Vancouver in for 2011!!

[SweetOwnGoal]

This is coming from a source I trust and from someone who was involved in getting me DeRo information in Jan (which turned out to be correct).

I know some will dismiss me because of where it’s being published, but...

I trust this info.

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/03/vancouver-and-portland-win-expansion.html

[Corpand]

whoa....

[Daveisonfire]

Another Canadian team :)

[dantdot]

Westcoast maaaaadness.

[nascarguy]

I want to trust this info but thing can change so fast

[flatpicker]

obviously with all the potential cities pulling out, there had to be a Canadian team in the mix.
Just a shame it has to be so far away!
But in a way it's good to spread out the MLS mindset across the country.
If Ottawa ends up being the Canadian team in, then it would be great for our rivalry, but perhaps it would keep the MLS interest too centralised within Ontario.

[NF-FC]

St.Louis offered 9 million? And to think, some St.louis supporters were bashing Saputo for being cheap

[nascarguy]

see look "
MLS is waiting for Portland to give final approval on its stadium plan to make the announcement. That's expected to come March 11. If Portland approves the stadium, the expansion announcement will likely take place March 17 or 18."


what if the deal falls apart and they don't get final approval

[Canary Canuck]

Ives Galarcep is also reporting that sources are telling him Vancouver is the new frontrunner and will likely be announced before the opener in Seattle.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/03/the-new-mls-expansion-frontrunner-vancouver.html

[wzhxvy]

Portland would be an interesting city to visit...

[rocker]

YAHOO!! Come on in Vancouver, so we can kick your ass!

I think they'll do very well in attendance, maybe close to Seattle and TFC.

I also think the Northwest rivalry would be excellent. They love soccer up there and Seattle needs compatriots, since right now they are sorta like on an island by themselves. Their closest rival is double the distance of TFC's closest rival...and TFC has way more other rivals close by too.

I also know that one of Vancouver's owners is a good ol' friend of Garber, so that always made me think they had an extra connection.

As long as we get one Canadian team in during this round of expansion, I'm happy.

[Stouffville_RPB]

2 good markets. With the economy the way it is full credit to Garber at getting the highest asking price from multiple bids. Both cities will be a win.

Next up... Montreal!!! (Suputo willing)

[drewski]

great to have another Canadian team though I wish it was more close bye. just have to wait an extra year i guess :)

[gtaguy]

to deny vancouver a club is just utterly ridiculous.. MLS has to see that the most viable opportunities for this sport in North America is by having more teams in canada..
Is Garber becoming PROTECTIONIST (AMERICA FIRST) MENTALITY..

Im certain that the next favorite for expansion after next year will be miami..

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

MOntreal..have really shit the bed on this one!!! Looks good on them!!.....Suputo and his Im BIGGER THEN YOU WAYS! :)

Good for Vancouver!

[rocker]

MOntreal..have really shit the bed on this one!!! Looks good on them!!.....Suputo and his Im BIGGER THEN YOU WAYS! :)

Good for Vancouver!

wait, I thought Saputo was a BILLIONAIRE! (said in Doctor Evil style) ;)

[ginkster88]

Now I am 100% against East/West separate tables... I'm moving to Vancouver so now I'll have many chances to see TFC throughout the year :)

Also, Miami will never happen as long as the US economy is in the shitter. That was the reason Barca pulled out, and without Barca there is no bid from Miami.

[gtaguy]

MOntreal..have really shit the bed on this one!!! Looks good on them!!.....Suputo and his Im BIGGER THEN YOU WAYS! :)

Good for Vancouver!

Absolutely agree.. Great on them if they are going to be top contenders in USL however is the fan base willing to put up with being (supposedly second division forever) ..
The icing on the cake will be when tfc whips thier asses this year in the Canada Cup.. Might be our first trophy in our young clubs history.. :D

[Rudi]

to deny vancouver a club is just utterly ridiculous.. MLS has to see that the most viable opportunities for this sport in North America is by having more teams in canada..
Is Garber becoming PROTECTIONIST (AMERICA FIRST) MENTALITY..

Im certain that the next favorite for expansion after next year will be miami..
Did you even read the thread? :noidea:

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Did you even read the thread? :noidea:

i thought the same thing.....but i wouldnt give him the satisfaction..of explaing it!:D

[GuelphStorm2007]

If this is true Awesome. Van City has always been a good Soccer town, ditto for Portland. Is Steve Nash involved with Vancouver bid still?.. I still think Montreal will come in by way of Franchise Relocation.

[Daveisonfire]

to deny vancouver a club is just utterly ridiculous.. MLS has to see that the most viable opportunities for this sport in North America is by having more teams in canada..
Is Garber becoming PROTECTIONIST (AMERICA FIRST) MENTALITY..

Im certain that the next favorite for expansion after next year will be miami..

:noidea:

[gtaguy]

Now I am 100% against East/West separate tables... I'm moving to Vancouver so now I'll have many chances to see TFC throughout the year :)

Also, Miami will never happen as long as the US economy is in the shitter. That was the reason Barca pulled out, and without Barca there is no bid from Miami.


I stand to disagree.
I think what claure the bolivian billionaire just wanted was a recognizable name that floridians would accept right from the get go.. I think that miami will eventually get a club as long as the team can sustain itself and no more money is being bleeded out of claure.. He already owns a team in bolivia that is bleeding money out its armpits and naturally becuase he's the one that hold the cash is reluctant to invest into another money losing team.. If this was 2 years ago claure would have probably opted for a mls club instead of a club in his native land that is running him dry.. Like most rich people he like his money to make money ..

[flatpicker]

Miami's getting a team for sure!

[gtaguy]

I still think Montreal will come in by way of Franchise Relocation.


bingo you hit the nail right on the head...

[devioustrevor]

It seems some Miami fans on BigSoccer have the right idea. While many of them are F*ck MLS, F*ck Claure, and such, many of them are now saying that since they aren't getting an MLS time that they have to join the group trying to save Miami FC. Perfect attitude I think.

[flatpicker]

bingo you hit the nail right on the head...


relocated from Miami.
*scratches head*

[gtaguy]

relocated from Miami.
*scratches head*


lol thats perfect.. maybe so.. :noidea:

[BakaGaijin]

wait, I thought Saputo was a BILLIONAIRE! (said in Doctor Evil style) ;)

Do you know that the L'impact are a Non-profit organization? Saputo doesn't own them.

I want to know how a L'impact franchise would work in MLS. I don't think it would because who would invest $40 million in a franchise that you are not allowed to ever pull profits out of? It makes no sense.

Can someone buy a NPO??!?!?! Is that even possible?!?

[gtaguy]

they were founded by the saputo family.. don't know if that means they are owned by them look at the wikipedia on them .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Impact

[rocker]

i just like spouting the "Saputo is a billionaire" line cuz way back when there were 7 candidates, apparently deep pockets mattered. So people framed the expansion debate as "deep pockets wins" and "Saputo is a billionaire, so he will have no problem paying the fee". And then when he refused to pay the full fee, his apologists came out and say "well, the fee is too much, particularly in this economy!". to which I always say.. "but Saputo is a BILLIONAIRE!!!" (with emphasis).. ;)

i think if he went into MLS, he'd just start up a new corporation and everything would be completely separate from the non-profit organization that exists now. maybe that nonprofit would still operate the Attak and other programs.

MLS owners are like franchise operators, and pay percentages of certain revenues to MLS, but they keep the rest and MLS pays the salaries.

[T_Mizz]

Does anyone else realize what this will mean for canadian soccer? Vancouver has 7 players on the Canadian U-20 team we have 2, this is largely due to the commitment they are allowed to have to youth development, however, that is clearly not favoured for MLS franchises so the question is why would they continue to develop such outstanding young talent if they're unable to acquire it?

[BakaGaijin]

i think if he went into MLS, he'd just start up a new corporation and everything would be completely separate from the non-profit organization that exists now. maybe that nonprofit would still operate the Attak and other programs.



That makes sense.........but I wonder how the other partners in the NPO would feel (Government of Quebec and Hydro Quebec)? The government gave the L'impact the land for free, and I am sure Joey's dad got a tax receipt for his donation towards the stadium. I don't think the tax payers would just let them walk away with the stadium with a new corporation.

Perhaps Joey would have to pay for all upgrades to the stadium out of his own pocket, and perhaps the NPO would still own and operate the stadium......which would cut Joey out of a lot of the potential revenue streams.

[Dub Narcotic]

This is coming from a source I trust and from someone who was involved in getting me DeRo information in Jan (which turned out to be correct).

I know some will dismiss me because of where it’s being published, but...

I trust this info.

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/03/vancouver-and-portland-win-expansion.html

Awesome, this is the best possible outcome, in my opinion.

[kodiakTFC]

Although I am sad Montreal wont be included, I am glad that Vancouver got in. Furthermore, I think Portland could be a great addition, I just hope they can average at least 16.5k a game. As long as a team posts up higher attendance than the current league average of 15k, I'll be happy. As for the 2013 round, I still think Ottawa had no shot in hell seeing as how the recession will likely be over, MLS will continue to have grown through it, and many new bids will come up.

