View Full Version : Stadium Expansion And a pure supporters section
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-01-2009, 04:49 PM
Ok ok , i know there are alot of Anti scalper threads out there but what if when the stadium is expanded the club can devote an entire end(north) to card carrying supporters? with photo id ect. I would mind scalpers alot more if they were not scalping in the support section , also would all the supporters groups be able to UNITE like every other place in the world .... honestly we are all louder together and the whole stadium can hear us coordinated . Say if the south stand got another level , the north stand got 2 , a roof was put over . then all the TFC supporters could unite in the south and there we go , this whole separate supporters idea is ridiculous. The nee are a pipsqueak up there , the RPB can be heard all over the stadium , u sector are well there and then hundreds of supporters are spread out over the stadium in random seats. Yet all the groups arent coordinated. I purpose making a list of REAL TFC supporters , to see if we could actually fill one stand (ie the south) .
now before everyone starts talking about group identity here remember this is in BEST interest for the club , and if done IT would make bmo a better atmosphere for sure ...:canada:
oh also this isnt some weird RPB takeover post as im not an RPB member , just a passionate TFC supporter~!
BleedRed
03-01-2009, 04:54 PM
Pretty valid points in my opinion...I don't like how MLSE was so uneducated on support for soccer compared to every other sport. They should have thought about what you just said before the first season even started...
gmacpheetfc
03-01-2009, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by gmacpheetfc
What about expansion at BMO filling in the corners and getting rid of the beer garden with some actual seats?
Originally Posted by mlsintoronto
Yes I'd like to expand. No filling in the corners isn't likely, nor is a roof. And the north patio is a nice feature. There isn't enough room there to do anything substantial. Has to do with fire Marshall and traffic flow and emergency planning. And it's a nice place for a pint.
except MLSE like the beer garden......
Jeff s
03-01-2009, 05:02 PM
Man seriously I would love if something like that happened. I agree with all your points. it would be much better if everyone was united instead of spread out. Cant they just place the beer garden somewhere else?
gmacpheetfc
03-01-2009, 05:04 PM
bottom line its not happening ever... best we can hope for is a filled in corner in the south end and maybe an extension to match the size of the east and west stands
flatpicker
03-01-2009, 05:10 PM
nice dream... no go though...
mlsintoronto already said that building on top of the beer garden is not in the plans.
And the roof is not even being considered at this time.
Four 4 Two
03-01-2009, 05:11 PM
Pretty valid points in my opinion...I don't like how MLSE was so uneducated on support for soccer compared to every other sport. They should have thought about what you just said before the first season even started...
They probably did, and thought about what football was like in the US cities in which MLS operates.......SHITE! So why would it be any different here given how many people were die hard supporters of the Blizzard??
There are some valid points there though. The roof over the south end should be the next major expense at BMO after grassing the pitch.
As for uniting all supporters groups???? We are as united as we will ever be in that we all support our Reds unconditionally!!! And most of like to indulge in a little :drinking:every now and then!!!
werewolf
03-01-2009, 05:12 PM
bottom line its not happening ever... best we can hope for is a filled in corner in the south end and maybe an extension to match the size of the east and west stands
That would still be nice enough.
olegunnar
03-01-2009, 05:26 PM
except MLSE like the beer garden......
I believe since MLS pays the salaries they take a chunk of ticket and merch revenue....beer $$ they leave alone which is why the beer garden won't go anywhere.
So eventhough there are all those gates/exits on the east side of the stadium that they stopped using after year 1 and covered with concession stands...they'll still tell us it's a fire issue/emergency exit issue that keeps them from building stands in the north end.
Antoshka
03-01-2009, 05:28 PM
actually, i think the mlse did their research. how could anyone have predicted that there would be such support based on mlb, nba and nhl support in a soccer game????
and im actually a big fan of the beer gardens i think theyre great and i hope they never get rid of them.
Super
03-01-2009, 05:29 PM
All the arguments are there, but I don't think it's in the cards right now. We're still waiting on grass - nevermind a roof. But hopefully we'll get there some day.
loconet
03-01-2009, 05:32 PM
ok but only after I get my season tix...
Nobody knew how well this team was going to be supported.
There was no way to tell. If it could be done all over again, with the knowledge we have now, it would be done differently. We're stuck with the situation we have.
If the unaffiliated and non contributing fans in the South End could be persuaded to vouluntarily move to another part of the stadium, we'd be set, but that will never happen.
Cambridge_Red
03-01-2009, 05:55 PM
No fucking way would I ever want to be in the south end. I'll keep the rest of my comments to myself on this issue..
Laurignano
03-01-2009, 05:58 PM
Now I agree completely. I used to say this a while ago on the old board when I used to post much more often. I just read more from time to time instead of posting.
I think that there realistically should not spread out supporters everywhere. It does not help with the atmosphere. Also, I think that people come just for a party not to actually support the club..people would rather drink, and eat during a game then to join in chanting, and jumping up and down (How can you do that while your hands are full with food or a drink?). If it was up to me, I would have zero drinking and eating in the supporters section (as crazy as that sounds) and have tailgates before the game for people to get a good pre-drink on. This would stop us from throwing beer and food on the field as much as we do, because that could potentially give our club fines and may even ban us from the stadium for one or two matches. Throwing streamers is one thing, but we all know that people in the supporters section unfortunatly decide to throw other things sometimes. The last thing I want is for our club to have to play at home infront of no fans.
I don't know about most of you (but I assume you feel the same way), but I go to TFC games to support them, not to have a party and get wasted.
But anyways, I am looking forward to being in NEE this year (moving from 106) and being able to chant,sing, and jump with a bunch of passionate supporters. I just hope that everyone in my section, and in every other section in the stadium is there to do the same thing.
P.S. When are we going to sing an anthem before the game (lol dont say we already do because the Canadian one doesn't count, I am talking about a TFC anthem?)
RicoSuave44
03-01-2009, 06:07 PM
No fucking way would I ever want to be in the south end. I'll keep the rest of my comments to myself on this issue..
c'mon, do tell.
