA
03-14-2009, 10:27 PM
Preseason means dick all
we make the playoffs and win the Can Champ....its all we all need
let's not get crazy our team in not nearly good enough to win anything yet

bribetaker
03-14-2009, 10:39 PM
To be fair, RSL did look the best this week. But.....in all sports, preseason success does not always translate into a championship, in fact, statistically, it rarely does.

Nuvinho
03-14-2009, 10:51 PM
We outscored our opponents 2-0 when we are down a man.

One thing you can say, is that they don't give up when they are down a goal or a man.

bribetaker
03-14-2009, 11:26 PM
We outscored our opponents 2-0 when we are down a man.

One thing you can say, is that they don't give up when they are down a goal or a man.

I was talking about that to one of your fans, playing a man down is good training.

Also, your keeper picked up a passback pass that resulted in an indirect kick from about 7 meters out. That's an allout free-for-all that is almost never covered in training. TFC cleared it out cleanly. Not a big deal, but those little special plays can result in killer goals.

Yes, I'm pimping you. I can't believe the week is over.

Sniff......:(

David_Oliveira
03-14-2009, 11:51 PM
I only watched today's game and Vitti Did not impress at all. Did he do better in the other games?

MUFC_Niagara
03-14-2009, 11:59 PM
Our defense definitely looked less than spectacular this preseason. Lots of holes, lots of bad decisions and sadly we were made to pay. I agree that I do not believe Harmse is a starting central defender. We all knew what we were getting with Serioux. I think he made some bad decisions in the first game but ultimately I think he'll work out. We need another CB, no doubt about it. Especially with the way Wynne and Brennan like to get forward. We need a CB pairing that anchors things back there and right now Harmse and Serioux are not doing it. I would not be surprised to see Velez and Serioux paired together in KC.

colman1860
03-15-2009, 12:25 AM
my post mortem:

http://torontofc.theoffside.com/uncategorized/toronto-fc-–-real-salt-lake-12.html#more-459

Shakes McQueen
03-15-2009, 01:55 AM
I agree with Poppamidnight. Harmse is not a starting centre back.

You can get away with a tug like that in the midfield, but not on the last man.

He's a bonehead.

Hell, even Velez is better than Harmse positionally. Anyway, I don't think it's the end of the world. RSL is the team that should have been in the final (but for two posts) rather than the Shite Bulls. They also ran right at Harmse in the first half, exposing him and exploiting our weak link, as a well-coached and well-organized team should do.

So we're not going to win the Supporters Shield, but we're going to be better. We're going to get into the playoffs and maybe do some damage there.

I still think we need that stud CB we've been chasing. But look around the league...how many are there?

Exactly. Every MLS team is going to have a weakness somewhere - it's the price you pay in a league with such a small salary cap, if you want to have bonafide quality anywhere else.

Harmse isn't a starter, but he did no worse tonight, than Serioux did in the first game, and everyone hails him as a solid upgrade at CB. Both got sent off for stupid, easily avoidable fouls.

Or weakness this year is clearly going to be at CB, but if the guys playing there can put in a slightly better performance than last season, coupled with the additional scoring provided by our dangerous attacking options, we will be fine. Think of how many games we lost by a single goal, or settled for a draw. Thank of how many points we threw away.

This is a league that thrives on scoring, not rock solid defense. Positionally sound defenders, with a great football IQ, are not common. Especially in MLS.

- Scott

Cashcleaner
03-15-2009, 02:15 AM
I was really thinking tonight would have been our chance to clean RSL's clocks and win some silver, and although the CCC is still just a fairly small pre-season tourney, I'm gutted nonetheless with our loss. Obviously, Harmse should be given the appropriate criticism but the overall collapse of our defense and poor foward passing and positioning was what really killed us. At least, that's what I could glean off the choppy webstream.

Look, at the end of the day I think we lost a game that I think we could have won. I wouldn't say Harmse's red card is totally responsible for the loss, but it certainly didn't help.

Flipityflu
03-15-2009, 04:45 AM
season ticket packages will include a TFC seat belt. gonna need it.