[gmacpheetfc]

opens the door for Victoria USL 1 and More Canadian Championship teams with possible Hamilton USL 1 WHOOOOAHHH!

[devioustrevor]

opens the door for Victoria USL 1 and More Canadian Championship teams with possible Hamilton USL 1 WHOOOOAHHH!


That would make 5 high-level Canadian teams. 3 more and we'd have to consider an actual Canadian League. I wonder if being a Canadian League would help or hinder teams though.

8 teams. Double Home-and-Away schedule means 28 games. Add in a Home-and-Away knock-out League Cup (which is how I think Coppa Italia is done) and that means a minimum 30 games (15 home dates) for each team.

Rumours of USL-1 teams for Winnipeg and Halifax would push it really close.

[Cashcleaner]

Vancouver in MLS just makes sense. It's a city with a good track record of soccer support and the numbers keep increasing, and the proposal for having a temporary home at BC Place is more than what other candidate cities could offer in terms of stadia plans. I don't know much about Portland's bid, but hopefully things work out well for them. Of course, the best scenario would be having Montreal in as well, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[rocker]

i just hope Garber announces this soon, cuz he's delayed forever. There can't be much more to wait for really. Vancouver's bid is set now (even if you think the Bc Place thing isn't good), St.Louis is set ('cept for that 'negotiating the entrance fee' rumour...). the Ottawa thing might take months to resolve, given the debate over whether to build a CFL or MLS stadium. And Portland's request to the government should be resolved by next week.

[rocker]

interesting Garber quote

"When you look at the success they have had with the sport, particularly Vancouver and Portland, where they have USL teams that do very well, far better than Miami FC, that ultimately played a role in our whittling-down process," Garber said.

[Chewy Unikronik]

i just hope Garber announces this soon, cuz he's delayed forever. There can't be much more to wait for really. Vancouver's bid is set now (even if you think the Bc Place thing isn't good), St.Louis is set ('cept for that 'negotiating the entrance fee' rumour...). the Ottawa thing might take months to resolve, given the debate over whether to build a CFL or MLS stadium. And Portland's request to the government should be resolved by next week.
I think the delay has a lot to do with all these suckas dropping out!

[GhostPK]

I just hope that MLS soccer fans aren't relying on Van fans for the same support TFC fans show. Currently, it isnt there. Sure all the soccer moms come out to watch the game, but the atmosphere is not and will not be anywhere near BMOs.

If you watch the nutrilite game in van, u can hear the annoucer say something along the lines of "the crowd is really into it today". Im proud to say that was thanks to WCR and the other TFC fans who got into it!

[C.Ronaldo]

porrtland from pics, looks like a wicked city

alot of americans looking for new roots to put down seem to be moving there.


Portland and seatle are alot more canadian like than the rest of the states.

[Lucky Strike]

Vancouver would be a great addition to MLS. Though the only downside of that would be the loss of their excellent residency program because of MLS rules. Though I'm sure there's some way to get around that... Maybe create a farm team or something and transfer the residency program to them with an unwritten understanding that the products will be signed by Vancouver.

[Hitcho]

Agree with all the pro-Vancouver sentiments. I think, eventually, Montreal will come in too, but there's some shit to be vopercome there first. That's gonna be one kick ass rivalry when ti happens though!

My concern with anothe Canadian club coming into MLS is the squeeze on domestic players for TFC. We had this thread a while back I think, but MLS needs to scrap the distinction between US and Canuck players for administrative roster designation purposes only (ie, no impact at all on immigration matters so no favouring of Canuck players over other nations). You still have to get over the same non-US player hurdles to get in and play, but once you're in, US and Canuck players all count as domestic, for both US and Canuck franchises. It will help US teams too, stop us getting arse fucked whenever a good Canuck player becomes available and increase the number of Canuck players in MLS overall, which is good for the CMNT and youth development.

Just my 2c.

[ensco]

interesting Garber quote

"When you look at the success they have had with the sport, particularly Vancouver and Portland, where they have USL teams that do very well, far better than Miami FC, that ultimately played a role in our whittling-down process," Garber said.

Seeing as USL attendance seems all-important all of a sudden, they should revoke Toronto's team because the Lynx were such an atrocious draw

I'm pretty tired of the venom for the Miami bid on this board. What passes for informed opinion on that topic here is a joke. I'll bet most of you have never set foot in South Florida.

The fact that the bid sponsors there don't want to fork over $40 million is not a comment on the viability of Miami as an MLS venue. Same as for Montreal.

I am thrilled for Vancouver. That would be great news.

[S_D]

Agree with all the pro-Vancouver sentiments. I think, eventually, Montreal will come in too, but there's some shit to be vopercome there first. That's gonna be one kick ass rivalry when ti happens though!

My concern with anothe Canadian club coming into MLS is the squeeze on domestic players for TFC. We had this thread a while back I think, but MLS needs to scrap the distinction between US and Canuck players for administrative roster designation purposes only (ie, no impact at all on immigration matters so no favouring of Canuck players over other nations). You still have to get over the same non-US player hurdles to get in and play, but once you're in, US and Canuck players all count as domestic, for both US and Canuck franchises. It will help US teams too, stop us getting arse fucked whenever a good Canuck player becomes available and increase the number of Canuck players in MLS overall, which is good for the CMNT and youth development.

Just my 2c.

I don't think you have to worry about that too much. International spots are tradeable, and I am sure that MLS in all fairness will allow them some roster slots just like they did for TFC.

What will be interesting is who will get dibs on their players in residency. Since the program was running before any MLS entry, I wouldn't be surprised if they negotiate something where the players will be grandfathered in, so any new ones they acquire will be subject to the MLS rules of only signing one a year.

[Hitcho]

^ yes, but the worry for me is thag each Canadian side must have so many Canadian players on its rosters, whatever else they are dealt in interanational spots etc. There are only so many good Canadian players. If Vancouver and any other Canadian team join MLS, then suddenly there's massive pressure on those good players, and it gets worse for every side that joins. SO they either need to reduce the required number for each new Canadian side that enters the league, or scrap any administrative distinction between US and Canadian players. otherwise, the more Canadian teams that join, the more pressure there is on the few good players available (leading to an ass fucking in trades) and the weaker the Canadian teams will become overall by being forced to include sub-standard players from Canada on their rosters just to make up the numbers.

[james]

Portland is the loudest supporters in USL...and be up there with TFC and DC United. If this source is true im happy Portland is in MLS. As for Vancouver....i want them in MLS, i would of just rather they waited till they get some new stadium plans finalized before getting a team. Im worried Vancouver is gonna become like Seattle and never get a SSS built, Montreal would of been my better choice!

[Chevy]

This is coming from a source I trust and from someone who was involved in getting me DeRo information in Jan (which turned out to be correct).

I know some will dismiss me because of where it’s being published, but...

I trust this info.

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/03/vancouver-and-portland-win-expansion.html



I heard the same thing from my source. should be announced later this month before the season starts!!

[rocker]

I'll bet most of you have never set foot in South Florida.

Since apparently you've set foot in South Florida, explain why (in factual terms) Miami is so good.

I'll begin the opposite by noting 1) that Miami has near bottom attendance in every pro sport in the city; and 2) they had no clear plan for an SSS or any real attempt at a future solution.

Nobody is saying support is the one and only reason Miami got knocked out.
If you read the Garber quotes, support was just one element.

I don't see how their unwillingness to fork out the $40million ***is not*** a comment on the viability of the market. If the market was amazing and viable, and the ownership group had the kind of deep pockets MLS wants, then the $40million would not be an issue. The Miami owners would have just written up a check, as Vancouver and Portland say they are willing to do.

[Mikey]

Tangent:

Does that mean Ronnie O will be back in the MLS with Portland?

[ensco]

Since apparently you've set foot in South Florida, explain why (in factual terms) Miami is so good.

I'll begin the opposite by noting 1) that Miami has near bottom attendance in every pro sport in the city; and 2) they had no clear plan for an SSS or any real attempt at a future solution.

Nobody is saying support is the one and only reason Miami got knocked out.
If you read the Garber quotes, support was just one element.

I don't see how their unwillingness to fork out the $40million ***is not*** a comment on the viability of the market. If the market was amazing and viable, and the ownership group had the kind of deep pockets MLS wants, then the $40million would not be an issue. The Miami owners would have just written up a check, as Vancouver and Portland say they are willing to do.

1) Miami is the 7th largest MSA in North America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas
It is far larger than any of the other cities on the original bidder list.

2) South Florida has fabulous demographics in terms of having a natural soccer fan base. Miami and Toronto rank #1 and #1A in terms of percentage of population born outside of the city. Of the 65% of Miami residents that are hispanic, only a little more than half are of Cuban descent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami#Demographics

3) Market cares about soccer. Extensive, virtually daily coverage of European, Latin American leagues, as well as MLS. Drive around Dade and Broward counties and you will see many more soccer fields than baseball diamonds (the opposite is true in the rest of Florida)

4) People often point to problems of other sports teams in Miami as "proof" that Miami won't support pro sports. You say Miami's near the bottom of attendance in every pro sports - that's not true, especially when you factor in stadium location.

