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Keyman
02-24-2009, 08:08 PM
I know this is a difficult question to answer, but does anyone have an educated guess of approx how much cap space we actually have? Even with allocations and salary reductions, our new signigns must must put us close to the limit...

Also, Paul won't answer lol
And I understand why, so I'm coming to you guys!

Nuvinho
02-24-2009, 08:36 PM
I have some numbers, just have to do a few updates.......will post shortly.

Keyman
02-24-2009, 08:46 PM
Cool thanks man

Nuvinho
02-24-2009, 09:00 PM
Having problems uploading a file to here, it says its too big....anyone can help?

ExiledRed
02-24-2009, 09:08 PM
^^What type of file is it?

Nuvinho
02-24-2009, 09:09 PM
20 senior spots:
1 Sutton $158,000.00
2 Edwards $44,750.00
3 Wynne $150,000.00
4 Nana $36,000.00 (senior contract)
5 Velez $60,500.00
6 Serioux $135,000.00 (new contract negogiated?)
7 Brennan $183,250.00
8 Harmse $72,000.00
9 DeRo $450,000.00 (raise as per ives)
10 Robinson $300,000.00 (assuming less money)
11 Guevara $185,750.00
12 Ricketts $213,000.00 (assuming same money)
13 Cronin $70,000.00 (using Chase Myers as a Benchmark)
14 White $70,000.00 (using Chase Myers as a Benchmark)
15 Vitti $350,000.00 (assumed loan amount)
16 Smith $91,000.00 (pro-rated maybe)
17 Dichio $125,000.00 (assuming less money)
18 Barrett $112,500.00 (new contract - estimation)
19
20


4 developmental contracts:
1 Ibbe Does not count
2 Frei Does not count
3 Hall $17,700.00
4 Gala $17,700.00

Total $2,842,500
MLS Salary Cap $2,300,000

Over/Under -$542,150.00

Allocation Money $1,000,000
Traded to Dynamo -$200,000
From LA Galaxy $125,000
From Seattle $100,000
Traded to Dallas -$100,000


Money Left Over $382,850.00

Nuvinho
02-24-2009, 09:11 PM
^^ above numbers are very conservative (I probably overpaid Cronin and White, and underpaid Nana, DeRo, and maybe even Vitti).

So I'd say we have about $300,000 to $400,000 remaining for 2 players.

I have this file in excel and in word, but word file is too big.

Nuvinho
02-24-2009, 09:13 PM
Let me know if I need to change anything?

ginkster88
02-24-2009, 09:15 PM
Wow. Sutton is expensive. I kind of hope Frei can beat him out, and soon. Hopefully a new DC comes at the expense of Velez, then he won't hurt the bottom line too much.

counterattack
02-24-2009, 09:51 PM
[quote=ginkster88;388017]Wow. Sutton is expensive. I kind of hope Frei can beat him out, and soon.

From what I hear, Edwards is playing as well as Frei. Sutton better get back quickly if he wants to keep his job.

Still Kicking
02-24-2009, 10:02 PM
Confused about Nana Attakora's salary. I recall that last year Canadians on the development roster who were also on the Olympic team were paid by the federal athlete support fund. Could this mean that a figure like 36thousand would reflect his total from both TFC and federal sources ?? Has Attakora left behind his playing years for York University ?? It was being on the senior roster for TFC that disqualified Andrea Lombardo from university soccer..

TFC OZZ
02-24-2009, 10:03 PM
Vitti at 350,000?

Ossington Mental Youth
02-24-2009, 10:04 PM
Sutton is not going anywhere, remember how well LA did with inexperienced keepers?
thats not to mention the fact hes a canadian

Nuvinho
02-24-2009, 10:05 PM
Vitti at 350,000?

Didn't really have any info to go by. But figured it probably includes his salary plus loan fee.

Wooster_TFC
02-24-2009, 10:31 PM
Confused about Nana Attakora's salary. I recall that last year Canadians on the development roster who were also on the Olympic team were paid by the federal athlete support fund. Could this mean that a figure like 36thousand would reflect his total from both TFC and federal sources ?? Has Attakora left behind his playing years for York University ?? It was being on the senior roster for TFC that disqualified Andrea Lombardo from university soccer..