Dozitwin
03-15-2009, 04:51 AM
First off, I just want to say what a great site this is for getting some good discussion on the Reds, none of my friends are fans so I don't get the opportunity to discuss TFC with anyone, so I come here to get my fix.

Having said that, before this tourney started, based on many discussions on here overall I think our (okay...my) impression of this team was unrealistically high. Are they an improvement over year 1 and 2? Absolutely! But I think this Carolina thing helped give us a good perspective of the season to come. I would rather have lower expectations and be satisfied, than have super high expectations and be devistated everytime we lose a game or two.
Don't get me wrong, just because they lost today it does not mean I have lost an ounce of hope they will be making a big dent in the post season this year.
7 days and 1 hour till KC!!!

Interesting perspective but when we look at how soundly we were beaten at last years CCC we're our expectations really that high? I'd say probably not, it was the strong start to the season, from the first LA match through 6 game unbeaten streak and out 8 match unbeaten at home run that built our expectations. That combined with some of the signings, Ricketts, Guevara, Robert, Teliby really got our imaginations going about how 'we're gonna win the league'. I've never followed the lower your expectations and you won't be disppointed line of thinking. Otherwise why even cheer for a team at all?

I think that as supporters we should set our expectations high and that it is the responsibility of the team to meet those expectations and our job to cheer them on along the way. Watching today's....yesterday's match (sorry I'm on night so it's still Saturday for me)...I was disappointed with the loss yes but not with the performance overall. The first 25 minutes blew but when we were down to 10 the team put out the perfomance I hoped they would have put out from the start. Down 2 goals and 1 man it would have been all too easy for them to pack it in but they soldiered on and showed some character....and really that is my biggest expectation of the team.

So says the guy who's English team has been just been relegated.....again.

James17930
03-15-2009, 05:11 AM
Personally I'm glad we lost. Too many people had, a someone said earlier in the thread, their 'heads in the clouds.'

I think JC was right in that interview -- there was complacency settling to the team, and too many supporters were already declaring this tourney ours before the last game had even started.

This should hopefully get the players into the frame of mind they need to be in before the season starts.

They'll get a good rest this week and then hopefully they will come out hungry and flying in KC next weekend.

poppamidnight
03-15-2009, 03:25 PM
Harmse played pretty well as a starter last season. He had a bad game. Brennan had a bad game too - is he starter-worthy to you? Serioux got a red card in our first match - is he starter-worthy to you?

It's pre-season - chill out.

Lastly, what is it with the fact that every post of yours, is always deriding others as morons for their opinions of players, or telling them they clearly don't watch the team?

So far we look much better than last season, and I'm confident that the boys will pick up the intensity once the meaningful games start. Some people just seem to be looking for a reason to declare that the sky is falling.

- Scott

Scott, Please don't make me lump you into the ignorant/minions of society
I just graduated w/ a degree in Communication, and a big part of it has us discussing how negative effects (a 'dumming down' of society if you will) occurs when people are allowed to give opinions - PRESENTED AS TRUTH - without adequate research

Your starting to show this...

you mention a select few games last year where Harmse was good as CB -
but no -
you 'conveniently' neglect the games where he was ABSOLUTE SHITE at CB

...Remember - the games where he was so bad that Julius James (yes THE ROOKIE AT THE TIME) was forced to cover his ass... A bloody rookie!!!

So please, don't use select information to try and put a positive spin on things

I don't like to sound negative, but I insist on having some sort of rational/realistic thoughts being discussed here

And rational/realistic = Harmse is not starting CB worth (and is looking not even field-worthy)
not "it's okay - Harmse will bounce back" (inferring your cool with him as a starting CB)

...it just gives people false hope
Be realistic here

rocker
03-15-2009, 03:53 PM
I just graduated w/ a degree in Communication,

communication... which school was that?