James Oliphant
03-01-2009, 07:37 PM
I purpose making a list of REAL TFC supporters , to see if we could actually fill one stand (ie the south}
And who exactly gets to define what "REAL TFC supporters" means? You?
james
03-01-2009, 07:49 PM
they could always move the beer garden. Just put it higher up, maybe at the back of one of the stands.
boban
03-01-2009, 07:55 PM
nice dream... no go though...
mlsintoronto already said that building on top of the beer garden is not in the plans.
And the roof is not even being considered at this time.
His word is not the be and end all of what comes out of MLSE.
And his scope is not buildings and infrastructure.
I am not dismissing what he is saying, but it isn't carved in stone either.
BC101
03-01-2009, 08:19 PM
No fucking way would I ever want to be in the south end. I'll keep the rest of my comments to myself on this issue..
LOL what?
Mikey
03-01-2009, 09:26 PM
LOL at the notion that the other 15,500 or so season ticket holders not in a clique are second class citizens not worthy of being "supporters".....
Marco2K
03-01-2009, 09:35 PM
I agree with the orignal post.
Hey Mikey nobody said other fans are second class citizens. He buddy this is not the ACC.
We have to BRING FEAR TO THE OPPENANT!
egoodwin
03-01-2009, 09:44 PM
I am fine in and enjoy 127, our atmosphere, and what we offer for supporting the team.
Cambridge_Red
03-01-2009, 09:55 PM
LOL what?
He is suggesting have all the SG's in the south end I really wouldn't be down with that. We have established something great throughout BMO things will slowly get better with time.
Four 4 Two
03-01-2009, 09:56 PM
One love now kids.....One love...... and it's TFC! Some feel we should throw food at the intruders some feel as though we should treat them like family. I'd like to see a roof and grass! When you get to BMO in a month just be fuckin loud and do whatever makes your experience there fantastic!!! (well, don't piss-off your neighbours, but have fun)
Four 4 Two
03-01-2009, 09:58 PM
He is suggesting have all the SG's in the south end I really wouldn't be down with that. We have established something great throughout BMO things will slowly get better with time.
What's an SG??
GabrielHurl
03-01-2009, 09:59 PM
What's an SG??
Supporters Group
Cambridge_Red
03-01-2009, 10:00 PM
What's an SG??
SG - Supporter's Group
Four 4 Two
03-01-2009, 10:07 PM
Of course it is! Thanks!
No, they should be all ove the stadium. It's unfortunate however when you hit a pocket of supporters in the more expensive seats because they bought late, and everyone around them are sitting on their arses!!
I think having supporters all around the stadium is a good thing.
NEE are far from a pipsqueak group! They started with a few people and grew and got the support of other groups and the front office and worked really hard to get to where they are now. They've got their section designated as a supporters section and they should be loud and proud as ever this season. Don't diss NEE! They do a fantastic job up there in what was sometimes hostile territory in our own stadium.
Roogsy
03-01-2009, 10:19 PM
By the same token...you wouldn't hear a south stand supporter say something like "I wouldn't want to be in the 127". I don't understand why they have to come here and continuously diss what we are doing in the south. The constant digs are getting tiresome.
Mrs. Workie
03-01-2009, 10:20 PM
Come on March 21st!!!
Cambridge_Red
03-01-2009, 10:23 PM
By the same token...you wouldn't near a south stand supporter say something like "I wouldn't want to be in the 127". I don't understand why they have to come here and continuously diss what we are doing in the south. The constant digs are getting tiresome.
We never suggested moving all supporters to the north end on the same note my friend. We're happy where we are and proud of what we have achieved. I think the current setup is the right way its great to see the southend corners (110,119) getting involved this coming season. Things are getting better each season. My intention was not to talk down upon you guys down there..
Bluenose13
03-01-2009, 10:24 PM
By the same token...you wouldn't hear a south stand supporter say something like "I wouldn't want to be in the 127". I don't understand why they have to come here and continuously diss what we are doing in the south. The constant digs are getting tiresome.It's just a matter of respect I guess & you are right it really is uncalled for & doesn't do anyone any good :noidea:
Cambridge_Red
03-01-2009, 10:26 PM
I don't see where I said anything to disrespect anyone in my post..
Bluenose13
03-01-2009, 10:26 PM
We never suggested moving all supporters to the north end on the same note my friend. We're happy where we are and proud of what we have achieved. I think the current setup is the right way its great to see the southend corners (110,119) getting involved this coming season. Things are getting better each season. My intention was not to talk down upon you guys down there..Really.....I suggest you re-read your post or should I say Posts :rolleyes:
Try & find a negative post on this forum from a RPB member about 127 or NEE......They don't happen.
GeorgeB
03-01-2009, 10:28 PM
I don't see where I said anything to disrespect anyone in my post.. dude shut up already.
juicethps
03-01-2009, 10:29 PM
i like both groups n think they both do a great job in there own respect... but rpb and the northend joining together, imo being a nee will never work.. but as far as nee being a pipskeek... haha our actions/ visuals speak for themselves .. so lets all get them big smiles on and lets have a great season ....
cheers
Roogsy
03-01-2009, 10:32 PM
Everyone agrees both groups are putting in the heart and soul into supporting this team. Let's leave it at that and put this thread back on topic.
i like both groups n think they both do a great job in there own respect... but rpb and the northend joining together, imo being a nee will never work.. but as far as nee being a pipskeek... haha our actions/ visuals speak for themselves .. so lets all get them big smiles on and lets have a great season ....
cheers
I don't think anyone's calling for us to join together.
The call was to have all the groups in the same part of the stadium.
I think having support around the stadium is great.
Maybe one day we can have a setup like St. Etienne with their double supporters ends! North and South! Loud as hell!
Carter
03-01-2009, 10:38 PM
By the same token...you wouldn't hear a south stand supporter say something like "I wouldn't want to be in the 127". I don't understand why they have to come here and continuously diss what we are doing in the south. The constant digs are getting tiresome.