The 36k was a guess that that's what he'll make on the senior roster (league minimum I believe?). I believe the issue with York was not Senior roster, but not being amateur status any more. I'm pretty sure Nana is not amateur since he wasn't GA.

poppamidnight
02-24-2009, 10:37 PM
Sutton is not going anywhere, remember how well LA did with inexperienced keepers?
thats not to mention the fact hes a canadian


Man, i just posted in your other post, and we're on total opposites here

That's the stupidest thing to say ever...

If you truely want this team to bring back a championship, you root for the :canada: players, but do not demand :canada:players to be fielded over superior non-:canada: players....

...I no longer want you as a fellow fan,
If your eyes are not on us taking the championship at all costs (including shedding 1 high-priced canadian salary) then piss off

Cuz 2009 is our year!!!!

colman1860
02-24-2009, 10:44 PM
Man, i just posted in your other post, and we're on total opposites here

That's the stupidest thing to say ever...

If you truely want this team to bring back a championship, you root for the :canada: players, but do not demand :canada:players to be fielded over superior non-:canada: players....

...I no longer want you as a fellow fan,
If your eyes are not on us taking the championship at all costs (including shedding 1 high-priced canadian salary) then piss off

Cuz 2009 is our year!!!!

Easy tiger...I think Ossington's Point was that we have no proof that Frei can perform at MLS level, whereas Sutton has shown us that he's consistently around the MLS average for keepers.

I also hate when people go on as though TFC should be Team Canada Lite, but in this case having an experienced Canadian keeper is a useful asset. If Frei proves himself, I wouldn't mind giving up Sutton, but it's not as if he's taking up an international spot.

Bit of an overreaction on the not wanting Ossington as a fellow fan?:noidea:

Keyman
02-24-2009, 10:53 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting your estimates Nuvinho. You're probably correct, or close to correct on most salaries. At least I think you are.

I think that 400,000 is a good chunk of money. It gives us the ability to spend on a CB, plus a DP (at half price) during the summer if the opportunity presents itself. If not, then we just head into the summer with a substantial amount of flexibility, which is always nice. Also, take into account that Velez is probably gone, which gives us close to 500k according to your estimates. Mo has set this team up very well for this year.

As I've always said, In Mo I Trust

jwfm1985
02-24-2009, 11:14 PM
Guys I could be wrong, but I wouldnt assume we have another 400K to spend. Since we are over the salary cap, and assuming we still will be next year, we will still need some allocation to cover the wages in 2010, no? Maybe Mo is betting the cap will increase and this wont matter, but that seems like a bit of a gamble.

Nuvinho
02-24-2009, 11:15 PM
^^

I agree, I think we are probably at $300K or less in allocation money. I figure I have underestimated a few salaries, etc.

BuSaPuNk
02-24-2009, 11:28 PM
I think Mo has done a great job and even if we need to get some more allocation money for the cap next year, I know Mo can get it done. We have some players that if they don't perform this year we can deal for allocation. If the cap changes then Mo looks like a wizard. That is a wait and see issue. In Mo We Trust!

S_D
02-24-2009, 11:32 PM
Guys I could be wrong, but I wouldnt assume we have another 400K to spend. Since we are over the salary cap, and assuming we still will be next year, we will still need some allocation to cover the wages in 2010, no? Maybe Mo is betting the cap will increase and this wont matter, but that seems like a bit of a gamble.

I mentioned this elsewhere today (can't remember where lol it has been a busy day) don't forget if Vitti works out and TFC wants to pay for his transfer, the transfer fee counts against the cap even if it is paid down by allocation cash.

BakaGaijin
02-24-2009, 11:47 PM
Guys I could be wrong, but I wouldnt assume we have another 400K to spend. Since we are over the salary cap, and assuming we still will be next year, we will still need some allocation to cover the wages in 2010, no? Maybe Mo is betting the cap will increase and this wont matter, but that seems like a bit of a gamble.

The CBA expires after this season. Who knows what it will look like next year........probably higher salary caps in my opinion.........so not a bad gamble spending all of the allocation this year.

I'm sure it's entirely possible that the allocation system could be negotiated out of the CBA entirely..........