Shakes McQueen
03-15-2009, 04:31 PM
Scott, Please don't make me lump you into the ignorant/minions of society
I just graduated w/ a degree in Communication, and a big part of it has us discussing how negative effects (a 'dumming down' of society if you will) occurs when people are allowed to give opinions - PRESENTED AS TRUTH - without adequate research

I have a university degree in criminology, minored in psychology, and my degree is about as relevant to this discussion as yours. That is to say - it isn't at all. So don't try to brow beat me with your intellectual pedigree.

There is no such thing as a "fact", when it comes to conjecture about whether someone could start as a CB in MLS. And the people who said they thought Harmse played well last season, and thought he could start, werent presenting that point of view as "truth" - they were giving an opinion. Maybe a strong opinion, but an opinion nonetheless.

On the contrary, you're the one always telling people that they clearly don't watch the team, or clearly aren't intelligent, or clearly don't know what they are talking about - without any "research" on your part. Your research consists of: "Do this person's opinions match my own? No? IDIOT."

The only facts in sports, are the statistics. Everything else is opinion - and that is what makes sports talk compelling in the first place.

Back to the subject at hand.

- Scott

poppamidnight
03-15-2009, 07:26 PM
I have a university degree in criminology, minored in psychology, and my degree is about as relevant to this discussion as yours. That is to say - it isn't at all. So don't try to brow beat me with your intellectual pedigree.

There is no such thing as a "fact", when it comes to conjecture about whether someone could start as a CB in MLS. And the people who said they thought Harmse played well last season, and thought he could start, werent presenting that point of view as "truth" - they were giving an opinion. Maybe a strong opinion, but an opinion nonetheless.

On the contrary, you're the one always telling people that they clearly don't watch the team, or clearly aren't intelligent, or clearly don't know what they are talking about - without any "research" on your part. Your research consists of: "Do this person's opinions match my own? No? IDIOT."

The only facts in sports, are the statistics. Everything else is opinion - and that is what makes sports talk compelling in the first place.

Back to the subject at hand.

- Scott

Note bolded

You went to school - it's something called EMPIRICAL ANALYSIS

AKA Watching the games
....ALL TFC the games,
and then compare who screwed up the most, and who made us the most successful
...that's a pretty good indicator of who is starter worthy
.....or you could take it 1 step further and analyze our CB in relation to other teams CB's

You (not me) are the one that focused on THE END OF THE SEASON when he looked good

I merely pointed out the fact those were not the only games Harmse started CB - there were earlier ones where he was shite

how was he shite?......EMPIRICAL OBSERVATION!!!! (watching the games)
-Missing tackles
-pushing up out of positions
-getting burned by attackers
-Nana being the only man back

Heck, if i had a comedy network staff at hand like Colbert or Stewart I'd invite you on and pull a Jim Cramer on you! (that is to say showing a 'highlight reel' of Harmse's f-ups while you'd sit there stammering away trying to justify your words)
It's mighty fine and noble of you to direct peoples attention to a select picture of a player (backend of Harmse's season last year), but you cannot neglect a greater timeline (the ENTIRE SEASON)

So yea, like you said back to discussion
Harmse is shite, should only start if our ENTIRE BACKLINE IS IN THE INJURY WARD

Shakes McQueen
03-15-2009, 08:02 PM
Heck, if i had a comedy network staff at hand like Colbert or Stewart I'd invite you on and pull a Jim Cramer on you! (that is to say showing a 'highlight reel' of Harmse's f-ups while you'd sit there stammering away trying to justify your words)
It's mighty fine and noble of you to direct peoples attention to a select picture of a player (backend of Harmse's season last year), but you cannot neglect a greater timeline (the ENTIRE SEASON)

Except he didn't start the ENTIRE SEASON, he only started games towards the END of LAST SEASON. In fact, he didn't even start playing CB until towards the END of LAST SEASON. As a guy who prides himself on never missing a minute of any game ever, I would have though you'd noticed that. I also thought you would have noticed that the team was playing much better towards the end of the season, than they had been for most of the summer before it.

Jim Cramer made statements about the markets, and the businesses he told people to buy stock in, went out of business. That is easy to measure, because he could either be right or wrong - and the result had finality.