I'm an RPB and ill be in 126 this year, Would happily be in 127 rather than with the soccer moms in 126.... still waiting for my seasons in 112.. :p:hump:
Roogsy
03-01-2009, 10:41 PM
I'm an RPB and ill be in 126 this year, Would happily be in 127 rather than with the soccer moms in 126.... still waiting for my seasons in 112.. :p:hump:
I am quite sure the RPBs that managed to score tickets in 127 this year are happy to be in an active section instead of the sleepers they were in before. THAT is what we should be concentrating on. Comparing the North to the South is unproductive and needless. If both ends get their act going, it's good for the team...isn't that the point?
GeorgeB
03-01-2009, 10:41 PM
I don't think anyone's calling for us to join together.
The call was to have all the groups in the same part of the stadium.
I think having support around the stadium is great.
Maybe one day we can have a setup like St. Etienne with their double supporters ends! North and South! Loud as hell! agreed.
juicethps
03-01-2009, 10:43 PM
glad to see some more productive thinking comming outta this tread .. an't wait to cheer the reds on in march...see u all around :)
egoodwin
03-01-2009, 11:11 PM
I wonder if they add a gate 5 at the NW side of the stadium near the stairs where that souvenier stand is, and if they could extend the level area behind the south end seating, possibly they could put the beer garden up there in the south end, and then we can have a north stand, and still satisfy the beer garden demand
billyfly
03-01-2009, 11:13 PM
expansion wont come for awhile I am afraid.
Ok to dream but 5 years out from now and I think we'll be having this discussion unless say TFC win the next 2 MLS cups (there's the dreamer in me...)
I don't think anyone's calling for us to join together.
The call was to have all the groups in the same part of the stadium.
I think having support around the stadium is great.
Maybe one day we can have a setup like St. Etienne with their double supporters ends! North and South! Loud as hell!
Like Jack said, North End and South End would be asesome, give those Crew bitches some hell in stereo! :D
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-01-2009, 11:27 PM
i didnt say nee was a bad group i said you guys were small, and not as loud as the south end combo, look at this guys , when we do chants the whole stadium can hear us loud you guys up there can hear us looud and clear, now, that being said what if EVERYONE in the south end was involved in those chants, the surrounding area would be able to hear us loud and clear , its not that the NEE OR the other supporters spread around the stadium are bad , its that apart it is much quiter than it would be togeather.... Canada game anyone??
p.s the NEE would bring the art of Tifo's to the south end! we would just provide the chants......:canada:
expansion wont come for awhile I am afraid.
Ok to dream but 5 years out from now and I think we'll be having this discussion unless say TFC win the next 2 MLS cups (there's the dreamer in me...)
I agree MLSE doesn't even want to nudge on having grass on the pitch let alone expansion. I'm sure they want to cash in for a few more years before even getting semi serious.
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-01-2009, 11:34 PM
I agree MLSE doesn't even want to nudge on having grass on the pitch let alone expansion. I'm sure they want to cash in for a few more years before even getting semi serious.
its too bad we dont have red bull as a sponsor then eh?
RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
03-01-2009, 11:35 PM
agreed.
whats up GeorgeB!:D
its too bad we dont have red bull as a sponsor then eh?
I know they are even winning F1 races now for.
That and MLSE will always be prudent with their money i
it would be nice having a Stienbrenner or Jones or someone like that owning the team
Dunkers
03-01-2009, 11:42 PM
I agree it would be nice to see all the supporters united in one area (being a ticket holder in 110, i saw the support in that section grow over the past 2 season)
But as for the north end expansion, it cannot be done, the food building is too close and i think it was Paul B who said that fire codes prevent the expanding of the north end.
flatpicker
03-01-2009, 11:44 PM
I think having support around the stadium is great.
Maybe one day we can have a setup like St. Etienne with their double supporters ends! North and South! Loud as hell!
One day... one day...
rYqMVLrsTpw
juicethps
03-02-2009, 12:03 AM
i think that if bmo would just give sg members at dibs on season in the supporter sections u would see alot of improvements there alone, expansions would be nice ... mayby just a second deck over top of the beer garden connecting the east n west top decks together via the northend
graeme117
03-02-2009, 12:05 AM
brain wave i had
what if they took out the accessible seating in the south end, behind the goal, and moved it to the north end, put in six rows of seats and allocated it to the supporters groups
support spreads across the south end (at least helps get scalped seats into the action), beer garden stays, and there is still accessible seating for supporters who need them in a relatively rowdy area
done and done (except for how the supporters groups would allocate the seats)
no second deck, no new stand being constructed, no big intrusion
uncle p
03-02-2009, 12:28 AM
When will people realize, the problem isnt where everyone is sitting, the problem is people singing whatever they want whenever they want. It was said earlier in this thread that the south end is very audible from everywhere in the grounds....Now if we can get all supporters to take their Q from that, all will be well.
NEE is rocking the north end, that will never be in question
We will ALWAYS have scalpers.
And as someone who has watched a few matches from the beer garden, i gotta say i would keep it. Its a good time down there
My .02 cents anyway....
king dave
03-02-2009, 12:32 AM
Fuck off!
KD.
egoodwin
03-02-2009, 12:39 AM
When will people realize, the problem isnt where everyone is sitting, the problem is people singing whatever they want whenever they want. It was said earlier in this thread that the south end is very audible from everywhere in the grounds....Now if we can get all supporters to take their Q from that, all will be well.
NEE is rocking the north end, that will never be in question
We will ALWAYS have scalpers.
And as someone who has watched a few matches from the beer garden, i gotta say i would keep it. Its a good time down there
My .02 cents anyway....
yes south end is audible everywhere, but as has been said many times before, chants aren't held long enough... for other parts of the stadium to join in on one chant, it either has to be a timed chant such as Dichio24, a chant organized by text messages, like some of last year's crossfield massives, or a chant that is held for an extended period of time, long enough for someone to pick up the chant, and then have it spread around their area...
when the above 3 aren't done, you can't blame the pockets of supporters for chanting what they want, when they want... also although it goes against the whole synchronization bit, the small pockets, I believe, provide better opportunity for new chant development, as it's easier to start a chant with say 30 than it is with 2000+, and if that chant is good enough, it will continue to be developed among that group then spread to the other groups on roadtrips if it is good enough, similar to Toronto FC Allez Allez Allez
Marc"2L"
03-02-2009, 12:49 AM
Fuck off!
