Portland Votes YES to MLS

[Vancouver MLS]

http://www.soccertimes.com/mls/2009/mar12 (http://www.soccertimes.com/mls/2009/mar12)

quote:

That's not all. Urban renewal money raised by the selling of bonds would be used to fund the plan and a new urban renewal district would have to be established to spend it on a new baseball park. Multnomah County officials say no new urban renewal districts can be started without the county's approval and they are not happy with the proposed plan. Nor are the Trailblazers pleased about the prospects of a baseball stadium being built on land they say has been promised them to build a new shopping and entertainment complex next to their arena.
If all this wasn't enough, Steve Janik, a lawyer working as special counsel for Portland, told the city's media that the council would not be obligated to any deal, even by approving the initial motion. The document before the council contains many contingencies, Janik said, and the council is not required to go forward if the finances cannot be worked out.

[Don Julio]

I'd say it doesn't - the movement in Ottawa is what you should be watching.

[gmacpheetfc]

Portland and Van City in for 2011

[kodiakTFC]

Portland and Van City in for 2011

Sounds about right.

[rocker]

It's a Yes, 3-2. Portland is IN MLS.

How this affects Vancouver only heaven knows

Portland isn't in yet.

Garber hasn't announced anything. :)

We've learned over the past year that it don't mean shit til it comes out of Garber's mouth.

[Vancouver MLS]

That Budweiser announcement with St. Louis today was very intriguing...

until I heard their lousy stadium only holds 6000...

ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Vancouver MLS]

so are you suggesting they'll announce Vancouver as # 17 and...

then wait till late April until Ottawa has a vote as to whether it'll be Portland or Ottawa?

well, look folks, the MLS waited this long to help Portland out...

why can't they wait a few weeks longer to give Melnyk a chance?

[rocker]

i'm just saying the vote today doesn't mean Portland is in.

It means Portland's council voted 3-2 to forward the agreement to the next stage of things.

The portland city council is not the one deciding on who gets into MLS.

When Garber says "portland is in" then portland is in. :)

[drewski]

It's a Yes, 3-2. Portland is IN MLS.

How this affects Vancouver only heaven knows:

http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDetail.htm/2009/03/11/Council-nears-decision-on-Major-League-Soccer-franchise-in-Portland


would think it helps. a local 3 way rivalry would help boost support i'd think

[Vancouver MLS]

and it's not a full endorsement. There's still a $ 15 million hole:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/portland_council_debates_socce.html

[TFCREDNWHITE]

If it becomes Vancouver and Portland in 2011, then holy crap...

That's a nice TRI-FECTA of clashes between Seattle,Vancouver and Portland!!

What a Tri-angle eh!?

[ginkster88]

This means many west coast roadtrips for this soon-to-be Vancouverite; only when TFC is in town of course.

[DigzTFC!]

$15 million is pretty large gap to cover. I think this is a bit of an inflated story right now. You just don't come up with that kind of cash overnight

[Ossington Mental Youth]

dude, Ottawa was never going to happen

[Super Cereal]

dude, Ottawa was never going to happen

Then why were they even in the running (regardless of whther or not they were frontrunners, they were in the running)? They didn't have the best chance, but don't say it's never gonna happen. May I ask how you know/knew it was never going to happen?

[ginkster88]

I actually felt that Ottawa had a strong shot, given the difficulties facing Portland's bid and St. Louis having no money. Let's face it, if the Portland vote went 3-2 the other way, we would all be talking about a probable Vancouver Ottawa 2010 expansion class.

[FluSH]

I'm happy to see Portland moving along... great supporters.

[nascarguy]

yeah mls need more teams with great supporters..

[RicoSuave44]

If it becomes Vancouver and Portland in 2011, then holy crap...

That's a nice TRI-FECTA of clashes between Seattle,Vancouver and Portland!!

What a Tri-angle eh!?


meh, it's more like a line with a slight bend in it when you look at the map:rolleyes:

[james]

if they do announce Vancouver and Portland are in then its just another reason why we should end this East-West divisions and go to a 1-league table. There is more teams over on the West side then East!!

[Cashcleaner]

i'm just saying the vote today doesn't mean Portland is in.

It means Portland's council voted 3-2 to forward the agreement to the next stage of things.

The portland city council is not the one deciding on who gets into MLS.

