Today’s News, Tuesday , Feb.24

[denime]

Mornin'


TFC get victory against Hacken
Robinson, Vitti, De Rosario score for Reds

Toronto FC scored three goals in 10 minutes to beat Swedish Premier Division team BK Hacken in preseason action in Sunrise, Florida on Monday afternoon. Carl Robinson, Pablo Vitti and Dwayne De Rosario scored the goals.

Read More (http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090223&content_id=219497&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)



Reds duo gets Canada call
Attakora-Gyan and Gala called up

Toronto FC youngsters Nana Attakora-Gyan and Gabe Gala have been named in the Canada U-20 squad for the final training camp ahead of next month's CONCACAF U-20 Championship in Trinidad and Tobago. They will join up with the Canada squad in Florida later this week.

Read More (http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090223&content_id=219504&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)



Toronto FC defender highlights Canadian U-20 roster

Defender Nana Attakora-Gyan was one of 20 players named to the Canadian men's youth team on Monday for the upcoming CONCACAF U-20 Championship in Trinidad & Tobago. Also included on the Canadian roster was Toronto FC's Gabe Gala, Vancouver Whitecaps forward Marcus Haber, and defender Alex Surprenant of the Montreal Impact.
The Canadian team will train this week in Florida before heading off to Trinidad & Tobago on March 4.
"The final camp has arrived, and we are going to use it for fine tuning," Canadian coach Tony Fonseca said. "We are aware of the difficulties of the competition. The opponents are very strong and we know that there is no room for mistakes."

Read More (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/02/23/canada-under-20.html)


Let's get Serioux
Gerry Dobson

There hasn't been much player movement with Toronto FC lately.

The big rumour is that the Reds have picked up Canadian International Adrian Serioux and that he could be training with the team as early as Tuesday.

There's one centre back problem solved.

Mo Johnston's cell phone was glued to his ear all day and it appears as though the hunt for another one is nearly complete.

Portuguese defender Miguel Garcia is in camp and lined up at right back as Toronto FC demolished Swedish first division side Hacken 3-0 Monday afternoon.

Read More (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/blogs/2009/02/23/dobson_tfc/)



Academy Juniors tie OSA
Naalband scores for TFC from penalty spot

Toronto FC Academy's Junior Team tied 1-1 with the Ontario Soccer Association Provincial U-16 Program at BMO Field on Sunday afternoon. The match was the second of three against the OSA, and the Junior Academy demonstrated a much better performance than in the previous game, showing an increased desire to compete and play to their potential.

Read More (http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090223&content_id=219304&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

COED (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/miss-coed/)

[scooter]

mornin d

[TicTacTabarnack]

Mornin' D!



TFC get victory against Hacken
Robinson, Vitti, De Rosario score for Reds

Toronto FC scored three goals in 10 minutes to beat Swedish Premier Division team BK Hacken in preseason action in Sunrise, Florida on Monday afternoon. Carl Robinson, Pablo Vitti and Dwayne De Rosario scored the goals.
Read More (http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090223&content_id=219497&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)


Boy do I like the sound of a 3-1 win and the possibility of scoring Serioux at Centre Back ... Things are looking up this year!

[Steve]

Mornin' D!



Boy do I like the sound of a 3-1 win and the possibility of scoring Serioux at Centre Back ... Things are looking up this year!

3-0 actually.

[CoachGT]

I'm really hoping that things get squared away in the next few days and that the Carolina Challenge Cup will be a true test of the team this year. Last year the boys appeared disinterested at times, and with a few internationals happening at the same time, some players weren't around. It looks like we should be closer to the full and final squad, and hopefully they will be hungry in Carolina.

The best news for me from yesterday is that DeRo scored his first (of many)!

If and when Serioux is announced I'll get excited, but it seems to be the same old song repeated again.

[TicTacTabarnack]

3-0 actually.

Even Better ... Just catching up on all things TFC this morning. Still a little rusty still ;)

[Phil]

http://www.3rddegree.net/2009/02/serioux-traded-to-tfc/

This is saying the deal is done, but I won't believe it until its on TFC's site.

[Technorgasm]

What the Hell is going on?!!!!!


Its like Christmas around TFC the last few weeks.

Our prayers are getting answered!!