Fusion were not a failure. They drew 8,000-10,000 despite having a horrendous owner who screwed the season ticket holders and playing in a high school stadium 30 miles from downtown Miami. Ask yourself how TFC would have done if they had a bankrupt owner and they played in a high school stadium in Newmarket or Oshawa

Panthers drew 14,000-15,000 as a successful expansion team in the Miami Arena but since moving to Sunrise in 1998 (which is at least as far from downtown Miami as Oshawa is from downtown Toronto) attendance has been OK (they report around 15,000 but it's totally inflated, probably closer to 11,000-12,000). Given how bad the team has been on the ice (no playoffs in 9 years), and how remote the stadium is, attendance has actually been OK. The Panthers biggest problem, like most sunbelt hockey teams, is that they get zero TV revenue.
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm

Heat were and are a success. They play in a central location, in downtown Miami, which is important.
http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=MIA&lg=N

Dolphins - perpetual sellouts. No discussion required

Marlins are a failure. I don't like baseball so I'm not expert on this, but the primary reason seems to be ownership problems (they've never spent to keep their winning teams together) and their lack of access to luxury box revenues. They are trying to get a new stadium, with public money, to address this, or they say they'll move. It's not going to happen.
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2009/03/02/daily49.html
Their recent attendance has been atrocious. That team probably should fold/move.

Miami FC are not a success, but neither were the Lynx. Cities this size won't support minor league teams.

So one of the teams is a true "failure". Same as the Grizzlies in Vancouver or the Expos in Montreal. These "failures" don't seem to matter, but the Marlins somehow do.

5) So I assume since the Impact wouldn't pay $40 million, that says to you that Montreal is not an MLS-worthy city?

6) Re the SSS it's a huge issue, it's a big part of why this bid didn't go forward. If that stadium isn't centrally located, it won't work (Chicago and Dallas tell you all you need to know about suburban SSSs). Without public money, there won't be a centrally-located SSS in south Florida. And there's no public money for this now....

[jloome]

I have a tendency to trust this one. It makes sense for a lot of reasons.

One big one that hasn't really been stated before is that the travellin fan base in the Pacific Northwest -- with Portland, Seattle and Vancouver all viably travelling to away games in numbers -- could create some real electricity.

The league is realizing that the gameday and fan culture, as demonstrated here and again in Seattle, are essential to success. They want to emulate the proximity rivalries that have driven the culture in Europe and creating "corridors" instead of spreading teams far and wide makes sense.

It would also make sense then to add Ottawa and/or Montreal and St. Louis in 2013 to recreate the same proximities in the east. It also gives time for the Ottawa Landsdowne/suburbs debate to play out without MLS having to get involved, and for St. Louis to figure out any financial issues.

On top of that, after writing for Ives's blog, I'm sure Duane realizes what it would do to his blog's rep if he were dead wrong on this one. It would be career suicide to pull a Stephen Glass in such a niche atmosphere.

[ccopela]

opens the door for Victoria USL 1 and More Canadian Championship teams with possible Hamilton USL 1 WHOOOOAHHH!

Actually this might close the door for the Victoria USL 1 team. The owners of their current PDL team decided against joining USL 1 because Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver were likely to move to MLS and then they wouldn't have any local rivals. They would be on an island in the pacific northwest (litterally and figuratively). Once all those teams move to MLS it seems unlikely we'll see a USL-1 team in Victoria.

[kodiakTFC]

Heat were and are a success. They play in a central location, in downtown Miami, which is important.
http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=MIA&lg=N

Dolphins - perpetual sellouts. No discussion required



Dolphins
The Dolphins are not a perpetual sellout, they only average 87% capacity which is somewhere around 65k. They are 18th in the league in attendance. I don't actually think this is very important though because typical football and soccer fans are different people, I would really like to see a survey of how many Dolphins fans would care about the MLS expansion.

Heat
15th in the league with near 18k a game. A definite success but again, are these the same people that will flock to MLS games?

I think Miami should get a team if they SSS and it is downtown, otherwise look at other options until 2013ish.

[ensco]

Dolphins
The Dolphins are not a perpetual sellout, they only average 87% capacity which is somewhere around 65k. They are 18th in the league in attendance. I don't actually think this is very important though because typical football and soccer fans are different people, I would really like to see a survey of how many Dolphins fans would care about the MLS expansion.

Heat
15th in the league with near 18k a game. A definite success but again, are these the same people that will flock to MLS games?

I think Miami should get a team if they SSS and it is downtown, otherwise look at other options until 2013ish.

Dolphins didn't sell out coming off a 1-15 season, but they're "successful" by any definition of the word.

Imho, zero overlap between Dolphins fans and MLS fans. Same for the Heat, who have a very different fan base than the Raps do (much higher percentage of caucasian, white collar people in both lower bowl and upper bowl) .

MLS would tap totally distinct fan base, I think.

Agree with your conclusion. If it's more than 15 minutes from the 395 and 95, forget about it

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Does anyone else realize what this will mean for canadian soccer? Vancouver has 7 players on the Canadian U-20 team we have 2, this is largely due to the commitment they are allowed to have to youth development, however, that is clearly not favoured for MLS franchises so the question is why would they continue to develop such outstanding young talent if they're unable to acquire it?

Perhaps Kerfoot will move his USL-1 operation to Victoria when Vancouver starts playing in MLS. Under that arrangement, the Whitecaps can funnel players from their academy to their USL-1 team, and then up to their MLS team.

Okay, maybe the prospect of Vancouver laundering players up to its senior squad is a little out of left field, but I've read stranger rumours.:D

[Cashcleaner]

C'mon ensco, look at the reality we're facing.

If Miami was such a shoe-in for an MLS franchise, the city would either have a team by now or would be having multiple bidders fronting proposals to the league for consideration. The fact of the matter is that the only person with any credible interest for a club in the city was Claure (with backing by Barca) and even if he did stick with the plan, Garber himself expressed apprehension towards the viability of another team in the area. Don't believe me?


"We are convinced Miami is a soccer market but we are not convinced it is an MLS market at this point and for the stability of the league we had to make sure we made a smart decision that didn't come back to haunt us later," he (Garber) said.

"I think someday, when our league is established as the league of all soccer fans in America, Miami will be in our family. But for now we are seeing more support and promise from the other (bidding) cities -- Portland, Vancouver, Ottawa and St. Louis."

"We didn't sense that same local buzz from the soccer community in Miami," he said.

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/03/04/sports/OUKSP-UK-SOCCER-MLS-BARCELONA.php

Personally, I thought Miami was gonna get it up until a few days ago, despite how badly things there could have unfolded. Like the man said, maybe someday Miami will prove itself ready for a club, but not now and probably not before several of the other aforementioned bidders are gven their franchises.

[Nazzer]

"We are convinced Miami is a soccer market but we are not convinced it is an MLS market at this point and for the stability of the league we had to make sure we made a smart decision that didn't come back to haunt us later," he (Garber) said.

"I think someday, when our league is established as the league of all soccer fans in America, Miami will be in our family. But for now we are seeing more support and promise from the other (bidding) cities -- Portland, Vancouver, Ottawa and St. Louis."

"We didn't sense that same local buzz from the soccer community in Miami," he said.

When I read this the first thing I thought was that there was just some spin happening by the MLS front office because they of course don't want to tell you that the reason that MLS Barca pulled out is because they don't beleive the bid is worth the cost of 40 million.

[Luanda]

Actually this might close the door for the Victoria USL 1 team. The owners of their current PDL team decided against joining USL 1 because Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver were likely to move to MLS and then they wouldn't have any local rivals. They would be on an island in the pacific northwest (litterally and figuratively). Once all those teams move to MLS it seems unlikely we'll see a USL-1 team in Victoria.

Does the Puerto Rico (island) team have a "local" rival?

[ensco]

C'mon ensco, look at the reality we're facing.

If Miami was such a shoe-in for an MLS franchise, the city would either have a team by now or would be having multiple bidders fronting proposals to the league for consideration. The fact of the matter is that the only person with any credible interest for a club in the city was Claure (with backing by Barca) and even if he did stick with the plan, Garber himself expressed apprehension towards the viability of another team in the area. Don't believe me?

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/03/04/sports/OUKSP-UK-SOCCER-MLS-BARCELONA.php

Personally, I thought Miami was gonna get it up until a few days ago, despite how badly things there could have unfolded. Like the man said, maybe someday Miami will prove itself ready for a club, but not now and probably not before several of the other aforementioned bidders are gven their franchises.

Cashcleaner, you seriously believe that drivel? Garber now making it up as he goes along. The only criterion is having $40 million.