KD.
Pretty much.
Supporters united for Toronto people.
flatpicker
03-02-2009, 12:57 AM
Supporters united for Toronto people.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/BitchyFlageditsmall.jpg
Cashcleaner
03-02-2009, 01:17 AM
I hate to sound cynical, I really do, but what has TFC done to give us the impression there will ever be any structural changes to BMO Field? Aside from dropping occasional hypotheticals, I've yet to hear of a formal proposal by the club to change anything with the stadium aside from minor renovations and whatnot. I've mentioned it in another thread, but I'll say it again here. I don't believe that as long as the current partnership between the city and MLSE we will be seeing any significant change to BMO Field. That means no roof, no extra seats, and no grass.
Roogsy
03-02-2009, 01:18 AM
Other than the Mayor telling us he is working on getting grass...I'd have to agree with you Cash. In fact...Paul has gone out of his way to remind us that nothing is in the plans at the moment. This is all more fantasy than anything else.
Cashcleaner
03-02-2009, 01:29 AM
^ Yeah, and its a shame really. I don't see support for TFC dropping off in the near future but it could very well start to when people are constantly turned away from the ticket office.
Marc"2L"
03-02-2009, 01:32 AM
Paul said the realistic possibility is 2 more seasons on turf.
1 - Break ground on a new public facility to cover the obligations to BMO field now.
2 - Construction complete, grass installed in the off season due to lack of bubble.
Makes sense. Now it's up to problems getting in the way.
RedWookie
03-02-2009, 01:43 AM
They probably did, and thought about what football was like in the US cities in which MLS operates.......SHITE!
I dont think they thought about how most of TO consists of immigrants from huge soccer nations. OF COURSE soccer would be popular here!
As for upgrades, I wouldn't mind seeing BMO hold about 40-45000 fans. It cant be as big as skydome (rogers center, whatever) or it would lose the soccer feel. in my opinion
Sonny Cheeba
03-02-2009, 01:52 AM
I dont think they thought about how most of TO consists of immigrants from huge soccer nations. OF COURSE soccer would be popular here!
As for upgrades, I wouldn't mind seeing BMO hold about 40-45000 fans. It cant be as big as skydome (rogers center, whatever) or it would lose the soccer feel. in my opinion
well it can be as big as skydome... it's about stadium design, not size.
RedWookie
03-02-2009, 02:03 AM
^
Maybe, but if you had as many seats as skydome I think it would lose the feel of a soccer stadium
Marc"2L"
03-02-2009, 02:04 AM
30 000 for the next few decades. Maybe in our golden years 40 000.
We need to spawn a generation of footie fans.
Jeffro
03-02-2009, 02:44 AM
I dont think they thought about how most of TO consists of immigrants from huge soccer nations. OF COURSE soccer would be popular here!
As for upgrades, I wouldn't mind seeing BMO hold about 40-45000 fans. It cant be as big as skydome (rogers center, whatever) or it would lose the soccer feel. in my opinion
1. 40 or 40.5 thousand is waaaaaaaaay too big, if that happened, be prepared for a LOT of empty seats for a lot of games.
2. Camp Nou in Barcelona seats 98 or 99 thousand, and that is a cathedral of football, and while I haven't been there and only watch games there on tv, I don't think it's lost the football feel.
RedWookie
03-02-2009, 02:45 AM
^
Guess it would only lose its feel if it was turned into a multi-use stadium
Parkdale
03-02-2009, 09:09 AM
as long as everyone is on the same page during the 90minutes, then I'm happy.
drewski
03-02-2009, 09:13 AM
I know they are even winning F1 races now for.
That and MLSE will always be prudent with their money i
it would be nice having a Stienbrenner or Jones or someone like that owning the team
when they feel the price is right (or when enough pensions come due), OTPP will eventually cash out at which point Tannenbaum, a sports fan, is poised to take over.
Lets hope that day comes sooner then later
Workie
03-02-2009, 09:34 AM
He is suggesting have all the SG's in the south end I really wouldn't be down with that. We have established something great throughout BMO things will slowly get better with time.
And thats the Key boys and Girls. If you can't fill the stadium at least make it sound like it's full or nut bars!
The south stand will slowly grow and expand as part timers get fed up or as I noticed last year people that never had sung before started to get involved. The Cappo helped with that.
Its not where you sing from as long as your singing.
When will people realize, the problem isnt where everyone is sitting, the problem is people singing whatever they want whenever they want. It was said earlier in this thread that the south end is very audible from everywhere in the grounds....Now if we can get all supporters to take their Q from that, all will be well.
The south is not 'very audible' from everywhere in the ground. From where I sit (top of 105) we can barely hear you some days. Most of the time I have a hard time picking out what you are singing unless I can recognize the tune.
Some days I can't even do that - likely depends on the atmospheric conditions and how sound is carrying on a given day.
That said, chants are not going to spread across the stadium until, as mentioned earlier, things get better coordinated AND the songs go on way longer. When you folks are singing something that my section can hear/recognize, people try to join in. However, by the time we've picked up on it, you've usually moved on.
Mark in Ottawa
03-02-2009, 11:02 AM
I hate to sound cynical, I really do, but what has TFC done to give us the impression there will ever be any structural changes to BMO Field? Aside from dropping occasional hypotheticals, I've yet to hear of a formal proposal by the club to change anything with the stadium aside from minor renovations and whatnot. I've mentioned it in another thread, but I'll say it again here. I don't believe that as long as the current partnership between the city and MLSE we will be seeing any significant change to BMO Field. That means no roof, no extra seats, and no grass.
Perhaps MLSE is waiting to see if the TFC "fever" and ticket demand is a short term (3-5 year) fad before committing to any requests for stadium upgrades?