Siroux an actually possibility? wow.. . . just . . . wow

Now. . How's JDG doin? - lol

wow , optimism flowing like the water through the Humber.

[Oldtimer]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
Decisions that once seemed so difficult to make become painstakingly obvious with the benefit of hindsight, and more than a few people over the years have been known to utter the words, "If I'd known then what I know now."

I wonder if Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber is going to be one of those people on Wednesday night, when the Montreal Impact take on Santos Laguna in the quarter-finals of the CONCACAF Champions League?


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2009/02/impact_set_for_battle_with_san.html

[Nuvinho]

MLS Pre-season: Toronto FC impresses again

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/02/toronto-preseason.html

[rocker]

i totally disagree with De Vos.

how does he know what makes "financial sense"? Has he seen the MLS books? Has he seen how much money Saputo has or doesn't have in the bank? I still don't get how people judge whether $10 million or $30 million or $50 million is the "right" number for entry into MLS. There's just no right fee, since people buy assets all the time that are expensive but which might appreciate in value in 10, 20 years. The seller should not compromise unless he has no buyers. Garber has lots of buyers.
If the MLS Vancouver Whitecaps are worth 100 million in 10 years, Montreal will be kicking themselves.

Then he says "so many others running for the door".. what is he talking about? Atlanta didn't quit because of money. Arthur Blank is filthy rich. Nobody else has willingly dropped out of the race.

Second, I don't think Garber didn't know Montreal had a large fan base. De Vos makes it sound like this is news to Garber. Montreal has had the highest attendance in the USL for years. How does a one-off game in the Champions League suddenly cause Garber to have second thoughts? Vancouver got nearly 50000 in BC Place stadium for a Beckham game. he knows these things.

Then De Vos promotes the old "let's bring more kids out to the games line" ... soccer moms too???

While De Vos thinks teams will negotiate the extrance fee, I think he's completely out to lunch. Garber has no reason to negotiate the fee, because 2 teams will pay it, and in the end he doesn't have to admit anyone into the league if they start asking for a reduced rate. Everyone said Saputo was filthy rich... So either 1) he's not filthy rich and thus not a good prospect as an owner for a league that needs stable owners or 2) he tried to negotiate, as businessman do, and totally misjudged the circumstances.

[Flipityflu]

i agreee with what you are saying Rocker, except for the kids thing, in which i totally agree with DeVo. without kids going to games, how do you expect us to grow? i know people get alergic reactions whenever kids get brought up, but there is nothing wrong with it. i saw my first match when i was 7. thats how you grow support. kids go to matches and love it. then they go to school and tell other kids how great it is....

[tfc]

i totally disagree with De Vos.

how does he know what makes "financial sense"? Has he seen the MLS books? Has he seen how much money Saputo has or doesn't have in the bank?

Then he says "so many others running for the door".. what is he talking about? Atlanta didn't quit because of money. Arthur Blank is filthy rich. Nobody else has dropped out of the race.

Second, I don't think Garber didn't know Montreal had a large fan base. De Vos makes it sound like this is news to Garber. Montreal has had the highest attendance in the USL for years.

Then he promotes the old "let's bring more kids out to the games line" ... soccer moms too???

While De Vos thinks teams will negotiate the extrance fee, I think he's completely wrong. Garber has no reason to negotiate the fee, because 2 teams will pay it, and in the end he doesn't have to admit anyone into the league if they start asking for a reduced rate. Everyone said Saputo was filthy rich... So either 1) he's not filthy rich and thus not a good prospect as an owner for a league that needs stable owners or 2) he tried to negotiate, as businessman do, and Garber didn't take kindly to it.

yea, but saputo is also a smart businessman, and nobody is going to join the league for $40mm if there isnt a reasonable chance of recouping it.

With a shit economy, profits in sports teams will drop - a lot. Regardless of how much money you have, if there is little chance of making a profit, why would you make it worse adding another 40mm on top?

From Garber's view - all things equal, one of his best options for expansion would have been Montreal. There are other cities in the US that would make a lot of sense as well. By adopting this $40mm fee, just because he will get someone to pay it, downplays the importance of 'the best city for soccer' and instead focuses purely on the fee. Which is just stupid, look at the NHL for that.