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 12:01 AM
Man, i just posted in your other post, and we're on total opposites here

That's the stupidest thing to say ever...

If you truely want this team to bring back a championship, you root for the :canada: players, but do not demand :canada:players to be fielded over superior non-:canada: players....

...I no longer want you as a fellow fan,
If your eyes are not on us taking the championship at all costs (including shedding 1 high-priced canadian salary) then piss off

Cuz 2009 is our year!!!!

HAHAHAHA
i wasnt aware you were in charge of things.
thanks for letting me know where i stand and what my opinion is (apparently i didnt knwo what it was until now IE that i didnt want TFC to go to the playoffs)

dream on dreamer

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 12:12 AM
also in hind sight, thanks for informing us that Frei is a better player than Sutton (im assuming you have seen him play first hand and you are not basing this off what youve read on forums and websites)

ExiledRed
02-25-2009, 12:46 AM
I believe Robbo took a paycut didn't he?

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 01:24 AM
he did indeed, i might be wrong Dichio did too, both those guys were making well over 120k

ExiledRed
02-25-2009, 01:31 AM
Robbo was making $300,000 - $325,000 if I remember.

If the pay cut was designed to be helpful he should have gone down to at least $250,000.

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 01:47 AM
its been estimated that we've got in and around 400-500k still in allocation money, so to be honest, money isnt really too much of an issue... especially as we've only got a few slots we can fill (if we keep our current roster, if we shed a player or two we will have more money and more room)

ExiledRed
02-25-2009, 01:57 AM
What does this mean for the 2010 season anyway? We only have this allocation for so long, and then we're considerably over cap.

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 01:58 AM
yeah thats a good question, im sure some of it is gone by then but dont forget that the CBA is up for discussion and that the cap will surely be an issue, im sure Mojo has it sorted.

Nuvinho
02-25-2009, 07:43 AM
Dichio and Robinson's pay cuts have been included in the estimation. I figured they would take a $25K to $30K pay cut, don't know if I am over-estimating it tho. Just remember, that the numbers I provided are a mix of last year's salaries, with a few estimations.

ensco
02-25-2009, 07:55 AM
Robbo may make a little less than you are showing, but I'd wager we have less to spend than you show.

1) I'm pretty certain DeRo is getting allocation dollars above $400K (same as Schelloto got before he became a DP).

2) I'll bet Serioux got a raise as part of his deal to TFC.

3) I think Barrett will make more than 91K

Nice work, btw

James Oliphant
02-25-2009, 08:13 AM
1) I'm pretty certain DeRo is getting allocation dollars above $400K (same as Schelloto got before he became a DP).

Well, it's not like he had far to go to get there... ;)


2) I'll bet Serioux got a raise as part of his deal to TFC.He was already under contract. For him to get a raise, there'd have to be a renegotiation/extension, like with De Ro. Since we haven't heard of any such thing yet, I'm going to say this hasn't happened.


3) I think Barrett will make more than 91KPossibly, but we do have him locked down for 4 years (http://www.gotorontofc.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=794). This is a question that will be answered in April, most likely, when the Players Union releases its salary info update.

Nuvinho
02-25-2009, 10:23 AM
anyone want to add to what they think certain players salaries should be? I too think we don't have around $400K left, something more probably went to DeRo and others.

btw, $50K was the allocation money for Serioux.

ensco
02-25-2009, 10:24 AM
He was already under contract. For him to get a raise, there'd have to be a renegotiation/extension, like with De Ro. Since we haven't heard of any such thing yet, I'm going to say this hasn't happened.


I hear you re the existing contract, but because there's no love lost between Mo and Serioux (read between the lines in Nigel's piece today and you'll see it plain as day), I'm guessing Serioux would want to negotiate before coming in.

As you say, we won't know for a while, but i'm guessing both Dallas' asking price, and whatever Serioux wanted, were both on the table, and Mo may not have liked it but decided he couldn't risk waiting. Since Marshall made $150K, I'd bet Serioux's going to get at least that.

We'll see.

denime
02-25-2009, 10:51 AM
Dwayne De Rosario, who was acquired from Houston in exchange for allocation money, "more than $200,000" according to a source. TFC is thought to have sent $125,000 to FCD in the Serioux deal.