They could make upgrades now but if the interest wanes they would end up with empty seats which is never attractive.
Perhaps MLSE is waiting to see if the TFC "fever" and ticket demand is a short term (3-5 year) fad before committing to any requests for stadium upgrades?
They could make upgrades now but if the interest wanes they would end up with empty seats which is never attractive.
Actually, I bet they are waiting for a playoff run. Toronto is a playoff mad city, there should be major increases in media coverage and casual fan interest if that happens. That would be the best time (from a business perspective) to announce expansion.
arbogast
03-02-2009, 12:40 PM
Paul mentioned in his "wating at the airport" thread last week that any expansion will not involve filling in the corners, adding a roof or getting rid of the beer garden in the north end.
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=10143&page=3
nick.mastro
03-02-2009, 04:20 PM
that beer garden is ridiculous... with that gone we could easily fit 10 rows, which would be a new supporters section. and would also make our stadium look better
arbogast
03-02-2009, 04:23 PM
that beer garden is ridiculous... with that gone we could easily fit 10 rows, which would be a new supporters section. and would also make our stadium look better
agreed. but management, unfortunately, see it differently
graeme117
03-02-2009, 05:38 PM
that beer garden is ridiculous... with that gone we could easily fit 10 rows, which would be a new supporters section. and would also make our stadium look better
you could fit in six in the centre of the south end by moving the accessible seating
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-02-2009, 06:47 PM
30 000 for the next few decades. Maybe in our golden years 40 000.
We need to spawn a generation of footie fans.
By then every Toronto Neighbourhood will have its own 10k footie stadium in the Toronto Premier Division ; )
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-02-2009, 06:49 PM
you could fit in six in the centre of the south end by moving the accessible seating
OMG totally agreed on that one, every time i see that .....uh space i think to myself why , dear lord why..... THAT SPACE IS WHY THE CANADA GAME TIFO FAILED!!!!!! why could they have not put accesable seating at field level?? or somewhere else ..... and i dont think seats should be put it just a couple bleacher rows, hell its not like we sit down anyways!:canada:
graeme117
03-02-2009, 07:43 PM
OMG totally agreed on that one, every time i see that .....uh space i think to myself why , dear lord why..... THAT SPACE IS WHY THE CANADA GAME TIFO FAILED!!!!!! why could they have not put accesable seating at field level?? or somewhere else ..... and i dont think seats should be put it just a couple bleacher rows, hell its not like we sit down anyways!:canada:
EXACTLY!
this should be a major priority for all supporters, but meh. pipe dream right... roofs, new stands and 10,000 seat expansions are more important :rolleyes:
it would really unite the entire south end and solve some of our lack of supporters in the stand
Ive always thought that we could to better. What they should do is make the tickets in the South end a general admission, so the supporters could congregate together. Take out the seats and put in bleachers.
loconet
03-02-2009, 09:28 PM
yeh! Remove that space and remove the seats, lower the angle, let the south end unite and work on a "red avalanche" .. :D
/v/VmRwmstVTYw
RedWookie
03-02-2009, 09:33 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_v3608LvceO4/R6eMn8QBZHI/AAAAAAAAADw/3TI4laI3Asc/s400/azteca.gif
Mexico knows how to make soccer stadiums!
(saw my first live game here, Mexico v Guadalajara)
ua-kozak_TFC
03-02-2009, 11:10 PM
Remember me in about a year or so....
After the MLSE sees the record breaking crowds at seatle... they will be scrumbeling to expand the stadium head over heals... I bealieve that seatle will draw HUGE crawds, if they are allowed it could easily reach 35000 seats...
BIG news will come about expansion of stadium next summer...
Cashcleaner
03-03-2009, 01:33 AM
^ I'd like to believe it, but I don't. Not in the foreseeable future. Oh, its entirely possible that Seattle ends up cramming fans into every available seat at Qwest Field for the next five years, but I don't see TFC/MLSE taking the risk to try to emulate that scenario here in town.
boban
03-03-2009, 01:51 AM
^ I'd like to believe it, but I don't. Not in the foreseeable future. Oh, its entirely possible that Seattle ends up cramming fans into every available seat at Qwest Field for the next five years, but I don't see TFC/MLSE taking the risk to try to emulate that scenario here in town.
Where's the risk?
Where's the risk?
The risk is in the actual numbers.
13,000 person waiting list.
Waiting lists only produce 70% buyers at the best of times. By the time they get the call, many have changed their mind, can't afford it, or have secured seats already. They might get 8,000 to buy
TV Numbers are still low. We're doing good if we get 15-20,000 viewers for a game. Of those 15-20,000, most probably aren't in the market for seats.
If we don't have a banner year... If the economy doesn't get better by the end of the season, any plans that may be under consideration will be held for another year.
ua-kozak_TFC
03-03-2009, 07:04 AM
^ I'd like to believe it, but I don't. Not in the foreseeable future. Oh, its entirely possible that Seattle ends up cramming fans into every available seat at Qwest Field for the next five years, but I don't see TFC/MLSE taking the risk to try to emulate that scenario here in town.
I don;t think they are emulating... they just underestimated the market. and 20k stadium is WAY too small. I think if you make it a 30 k stadium it will be just right for now... it;s impossible to get tickets before the game...
The Quest is emulating us... if anything. the difference is that they seem to do it smarter, and although they didn;t have the problem with the stadiumconstruction.
But MLSE and all the directives... all they care about is the green $$$, and yea if and when we get an expanded stadium we will have even bigger problems with scalping... since for them scalpers are part of the market... although they will not tell that to you. But at the end of teh day they dion;t care WHO buys the tickets as lons as the tickets are sold...