It was never a "shoe in". If there's no centrally located stadium, I'm glad Barca/Claure pulled out. There's lots of evidence - it won't work there without it.

But it would be a fabulous market, done right.

[dannyd]

I don't understand why people think Vancouver is a good idea? Vancouver is a sleepy town that couldn't even support an NBA team. There is not the same interest in soccer there as in Ontario & Quebec. Plus, they're playing in BC Place. I grew up in Vancouver and lived there until recently, and let me tell you this will be a disaster for the league...

[Yohan]

I don't understand why people think Vancouver is a good idea? Vancouver is a sleepy town that couldn't even support an NBA team. There is not the same interest in soccer there as in Ontario & Quebec. Plus, they're playing in BC Place. I grew up in Vancouver and lived there until recently, and let me tell you this will be a disaster for the league...
demographics differ from city to city...

vancity may be crap for the grizzlies (which contributed to its downfall by sucking the entire time it existed in vancouver), but there may be more people interested in football and whitecaps?

[dannyd]

demographics differ from city to city...

vancity may be crap for the grizzlies (which contributed to its downfall by sucking the entire time it existed in vancouver), but there may be more people interested in football and whitecaps?

Trust me, I lived there for 20 years. There is tons of interest in basketball, no one cares about soccer. When I moved to Ontario I was amazed at how popular soccer was and how knowledgable people were compared to Vancouver.
In a school of 600 students, I had 2 friends that I could talk footy with, we weren't allowed to even mention it around other people. Whitecaps is considered a "huge" crowd if the get 1500 people, it's even worse than the Lynx was.
I just worry that TFC's success is blinding people's judgement into thinking Vancouver is like Toronto. They are almost like two completely different countries. MLS will not succeed in Vancouver.

[ensco]

I don't understand why people think Vancouver is a good idea? Vancouver is a sleepy town that couldn't even support an NBA team. There is not the same interest in soccer there as in Ontario & Quebec. Plus, they're playing in BC Place. I grew up in Vancouver and lived there until recently, and let me tell you this will be a disaster for the league...

I know someone else born and raised in Vancouver who says that BC PLace, even if it's renovated, will never be a success.

[dannyd]

I know someone else born and raised in Vancouver who says that BC PLace, even if it's renovated, will never be a success.

He's right. I don't want to come across as a pessimist, because I actually beleived TFC would be a huge success from the get go, and I was one of the first season ticket holders. I knew this because I could sense the interest in Toronto and it was obvious to me it would be a big hit.

Vancouver is the complete opposite. It's a sleepy, sleepy town and the poeple do not like change or new things. BC place is huge & empty and very quiet (all the noise gets sucked out for some reason). Vancouver will be even more of an embarrasment than Kansas City or NYRB...

[rocker]

the renovations to BC Place are pretty radical though. they are even redoing the structure of the seating to make it closer to the field... and being outdoors should change the vibe.

if they can get nearly 50000 for a meaningless Beckham game, I think they can get 18000 for Whitecraps.

The key thing is to get the team first. Teams survive in this league with 10000-13000 attendance. Vancouver can do that no problem.

Once you get the team, you can work on a new stadium for a long time (look at how long current teams in KC, NY, and DC have been working to get new stadiums built) while still being in the league. And MLS won't contract you at 10000-13000 attendance as long as you have deep pockets and are willing to find a solution.

Vancouver can do that. They aren't the perfect bid in the perfect stadium, but no other expansion team is either, and many ownerships and stadiums already in MLS are imperfect anyways. For Canadian soccer, I say give it a shot. Get in, and see what happens. Can't hurt.

[boban]

I know someone else born and raised in Vancouver who says that BC PLace, even if it's renovated, will never be a success.
What's this person's qualification other than being born there?
Lot's of people talk shit out there mouth.

[boban]

I don't understand why people think Vancouver is a good idea? Vancouver is a sleepy town that couldn't even support an NBA team. There is not the same interest in soccer there as in Ontario & Quebec. Plus, they're playing in BC Place. I grew up in Vancouver and lived there until recently, and let me tell you this will be a disaster for the league...
The people actually supported the grizzlies. It was the management and ownership that fucked that up.

[King Jeff]

"We are convinced Miami is a soccer market but we are not convinced it is an MLS market at this point and for the stability of the league we had to make sure we made a smart decision that didn't come back to haunt us later," he (Garber) said.

"I think someday, when our league is established as the league of all soccer fans in America, Miami will be in our family. But for now we are seeing more support and promise from the other (bidding) cities -- Portland, Vancouver, Ottawa and St. Louis."

"We didn't sense that same local buzz from the soccer community in Miami," he said.


This feels exactly like a Gary Bettman circa 1996 quote. Come up with a whole bunch of b.s. reasons to cover the fact that the only issue is money and the Miami group wouldn't pay it.

While all of Garber's points may have a bit of truth in them, it's almost a given that Miami walked away from this deal and not MLS.

[dannyd]

What's this person's qualification other than being born there?
Lot's of people talk shit out there mouth.

With all due respect, it's not "shit" to say that BC Place is not the best soccer venue. Most people who have watched a sporting event there would agree. If you think Giants stadium is bad, you aint seen nothin yet lol...

Will an MLS team work in Vancouver? Maybe... hopefully... but don't expect it to be anything like TFC.

[ensco]

What's this person's qualification other than being born there?
Lot's of people talk shit out there mouth.

You think people need "qualifications", I think people should use a spell checker.

Looks like we're both out of luck.

[jloome]

You think people need "qualifications", I think people should use a spell checker.

Looks like we're both out of luck.

:p:p:p

[Blizzard]

The people actually supported the grizzlies. It was the management and ownership that fucked that up.

Absolutely true. In the end, owner Michael Heisley didn't even have the ticket phone lines manned so he could blame poor attendance on the city and move the team which is exactly what he did.

[Blizzard]

the renovations to BC Place are pretty radical though. they are even redoing the structure of the seating to make it closer to the field... and being outdoors should change the vibe.

if they can get nearly 50000 for a meaningless Beckham game, I think they can get 18000 for Whitecraps.

The key thing is to get the team first. Teams survive in this league with 10000-13000 attendance. Vancouver can do that no problem.

Once you get the team, you can work on a new stadium for a long time (look at how long current teams in KC, NY, and DC have been working to get new stadiums built) while still being in the league. And MLS won't contract you at 10000-13000 attendance as long as you have deep pockets and are willing to find a solution.

Vancouver can do that. They aren't the perfect bid in the perfect stadium, but no other expansion team is either, and many ownerships and stadiums already in MLS are imperfect anyways. For Canadian soccer, I say give it a shot. Get in, and see what happens. Can't hurt.

While the dome may be a detriment, let's hope that revamped facility will help. Hell, even in 1984 when the Whitecaps played a full year under the bubble, they averaged over 15k.

[Vindaloo]

With all due respect, it's not "shit" to say that BC Place is not the best soccer venue. Most people who have watched a sporting event there would agree. If you think Giants stadium is bad, you aint seen nothin yet lol...

Will an MLS team work in Vancouver? Maybe... hopefully... but don't expect it to be anything like TFC.

Let me guess. You were not old enough to be around when Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland had top-tier, professional, footy teams. There's a big difference between supporting a USL club and a club a step up. Toronto and Seattle's recent season ticket hauls is proof enough. Besides, Whitecap's USL attendance figures are hardly something to complain about. And who had one of the top attendance figures in NASL days? Vancouver and Seattle.

Vancouver has always been a soccer town and it's currently the oldest continuous club in Canada/US. If anyone needs, and deserves a franchise, it's this city.

It's about time the Pacific Northwest gets some respect. It's these 3 clubs that have been successful in USL and have maintained a core fanbase for over 30 years where the rest of North America has failed. Most cities cannot compare to these 3 cities. I think some younger people in Vancouver aren't old enough for one to understand soccer's history in Van and two, people in eastern parts of NA can have a big misunderstanding on how popular the sport is in the PNW.

[Cashcleaner]

It's about time the Pacific Northwest gets some respect. It's these 3 clubs that have been successful in USL and have maintained a core fanbase for over 30 years where the rest of North America has failed. Most cities cannot compare to these 3 cities. I think some younger people in Vancouver aren't old enough for one to understand soccer's history in Van and two, people in eastern parts of NA can have a big misunderstanding on how popular the sport is in the PNW.

Agreed. Baseball in Seattle in on the decline (compare average game attendence of around 28,700 in 2008 to 43,700 in 2002) and basketball is no more aside from Portland (who are also falling behind slightly in terms of attendence compared to the 1990s and early 2000s). Soccer is in a great position to fill the void of summer sports not covered already by the Lions and Seahawks.

[dannyd]

Let me guess. You were not old enough to be around when Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland had top-tier, professional, footy teams. There's a big difference between supporting a USL club and a club a step up. Toronto and Seattle's recent season ticket hauls is proof enough. Besides, Whitecap's USL attendance figures are hardly something to complain about. And who had one of the top attendance figures in NASL days? Vancouver and Seattle.