When Garber says "portland is in" then portland is in. :)

Exactly. All this vote means is that Portland has said yes to MLS. MLS still has to say yes to Portland.


if they do announce Vancouver and Portland are in then its just another reason why we should end this East-West divisions and go to a 1-league table. There is more teams over on the West side then East!!

James, you make my head hurt.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Then why were they even in the running (regardless of whther or not they were frontrunners, they were in the running)? They didn't have the best chance, but don't say it's never gonna happen. May I ask how you know/knew it was never going to happen?

a couple of reasons, they have terrible history with sports fans, they dont have a stadium (there are alot of controversies with getting a stadium), there is little to no history of soccer there (outside of the u-20 world cup/and youth players which as we have seen doesnt mean that people will go to the games) as well as there are better populated cities with soccer histories AND financial/stadium/peoples support

[Ossington Mental Youth]

thats not to mention the fact that they are hesitant to move into Canada (let alone a smaller market)

[jloome]

Oss, you're missing the bigger picture on Ottawa. Garber is sold on it being an MLSE-style partnership between an NHL franchise and an MLS franchise, which is why he said Ottawa would be contigent on a stadium in Kanata, paired with the arena.

That's the kind of money, expertise and recognition he believes drove TFC to success (it isn't; it was dormant fans coming out of the woodwork, because they finally had real footie, not the Lynx) and what he fully expects would happen in Ottawa. ANd I think he's right.

IN fact, I would wager money you could put an MLS franchise in any major Canadian city of more than, say, 500,000 and get 16,000 season ticket holders, easily. The same exact breeding conditions that existed in Toronto exist in Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver. They could all support MLS -- and for anyone who thinks otherwise, go back and look at what Torontonians said about their own city's chances of backing MLS. There were a whooooole lot of skeptics who sounded exactly like the people commenting on Ottawa and Vancouver now.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Fair enough argument, i still cant say im convinced at all that Ottawa would have the necessary support for an MLS team (let alone the other suggested cities, outside of Montreal and Vancouver).

I guess for me its a lack of diversity in cultures (which doesnt always dictate support but does have a tendency to work in favor of) as well as the fact that hockey is still king (and there is a hesistancy of people to look to soccer as a 'real sport', much like the United States).

I think (when i say i think i mean that when the subject does come up it...) the average joe schmoe prefers north america sports like football (whether its CFL or NFL), hockey and baseball. Yes theres a bit of room for basketball in there but soccer just isnt and hasnt been in the picture for a number of years. Id love to be wrong and hope I am. I try to preach the word of the sport on a regular basis but alot of people i talk too just didnt grow up with it which is fine.

Thats not to mention the fact that theres a large group of people who do watch the sport but still turn their noses down at the MLS as its regarded as amateur (soccer snobs of course).

I guess what im suggesting is that Canada is in a similar situation to the US, theres potential for it in certain areas but overall it just wont happen as there are too many deciding outside factors, im sure ill dwell on this and expand further

[Ossington Mental Youth]

there might be a curiousity, like when the olympics are on but that doesnt necessarily mean that people watch javelin everday.

Heck, showjumping forces TFC games to be moved because it has more people watching it.

[Mark in Ottawa]

dude, Ottawa was never going to happen
The key phrase here is "was never going to happen".
That is a lot different then "is never going to happen".

I agree that Ottawa will not be ready for this expansion and that Vancouver and Portland are the front runners.

That being said Ottawa may be ready in the future if the city can ever sort out the mess they have with different groups of developers and different visions approaching the public trough for a piece of the limited public purse available for a stadium project.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Yeah, I'm in agreement that we may eventually see an Ottawa club in MLS. Probably not over the next five years, but maybe towards the end of the expansion plans. What we need to do is get Toronto and Vancouver up and running and showing a good level of support and then have the fans in Ottawa and Montreal take notice of that success and really push for respective expansion entry.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I really dont think itll happen at all.
Previously there were better contenders and i think thatll be the case in the future.
Speculation begins here:
2011- Portland, Vancouver
2012- St Louis
2013- Montreal (i think they will then realize that there is more to gain from joining the MLS)

which would make 18 teams if im not mistaken. At that point there will be space for only 2 more teams (most likely, i gotta say anything more than 20 teams in the MLS is pushing, unless soccer takes off in the biggest way, which as mentioned previously is doubtful). I think the last two teams will be american. Im not sure who they will be or if they will be successful but i do think that american cities will be a priority. If Melnyk is still serious and has his shit together including a stadium and local supporters groups, sure, but im still not convinced itll be likely.