I think a supporters ONLY section of the stadium is greatly needed. Not only to deal with the scalpers but to deal with the part time supporters who show up in every colour but red and piss and moan when the get bumped around or someone is shouting in their ear. If you wanted to watch football like a little girl then you shoulda bought seats somewhere else or watched the game from the safety of your colloquialism (the bubble boy bubble) at home. But I'm not in agreement with amalgamating the supporters. I doubt there is a club in the entire world that has only one supporters group. Sure we could all get our shit together and learn to chant the same chants all at once, like every other club's supporters do. But amalgamation isn't the answer to this problem. We need leaders! Someone to stand on the soap box with a drum at the front of the crowd and lead the way! That's how it is done in every other stadium around the world!
ua-kozak_TFC
03-03-2009, 08:31 AM
I think a supporters ONLY section of the stadium is greatly needed. Not only to deal with the scalpers but to deal with the part time supporters who show up in every colour but red and piss and moan when the get bumped around or someone is shouting in their ear. If you wanted to watch football like a little girl then you shoulda bought seats somewhere else or watched the game from the safety of your colloquialism (the bubble boy bubble) at home. But I'm not in agreement with amalgamating the supporters. I doubt there is a club in the entire world that has only one supporters group. Sure we could all get our shit together and learn to chant the same chants all at once, like every other club's supporters do. But amalgamation isn't the answer to this problem. We need leaders! Someone to stand on the soap box with a drum at the front of the crowd and lead the way! That's how it is done in every other stadium around the world!
well I am not sure how are things in europe but i know for sure in South america... that;s the way it is... ONly 1 supporter group.. and NOT 15 ... And not a supporter group for every bunch get together beer buddies who decide to make a supporters group...
I really don;t like this separationism.. it looks more like attention seeking than supporting a soccer club... We all support the same colours and want the best for their team... why make 15 different supporter groups?... BUT it will NEVER happen... people have too big of an EGOs out there for it to happen.
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-03-2009, 08:38 AM
:canada:
Mexico knows how to make soccer stadiums!
(saw my first live game here, America* v Guadalajara)
boban
03-03-2009, 10:00 AM
The risk is in the actual numbers.
13,000 person waiting list.
Waiting lists only produce 70% buyers at the best of times. By the time they get the call, many have changed their mind, can't afford it, or have secured seats already. They might get 8,000 to buy
TV Numbers are still low. We're doing good if we get 15-20,000 viewers for a game. Of those 15-20,000, most probably aren't in the market for seats.
If we don't have a banner year... If the economy doesn't get better by the end of the season, any plans that may be under consideration will be held for another year.
Nice recap of an attempt but your numbers don't make any sense on any level.
Peddie himself said about a year ago that historically a list equals just past 2x the amount of the list. Now fair to say if some does drop off because they changed their mind and we do go by your 8,000 number, that still equals 16,000 tickets sold. To emulate Seattle, which is now 27,000 capacity, would still leave ~ 9,000 potential tickets not realized.
The NSS easily still sells out.
The TV numbers you quote are on The Score (2 or 3 games a year). The real numbers from RSN and CBC lie between 80,000 - 130,000. And I agree that most aren't in the market for seats. But who cares anyway, you are not catering to them. The list is what is important.
Economy won't matter much unless the people stop showing up and stop buying tickets. What matters is that people continue to buy tickets dispite the economy.
Again, risk seems pretty minimal to me.
Steve
03-03-2009, 10:04 AM
that beer garden is ridiculous... with that gone we could easily fit 10 rows, which would be a new supporters section. and would also make our stadium look better
I agree, I can't believe the management loves it so much. You can't sell extra tickets for it, so it just makes the other parts of your stadium seem more empty. Plus there is just something about the psychological effect of being surrounded that you lose when one end is empty.
My proposal is this (that paul already said wouldn't happen). Build a north end stand that mirrors the south end. Fill in the corners in the north end so it looks imposing (and do something about the south east corner, I know you can't fill it in completely, but how about filling it in somewhat to make a tunnel? How high does the access have to be?). In the north end, above the seats, have a large concorse that you turn into a new beer garden. Have it slightly slanted so people can see something. This way they keep the beer garden, but have it raise up so it doesn't interfere with the bowl effect. If you need more seats, build a second level on the south and east side.
There, done, stadium expanded and made to look a little more professional. (a roof would be nice too).
RedWookie
03-04-2009, 12:38 AM
:canada:
thank you :)
I dont think there will be 15 SGs for TFC, from what I read on BMO there is 4 (including us) and thats fine. we could play games like "which SG can "sing" the loudest. Lets just have fun with it.
Laurignano
03-04-2009, 01:35 AM
well I am not sure how are things in europe but i know for sure in South america... that;s the way it is... ONly 1 supporter group.. and NOT 15 ... And not a supporter group for every bunch get together beer buddies who decide to make a supporters group...
I really don;t like this separationism.. it looks more like attention seeking than supporting a soccer club... We all support the same colours and want the best for their team... why make 15 different supporter groups?... BUT it will NEVER happen... people have too big of an EGOs out there for it to happen.
I agree. We dont need different supporters groups. We need one, with a united voice. For those who say we are united, I don't agree completely with you. How come so many times people in the south end everyone is chanting different things?! I give NEE a lot of credit b/c they try to mimic what the south end does, but overall I am extremely disappointed with the simple fact that we cannot all chant and sing together.
Also a little off topic, you know in Italy Lazio's supporters club sells supporter group scarves, shirts, etc. and has taken a lot of heat from other supporter clubs from other teams. That kind of ties in with us, I am curious of how many other supporters clubs in the MLS sell scarves and shirts? Are we the only one?
P.S. I don't care about us selling stuff I think its great, but I just thought of it because of the Lazio example.
Technically, it seems like not only do we support TFC, but we also support our Supporter clubs as well. Its a shame we all dont support the same supporters club.
Cashcleaner
03-04-2009, 02:14 AM
well I am not sure how are things in europe but i know for sure in South america... that;s the way it is... ONly 1 supporter group.. and NOT 15 ... And not a supporter group for every bunch get together beer buddies who decide to make a supporters group...
I really don;t like this separationism.. it looks more like attention seeking than supporting a soccer club... We all support the same colours and want the best for their team... why make 15 different supporter groups?... BUT it will NEVER happen... people have too big of an EGOs out there for it to happen.