Vancouver has always been a soccer town and it's currently the oldest continuous club in Canada/US. If anyone needs, and deserves a franchise, it's this city.

It's about time the Pacific Northwest gets some respect. It's these 3 clubs that have been successful in USL and have maintained a core fanbase for over 30 years where the rest of North America has failed. Most cities cannot compare to these 3 cities. I think some younger people in Vancouver aren't old enough for one to understand soccer's history in Van and two, people in eastern parts of NA can have a big misunderstanding on how popular the sport is in the PNW.

You guessed wrong. My dad took me to Whitecaps games in the NASL days, and my neighbour was a famous player on the whitecaps who I won't mention his name out of courtesy (also palace and spurs - anyone take a guess?).
I'm not saying there's no history and they're not deserving, I'm just worried everyone has high expectations of the Vancouver franchise, when it's obvious it will struggle. Remember, New York used to sell out in the NASL hey-days and look at that market now.
Remember, you have an idiot like Bob Lenarduzzi making decisions, no interest in professional soccer, no large immigrant population from soccer countries, no stadium conducive to MLS soccer. IMO this is a big mistake giving a franchise to Vancouver although I hope it works out.

[GhostPK]

You guessed wrong. My dad took me to Whitecaps games in the NASL days, and my neighbour was a famous player on the whitecaps who I won't mention his name out of courtesy (also palace and spurs - anyone take a guess?).
I'm not saying there's no history and they're not deserving, I'm just worried everyone has high expectations of the Vancouver franchise, when it's obvious it will struggle. Remember, New York used to sell out in the NASL hey-days and look at that market now.
Remember, you have an idiot like Bob Lenarduzzi making decisions, no interest in professional soccer, no large immigrant population from soccer countries, no stadium conducive to MLS soccer. IMO this is a big mistake giving a franchise to Vancouver although I hope it works out.

I wouldnt say giving a MLS franchise to Vancouver is a big mistake, although everyone has to understand what the crowd at WhitecRap games is like. No chants, no singing, can't stand. Hell, if it wasnt for West Coast Reds stirring up some rivarly it would have been nothing more then taking the kids to the park for some cotton candy (which was given away after the players boarded the bus). Don't expect too much from these guys just cuz they have a Canadian MLS team.

Oh, and for those of you who need "credentials" I'm a "BCian", still in BC.


- West Coast Reds

[rocker]

it's obvious it will struggle.

they can't do worse than KC, San Jose, Columbus, Dallas, Colorado or Chivas in attendance, I would think.

also, nobody knew TFC fans would be as crazy as they are, so I wouldn't rule out some new supporters groups doing the same for Whitecraps.

[GhostPK]

they can't do worse than KC, San Jose, Columbus, Dallas, Colorado or Chivas in attendance, I would think.

also, nobody knew TFC fans would be as crazy as they are, so I wouldn't rule out some new supporters groups doing the same for Whitecraps.

Yea i guess i forgot to calculate the bandwagon jumpers for this summer. Oh well, we'll just have to SING LOUDER!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Out of the last 4 i guess im not opposed to Vancouver getting in. They do have a history and i believe that having Seattle in will stir up old rivalries. Id prefer the likes of Montreal and I do believe that Portland can support a team (they get huge turn outs for womens national games and really have nothing else going for them from what ive read). Id prefer to see a team in the east as well as one in the west adn to be honest i think Ottawa is a big fail. I guess i wouldnt be opposed to St Louis (id still see it as a western team) but i dont think they have the money for it... I guess itd be dope to see how the Portland-Seattle-Vancouver games would go (makes me think of Middlesborough, Sunderland and Newcastle). I do think the 'rivalry' between Van and TFC are a bit played up. Outside fo being canadian there really isnt much there.

[s2cazz]

Yea i guess i forgot to calculate the bandwagon jumpers for this summer. Oh well, we'll just have to SING LOUDER!
That TFC game ar swanguard was a fucking joke... the 6 TFC fans were louder than everyone else in the damn stadium...all they did was chant "Lets go whitecraps!"... no chants , no tifos nothing...

edit: I forgot that they did throw 3 streamers during a corner kick...it was cute

[james]

i think having a SSS and a good atmosphere right from the get go is a big part of being a success. I think they are expanding MLS to quickly. I dont see what the huge rush is to get all these new teams in the league before they even have stadiums built. I say just let the teams like Portland and Montreal in who got stadiums and tell Vancouver or Miami they can join the league as soon as they get a stadium built. I think its better waitting and doing things right the nrushing into things and running an unsuccessful team.

I think Vancouver can get 20k a game, but i dont think 20k is a good atmosphere in a huge stadium like BC Place. Not having a great atmosphere might make Vancouver lose alot of fans from the start.

[james]

You guessed wrong. My dad took me to Whitecaps games in the NASL days, and my neighbour was a famous player on the whitecaps who I won't mention his name out of courtesy (also palace and spurs - anyone take a guess?).
I'm not saying there's no history and they're not deserving, I'm just worried everyone has high expectations of the Vancouver franchise, when it's obvious it will struggle. Remember, New York used to sell out in the NASL hey-days and look at that market now.
Remember, you have an idiot like Bob Lenarduzzi making decisions, no interest in professional soccer, no large immigrant population from soccer countries, no stadium conducive to MLS soccer. IMO this is a big mistake giving a franchise to Vancouver although I hope it works out.

i think New York will get better attendence in the near future when there new stadium is done being built. Not only is it gorgious looking but its also closer to Manhatten and on a main transit route. As for Vancouver i really think they shouldnt get a team untill they get a SSS built. I think playing in BC Place is gonna be like playing at Giant Stadium like the Red Bulls.

[rocker]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/blogs/2009/03/05/dobson_expansion/

[Keegan]

Remember everyone thought giving a franchise to Toronto was a mistake! Remember Toronto drew a lot less than the Whitecaps do!

95% of TFC fans didnt support the Lynx. There are probably a lot of fans in Vancouver who dont support the Whitecaps but would support MLS.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Remember everyone thought giving a franchise to Toronto was a mistake! Remember Toronto drew a lot less than the Whitecaps do!

95% of TFC fans didnt support the Lynx. There are probably a lot of fans in Vancouver who dont support the Whitecaps but would support MLS.

This is true. Another thing to note is the success of the Seattle bid. Seattle leads MLS in season ticket sales, even though it only averaged 3,400 fans per game in USL-1 last season. Clearly the success of a team in one league does not depend on the success of that team in another league.

[ExiledRed]

Remember everyone thought giving a franchise to Toronto was a mistake! Remember Toronto drew a lot less than the Whitecaps do!

95% of TFC fans didnt support the Lynx. There are probably a lot of fans in Vancouver who dont support the Whitecaps but would support MLS.

about time you wrote something I agree with.

I don't think MLSE took the attitude, "can it work?" but rather the attitude "How do we make this work"

I think this is Melnyk's attitude too, and we need to see more of it.

I believe that handled creatively and intelligently, most large cities in North America could succeed in finding a reasonable soccer market.

[NF-FC]

about time you wrote something I agree with.

I don't think MLSE took the attitude, "can it work?" but rather the attitude "How do we make this work"

I think this is Melnyk's attitude too, and we need to see more of it.

I believe that handled creatively and intelligently, most large cities in North America could succeed in finding a reasonable soccer market.

even Columbus?

[ExiledRed]

even Columbus?

Sure, if handled creatively and intelligently.

[ensco]

I don't think Columbus or Ottawa are "large cities". Columbus is 32nd largest MSA in USA (about 35th in North America). Ottawa would be about 50th in North America.

Plus, and this is important, teams from these types of small cities are often terrible draws in their leagues (excepting their natural regional rivals).

Caveat: US MSAs not exactly comparable to Canadian CMAs.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_metropolitan_areas_in_Cana da

I'm afraid what makes TFC's success is the combo of a big market and the downtown stadium. Seattle is showing you that the SSS is secondary. I feel certain that if they could do it over, the league would have done nothing rather than put the NY, Chicago and LA SSSs in the burbs. Cruise the Fire boards and you'll see plenty of people wishing they were still at Soldier Field.

I'll go further. If the Argos hadn't blown it, and had remained in their partnership with MLSE and the CSA, and had been a part of BMO from the beginning....there'd be some grumbling on these boards, but fundamentally, TFC would be pretty close to what it is with BMO as an SSS.

[RealG-TFC]

^^ You must take in consideration that USA measures their metro areas with a HUUUUUGE area. Make sure to compare the area too.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Great for Portland, :{ Vancouver...better luck in 2013 Ottawa

[ExiledRed]

I don't think Columbus or Ottawa are "large cities". Columbus is 32nd largest MSA in USA (about 35th in North America). Ottawa would be about 50th in North America.

Plus, and this is important, teams from these types of small cities are often terrible draws in their leagues (excepting their natural regional rivals).