[rocker]

i agreee with what you are saying Rocker, except for the kids thing, in which i totally agree with DeVo. without kids going to games, how do you expect us to grow? i know people get alergic reactions whenever kids get brought up, but there is nothing wrong with it. i saw my first match when i was 7. thats how you grow support. kids go to matches and love it. then they go to school and tell other kids how great it is....

I'm not saying kids being there is a bad thing. But that should be totally secondary. MLS has focused too much on soccer moms and families, when TFC has shown the target market should be young adult males. The young adult males bring a different atmosphere than do thousands of kids, many of whom often would rather play with thundersticks than watch the game. As those kids get older, to the point that they can buy tickets, they will come to TFC because they join that adult crowd. They are not surrounded by kiddies.

I was a big Blue Jays fan as a boy. I played baseball too. I didn't become a soccer fan til I was about 25 (now I'm 33). I can't stand going to baseball games anymore, and I haven't watched a Jays game on TV in years. It just doesn't do anything for me anymore. As a kid, it was "cool" but now as an adult I prefer different things :)

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Kids going to games is a great idea, you just dont make it the main target group

[rocker]

yea, but saputo is also a smart businessman, and nobody is going to join the league for $40mm if there isnt a reasonable chance of recouping it.

With a shit economy, profits in sports teams will drop - a lot. Regardless of how much money you have, if there is little chance of making a profit, why would you make it worse adding another 40mm on top?.

how fast would you want to recoup the 40 million though?
Of course Saputo isn't going to recoup the money in 1 season or even 5 seasons. But that's what investments are all about. I'm sure in 10-15 years that 40 million will be recouped and the value of the franchise will be more than 40 million.

Saputo didn't get into soccer to make a profit, did he? He started the Impact to grow the game. Now he's looking to make profits right away? He grew the game in Montreal, yes, but the rest of his league needs a lot of work. He seems uninterested in the USL itself, just Quebec soccer.

One thing I didn't like about Saputo's comments was he made a point that "well, if we join MLS ticket prices will have to go up, and families can't come to the games anymore."

But he wouldn't have to increase prices THAT much if he had a better stadium. If he increased the revenue generating capacity of the stadium, he could keep ticket prices reasonable. His ticket prices are currently equal to or higher than many American MLS teams' ticket prices.

[Flipityflu]

I'm not saying kids being there is a bad thing. But that should be totally secondary. MLS has focused too much on soccer moms and families, when TFC has shown the target market should be young adult males. The young adult males bring a different atmosphere than do thousands of kids, many of whom often would rather play with thundersticks than watch the game. As those kids get older, to the point that they can buy tickets, they will come to TFC because they join that adult crowd. They are not surrounded by kiddies.

I was a big Blue Jays fan as a boy. I played baseball too. I didn't become a soccer fan til I was about 25 (now I'm 33). I can't stand going to baseball games anymore, and I haven't watched a Jays game on TV in years. It just doesn't do anything for me anymore. As a kid, it was "cool" but now as an adult I prefer different things :)


its funny actually because there are certain sections were i'd like to see more kids for the simple reason that they are actually more liable to sing than the adult counterparts. put them in the 'border' sections between those who do sing and those who don't. i'd be interested to see the result.

i agree that MLS would achieve more by going for the young adult demograhic in the soft markets though. hard market to crack in the US. i do think that the successful TFC model has opened the leagues eyes...at least i hope so.

[tfc]

how fast would you want to recoup the 40 million though?
Of course Saputo isn't going to recoup the money in 1 season or even 5 seasons. But that's what investments are all about. I'm sure in 10-15 years that 40 million will be recouped and the value of the franchise will be more than 40 million.

Saputo didn't get into soccer to make a profit, did he? He started the Impact to grow the game. Now he's looking to make profits right away? He grew the game in Montreal, yes, but the rest of his league needs a lot of work. He seems uninterested in the USL itself, just Quebec soccer.

One thing I didn't like about Saputo's comments was he made a point that "well, if we join MLS ticket prices will have to go up, and families can't come to the games anymore."

But he wouldn't have to increase prices THAT much if he had a better stadium. If he increased the revenue generating capacity of the stadium, he could keep ticket prices reasonable. His ticket prices are currently equal to or higher than many American MLS teams' ticket prices.