Read More (http://www.socceramerica.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=31206)

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 11:00 AM
i dunno bout that soccer america.
having never heard of them i prefer to live in possible denial and believe Ives

poppamidnight
02-25-2009, 11:17 AM
HAHAHAHA
i wasnt aware you were in charge of things.
thanks for letting me know where i stand and what my opinion is (apparently i didnt knwo what it was until now IE that i didnt want TFC to go to the playoffs)

dream on dreamer

no, heres your opinion:

Sutton is not going anywhere, remember how well LA did with inexperienced keepers?
thats not to mention the fact hes a canadian

Canadian = nothing to do w/ it anymore.

We're concerned w/ the BEST POSSIBLE PLAYERS now,
I understand your first point of inexperienced players, but you don't need to add the second point

We've got loads of canadians - ones better than Sutton! - Canadian or not no longer should be in Mos decision as to whether a player shall be unloaded or not....

As for your inexperienced point,
I counter with the argument:
What good is a player who brainfarts?

Sutton's made some gamesavers (*note - early season)
He's also made as many gameblunders (*note - mid-late season)

I think we can all agree Sutton was one of the top players at the start of last year but did not maintain the pace, and definately dropped off,

So what good is a 'early-season' player?
...Correct me if im wrong, but playoffs are at the end of the season?


Don't get me wrong, im not saying i wouldnt mind keeping sutton as a goalie, but come 4 games into the season, if Frei is still maintaing pace and pushing Sutton -
I'm all for driving Greg to the airport if it means giving us capspace to fill our holes (CB + Depth for National Team players callups)

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 11:35 AM
Its not an opinion that hes a canadian, its a fact, just like its a fact that a canadian player with talent is more likely to be of value than an international player. Sutton has a talent, the varying degree of that talent is an opinion. If he had no talent, he would not be playing professionally.

We are concerned with the best players now but that doesnt give us a pass as far as international slots are concerned, fact of the matter is that we have a certain amount of slots for international players and some of those slots are going to expire in the next season or two. Thats not to mention the fact that we truly dont know that Edwards and Frei ARE the best possible players. Edwards played a few games last season and Frei has played 0 in the MLS. Its all simply speculation based on preseason games and NCAA career. If Frei turns out to be a better player throughout the season, sure give him the position but to force Sutton out now (which is being suggested) does not make any sense.

Im simply suggesting a) that its not necessary to ship him out to fill our holes, b) they are not going to ship him out because hes an experienced canadian keeper and the other two players are inexperienced american keepers. Yes they may have promise but that promise does not mean they can fulfill the demands that are currently being made. No amount of potential can prepare a player for their first season 100%.

TFC Via Buffalo
02-25-2009, 12:09 PM
Its not an opinion that hes a canadian, its a fact, just like its a fact that a canadian player with talent is more likely to be of value than an international player. Sutton has a talent, the varying degree of that talent is an opinion. If he had no talent, he would not be playing professionally.

We are concerned with the best players now but that doesnt give us a pass as far as international slots are concerned, fact of the matter is that we have a certain amount of slots for international players and some of those slots are going to expire in the next season or two. Thats not to mention the fact that we truly dont know that Edwards and Frei ARE the best possible players. Edwards played a few games last season and Frei has played 0 in the MLS. Its all simply speculation based on preseason games and NCAA career. If Frei turns out to be a better player throughout the season, sure give him the position but to force Sutton out now (which is being suggested) does not make any sense.

Im simply suggesting a) that its not necessary to ship him out to fill our holes, b) they are not going to ship him out because hes an experienced canadian keeper and the other two players are inexperienced american keepers. Yes they may have promise but that promise does not mean they can fulfill the demands that are currently being made. No amount of potential can prepare a player for their first season 100%.

This is why there should be a Can/Am designation for players if they want to keep the Domestic/International rules. To be forced to carry potentially worse players(And I'm not saying ANYTHING about Sutton or the other Canadians here. i'm stating a point) because they are Canadian, while the US teams can get from a deeper talent pool, is unfair. If your 5th best domestic player on TFC would be maybe the 18th best player on, say Chivas, that is garbage and I think the rules should change, especially with the possibility of Van and Mon coming into the league. I understand the desire to showcase home country players on the home country teams, but it backs us into a corner.