Caveat: US MSAs not exactly comparable to Canadian CMAs.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_metropolitan_areas_in_Cana da

I'm afraid what makes TFC's success is the combo of a big market and the downtown stadium. Seattle is showing you that the SSS is secondary. I feel certain that if they could do it over, the league would have done nothing rather than put the NY, Chicago and LA SSSs in the burbs. Cruise the Fire boards and you'll see plenty of people wishing they were still at Soldier Field.

I'll go further. If the Argos hadn't blown it, and had remained in their partnership with MLSE and the CSA, and had been a part of BMO from the beginning....there'd be some grumbling on these boards, but fundamentally, TFC would be pretty close to what it is with BMO as an SSS.

We usually agree, but I'd be willing to bet you that Ottawa could produce a viable market were it granted the team.

[awesometown]

I wouldnt say giving a MLS franchise to Vancouver is a big mistake, although everyone has to understand what the crowd at WhitecRap games is like. No chants, no singing, can't stand. Hell, if it wasnt for West Coast Reds stirring up some rivarly it would have been nothing more then taking the kids to the park for some cotton candy (which was given away after the players boarded the bus). Don't expect too much from these guys just cuz they have a Canadian MLS team.

Oh, and for those of you who need "credentials" I'm a "BCian", still in BC.


- West Coast Reds

You're so fucking ignorant its unbelievable, you should look at some tapes of Lynx games. You honestly think it will be the same atmosphere when the Caps get into MLS?

[ensco]

We usually agree, but I'd be willing to bet you that Ottawa could produce a viable market were it granted the team.

I'd be glad to be wrong.

[FluSH]

This is coming from a source I trust and from someone who was involved in getting me DeRo information in Jan (which turned out to be correct).

I know some will dismiss me because of where it’s being published, but...

I trust this info.

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/03/vancouver-and-portland-win-expansion.html


Portland = yes!

Vancouver = NO!

[TFCAlbertaGirl]

I`d love to have a 80 dollar plane ticket to watch my reds kick some vancouver ass.

[dannyd]

You're so fucking ignorant its unbelievable, you should look at some tapes of Lynx games. You honestly think it will be the same atmosphere when the Caps get into MLS?

In defense to Ghost, have you ever been to Vancouver? I've lived there for 20 years and beleive me when I tell you MLS will not fly there.
I know what you're saying in comparing the Lynx but the difference in Toronto was you still had massive interest in professional soccer like when World cup is on, Euro's etc. that you don't even have in Vancouver. The demographics in Vancouver are mostly Asian and Canadian. Asians don't have a huge interest in soccer and the Canadians there are borderline Xenophobic about soccer.

[rocker]

IAsians don't have a huge interest in soccer

really? soccer is big in asia and the world cup in Korea and Japan was massive.

People used to say the same things about Toronto. Ya, lots of people like soccer here, but people used to say "Torontonians just love the good old teams from the old country, they'll never support a lower quality league in Toronto".
They were proven wrong.

anyhow, MLS doesn't require Vancouver to have TFC-like success. Personally I don't expect Vancouver to succeed like TFC, but they'll do a helluva lot better than Columbass, Kansas Shitty, and Chivass. If we eliminated teams or cities because they couldn't or didn't have TFC's sucess, we wouldn't have a league.

I also think playing in a small stadium outside the main city proper hasn't allow the Whitecraps to prove they can get Montreal-like attendances. When your stadium only seats 5000 and it's not downtown, and in a lesser league, it's hard to build up audiences. People want top level soccer, and they want it in the city. My guess is if they put it in BC place or get that SSS, they'll easily draw 15000 people, which is about MLS average.

[ensco]

I am excited about Vancouver because

(i) I think it is good for TFC
(ii) I have a soft spot for teams with NASL pedigrees/names (if Vancouver and Portland get in, that'll make it three in a row!)

I'm not sure how well they'd do at BC Place, I really think that could hurt it once the novelty wears off...but what the hell, Vancouver can't be worse than Chivas or Columbus

(btw Rocker I bet they'd draw 20,000-25,000 in BC Place in their first year, but that it would start falling after that...and that negative momentum is a killer in terms of perception)

I am not excited about Ottawa. I genuinely believe it would hurt the league. Ottawa won't even help MLS get even a Canadian TV deal, it's just not big enough.

Can you imagine what attendance would be for the Ottawa at Chivas, or Ottawa at Dallas game?

[Lucky Strike]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090307.BCSOCCER07/TPStory/National

According to the Globe and Mail, an announcement will be made soon.

[werewolf]

a report says its confirmed? :lol:

[FluSH]

I can't seem to hate on the whitecap as much... let's just hope they are not the vancouver grizzlies.

[Lucky Strike]

a report says its confirmed? :lol:

Lol, it's of the unofficially official variety.

[Bender]

this is great news!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Nice! Bring'em on!!

[Waggy]

I'm with Flush. I just don't have that hatred for Vancouver, or the Whitecaps. In fact (sacrilige I know), if one other team in the MLS has to win, I hope its them. Good on the ownership, now hopefully the city rallies around the team like we think they will. Can't wait for our chance to whipe the floor with them. Just please, no "naismith cup" stupidity.

[billyfly]

I am pretty sure it will happen too what with this article and what Gerry Dobson said etc.

Prepare to kneel before us in 2011 Whitecaps.

[rocker]

I can't seem to hate on the whitecap as much... let's just hope they are not the vancouver grizzlies.

I hate the Whitecraps... but i want them in the league so we have more canadian rivalries within MLS. I want to kick their asses 2 times in MLS every year, plus 2 times in the Voyageurs Cup :)

I get more up for these games against Canadian teams than for games against KC or other boring American sides.

[loconet]

Anyone more informed about footy/sport history in Vancouver, How likely is this to be a successful franchise?

[Redcoe15]

a report says its confirmed? :lol:
I have no reason to doubt them. The G&M is a national newspaper, and the report comes from its BC bureau reporters, not the sports department. If it came from someplace like MLS Rumours, then I would doubt it.

Congratulations to Vancouver, if its all true. Can't wait to see you on the field so that our boys in red can KICK YOUR FUCKING MISERABLE ASSES ALL OVER THE PITCH, YOU SUNZA...:incazzato:

Why, yes I'm still pissed off at them for last year at the CCL. Why do you ask?

[Oldtimer]

Anyone more informed about footy/sport history in Vancouver, How likely is this to be a successful franchise?

Vancouver was one of the few successful franchises in the NASL (along with Toronto). After the NASL's demise, they continued to have successful professional teams, including Whitecaps 2.0. It's an excellent market, will likely be like Seattle if they run things right.

[Kooper]

If Vancouver comes in to the league and hopefully not Ottawa we will still have a very thin pool of Canadian players from which to draw. The league rules for Canadian content is going to have to be revised. If Ottawa is the other team then we are really screwed: suddenly Adam Braz becomes a top Canadian prospect.

[Dirk Diggler]

If both Vancouver and Portland are granted admission, the northwest rivalry between those two and Seattle will be INTENSE. MLS will be the only professional league that houses all three cities and hopefully that translates well in terms of fan support.

[boban]

If this report is correct and only 1 team will be announced this month, while the announcement for the 2nd team won't be announced next month, then things are looking pretty good for Eugene and Ottawa.

[Keystone FC]

I hate the Whitecraps... but i want them in the league so we have more canadian rivalries within MLS. I want to kick their asses 2 times in MLS every year, plus 2 times in the Voyageurs Cup :)

I wonder if the MLS would just schedule TFC against Vancouver twice in regular season competition but have it count towards the Voyageurs Cup? This would eliminate 2 matches that would be added to an already loaded season. It would also have a double whammy effect in the MLS standings as well.

[Keystone FC]

If Vancouver comes in to the league and hopefully not Ottawa we will still have a very thin pool of Canadian players from which to draw. The league rules for Canadian content is going to have to be revised. If Ottawa is the other team then we are really screwed: suddenly Adam Braz becomes a top Canadian prospect.

I think Vancouver would be more like TFC and draw from talent in the their area along with national prospects. Plus, BC has a very good youth soccer system already in place not to mention that the current Whitecaps have their own youth system. I don't think the drain on talent will be as harsh as it would be if Ottawa got the nod.
But you are right. Garber and the MLS need to address the Canadian talent situation and consider ALL players in North America as local.

[neuf]

I hate the Whitecraps... but i want them in the league so we have more canadian rivalries within MLS. I want to kick their asses 2 times in MLS every year, plus 2 times in the Voyageurs Cup :)

I get more up for these games against Canadian teams than for games against KC or other boring American sides.


I can't seem to hate on the whitecap as much... let's just hope they are not the vancouver grizzlies.

Visit the Southsiders board and see what they say about Toronto. You'll be hating them soon enough.

[Keystone FC]

If both Vancouver and Portland are granted admission, the northwest rivalry between those two and Seattle will be INTENSE. MLS will be the only professional league that houses all three cities and hopefully that translates well in terms of fan support.