Well, I think we can take some of the blame for that. If anything, we started the ball rolling by creating RPB when U-Sector was already up and running. Perhaps that was what opened up the floodgates. Personally, I don't really see anything wrong with multiple support groups, but I agree we'd probably look and sound better on gameday if we were under one collective entity.
dannyd
03-04-2009, 02:11 PM
well I am not sure how are things in europe but i know for sure in South america... that;s the way it is... ONly 1 supporter group.. and NOT 15 ... And not a supporter group for every bunch get together beer buddies who decide to make a supporters group...
I really don;t like this separationism.. it looks more like attention seeking than supporting a soccer club... We all support the same colours and want the best for their team... why make 15 different supporter groups?... BUT it will NEVER happen... people have too big of an EGOs out there for it to happen.
Last I remember, south america doesn't work like that, with the exception of Argentina which works differently due to the voting power of the fans. Most teams from Sao Paolo and Rio have many factions of supporters groups.
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-04-2009, 05:33 PM
Last I remember, south america doesn't work like that, with the exception of Argentina which works differently due to the voting power of the fans. Most teams from Sao Paolo and Rio have many factions of supporters groups.
I wasn't saying that , i personally don't care how many SG's there are but the essence of the existence for these groups is to support THE TEAM and the best way to SUPPORT the TEAM is TOGETHER (in the same area) on game day a united voice is louder and stronger than 10 voices at different times.:drinking:Im not suggesting the unification of the Supporter Groups Im suggesting the UNIFICATION of the supporters. oh and anyone who can hate another tfc supporter more than another teams supporters, they should really do some soul searching ....
Im not a rpb or Nee or usector........im just a tfc supporter :canada:
I wasn't saying that , i personally don't care how many SG's there are but the essence of the existence for these groups is to support THE TEAM and the best way to SUPPORT the TEAM is TOGETHER (in the same area) on game day a united voice is louder and stronger than 10 voices at different times.:drinking:Im not suggesting the unification of the Supporter Groups Im suggesting the UNIFICATION of the supporters. oh and anyone who can hate another tfc supporter more than another teams supporters, they should really do some soul searching ....
Im not a rpb or Nee or usector........im just a tfc supporter :canada:
Thank you!
My feeling is, there are a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds around TFC. There are a lot of different ideas and support models that could be followed. As long as we're working together well in the stadium, what we do outside the stadium doesn't matter. Some people will be in one group, some in another, but in the stands we all support TFC.
I'm a TFC supporter first and foremost. I express that by being RPB.
Section 117
03-04-2009, 07:16 PM
Thank you!
My feeling is, there are a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds around TFC. There are a lot of different ideas and support models that could be followed. As long as we're working together well in the stadium, what we do outside the stadium doesn't matter. Some people will be in one group, some in another, but in the stands we all support TFC.
I'm a TFC supporter first and foremost. I express that by being RPB.
Jack well said :hump: :canada:
ua-kozak_TFC
03-04-2009, 07:29 PM
Last I remember, south america doesn't work like that, with the exception of Argentina which works differently due to the voting power of the fans. Most teams from Sao Paolo and Rio have many factions of supporters groups.
Voting powers is to choose the president of the club... and it;s only to club members.... YOu can be part of "Los Borrachos del Tablon", river plate's supporters club without being a member... and vice versa... But there is only one "official" supporters club.
well I am not sure how are things in europe but i know for sure in South america... that;s the way it is... ONly 1 supporter group.. and NOT 15 ... And not a supporter group for every bunch get together beer buddies who decide to make a supporters group...
I really don;t like this separationism.. it looks more like attention seeking than supporting a soccer club... We all support the same colours and want the best for their team... why make 15 different supporter groups?... BUT it will NEVER happen... people have too big of an EGOs out there for it to happen.
Ok maybe your right about South America, but in England there are like a fuckin million different groups for each club and they manage to get it together every week. So it doesn't matter either way, we just need leaders so we don't sound like a bunch of assholes. I've seen how it goes in the supporters section. RPB starts a chant. Then U-sector starts their own chant. Then you got the people on the edges of 112 and 113 who dont know which way they are fuckin going. Then there are the other assholes down on the far end who God only knows wtf they are saying. Then you got your random assholes who are normally wasted and who no one has ever seen before starting their own and often offensive chants. It's madness! The only reason we can be heard right now in our stadium is because of its size. Could you imagine if they carried on in Premier Leagues the way we do? It would be an absolute disgrace!
At any match you'll hear a couple of chants or more going on at any time around the stadium. It's not like everyone sings in unison all the time. That happens more frequently over there, for sure, but only a few times per match unless the match has really got the support into it.
At any match you'll hear a couple of chants or more going on at any time around the stadium. It's not like everyone sings in unison all the time. That happens more frequently over there, for sure, but only a few times per match unless the match has really got the support into it.
You're right Jack. hahaha That sounded kinda cool, like I was Bruce Willis or some shit for a minute there! lol I just want to go to one game and hear our end as a collective group just one time! I'd give my left nut to make it happen! lol
I_AM_CANADIAN
03-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Ok ok , i know there are alot of Anti scalper threads out there but what if when the stadium is expanded the club can devote an entire end(north) to card carrying supporters? with photo id ect. I would mind scalpers alot more if they were not scalping in the support section , also would all the supporters groups be able to UNITE like every other place in the world .... honestly we are all louder together and the whole stadium can hear us coordinated . Say if the south stand got another level , the north stand got 2 , a roof was put over . then all the TFC supporters could unite in the south and there we go , this whole separate supporters idea is ridiculous. The nee are a pipsqueak up there , the RPB can be heard all over the stadium , u sector are well there and then hundreds of supporters are spread out over the stadium in random seats. Yet all the groups arent coordinated. I purpose making a list of REAL TFC supporters , to see if we could actually fill one stand (ie the south) .
now before everyone starts talking about group identity here remember this is in BEST interest for the club , and if done IT would make bmo a better atmosphere for sure ...:canada:
oh also this isnt some weird RPB takeover post as im not an RPB member , just a passionate TFC supporter~!