I'm also curious as to how you would measure "screws up the most" and "made us the most successful" empirically, in a sport where the entire team's skill, creativity and vision are what create chances on goal, and good defense is dependent on the entire backline maintaining the integrity of their formation and marking.

The only empirical measure for success, in fact, is the team's record at the end of the season. And by that measurement and logic, none of our players should be starters in MLS yet.

Actually, here's another empirical measurement - goals allowed. And on that measurement, we were in the middle of the pack last season.

Regarding your criteria for screwing up - Wynne pushes up too far from RB all the time, and his speed has bailed him out of many a poor defensive decision. Brennan occasionally looks plain awful. Velez and Marshall cost us points with their poor marking and positioning. Nana played well at times, but he too looked as bad as the rest on many an occasion.

You don't have empirical data on these people - you have opinions. Opinions formed informally from watching them, just like the rest of us.

Of course, if you do have data, please let me see it! Give us your data and notes, that prove Harmse shouldn't be a starter.

There is no agreed upon, universal criteria, for what constitutes a starter.

For the record, I don't actually even think Harmse should start at CB for us. I'm simply taking up this fight, because I'm tired of your snobbery, and judging of people who dare to have a contrary opinion to yours, on a subject as subjective as sports.

- Scott

Jack
03-15-2009, 08:21 PM
Poppa, some of your posts are bordering on personal insults. Please remember that we're all here to support TFC and differences of opinion are fine, but insults are not.

Attack the argument, not the person, please.

James17930
03-15-2009, 08:23 PM
Scott, Please don't make me lump you into the ignorant/minions of society
I just graduated w/ a degree in Communication, and a big part of it has us discussing how negative effects (a 'dumming down' of society if you will) occurs when people are allowed to give opinions - PRESENTED AS TRUTH - without adequate research

Your starting to show this...

you mention a select few games last year where Harmse was good as CB -
but no -
you 'conveniently' neglect the games where he was ABSOLUTE SHITE at CB

...Remember - the games where he was so bad that Julius James (yes THE ROOKIE AT THE TIME) was forced to cover his ass... A bloody rookie!!!

So please, don't use select information to try and put a positive spin on things

I don't like to sound negative, but I insist on having some sort of rational/realistic thoughts being discussed here

And rational/realistic = Harmse is not starting CB worth (and is looking not even field-worthy)
not "it's okay - Harmse will bounce back" (inferring your cool with him as a starting CB)

...it just gives people false hope
Be realistic here

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Shakes McQueen
03-15-2009, 08:30 PM
Sorry, couldn't help it.

I considered pointing that out, but I didn't want to undermine my own argument by letting him accuse me of being pedantic, or using ad hominem attacks.

- Scott

TFC OZZ
03-15-2009, 10:37 PM
Except he didn't start the ENTIRE SEASON, he only started games towards the END of LAST SEASON. In fact, he didn't even start playing CB until towards the END of LAST SEASON. As a guy who prides himself on never missing a minute of any game ever, I would have though you'd noticed that. I also thought you would have noticed that the team was playing much better towards the end of the season, than they had been for most of the summer before it.

Jim Cramer made statements about the markets, and the businesses he told people to buy stock in, went out of business. That is easy to measure, because he could either be right or wrong - and the result had finality.

I'm also curious as to how you would measure "screws up the most" and "made us the most successful" empirically, in a sport where the entire team's skill, creativity and vision are what create chances on goal, and good defense is dependent on the entire backline maintaining the integrity of their formation and marking.

The only empirical measure for success, in fact, is the team's record at the end of the season. And by that measurement and logic, none of our players should be starters in MLS yet.

Actually, here's another empirical measurement - goals allowed. And on that measurement, we were in the middle of the pack last season.

Regarding your criteria for screwing up - Wynne pushes up too far from RB all the time, and his speed has bailed him out of many a poor defensive decision. Brennan occasionally looks plain awful. Velez and Marshall cost us points with their poor marking and positioning. Nana played well at times, but he too looked as bad as the rest on many an occasion.