Of course he came in to soccer to make a profit, nobody starts a business without the prospect of making money doing it. There is a massive difference between making an insane amount of money and just getting by, however. What is fairly obvious from seeing the earnings of MLS teams over the past year though, is that very few make money, and most lose money. Even TFC's $2mm a year is pretty pathetic.

A $40mm expansion fee, on top of his stadium expansion and all the other things that come along with joining MLS will end up costing him like 50-100mm in total. That is an insane amount of money, and (this is just a guess) it will cost him around 1mm just to cover the interest costs on the debt he will have to take out to finance it.

Without the $40mm expansion fee, however, covering that debt gets significally cheaper. Thats the real issue here, the viability of an expansion team gets compromised by the fee, which is in place just to get rid of poor owners. If a company is unable to cover their interest, they are facked.

I agree with your sentiment about how he disregards the USL. I am actually quite surprised the guys who run the USL haven't been more vocal about soccer in North America - their entire league is being challenged by the MLS and they aren't doing anything about it at all!

[BFin]

It's a good news day all around.

The SSG is cute, has a smoking body, and is clearly supporting TFC with that red dress.
We are acquiring Serioux any day now.
Vitti looks good.
Oh to be a TFC fan.

[Steve]

Of course he came in to soccer to make a profit, nobody starts a business without the prospect of making money doing it. There is a massive difference between making an insane amount of money and just getting by, however. What is fairly obvious from seeing the earnings of MLS teams over the past year though, is that very few make money, and most lose money. Even TFC's $2mm a year is pretty pathetic.

A $40mm expansion fee, on top of his stadium expansion and all the other things that come along with joining MLS will end up costing him like 50-100mm in total. That is an insane amount of money, and (this is just a guess) it will cost him around 1mm just to cover the interest costs on the debt he will have to take out to finance it.

Without the $40mm expansion fee, however, covering that debt gets significally cheaper. Thats the real issue here, the viability of an expansion team gets compromised by the fee, which is in place just to get rid of poor owners. If a company is unable to cover their interest, they are facked.

I agree with your sentiment about how he disregards the USL. I am actually quite surprised the guys who run the USL haven't been more vocal about soccer in North America - their entire league is being challenged by the MLS and they aren't doing anything about it at all!

Are you kidding me? For a $10M dollar investment, $2M a year is a 20% ROI, which is ridiculously high. Add in the fact that the franchise is now worth what, $35M in just a few years, and you have an investment anyone would make. You can't look at the return in absolute terms, but rather in relative terms, and any way you look at it, MLSE did well.

[Oldtimer]

Of course he came in to soccer to make a profit, nobody starts a business without the prospect of making money doing it.

Status, or a feeling that one is doing something valuable can also be motivations.

The Impact are a not-for-profit organization, with some funding coming from the Quebec government. So I would disagree that they are a "for profit" business.

Saputo is concerned with Quebec soccer. He only seems somewhat interested in Canada as a whole.

De Santis said in an interview that the club's priorities are:

1) To grow the game in Quebec
2) To provide a place to play for Quebec players
3) To provide a place for Canadian players

In that order.

[tfc]

Are you kidding me? For a $10M dollar investment, $2M a year is a 20% ROI, which is ridiculously high. Add in the fact that the franchise is now worth what, $35M in just a few years, and you have an investment anyone would make. You can't look at the return in absolute terms, but rather in relative terms, and any way you look at it, MLSE did well.

True, havent had my morning coffee yet - by the point still stands regarding MTL and Saputo, with a big recession and possible depression, paying a expansion fee that was clearly decided upon when times were good doesn't really make sense. If it isn't economically viable, Saputo isn't going to do it, regardless of how much money he personally has.

[Chewy Unikronik]

Digging the legs on the SSG today... Word.

[BleedRed]

of course they want to grow the game in quebec...but who the hell says that publicly. Toronto FC obviously want to grow the game in Ontario cause thats the province they reside in, but theyre not gonna go and be all GO ONTARIO, its our number 1 priority! The number 1 should be providing for TFC than Canada, cause to be honest, I could care less how Ontario does in the national tournament as long as theres good competition. My point in the end is quebecers only care about quebecers and it pisses me off...