Essentially the entire south end is designated as a supporters section. The onus now is on the fans themselves to try to get in there.
I completely agree with what you said about the animosity between groups. I'm a TFC supporter before anything else.
The biggest ground improvement I think we could make is demolishing that stupid beer garden to make way for a real north stand. I hate that damn thing.
boban
03-06-2009, 06:55 PM
Essentially the entire south end is designated as a supporters section. The onus now is on the fans themselves to try to get in there.
I completely agree with what you said about the animosity between groups. I'm a TFC supporter before anything else.
The biggest ground improvement I think we could make is demolishing that stupid beer garden to make way for a real north stand. I hate that damn thing.
I agree with alot your saying here I AM.
Problem is MLSE looks at the profits of today than the long term outlook.
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-30-2009, 11:22 PM
We never suggested moving all supporters to the north end on the same note my friend. We're happy where we are and proud of what we have achieved. I think the current setup is the right way its great to see the southend corners (110,119) getting involved this coming season. Things are getting better each season. My intention was not to talk down upon you guys down there..
honestly to clarify this long beat out thread , i ONLY meant the unification of supporters , wherever it might be in the stadium , there isint a north end ATM so thats why i said south....;)
nascarguy
03-30-2009, 11:30 PM
I am fine in and enjoy 127, our atmosphere, and what we offer for supporting the team.
yeah I like it there better I can not and will not stand or sit in the endzone.
StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
03-30-2009, 11:35 PM
yeah I like it there better I can not and will not stand or sit in the endzone.
Then Change the name to North-East Corner Elite:D
Pookie
03-31-2009, 07:03 AM
The one thing you'd have to reconcile if you wanted to have "real supporters" all over the stadium is the underlying resentment on the part of some "supporters" regarding kids/soccer moms and families attending matches.
More kids play soccer than hockey. Toronto FC can grow if they can ensure future generations of fans. You do that by exposing them to your product.
If someone brings their kids down, they generally know that the south stands are not the prime location for them to be in.
If you spread that out across the stadium, I think you invite a number of issues that nobody really wants.
tfc007
03-31-2009, 09:10 AM
yes I would like to see supporters in both ends of the stadium,this way we can put travelling supporters somewhere in the middle with general public and then we can bombard them from both ends.We can also get rid of the general public and make the whole stadium on giant melting pot of supporters only! You know thats never going to happen! Its good to dream a bit.
nfitz
03-31-2009, 09:50 AM
I don't see any reason that supporters can't mix with families, etc. The only issue I see is projectiles and such ... and quite frankly, I don't want to be hit by beer and such when I'm in the front of the Supporters section by myself - let alone with a kid.
Now, I know there are those of you, who feel that they need to be separated from children, because your going to me impacted by the filthy mouths that they have ... but I'd just learn to tolerate what you hear. :)
Pookie
03-31-2009, 10:15 AM
We can also get rid of the general public and make the whole stadium on giant melting pot of supporters only! You know thats never going to happen! Its good to dream a bit.
Quite frankly, I find the characterization of the "general public" insulting.
What defines a "supporter" and what defines "general public."
My wife is a soccer mom (avid player and fan). My kids come to a few games with us. I coach soccer and brought my team down last year. (U7 at the time).
I rent BMO for practices. I've never missed a game last season despite being stuck on the gold list for 2 years running. We've been to 2 pub crawls (with kids) and purchased GolTV just so we wouldn't miss a match.
Collectively, our family of 5 owns 6 jerseys, 2 rain jackets, 2 warm up long sleeve jersies, 4 different TFC touques (not including the KIA ones), a couple of baseball caps, 3 different scarves, 3 t-shirts and a couple of car flags.
It's fair to say that we support the club financially and vocally.
None of us belong to any "supporter's" club.
Where do we fit in this class system?
nfitz
03-31-2009, 10:21 AM
Where do we fit in this class system?Why, we're the ones buying the expensive tickets, that subsidizes those that sit in the ends! :)
Fear not, when these "supporters" grow up, and discover that they suddenly have children of their own, they'll be in the same boat as us. Hopefully they'll remember to not freak out at other supporters about the language that they are using! :)
Fort York Redcoat
03-31-2009, 10:22 AM
Quite frankly, I find the characterization of the "general public" insulting.
What defines a "supporter" and what defines "general public."
My wife is a soccer mom (avid player and fan). My kids come to a few games with us. I coach soccer and brought my team down last year. (U7 at the time).
I rent BMO for practices. I've never missed a game last season despite being stuck on the gold list for 2 years running. We've been to 2 pub crawls (with kids) and purchased GolTV just so we wouldn't miss a match.
Collectively, our family of 5 owns 6 jerseys, 2 rain jackets, 2 warm up long sleeve jersies, 4 different TFC touques (not including the KIA ones), a couple of baseball caps, 3 different scarves, 3 t-shirts and a couple of car flags.
It's fair to say that we support the club financially and vocally.
None of us belong to any "supporter's" club.
Where do we fit in this class system?
You are a fan. Sounds like a well-off fan. It's been mentioned many times on this board that $$$ does not equal support.
This shouldn't be an insult to you. I (don't want to speak for everyone) refer to supporters as those that act like those you see in the supporter's section.
Pookie
03-31-2009, 10:46 AM
You are a fan. Sounds like a well-off fan. It's been mentioned many times on this board that $$$ does not equal support.
As for $$$, they do indeed equal support. It's $$$ and interest that will result in real grass. It is what results in televised matches. It is what will hopefully drive the acquisition of a DP.
I'm not saying you need to open your wallets but ultimately it is a business and revenue drives it. Toronto FC fans buy the most merchadise per capita out of any Toronto franchise, including the Leafs. There are some definite "supporters" who would fall under the category of "general public"
If the entire stadium were full of $20 seats, you'd have one hell of an atmosphere.
You'd also have one of the least profitable franchises in the MLS. Particularly, in light of the fact we bring in revenue in CDN dollars and pay out in US $. We are already 20% behind before they've counted it.
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