Already in place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_Cup

[nascarguy]

see look "
MLS is waiting for Portland to give final approval on its stadium plan to make the announcement. That's expected to come March 11. If Portland approves the stadium, the expansion announcement will likely take place March 17 or 18."


what if the deal falls apart and they don't get final approval
see what did I say mls is going to wait for ottawa

[Kooper]

If they bring in both Portland and Vancouver they must be eliminating the two conferences because otherwise Houston will have to be in the east and they can hardly be considered an Eastern Team.

East
Toronto
Chicago
New York
New England
Philadelphia
Columbus
Kansas City
DC United
Houston

West
Seattle
Vancouver
Portland
San Jose
LA
Chivas
Dallas
Salt Lake
Colorado

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Major_League_Soccer_Map_2008_Season.PNG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer#Teams

[ensco]

Since they probably won't go single table (my preferred solution)....three six team divisions?

East:
New York
New England
Philadelphia
DCU
Toronto
Columbus (which eventually relocates to Montreal!!...;-)

Central:
Chicago
Kansas City
Houston
Dallas
Colorado
Salt Lake

West:
Seattle
Vancouver
Portland
San Jose
LA
Chivas

[GhostPK]

You're so fucking ignorant its unbelievable, you should look at some tapes of Lynx games. You honestly think it will be the same atmosphere when the Caps get into MLS?

Comming from a guy who probably has never set foot in Vancouver. Listen, IM TELLING YOU (specifically) that the "fans" for the whitecraps are on nowhere near the same level as TFC. Say what you want about the league they are in and yadda yadda, but the FACT IS the whitecraps have been around forever, they are well known in the city, and yet people there are more passionate about the BC Lions. Could MLS boost the attendence, sure, but I think having a bigger stadium would be the real cause of an attendance spike.

I've said it before and now I have to say it again. I had a long time whitecrap fan approach me after the game and thank us for trying to raise the atmosphere by putting the whitecrap crowd to shame in chants. He said it helped raise a feeling of rivalry and helped him specifically to draw more interest in the game. He said he thought he was just spending another saturday comming to watch another 'Craps game but ended up being more involved in the game (personally I dont see how, unless me made some comment or something that no one heard and it was out of his comfort zone)

I never said Vancouver was a bad idea, I think its a fine idea, however, TFC cans CANNOT expect the whitecrap fans to share the same enthisuams or support the 'Craps the same way TFC fans support TFC.

Please, before anyone else tries to compare Lynx to the 'Craps, you MUST remember that the Vancouver whitecraps are the ONLY "pro-ish" team in Vancouver. It's not like the league in Ontario where there was the Lynx, Toronto Supra, ect, ect. Theres no N Van, Burnaby, Surrey teams for fan support to split.

Anyways, enough 'Crap talk. TFC!:canada:

[awesometown]

I'm from Vancouver, I'm telling you, just look at the NASL attendance figures, look at the fact Swanguard sells out most of the time, the 48 000 for a FRIENDLY against LA last year. Whitecaps still outdrew the Lynx and the CSL Combined. Whitecaps in the MLS will be a huge success.

Yes the atmosphere at Swanguard sucks my ass but you will see a dramatic change as soon as we're in the MLS and in BC Place and hopefully by 2014-2015 the waterfront stadium.

And for dannyd, were you living in a fucking cave while you lived here??? No interest in soccer? There's too many leagues to fucking count. Have you ever been downtown during a world cup here? And for the asians having no interest in soccer here, that is pure bullshit. The koreans were out in full force on Robson St in 2002, there's an all asian league for fucks sakes and Whitecap Takashi Hirano has his own Japanese cheering section at swanguard.

See ya this summer ghostpk :)

[dannyd]

I'm from Vancouver, I'm telling you, just look at the NASL attendance figures, look at the fact Swanguard sells out most of the time, the 48 000 for a FRIENDLY against LA last year. Whitecaps still outdrew the Lynx and the CSL Combined. Whitecaps in the MLS will be a huge success.

Yes the atmosphere at Swanguard sucks my ass but you will see a dramatic change as soon as we're in the MLS and in BC Place and hopefully by 2014-2015 the waterfront stadium.

And for dannyd, were you living in a fucking cave while you lived here??? No interest in soccer? There's too many leagues to fucking count. Have you ever been downtown during a world cup here? And for the asians having no interest in soccer here, that is pure bullshit. The koreans were out in full force on Robson St in 2002, there's an all asian league for fucks sakes and Whitecap Takashi Hirano has his own Japanese cheering section at swanguard.

See ya this summer ghostpk :)

Theres a difference between driving down Robson street waving a Korean flag cuz ur country's hosting the WORLD CUP and actually giving a shit about soccer. The only large ethnic community there that knows it's soccer is Italians and Iranians.
When does Swanguard ever Sell-out??!! They couldn't even sell out against TFC. And please don't tell me half-filling BC place to see Beckham counts as soccer fans.

Look at New York during NASL days and you think that counts as to how they are now in MLS? you can't compare.

[egoodwin]

if this is the case with Vancouver and Portland, I believe it will be done to leave the door open to Montreal and Miami to be 19 and 20

Though I really doubt they'll have one conference with 2 more teams than another for a few years

[ensco]

Here's the thing about Vancouver, Portland or Ottawa. Because they're all "small", the risk of failure is higher.

Let's say TFC has 100,00 serious fans (this number is a wild-ass guess on my part), of whom 30,000 are season ticket holders, or are on the waiting list.

If those three cities have exactly the same level of success per capita as TFC does, they'll draw not much more than 10,000.

[s2cazz]

Theres a difference between driving down Robson street waving a Korean flag cuz ur country's hosting the WORLD CUP and actually giving a shit about soccer. The only large ethnic community there that knows it's soccer is Italians and Iranians.
When does Swanguard ever Sell-out??!! They couldn't even sell out against TFC. And please don't tell me half-filling BC place to see Beckham counts as soccer fans.

Look at New York during NASL days and you think that counts as to how they are now in MLS? you can't compare.
I have some news for you... Asians love footy... look at the attendance during the world cup in japan and Korea... World Club Cup... and last I checked vancouver has a pretty big asain population. I can't speak for Iranians but as for the Italians, we may love our calcio, but we aren't the only ethic population that does. Its pretty narrow minded to make a comment like that.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

To be honest, I don't know what to expect vis a vis Vancouver's attendance numbers in MLS. On the one hand, football is popular in the northwest. Seattle, Portland and Vancouver are clearly footy markets, so the latter city has that much going it. On the other hand, Vancouver isn't nearly as large as T.O., so the fanbase isn't as big. Vancouver is much larger than Ottawa, though, so Greg Kerfoot might do very well if he finds his MLS niche.

At this point in time, however, I think it's a little premature to guess how successful a Whitecaps MLS team will be at the gate. Until we see some hard numbers - season ticket deposits, the growth in Southsiders' membership - we don't have much to go by with respect to the Whitecaps' popularity.

[Keegan]

Ticket sales have nothing to do with population. It's all about management and public interest.

Look at New York Red Bulls, look at Hoffenheim in Germany.

CONGRATULATIONS VANCOUVER!!

By the way, I think Vancouver has the best kits in North America.

So it is down to Portland and Ottawa!

As I said before it is all about management. Melnyk will not have a failing franchise he is too passionate an owner. Look at the Senators as evidence of that.

[lazlo_80]

Vancouver's academy is arguably one of the best in North America. Look at the number of players on the under 20 roster. when MLS changes their policy towards academy players (hopefully after this season) this might help ease the pressure on the required canadian rule. Also, as we saw this off season I think you'll start to see more and more canadians in mediocre european leagues coming to play in the mls, especially after the salary cap gets bumped up.

[dannyd]

I have some news for you... Asians love footy... look at the attendance during the world cup in japan and Korea... World Club Cup... and last I checked vancouver has a pretty big asain population. I can't speak for Iranians but as for the Italians, we may love our calcio, but we aren't the only ethic population that does. Its pretty narrow minded to make a comment like that.

With all due respect I'm not being narrow minded, I'm just trying to educate people here about what to expect from Vancouver. It should work and hopefully they will have a succesful team. I'm just saying don't expect it to be like TFC or Seattle.
By the way I hold a black belt in Karate and speak Japanese, so I am well aware of Asian culture and understand it's popularity in some asian countries, but this demographic will not support the whitecaps, they will only support their country's teams or if there's a countryman on the whitecaps they will support that player.

[Keegan]

I thought a new thread should be made considering the old one also included Portland who are far from in.

Links:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090307.BCSOCCER07/TPStory/National

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17138510#post17138510

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/03/07/sp-whitecaps-expansion.html

The bid that was never news has jumped to the front. We heard about big names like Miami, New York, Montreal as well as St. Louis hosting the draft and then there was Portland but Vancouver has fulfilled everything since day one

Congrats to their fans! We all know what a thrill it is to have an MLS franchise I was so excited and it will be a painful next couple years wait haha but at least they have a team to watch.

[LucaGol]

Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver will have a really intense rivalry up there.

All seem like solid markets.