Ossington Mental Youth
02-25-2009, 12:11 PM
apparently its supposed to change as teh schools pump out more players.
Ideally the CBA will allow for teams to sign more of those players as well as allow for a reserve league for them to play in.
Fingers crossed cuz right now its all backwards

Nuvinho
02-25-2009, 12:16 PM
allocation money is confusing - I thought that minor allocation was $75K and the major allocation is $125K (the most a team can send in allocation).

Nuvinho
03-01-2009, 09:08 AM
I have made some more updates:

1. increased Serioux salary (assumed he signed a new contract)
2. increased DeRo's salary
3. increased Barrett's salary
4. increased the amount paid to the Dynamo (DeRo) and Dallas (Serioux).

any other info you have, let me know, i'll update the file.

wzhxvy
03-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Good stuff Nuvinho...I think you are very close...

FluSH
03-01-2009, 09:23 AM
anyone want to add to what they think certain players salaries should be? I too think we don't have around $400K left, something more probably went to DeRo and others.

btw, $50K was the allocation money for Serioux.

great work btw... only other people that I know can shed some light are the professor and BBTB

nick.mastro
03-01-2009, 12:59 PM
why would Cronin and especially white who is injured, get 70 grand

Nuvinho
03-01-2009, 01:18 PM
why would Cronin and especially white who is injured, get 70 grand

as it says, based on last year's rookie class salaries.

MartinUtd
03-01-2009, 01:27 PM
Nice breakdown. It's hard to believe you kept tabs after all thats been going on. One thing, I thought league max was $400k and not $450... DeRo was making something like $325 last year so I figured his raise would take him up to the 400 mark.

Nuvinho
03-01-2009, 01:32 PM
What I used was based on last year's salary, except for the players who re-signed. As well, for players who have been traded to us, I figured they negogiated another contract.

With DeRo, I put him higher than $400K, because there has been some rumblings that he is getting DP money, but not considered a DP, since the allocation money brings it under $400K.

ensco
03-01-2009, 01:34 PM
I think that's as good an estimate as can be made

biggest unknown variable is the allocation money

Nuvinho
03-01-2009, 01:38 PM
^^ and I understand's Paul's view on not letting people know the allocation that is still available. Since both teams they intend to trade with, and players who they are looking to sign, can use the amount they have left as a bargaining ploy.

MartinUtd
03-01-2009, 01:43 PM
Here's the post from Ives


DeRosario has agreed to a new long-term contract that should keep the Scarborough native with Toronto FC for the rest of his career, sources told SBI on Monday. He will not take up the club's Designated Player slot but is expected to earn the highest possible non-DP salary, between $350,000 and $400,000 a year.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/01/tfc-to-introduce-derosario-on-thursday.html#more

rocker
03-01-2009, 01:50 PM
^^ and I understand's Paul's view on not letting people know the allocation that is still available. Since both teams they intend to trade with, and players who they are looking to sign, can use the amount they have left as a bargaining ploy.

I understand the need to hide this from agents and players, but i'd like know what #'s the clubs have. MLS surely makes available the #s that all clubs have available to them.. they make available the allocation positions, for example, and teams know what allocations are given for finishing last and stuff.

james
03-01-2009, 07:54 PM
Robinson and Rickets are over paid of thats what they make compared to some of the other players!

Shakes McQueen
03-01-2009, 08:13 PM
We've got loads of canadians - ones better than Sutton! - Canadian or not no longer should be in Mos decision as to whether a player shall be unloaded or not....

What are you talking about? Whether a player is Canadian or not, is incredibly relevant to who we sign.

We have a finite number of international roster slots, and an infinite number of domestic ones, hence keeping Sutton, and either Frei or Edwards, makes more sense than keeping Frei/Edwards, just because you think both might be slightly better than Sutton.

Edwards is a mostly unproven commodity as a starting keeper, and Frei is a completely unproven one. Sutton has years of experience, and while he has made mistakes, he has also saved our ass on many occasions.

Keeping Sutton, and shedding one of our international GK's, frees up Mo to use that slot on another position.

Until there are no domestic roster restrictions, nationality will always be a very important factor in determining who we sign, and who we trade.

- Scott