[Vancouver MLS]

This is the time Joey Saputo should step up to the plate and hit a home run

[Dirk Diggler]

Oss, you're missing the bigger picture on Ottawa. Garber is sold on it being an MLSE-style partnership between an NHL franchise and an MLS franchise, which is why he said Ottawa would be contigent on a stadium in Kanata, paired with the arena.

That's the kind of money, expertise and recognition he believes drove TFC to success (it isn't; it was dormant fans coming out of the woodwork, because they finally had real footie, not the Lynx) and what he fully expects would happen in Ottawa. ANd I think he's right.

IN fact, I would wager money you could put an MLS franchise in any major Canadian city of more than, say, 500,000 and get 16,000 season ticket holders, easily. The same exact breeding conditions that existed in Toronto exist in Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver. They could all support MLS -- and for anyone who thinks otherwise, go back and look at what Torontonians said about their own city's chances of backing MLS. There were a whooooole lot of skeptics who sounded exactly like the people commenting on Ottawa and Vancouver now.

I don't want to toot our own collective horns but outside of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, I don't think there is any city in Canada that will be able to sell out 16,000 season tickets (easily no less).

[Cashcleaner]

I just don't know about him anymore. Saputo's motivations are so hard to pin down. If he waits too long, he'll likely have an even bigger expansion fee to pay, but I don't think he's totally sold on the profitability of an MLS franchise in Montreal. The Impact are in a state of flux and while I'd really like to see them in MLS, I just don't know if that's ever going to happen.

[rocker]

I just don't know about him anymore. Saputo's motivations are so hard to pin down. If he waits too long, he'll likely have an even bigger expansion fee to pay, but I don't think he's totally sold on the profitability of an MLS franchise in Montreal. The Impact are in a state of flux and while I'd really like to see them in MLS, I just don't know if that's ever going to happen.

the thing I dont get is why he would be worried about profit.
i mean, he couldn't have been making a profit over the years.. the tickets were cheap, that crappy stadium couldn't have been making money. But now he's worried about profit? i thought he was growing the game?

then i read the other day he has blocked Quebec City from getting a USL team because he wants to expand the Impact brand all over the province.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This is the time Joey Saputo should step up to the plate and hit a home run

but


I just don't know about him anymore. Saputo's motivations are so hard to pin down. If he waits too long, he'll likely have an even bigger expansion fee to pay, but I don't think he's totally sold on the profitability of an MLS franchise in Montreal. The Impact are in a state of flux and while I'd really like to see them in MLS, I just don't know if that's ever going to happen.

i am starting to think this is the truth
He has run the team into the ground previously and i do think that his hostility in refusing to play the MLS' game hurts more than helps (much like when those ethnic clubs refused to create one league back in the 70s/80s, im sure someone can clarify that example) and it may very well be his undoing


the thing I dont get is why he would be worried about profit.
i mean, he couldn't have been making a profit over the years.. the tickets were cheap, that crappy stadium couldn't have been making money. But now he's worried about profit? i thought he was growing the game?

then i read the other day he has blocked Quebec City from getting a USL team because he wants to expand the Impact brand all over the province.

Youd think he'd try to encourage rivalry and let people draw their own lines/allegiances (which is what MLSE has been doing), chances are that people in Chouinigan (sp?) dont give a shit about Montreal, much like Montreal doesnt give a shit about Ottawa or Toronto and fair play. Hopefully some sense comes to the man as he really could help that team right now

[drewski]

I don't want to toot our own collective horns but outside of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, I don't think there is any city in Canada that will be able to sell out 16,000 season tickets (easily no less).


agreed. it took the Senators years before they even got an average attendance of 16k. now, Ottawa has grown since then, but but I still don't think they'll get anywhere close to 16k ST at the start. They'll might get there eventually, and with Melynk's deep pockets and love for sports, I think the money & will are there to support the team till enough fans come to make it profitable

[Cashcleaner]

Just wanted to clarify a point here that I think some may be getting confused about.

If an entity such as the Impact is not for profit, that doesn't mean everything is free. Players have to be paid, staff have to be paid, and funds are still accumulated for equipment, maintenance, paying off debts, etc. In the case of the Impact, it just means ownership (ie: Saputo) doesn't get a financial cut from the earnings. Any costs that are involved on his end are paid for, he just doesn't make money personally off it.

[drewski]

Decision expected tomorrow

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=629438&cc=5901