[loconet]

Canadian Championship Dates Set:

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=398

[Steve]

True, havent had my morning coffee yet - by the point still stands regarding MTL and Saputo, with a big recession and possible depression, paying a expansion fee that was clearly decided upon when times were good doesn't really make sense. If it isn't economically viable, Saputo isn't going to do it, regardless of how much money he personally has.

Oh, I completely agree with that. The truth is, people on this board (and on every board) love to speculate about financial realities they have no clue about (sorry, throwing a few numbers into a spreadsheet and calculating revenue doesn't actually help). Personally, I have no idea about the MTL situation. Maybe Saputo thought he could pull in a healthy profit with an investment of $40M but decided to play hardball and try for that extra sliver of margin, maybe he decided $40M wouldn't give him an appropriate ROI and so gave an honest offer to make it worthwhile to him, maybe he never really wanted to move to MLS (too much hassle) and so lowballed them in such a way that he knew they would reject (and if they didn't, he'd be making ridiculous profits). We really have no idea on the reality of the situation.

The one thing that's been mentioned that I'm actually not really comfortable with is the non-profit nature of the impact. If Saputo is really in it to grow soccer, I don't trust him (as backwards as that sounds). People in a business for a cause tend to disregard all judgement but their own, and make terrible mistakes because they think it's "the right thing to do". He might continue to focus on family because HE thinks that's how to grow soccer. People in it for the money, on the other hand, tend to listen to other people who make the money come faster. This, in my mind, in the long run, leads to a more stable business. At least in a money oriented business, I get a vote (as does every paying customer).

[sully]

Canadian Championship Dates Set:

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=398

Can't watch video at work...are the dates posted in text? please and thanks

[ben_vw]

NCC schedule out...

http://www.tfcconnected.com/2009/02/canadian-championship-schedule-released.html

[SilverSamurai]

Status, or a feeling that one is doing something valuable can also be motivations.

The Impact are a not-for-profit organization, with some funding coming from the Quebec government. So I would disagree that they are a "for profit" business.

Saputo is concerned with Quebec soccer. He only seems somewhat interested in Canada as a whole.

De Santis said in an interview that the club's priorities are:

1) To grow the game in Quebec
2) To provide a place to play for Quebec players
3) To provide a place for Canadian players

In that order.
But Saputo did say he would change to a profit organization though if they were in MLS...
" To join MLS, the Impact was ready to shed its current status as a non-profit company."
http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature11240801.aspx
That's nothing new though.

And it's obvious ticket prices would go up. How else would he pay for the expansion fee and stadium? He just doesn't want to alienate the kiddies completely.
And while the Impacts main focus is on growing footy in Quebec, atleast they're not only focused on Quebec. He knows the V's Cup is good to promote the game not only in Quebec.

[Roogsy]

It's a good news day all around.

The SSG is cute, has a smoking body, and is clearly supporting TFC with that red dress.
We are acquiring Serioux any day now.
Vitti looks good.
Oh to be a TFC fan.

*sniff*

Today...today is a beautiful day... :canada:

[SweetOwnGoal]

Just a few tidbits from camp...

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/02/sources-say-24th-minute-might-know-what.html

[BFin]

*sniff*

Today...today is a beautiful day... :canada:

This calls for a preseason :hump: just for Mojo

[Wooster_TFC]

Just a few tidbits from camp...

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/02/sources-say-24th-minute-might-know-what.html

I find it hard to believe that Velez is in line to get waived, unless they actually sign one of the RBs they've been trialing all this time. Even assuming that we get one more CB our defensive depth is light with Velez, let alone without him.

So far:

New Guy (CB)
Serioux (CB/FB)
Brennan (LFB)
Wynne (RFB)
Harmse (CB/FB/DM) - I assume he can play either side of FB
Velez (CB/FB) - I assume he can play either side of FB
Attakora (FB/CB)
Gala (LFB) - doesn't seem rated here, more of a LM

I'd prefer to keep Velez around, as he provides cover and decent bench depth, since Harmse is an option in the middle of the pitch.

[Redcoe15]

Yummy body on the SSG! :yum:

[dantdot]

Rough workout for Toronto FC in Sunrise

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/soccer/story/919367.html