[Redcoe15]

With all due respect I'm not being narrow minded, I'm just trying to educate people here about what to expect from Vancouver. It should work and hopefully they will have a succesful team. I'm just saying don't expect it to be like TFC or Seattle.
By the way I hold a black belt in Karate and speak Japanese, so I am well aware of Asian culture and understand it's popularity in some asian countries, but this demographic will not support the whitecaps, they will only support their country's teams or if there's a countryman on the whitecaps they will support that player.
That's what they said about Toronto, when they were awarded a team. :canada:

[CretanBull]

Good, now let's hate them. There's only 1 Canadian team that matters. I hope the league will re-think its rules for Canadian teams having to have domestic players.

[denime]

We can't have 3 threads about MLS in '11,I will merge this thread other two,sorry.

[denime]

Merged :canada:

[Wagner]

My buddies in Van-city say the problem with the Whitecaps is that it's too far from downtown...it's a big pain in the ass to get to a game.

Vancouver loves football...but they aren't tapping into the young urbanite (like TFC did)

[Bender]

hopefully this is true, but I shall wait to celebrate until I see the press conference

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Good, now let's hate them. There's only 1 Canadian team that matters. I hope the league will re-think its rules for Canadian teams having to have domestic players.

I don't. I hope the league will re-think how it deals with academies. We should be allowed to sign as many home-grown prospects as we want!

[nascarguy]

if this is the case with Vancouver and Portland, I believe it will be done to leave the door open to Montreal and Miami to be 19 and 20

Though I really doubt they'll have one conference with 2 more teams than another for a few years

montreal is never getting a mls team if the limpact
are a part of the bid and 40m is just a start i think the price will go up higher after the 2 new teams are named

[lazlo_80]

Living in Vancouver now I have met a lot of people who are psyched for an MLS team that don't follow the Whitecaps in their USL form. I'm not saying it's going to be a guaranteed success, but from an outsider perspective it has alot of elements in place for success.

I really hope BC place gets renovated into a nice soccer venue, if it's not a fun place to watch soccer it might be trouble for the team.

[Pachuco]

So is this official? is Vancouver in?

[Lucky Strike]

So is this official? is Vancouver in?

That's what I want to know. With all these threads merged into one, it's hard to tell what's what. I know I put up the link from the Globe and Mail saying it was a done deal, just not officially announced yet. Has it been officially, officially announced?

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't care how long someone has lived in Vancouver .... if you think that Vancouver isn't suited for MLS than you need to give your head a shake. We're not talking about NFL or MLB here ... Vancouver will be able to handle MLS no problem what so ever. I can almost guarantee that in their first year, they will have an average attendance ranking in top 4th of the league.

Also, why does it matter if Asians follow football or not? That's like someone saying that TFC will be a success because there are a lot of Italians in Toronto and Italians love their football. Sure, TFC is a success but not primarily because of Italians ... the team just needs to attract a lot of fans of the game from every racial background ... the ethnic makeup of a city is largely irrelevant (especially considering that we are talking about Canadian cities here, who are in general extremely diverse in absolute terms).

[drewski]

So is this official? is Vancouver in?


nope.

MLS hasn't announced it so we're still at the all but official point.

[Vancouver MLS]

well not so fast... Lenarduzzi said on 1040 there are still outstanding issues regarding the Academy.

I hope that is not the sticking point that will keep Vancouver out. But it could.

One has to realize...

the MLS has to approve Vancouver...

but Vancouver also has to approve MLS

[Steve]

well not so fast... Lenarduzzi said on 1040 there are still outstanding issues regarding the Academy.

I hope that is not the sticking point that will keep Vancouver out. But it could.

One has to realize...

the MLS has to approve Vancouver...

but Vancouver also has to approve MLS

Oh please please please don't let Lenarduzzi pull a Saputo. MLS doesn't deal well with big egos (thinking they are better than the league). I agree that the academy rules in MLS are ridiculous, but MLS is still the top league in North America, and will remain so. Bob will have to bend now, and hope to enact change from within.

[Vancouver MLS]

Unfortunately it looks like this Academy issue could be a deal breaker.

However, Greg Kerfoot is still the owner, it's his $ 50 million and he has the upper hand.

Lenarduzzi's opinions stop at Kerfoot's front door.

[Cashcleaner]

If they bring in both Portland and Vancouver they must be eliminating the two conferences because otherwise Houston will have to be in the east and they can hardly be considered an Eastern Team.

East
Toronto
Chicago
New York
New England
Philadelphia
Columbus
Kansas City
DC United
Houston

West
Seattle
Vancouver
Portland
San Jose
LA
Chivas
Dallas
Salt Lake
Colorado

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer#Teams

Dude, are you serious? That's almost as bad as suggesting a particular city will or won't get a team based on its geographic position. Listen, the conference divisions aren't written in stone, its pretty much one of the most flexible aspects of the league's operating structure. It doesn't actually take much work to move a team or two around.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Christ, why not just go one table and screw teh conference bit.
Give the Shield to top points (also make a bigger deal out of it) and do a play off format for the top 8 teams with the most points

[Cashcleaner]

^ Give it time, I think that's exactly what will happen.

[Brooker]

because i was raised on hockey, the Supporters Shield is completely irrelevent in my eyes. it's like the president's trophy in hockey. I don't get it.

[Dunkers]

because i was raised on hockey, the Supporters Shield is completely irrelevent in my eyes. it's like the president's trophy in hockey. I don't get it.

Here is what i dont get, the Stanley Cup (even moreso the MLS cup). If you come out with the best winning percentage after an 82 game season (32 for mls) it means nothing, but if you win 16 games out of a possible 28, (3 of 4 for MLS) you are crowned a champion....

North American fans are fickle, and teams would fold if you didnt offer them some shot at the championship long after they proved that they were not the best. So teams that struggle to maintain a spot in the middle of the standings can still hold onto the dream that they will win a championship...and thus fill the stadium and earn revenue

So really the $$$ win, and until passion is greater then $$$. sports teams in america will continue to have fruitless playoffs to crown champions

I would be just as happy to take the supports shield, as i would to win Tiffany`s Cup

[Cashcleaner]

Yeah, I sorta know what you mean. Personally, I'd like to see more emphasis on the Supporters Shield, but it doesn't really fit in well with the current league structure we have now. The MLS Cup is a good competition as is, but I do like the idea of maybe playing it in a format similar to the FA Cup.

Bah! In the end, it's really not that much of a problem. I kinda like the way the playoffs are organised and whatnot.

[Super Cereal]

because i was raised on hockey, the Supporters Shield is completely irrelevent in my eyes. it's like the president's trophy in hockey. I don't get it.

Agreed completely.

[Roogsy]

Both mean something to me and either one in our cabinet would make me happy.

As for the Academy issue and Vancouver, can someone summarize it for me? What's the problem?

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Both mean something to me and either one in our cabinet would make me happy.

As for the Academy issue and Vancouver, can someone summarize it for me? What's the problem?

I haven't read anything offhand, but I do know that Vancouver has one of the best academies in North America. Perhaps the issue lies with MLS' restrictions on academy signings.

[Beach_Red]

Here is what i dont get, the Stanley Cup (even moreso the MLS cup). If you come out with the best winning percentage after an 82 game season (32 for mls) it means nothing, but if you win 16 games out of a possible 28, (3 of 4 for MLS) you are crowned a champion....


No, it's not 16 out of a possble 28 -- it's an elimination tournament.

I think most North American fans would have a very tough time with a trophy presentation to a team if they just lost or tied the game.

With so many pro sports competing for attention in North America, I think it's okay that there is a core of fans who follow the entire season and a larger number of fans who get interested for the playoffs.

[Cashcleaner]

I haven't read anything offhand, but I do know that Vancouver has one of the best academies in North America. Perhaps the issue lies with MLS' restrictions on academy signings.

That's what it sounds like. I don't see it being that big of a deal though, its a fairly minor roster stipulation that the league could easily amend.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Do you know that the L'impact are a Non-profit organization? Saputo doesn't own them.

I want to know how a L'impact franchise would work in MLS. I don't think it would because who would invest $40 million in a franchise that you are not allowed to ever pull profits out of? It makes no sense.

Can someone buy a NPO??!?!?! Is that even possible?!?


Non profit sports franchise...nothing shiffty there is there?? Revenue canada should have a look in on that...but the Impact are no longer
a MLS concern...releocation will no happen, at least in Montreal's favor.
let them stay in the USL..

[Vancouver MLS]

Team 1040 reporting decision Thursday:

http://www.team1040.ca/news/story/?id=1821

[rocker]

Interesting quote on the expansion fee by Garber... Many people have told him to lower the fee, but this makes sense from the eyes of a businessman, beyond just getting more $$$:

"We've got to be careful that we maintain the asset value of our teams, because those values have an impact on the team's ability to finance itself," Garber said. "If we can't get the right price for an investment in the league at this time, then the league would make a decision to postpone the expansion until the economy changes or improves."