You don't have empirical data on these people - you have opinions. Opinions formed informally from watching them, just like the rest of us.

Of course, if you do have data, please let me see it! Give us your data and notes, that prove Harmse shouldn't be a starter.

There is no agreed upon, universal criteria, for what constitutes a starter.

For the record, I don't actually even think Harmse should start at CB for us. I'm simply taking up this fight, because I'm tired of your snobbery, and judging of people who dare to have a contrary opinion to yours, on a subject as subjective as sports.

- Scott

All I can say is that I agree, and thank you.

Marco2K
03-15-2009, 11:28 PM
You guys need to relax.

Bottom line is that if had we not signed Dero would be battling for last.


Harmse not a full time CB.
Velez. Great USL player.
Ricketts. Once again has one good play followed by 7 or 8 bad plays. Having him at $200 000 + is really messed up.

Lets just hope Dero stays healty and Vitti can adapt to the MLS.




and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You guys have way to much time on your hands. U think people want to read that long shit.

Nobody cares what degrees you may or may not have. ITS TFC!!

Shakes McQueen
03-15-2009, 11:37 PM
You guys need to relax.

Bottom line is that if had we not signed Dero would be battling for last.


Harmse not a full time CB.
Velez. Great USL player.
Ricketts. Once again has one good play followed by 7 or 8 bad plays. Having him at $200 000 + is really messed up.

Lets just hope Dero stays healty and Vitti can adapt to the MLS.

and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You guys have way to much time on your hands. U think people want to read that long shit.

Nobody cares what degrees you may or may not have. ITS TFC!!

If you read my long shit, you would see that I agree with you - our degrees are completely irrelevant to this discussion, and I pointed out as much.

- Scott

Marco2K
03-15-2009, 11:46 PM
Busy playing Nhl 09. Can you dig it?

Flashman
03-16-2009, 09:29 AM
Oh well, a 2-1 loss to the team ranked 3rd in the SBI Power Rankings. It could have been worse...

A loss to a weaker team:
Colorado Rapids 1, Seattle Sounders 0 (http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/sounders/2009/03/12/rapids_1_sounders_fc_0.html).

A loss to a USL team:
Carolina Railhawks 1, New England Revolution 0 (http://www.carynews.com/sports/story/12021.html).
Austin Aztecs 1, Columbus Crew 0 (http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/03/15/0315aztex.html).

A thumping from our season opener opponent:
Kansas City Wizards 4, Minnesota Thunder 0 (http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3789780).

A tie against the Beck-less Galaxay:
Chicago Fire 1, Los Angeles Galaxy 1 (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/2009/03/14/20090314spt-mls.html). :rofl:

rocker
03-16-2009, 09:58 AM
that's some nice perspective there, Flashman...

Shakes McQueen
03-16-2009, 02:38 PM
Oh well, a 2-1 loss to the team ranked 3rd in the SBI Power Rankings. It could have been worse...

A loss to a weaker team:
Colorado Rapids 1, Seattle Sounders 0 (http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/sounders/2009/03/12/rapids_1_sounders_fc_0.html).

A loss to a USL team:
Carolina Railhawks 1, New England Revolution 0 (http://www.carynews.com/sports/story/12021.html).
Austin Aztecs 1, Columbus Crew 0 (http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/03/15/0315aztex.html).

A thumping from our season opener opponent:
Kansas City Wizards 4, Minnesota Thunder 0 (http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3789780).

A tie against the Beck-less Galaxay:
Chicago Fire 1, Los Angeles Galaxy 1 (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/2009/03/14/20090314spt-mls.html). :rofl:

Wait... so... you mean to tell me that pre-season games aren't necessarily any indication of regular season results?

Surely you jest. Preseason means everything. :D

- Scott

rocker
03-16-2009, 02:42 PM
Wait... so... you mean to tell me that pre-season games aren't necessarily any indication of regular season results?

Surely you jest. Preseason means everything. :D

- Scott

Columbus Crew's gonna finish last this season, since they lost to the expansion USL Aztex.

It's proof.